Brian Costello: "There has been heavy buzz here at the NFL league meetings that the Jets love Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield, and he is whom they want with the third pick in next month’s draft"

[kelly]

20 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Rosen or Mayfield.  Can't go wrong with either.

both r..

[Bruce Harper]

13 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Pretty much 

I’m still not sold on Mayfield going in the Top 10 when all is said and done, but I wouldn’t have minded him at #6 assuming Darnold, Rosen and Allen were all gone.

But trading away 3 2nd round picks to move up for an undersized QB with maturity issues?

I’m not buying it.

Assuming Darnold goes #1, I’d say the odds are at least 80% that the Jets are walking away with either Rosen or Allen.

Not a chance that Mayfield will be there at 6.  Allen will be the biggest bust of this draft so I sure hope it doesn't go that way.

[Untouchable]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Not a chance that Mayfield will be there at 6.  Allen will be the biggest bust of this draft so I sure hope it doesn't go that way.

We’ll see

Because it sure as sh*t would be the first time that a sub-6’2 QB who doesn’t possess 4.3 speed and a rocket attached to his left shoulder (Vick) went in the Top 5.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

We’ll see

Because it sure as sh*t would be the first time that a sub-6’2 QB who doesn’t possess 4.3 speed and a rocket attached to his left shoulder (Vick) went in the Top 5.

i like mayfield, but the jets didn't trade up for him.  i also think mccagnan knew he had to make the trade before allen's pro day b/c the price of getting to 3 would have gone up after allen showed off.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

Bowles on Rosen: “Like all of them coming out, we know he can throw the football,” Bowles said at the NFL Annual Meeting. “We know that he can throw the football and he’s a good prospect. So that’s about as far as I can tell you.”

Breaking: Josh Rosen can throw the football. DRAFT THIS BEAST.

That's all I want Bowles to be saying about QBs. "We know he can throw the ball!" lol

[slimjasi]

Eh, I don't know. Smells fishy to me. I have a hard time believing that the Jets favor Mayfield over both Rosen and Allen.

I will say that they could legitimately like all three guys. I could see that. 

Who knows. 

[dbatesman]

27 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

We’ll see

Because it sure as sh*t would be the first time that a sub-6’2 QB who doesn’t possess 4.3 speed and a rocket attached to his left shoulder (Vick) went in the Top 5.

what about guys who completed 56% of their passes for less than 7 yards per attempt

[pointman]

14 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I don't see why the Jets need to be cute or engage in any misdirection. They pick third. They are fine with 3 QBs. Who cares if anyone knows who the 3 are? There are 3 QBs. The Jets pick 3d. Its all good. Might as well announce to the world that you like the 3d guy in your list -- Mayfield. It literally effects nothing.

And if anyone believes the Jets have Mayfield higher than Darnold and Rosen, I've got a bridge for sale.

Because there are 2 picks before us. It all matters. This is their livelihood. Every inch matters. 

[Untouchable]

10 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

What about guys who completed 56% of their passes for less than 7 yards per attempt

That went Top 5? Palmer off the top of my head. #1 overall. Guys like Montana, Favre, etc didn’t go Top 5 or even in the 1st round, but they overcame the dreaded “sub 60%” label.

Now, you show me this plethora of 5’11-6’1 QB’s who weren’t great athletes, but still managed sustained success in the NFL over a long period of time (to hell with where they were drafted)...

Drew Brees and who else over the last 50+ years?

[Adoni Beast]

What I think is important is the whole “alpha dog” culture that Bowles and Mac are trying to create here; a culture that has players who truly love and are all about football.

That seems to favor Darnold (who isn’t getting past 2), Mayfield, and Allen. Rosen being the one whose passion for the game is questioned.

Do i think that would be enough to pass on Rosen? Hell no. I’m just hoping cause Rosen isn’t as the offensive version of Jamal Adams, we wouldn’t be dumb enough to pss on him. 

