Brian Costello: "There has been heavy buzz here at the NFL league meetings that the Jets love Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield, and he is whom they want with the third pick in next month’s draft"

[flgreen]

37 minutes ago, SMC said:

Is being good at amateur football enough to overcome Mayfield's physical limitations in the pro game?  That's the question for me and I don't know the answer.  For that reason, I and many NFL talent evaluators, have Allen rated over Mayfield. 

Are we talking about 17 YO bloggers here?  

39 minutes ago, SMC said:

 

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

51 minutes ago, SMC said:

Actually, I'm not making it a bigger deal than the league.  The NFL has made it a big deal.  If they didn't, Mayfield would be the consensus No. 1 pick.  He's not.  Why is that? Because of his physical limitations.

It’s not just the height. He has all sorts of tape not being super great at NFL things. Pocket awareness, tight windows, hitting in stride, etc. The college offense is designed to get by with mortals. He’s still a top twelve guy but the flaws are real and when they try selling this is exactly what they wanted to happen at 3 they are ******* lying.

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Baker v Manish will be EPIC

That alone is the reason to draft him. Manish getting punted by Broadway Baker would be awesome.

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

That alone is the reason to draft him. Manish getting punted by Broadway Baker would be awesome.

The funny thing is, MMQB asked is that a way for a qb to live yet media members literally make a living off of reporting what these guys do. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

It’s not just the height. He has all sorts of tape not being super great at NFL things. Pocket awareness, tight windows, hitting in stride, etc. The college offense is designed to get by with mortals. He’s still a top twelve guy but the flaws are real and when they try selling this is exactly what they wanted to happen at 3 they are ******* lying.

If Darnold and Rosen go 1 and 2, who would you take at 3?

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't get the "is this a healthy way to live" stuff. Uber competitive @$$holes who thrive off of perceived slights make the greatest athletes. It's a big part of why Brady and Rodgers have been so good.

Generally speaking, having rabbit ears is a bad thing for a young QB. You have to be a sociopath to be a great quarterback, and sociopaths could care less what anyone thinks of them. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Generally speaking, having rabbit ears is a bad thing for a young QB. You have to be a sociopath to be a great quarterback, and sociopaths could care less what anyone thinks of them. 

I think there's a difference between having thin skin or rabbit ears and being driven by those who count you out. Drive and determination to be great and obsession with being the best is the top thing a QB can have. Tons of great athletes are motivated by perceived slights. 

Nobody who talks about Mayfield says he's thin skinned or lacks confidence. There's a difference IMO.

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think there's a difference between having thin skin or rabbit ears and being driven by those who count you out. Drive and determination to be great and obsession with being the best is the top thing a QB can have. Tons of great athletes are motivated by perceived slights. 

Nobody who talks about Mayfield says he's thin skinned or lacks confidence. There's a difference IMO.

I agree with you, and Mayfield seems to be the type of personality to handle it. I just meant that, generally speaking, caring too much about what some craven click-whoring sports blogger says about you can be a red flag.

[UntouchableCrew]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I agree with you, and Mayfield seems to be the type of personality to handle it. I just meant that, generally speaking, caring too much about what some craven click-whoring sports blogger says about you can be a red flag.

Definitely could be. It just seems everything I read or hear seems to indicate he's built for the New York market rather than a headcase who can't handle it.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

If Darnold and Rosen go 1 and 2, who would you take at 3?

I would take Mayfield. But I would be doing it as the next guy because the guy who traded up to 3 got fired after Darnold and Rosen went 1-2

[Matt39]

Betting the farm on two guys like Mayfield and Rosen is why Maccagnan should have been fired last year for not taking Watson.

 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Betting the farm on two outright douchebags like Mayfield and Rosen is why Maccagnan should have been fired last year for not taking Watsson.

The guy that played 7 games then tore his ACL for the 2nd time?

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

The guy that played 7 games then tore his ACL for the 2nd time?

Fair. But every single sign points to Rosen and Mayfield flaming out. 

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The funny thing is, MMQB asked is that a way for a qb to live yet media members literally make a living off of reporting what these guys do. 

Well no one said they weren't hypocrites.

[Saul Goodman]

54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Fair. But every single sign points to Rosen and Mayfield flaming out. 

You mean Allen and Mayfield, right? Rosen’s only negative is the injury history. 

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

You mean Allen and Mayfield, right? Rosen’s only negative is the injury history. 

