According to friend of CLE GM- Browns taking Allen

[chrisfaceoff]

From Rotoworld:

 

MMQB's Peter King was told by a "friend of Cleveland GM John Dorsey" the Browns will select Wyoming QB Josh Allen with the No. 1 overall pick.

 

So now does NY take Darnold or Barkley?

[Warfish]

If Cleveland takes Allen, the Giants will then take Darnold, and the Jets will choose between Rosen and Mayfield, likely taking Rosen.

IMO.

[RESNewYork]

 

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

If Cleveland takes Allen, the Giants will then take Darnold, and the Jets will choose between Rosen and Mayfield, likely taking Rosen.

IMO.

This is my personal worst case scenario. Allen Darnold 1 2

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

PLEASE NO MORE! I can't take the constant unfounded speculation.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If Cleveland takes Allen, the Giants will then take Darnold, and the Jets will choose between Rosen and Mayfield, likely taking Rosen.

IMO.

maybe but at this point i'm not even penciling it in.  for all we know the jets have mayfield as their 2nd qb, maybe ahead of darnold or rosen if not both.  i have to assume they had a pecking order before they traded up though, you can't make that trade unless you know who your 3rd option is.  i'm starting to think though, that allen is 4th, that they don't want to take on a big project where the guy may or may not get on the field this season.  so unless someone can convince me otherwise, i think it's darnold/rosen/mayfield in some order.

[bla bla bla]

Yea I think if Allen goes #1 then Darnold will go #2. I'm fascinated about who we take, Mayfield feels like the type of leader we want but Rosen is the typical size that Mac likes in his QBs.

[chrisfaceoff]

they just updated the second part of the info:

 

The Browns have been strongly linked with USC's Sam Darnold at No. 1, but it appears as if that is not a done deal. The "friend" also expects Cleveland to stay at No. 4 overall and select Penn State RB Saquon Barkley, assuming he is not taken by the Giants at No. 2. Of course, making any declarations about draft intentions at the beginning of April is something of a fool's errand. With at least a couple quarterback-needy teams who could move up, the top of the draft could look dramatically different in a couple weeks.

[bla bla bla]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

maybe but at this point i'm not even penciling it in.  for all we know the jets have mayfield as their 2nd qb, maybe ahead of darnold or rosen if not both.  i have to assume they had a pecking order before they traded up though, you can't make that trade unless you know who your 3rd option is.  i'm starting to think though, that allen is 4th, that they don't want to take on a big project where the guy may or may not get on the field this season.  so unless someone can convince me otherwise, i think it's darnold/rosen/mayfield in some order.

I get this gut feeling that Baker is destined for the Jets. The NFL will be licking their chops with the massive ratings boost and Woody/Chris will love the attention. I just can't get a read on how I think we feel about Rosen.

[ZachEY]

Imagine you are the GM with the #1 overall pick.  Are you telling your friends your plans?  Let alone friends you don't know for sure won't be talking to Peter King.  Come on with this...

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

maybe but at this point i'm not even penciling it in.  for all we know the jets have mayfield as their 2nd qb, maybe ahead of darnold or rosen if not both.  i have to assume they had a pecking order before they traded up though, you can't make that trade unless you know who your 3rd option is.  i'm starting to think though, that allen is 4th, that they don't want to take on a big project where the guy may or may not get on the field this season.  so unless someone can convince me otherwise, i think it's darnold/rosen/mayfield in some order.

You could be right.

I just don't see it that way.  I don't think they want a "QB who can play now" and are fine playing McCown (or Teddy if he shines) and let the rookie be Hackshirted a year or two.

For them (coach and GM) the best time-buying outcome is McCown/Teddy play just well enough to keep them employed in 2018, then they can hang their hat on playing the kid in 2019 (i.e. please don't fire us).

But I admit, my view IS rather cynical at this point.

I don't see this GM/Coach drafting Mayfield.  Allen?  Yes.  Darnold?  Yes.  Rosen, Yes.  Not Mayfield tho.  Not their style.

[FTL Jet Fan]

The draft can't come soon enough this is getting painful.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I think people convincing themselves that the draft is anything but Darnold And Rosen 1 and 2 are just setting themselves up for disappointment. 

The only hope is the Browns keep Brownsing and do this but i don't buy it. 

[Obrien2Toon]

Dorsey just hasn’t been informed about the 56% yet

[SMC]

12 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Imagine you are the GM with the #1 overall pick.  Are you telling your friends your plans?  Let alone friends you don't know for sure won't be talking to Peter King.  Come on with this...

Having the 1st pick removes the need for secrecy. It doesnt matter if anyone knows what they can do. They can also start contract negotiations if I'm not mistaken.

[flgreen]

Suspect this is for some reason an intentional leak.  How good a friend could this be that leaks a GM's selection in the first round

[David Harris]

I’m pretty stress free bout all this...MAC made a killer move by getting up to 3.

we’re sitting pretty no matter what happens 

whatwvers going to happen will happen at 1 and 2 and we’ll have a franchise type guy at 3 

[ScarletKnight89]

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If Cleveland takes Allen, the Giants will then take Darnold, and the Jets will choose between Rosen and Mayfield, likely taking Rosen.