But Mayfield especially, his personality and mindset are right up the Jets alley with the kind of team they want.

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

That went Top 5? Palmer off the top of my head. #1 overall. Guys like Montana, Favre, etc didn’t go Top 5 or even in the 1st round, but they overcame the dreaded “sub 60%” label.

Now, you show me this plethora of 5’11-6’1 QB’s who weren’t great athletes, but still managed sustained success in the NFL over a long period of time (to hell with where they were drafted)...

Drew Brees and who else over the last 50+ years?

all things being equal, the odds of a qb succeeding in the nfl who had a 56% completion rate in college who is 6'5" is better than a qb shorter than 6'1" who completed more than 60% in college.  plus in college there is so much of a disparity in terms of the talent on your own team vs. the talent you're playing against it's difficult to compare stats across teams/conferences/schemes.  

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

What I really like about Mayfield’s game is how quickly he processes whats happening. He makes quick decisions (a lot of times improvised so I’m not talking about 3 yard slants) and accurate throws.

Also, his deep ball accuracy is really in a league of its own.

Potential issues I have are: 

How much was his play a product of his OL? Can he produce without having an OL that dominates each game?

Can he see and scan the MIDDLE of the field at his height taking snaps from under center (something tyrod taylor has had a problem with). 

Reports are saying his football IQ and classroom work is blowing away teams. To me thats the final straw basically, and something none of us will see or know, how well he does in class. 

You need a certain minimum amount of physical tools, but the ability to make quick decisions and get the ball our fast may be the most important characteristic for a QB to have in the modern NFL.  It is, among other things, why Tom Brady has been such a huge success.  And it looks to me that  Mayfield is very strong in that department as well.

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

That went Top 5? Palmer off the top of my head. #1 overall. Guys like Montana, Favre, etc didn’t go Top 5 or even in the 1st round, but they overcame the dreaded “sub 60%” label.

Now, you show me this plethora of 5’11-6’1 QB’s who weren’t great athletes, but still managed sustained success in the NFL over a long period of time (to hell with where they were drafted)...

Drew Brees and who else over the last 50+ years?

Palmer was below 60% for his college career, but beyond that he and Allen may as well be playing different sports. The other two guys were drafted when the Soviet Union was still in existence, though it's nice to know we can just ditch the top-5 limiter whenever it's convenient.

[jack48]

13 minutes ago, pointman said:

Because there are 2 picks before us. It all matters. This is their livelihood. Every inch matters. 

Maybe they feared Denver would take Mayfield?  Or maybe they have one guy in mind  of the "top three" and if he is not there they will assure themselves of at least Mayfield?

[prime21]

Maybe they are in love with Mayfield's passion and want him to be the Adams of the offense.  Imagine that.

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

all things being equal, the odds of a qb succeeding in the nfl who had a 56% completion rate in college who is 6'5" is better than a qb shorter than 6'1" who completed more than 60% in college.  plus in college there is so much of a disparity in terms of the talent on your own team vs. the talent you're playing against it's difficult to compare stats across teams/conferences/schemes.  

What about quarterbacks that never had a completion percentage over 60% in any season and were taller than 6’2” since 2000?

[Untouchable]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Palmer was below 60% for his college career, but beyond that he and Allen may as well be playing different sports. The other two guys were drafted when the Soviet Union was still in existence, though it's nice to know we can just ditch the top-5 limiter whenever it's convenient.

Well what the hell am I supposed to do?

There’s never been a 6’1 or shorter QB in the history of the modern era NFL who wasn’t a complete f*cking freak like Michael Vick that went Top 5. And Mayfield doesn’t even have Wilson’s athleticism and escapability, much less Vick’s. 

Every sub-6’2 QB who has EVER had success in the NFL was a supreme athlete outside of Drew Brees. He’s the only 6’1 or shorter guy out of the entire lot that has produced at an elite level for 10+ years as a classic, drop back pocket QB.