I wouldnt consider drafting Allen at 3. Rosen wasn't great in college either. Both him and Mayfield love to hear themselves talk and both just seem like Manziel. Whatever- going out on a limb I guess...but both seem destined to flame out. 

[legler82]

Jets fans are enamored with overachieving short white guys; Chrebet, Woodhead and now Baker.

[Tinstar]

Just now, legler82 said:

Jets fans are enamored with overachieving short white guys; Sherbet, Woodhead and now Baker.

It’s funny that the 3 players you mentioned make up the play making portion of an offensive football team. 

[legler82]

On 3/28/2018 at 8:07 AM, FidelioJet said:

As opposed to what?

USC QB’s that have succeeded so much in the NFL

Or small school QB’s with 56 completion %

Or a QB with a long injury history dating back to HS, including multiple concussions - with a reputation for being uncoachable




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

The more accurate question would be how many 6-5 240 lbs athletic with elite level arm talent from small schools completing 56% of their passes in a pro-style offense has succeeded in the NFL?

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, legler82 said:

The more accurate question would be how many 6-5 240 lbs athletic with elite level arm talent from small schools completing 56% of their passes in a pro-style offense has succeeded in the NFL?

I think the answeer is 0...

I'm an Allen fan - My top pick...

[pointman]

Being a salty poster: not good.

Being a salty ball player: awesome.

[legler82]

On 3/28/2018 at 10:43 AM, Bruce Harper said:

In my opinion, Allen would really be bucking the odds if he turns out to be great (not having been great in college) but it certainly could happen.

And Mayfield would not?  Allen just has his CMP% working against him from a historical perspective.  Mayfield has to buck to trend of:

-QBs under 6'2"

-QBs coming from the Spread

-QBs from the Big 12

-QBs that won the Heisman

[Tinstar]

It probably won’t happen and it should, but sine none of these QBs are not as good at football as Barkley or Chub and everyone is more worried about accuracy over arm strength, the Jets should take either the edge rusher or the running back and follow up in the 3rd round with Luke Falk who’s clean off the field and the most accurate QB coming out in the draft. Kid also somehow managed to win a few games at Washington State and put up some really good stats along the way . .           The key is to add premium position players to a dull roster, and Barkley would bring excitement to the offense or Chubb would give the defense that edge rusher this team hasn’t had since Abraham .

[Greenseed4]

9 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

It probably won’t happen and it should, but sine none of these QBs are not as good at football as Barkley or Chub and everyone is more worried about accuracy over arm strength, the Jets should take either the edge rusher or the running back and follow up in the 3rd round with Luke Falk who’s clean off the field and the most accurate QB coming out in the draft. Kid also somehow managed to win a few games at Washington State and put up some really good stats along the way . .           The key is to add premium position players to a dull roster, and Barkley would bring excitement to the offense or Chubb would give the defense that edge rusher this team hasn’t had since Abraham .

At 6 maybe... not at 3. 

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, legler82 said:

And Mayfield would not?  Allen just has his CMP% working against him from a historical perspective.  Mayfield has to buck to trend of:

-QBs under 6'2"

-QBs coming from the Spread

-QBs from the Big 12

-QBs that won the Heisman

Other than his height size none of thos things have anything to do with his skill-set.  Allen's completion % is a function of his skill-set though

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Actually Mayfield is closer to 6'1 than 6'... If you want to make the "an inch and a half is everything" argument you can. Don't think it's accurate at all to say Rodgers is more mobile than Mayfield, let alone "way more mobile." Mayfield had a better three cone than Rodgers and the best 20 yard shuttle at the combine for his position, let alone the fact that he was notorious for scrambling while keeping his eyes downfield and making plays. Rodgers is a better overall athlete but Mayfield is very mobile.

I'm not sure what Clemens has to do with anything.

Of course size matters. But you know what matters more? Being a good football player. I'm not going to dismiss a very talented player because he's an inch an a half shorter than you'd like. Give me Mayfield over Allen any day of the week.