Guys like Tarkenton, Jurgensen, Vick, Wilson...they all were/are elite athletes who needed to get outside the pocket to do their damage. 

[dbatesman]

11 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Well what the hell am I supposed to do?

You brought it up.

[Untouchable]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

You brought it up.

Yeah, I stated a fact.

I’ve yet to see you present anything of substance to try to counter it.

Where are all of these super successful sub-6’2 pocket QB’s outside of Brees? Not just now, but in NFL history?

Educate me

 

[dbatesman]

Just now, Untouchable said:

Yeah, I stated a fact.

I’ve yet to see you present anything of substance to counter said fact.

Where are all of these super successful sub-6’2 pocket QB’s outside of Brees? Not just now, but in NFL history?

Educate me

 

I'm not arguing in favor of sub-6'2" QBs. I just find it funny that you're willing to go hard in the paint for height as a correlative factor while handwaving away the importance of accuracy.

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

What I really like about Mayfield’s game is how quickly he processes whats happening. He makes quick decisions (a lot of times improvised so I’m not talking about 3 yard slants) and accurate throws.

Also, his deep ball accuracy is really in a league of its own.

Potential issues I have are: 

How much was his play a product of his OL? Can he produce without having an OL that dominates each game?

Can he see and scan the MIDDLE of the field at his height taking snaps from under center (something tyrod taylor has had a problem with). 

Reports are saying his football IQ and classroom work is blowing away teams. To me thats the final straw basically, and something none of us will see or know, how well he does in class. 

For what it's worth PFF said Mayfield had the highest QB rating of the 4 QB's when under pressure.  That should equate to he would also have a high QB rating if his OL wasn't as good as it is.

With that said , no QB is going to have as good QB rating if his OL sucks

[Untouchable]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I'm not arguing in favor of sub-6'2" QBs. I just find it funny that you're willing to go hard in the paint for height as a correlative factor while handwaving away the importance of accuracy.

When did I ever say that accuracy isn’t important? I’ve repeatedly acknowledged that it’s the biggest knock on Allen, hands down. He absolutely needs to continue working on it.

All I’ve been saying is that I’d gamble on Allen’s batsh*t upside over 6’0 Baker Mayfield’s “moxy” and the maturity concerns that come along with it.

I don’t see why that’s considered sheer lunacy to so many. I’d still take Darnold and Rosen over either of them.

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

I’d gamble on Allen’s batsh*t upside over 6’0 Baker Mayfield’s “moxy” 

[RutgersJetFan]

9 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

When did I ever say that accuracy isn’t important? I’ve repeatedly acknowledged that it’s the biggest knock on Allen, hands down. He absolutely needs to continue working on it.

All I’ve been saying is that I’d gamble on Allen’s batsh*t upside over 6’0 Baker Mayfield’s “moxy” and the maturity concerns that come along with it.

I don’t see why that’s considered sheer lunacy to so many. I’d still take Darnold and Rosen over either of them.

Probably because working on accuracy isn't a thing.

[JustInFudge]

Reading this last page...there really are 3 Qb's that looking overcome some seriously tough odds...Allen, Mayfield and Jackson.

Watch Mason Rudolph be the best of the bunch.

[JetBlue]

15 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I don't see why the Jets need to be cute or engage in any misdirection. They pick third. They are fine with 3 QBs. Who cares if anyone knows who the 3 are? There are 3 QBs. The Jets pick 3d. Its all good. Might as well announce to the world that you like the 3d guy in your list -- Mayfield. It literally effects nothing.

And if anyone believes the Jets have Mayfield higher than Darnold and Rosen, I've got a bridge for sale.

Agreed. This Mayfield hype needs to stop.  If Rosen, Darnold or Allen is available, there is no way I see them picking Mayfield over any of them. 

[MDL_JET]

26 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Yeah, I stated a fact.

I’ve yet to see you present anything of substance to try to counter it.

Where are all of these super successful sub-6’2 pocket QB’s outside of Brees? Not just now, but in NFL history?

Educate me

Has there been anything showing that Mayfield being 6' has hindered his success? Ton of batted balls? Something? I just don't understand how being short now all of a sudden makes him a big risk, when he's had success all this time and now considered a top 10 pick. 

[Untouchable]

9 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Probably because working on accuracy isn't a thing.

Yeah, it is.

Footwork, touch and ball placement have a helluva lot to do with accuracy. And everyone out there from Mike Mayock to Daniel Jermemiah to Mel Kiper etc will tell you that Allen has improved tremendously in those areas. It showed at the combine. It showed at the senior bowl. It showed at his pro-day.

Now, whether he can continue to harness those things and apply them to the field at the next level is anyone’s guess.

But don’t sit here telling me that Allen’s accuracy issues are so detrimental while virtually ignoring every flaw pertaining to Mayfield.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Yeah, it is.

Footwork, touch and ball placement have a helluva lot to do with accuracy. And everyone out there from Mike Mayock to Daniel Jermemiah to Mel Kiper etc will tell you that Allen has improved tremendously in those areas. It showed at the combine. It showed at the senior bowl. It showed at his pro-day.

Now, whether he can continue to harness those things and apply them to the field at the next level is anyone’s guess.

But don’t sit here telling me that Allen’s accuracy issues are so detrimental while virtually ignoring every flaw pertaining to Mayfield.

Hello, my name is Untouchable and I like to type words.

[56mehl56]

56 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

You need a certain minimum amount of physical tools, but the ability to make quick decisions and get the ball our fast may be the most important characteristic for a QB to have in the modern NFL.  It is, among other things, why Tom Brady has been such a huge success.  And it looks to me that  Mayfield is very strong in that department as well.

I like Mayfield, but getting the ball out quick in a spread offense in the BIG 12 is a completely different animal than the NFL.

[JetBlue]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

Has there been anything showing that Mayfield being 6' has hindered his success? Ton of batted balls? Something? I just don't understand how being short now all of a sudden makes him a big risk, when he's had success all this time and now considered a top 10 pick. 

Success in college is not the same as success in the NFL.  Of all the undersized QBs drafted over the last 10 years, only Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have been successful.  NFL players are bigger, faster, more athletic and stronger than college players therefore it is much harder for quarterbacks of his stature to succeed.  Not saying it is impossible but I prefer the quarterback that is of prototypical size which the other 3 quarterbacks all have. 

[Untouchable]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

Hello, my name is Untouchable and I like to type words.

Dispute anything I just said

You just love that moxy, don’t ya bud?

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Success in college is not the same as success in the NFL.  Of all the undersized QBs drafted over the last 10 years, only Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have been successful.  NFL players are bigger, faster, more athletic and stronger than college players therefore it is much harder for quarterbacks of his stature to succeed.  Not saying it is impossible but I prefer the quarterback that is of prototypical size which the other 3 quarterbacks all have. 

it's so rare to see qbs in the nfl shorter than 6'1", let alone good qbs that height.  and yet mayfield could still crack the top 5, good for him.  but it won't be on the jets, they didn't trade up for him.  

[56mehl56]

15 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Probably because working on accuracy isn't a thing.

Accuracy as a number by itself means jacksh*t unless you factor in all of the surrounding circumstances.

These will sound like excuses but :

1) quality of the teams Oline

2) route running by a teams Wr's

3) weather - how many games did Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen play in environments like Allen played in for most of his games.

4) situational splits , how many throws were made when the team was trailing by 10 or more points

I know the 60% number is thrown around here like gospel by many , but to me that number doesn't paint the whole picture.

Are there concerns about Allen's accuracy - sure, but fix some of the issues above and how much does that % go up ??

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Dispute anything I just said

You just love that moxy, don’t ya bud?

What's to dispute? If you have already inserted accuracy into the "He just need time to work on X" narrative, you have strayed way, way too far down the rabbit hole.