Baker Mayfield was listed at 6’1″ and 220 pounds during his time at Oklahoma. He was 6’0 3/8″ at the Senior Bowl, then miraculously grew to 6’0 5/8″ by the time the NFL combine rolled around.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/03/29/wait-how-tall-is-baker-mayfield-how-tall-is-russell-wilson/

[legler82]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Other than his height size none of thos things have anything to do with his skill-set.  Allen's completion % is a function of his skill-set though

I argue that CMP% is more of a team stat measuring the efficiency of your overall passing game than it is a of any one skill set like accuracy.  Accuracy is only one factor of many that impacts CMP%.  Other factors include but are not limited to: WRs ability to catch, WRs ability to separate, WRs route running, play calling, protection...etc....etc.  You can scheme a QB who is not naturally accurate into a 60+ CMP%.  Michael Vick was a career 53% guy his first 6 years in ATL but crossed that 60% threshold in PHL.  He didn't become more accurate while in prison.  He just went to an offensive system under Reid that provided him more layups which improved his CMP%.  His accuracy remained the same.

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I argue that CMP% is more of a team stat measuring the efficiency of your overall passing game than it is a of any one skill set like accuracy.  Accuracy is only one factor of many that impacts CMP%.  Other factors include but are not limited to: WRs ability to catch, WRs ability to separate, WRs route running, play calling, protection...etc....etc.  You can scheme a QB who is not naturally accurate into a 60+ CMP%.  Michael Vick was a career 53% guy his first 6 years in ATL but crossed that 60% threshold in PHL.  He didn't become more accurate while in prison.  He just went to an offensive system under Reid that provided him more layups which improved his CMP%.  His accuracy remained the same.

Don't get me wrong - I want Allen - I think he's going to be a great NFL QB, but his completion % is worrisome.

But....I was mainly just disputing the points that you made about Mayfield - The fact that he played for a good team, led a profieiecnt offense and won an award an for the best college football player shouldn't be used as reason to say he won't be a good NFL QB.

[legler82]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Don't get me wrong - I want Allen - I think he's going to be a great NFL QB, but his completion % is worrisome.

But....I was mainly just disputing the points that you made about Mayfield - The fact that he played for a good team, led a profieiecnt offense and won an award an for the best college football player shouldn't be used as reason to say he won't be a good NFL QB.

I never said he was not going to be good.  I was just pointing out that if he succeeds, he would be bucking SEVERAL trends while Allen would be bucking just ONE, guys with sub-60CMP%.

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Betting the farm on two guys like Mayfield and Rosen is why Maccagnan should have been fired last year for not taking Watson.

 

You mean Mahomes; right ?

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

two guys like Mayfield and Rosen

I mean it's better than Warfish's thing but it's still a thing.

[Jetscreen]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I agree with you, and Mayfield seems to be the type of personality to handle it. I just meant that, generally speaking, caring too much about what some craven click-whoring sports blogger says about you can be a red flag.

It would only matter to Mayfield if a guy that high up in the press or football had sharp criticism for him? You are both misunderstanding he's BOTH, as a lot of people, are part Rabbit ears and part sociopath. Perhaps he can use those normally bad qualities to fuel his performance on the field? Lav Coles did a nice job feeding off perceived slights when he was drafted because of a theft ring at Florida St. that he was somehow involved and/or blamed for. Doesn't really matter now. What's important is that he used that slight to fuel him in his NFL career.

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, Jetscreen said:

It would only matter to Mayfield if a guy that high up in the press or football had sharp criticism for him? You are both misunderstanding he's BOTH, as a lot of people, are part Rabbit ears and part sociopath. Perhaps he can use those normally bad qualities to fuel his performance on the field? Lav Coles did a nice job feeding off perceived slights when he was drafted because of a theft ring at Florida St. that he was somehow involved and/or blamed for. Doesn't really matter now. What's important is that he used that slight to fuel him in his NFL career.

If I remember correctly it was the Dillard's incident, his issue was he was involved w/ Peter Warrick but they kicked Coles off the team and allowed Warrick to stay b/c Warrick was the better player.  In the NFL Coles became the much better player but Coles was an absolute jerk to the media here earlier in his career.  I think he got better w/ them later I his career.

[Matt39]

8 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I mean it's better than Warfish's thing but it's still a thing.

Oh really

[T0mShane]

Hello, friends. For those of you strenuously arguing that 6’1” is acceptable but 6’0 5/8” is not, here’s a little rustic blue-collarin’ man-info for you and your pink Nancy-boy hands. One hyphen measures roughly an eighth of an inch. The difference between 6’0 5/8” and 6’1” is 3/8ths of an inch, or three hyphens. So, you’re hyperventilating over this: —-