IMO.

Agreed. This is the most likely scenario. 

[Skeptable]

When Dorsey and Gettleman had coffee a week or two ago I think it was settled what they were going to do. Cleveland wants Barkley and a QB.

Dorsey just isn't settled on just one QB so he says casually to Gettleman, which QB you want...

This way Cleveland gets their pick of the other 3 QBs with the first pick. 

Giants select Darnold so they won't trade out or draft Barkley and then its guaranteed that Cleveland lands Barkley.

It could be as simple as which one do you want so you don't take Barkley from us.

Jets trading up to 3 solidified that.

[Dcat]

yes, and I'm sure the "friend" Browns' GM went leaking this as soon as his friend told him his plans.  

This reeks of a poorly planted smokescreen.  Not sure why they would do that, though.  

[Kleckineau]

When you ave the #1 pick there is no need for poker face.

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, SMC said:

Having the 1st pick removes the need for secrecy. It doesnt matter if anyone knows what they can do. They can also start contract negotiations if I'm not mistaken.

Sure.  But, I'm questioning the middle ground of secret enough to only tell my buddies and transparent enough that everyone knows who I'm taking because I'm outwardly negotiating with them.  I don't think there's a scenario where I'm telling my kind of friend who will go tell Peter King, but not making it widely available.

[Augustiniak]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You could be right.

I just don't see it that way.  I don't think they want a "QB who can play now" and are fine playing McCown (or Teddy if he shines) and let the rookie be Hackshirted a year or two.

For them (coach and GM) the best time-buying outcome is McCown/Teddy play just well enough to keep them employed in 2018, then they can hang their hat on playing the kid in 2019 (i.e. please don't fire us).

But I admit, my view IS rather cynical at this point.

I don't see this GM/Coach drafting Mayfield.  Allen?  Yes.  Darnold?  Yes.  Rosen, Yes.  Not Mayfield tho.  Not their style.

i don't think they dealt 2 2nd rounders this year (forget about next year's 2nd rounder) to get a guy who is going to sit.  i think mccagnan had his projects, they failed, and now he's go to get his guy on the field sooner than later.  that doesn't mean he's the opening day starter, but i doubt mccagnan returns next year if they draft allen, and all year we hear he isn't ready and then in december he comes in and looks like crap with poor mechanics and a poor completion %.  

two things about his first round picks so far, they came from big programs (USC, LSU, OSU) and they produced in college.  just going on those two qualities alone eliminates allen, and in a big way.  

[SMC]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Sure.  But, I'm questioning the middle ground of secret enough to only tell my buddies and transparent enough that everyone knows who I'm taking because I'm outwardly negotiating with them.  I don't think there's a scenario where I'm telling my kind of friend who will go tell Peter King, but not making it widely available.

True, telling your friend who will squeal like a pig doesn't make sense. But if the GM doesn't care who knows since he controls the situation then this article having a valid source has weight.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i don't think they dealt 2 2nd rounders this year (forget about next year's 2nd rounder) to get a guy who is going to sit.  i think mccagnan had his projects, they failed, and now he's go to get his guy on the field sooner than later.

Then why sign Bridgewater at all under that scenario?  McCown is a more than adequate JAG to placehold.  Hack could have been retained as the emergency #2 at no cost or loss.  I have trouble reconciling "play the rookie now" with "signed both McCown and Bridgewater".

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

that doesn't mean he's the opening day starter

I don't think there is any chance of the rookie being a day 1 starter, no.

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

, but i doubt mccagnan returns next year if they draft allen, and all year we hear he isn't ready and then in december he comes in and looks like crap with poor mechanics and a poor completion %.  

You won't hear "he isn't ready".  You'll hear what we've heard for years "best chance to win".  At best you might get some late season trash time play, nothing sooner.

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

two things about his first round picks so far, they came from big programs (USC, LSU, OSU) and they produced in college.  just going on those two qualities alone eliminates allen, and in a big way.  

Indeed.  But QB is a different beast, and history (especially the short history of Macc we have) may not be so definitive on this pick.  We'll see.

[Barkus]

13 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I’m pretty stress free bout all this...MAC made a killer move by getting up to 3.

we’re sitting pretty no matter what happens 

whatwvers going to happen will happen at 1 and 2 and we’ll have a franchise type guy at 3 

yep, mac made a power move. No matter what happens we are guaranteed one of darnold, rosen, allen. (and it did not cost us a first rounder next year) Throw in mayfield also. Although I prefer one of the big 3. 

[Gangrene]

As you all know of the top five qbs only two come from a prostyle offense. That's got to factor into Allen going high, if he can hold onto his improved mechanics behind a half decent oline he maybe the quickest to adapt behind Rosen.

Here is a short MMQB piece today on an interview with Brent Vigen offensive coordinator for Wentz and then Josh Allen ...

THE JOSH ALLEN OFFENSE

Wyoming offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Brent Vigen has been on a roll. At North Dakota State he helped prepare QB Brock Jensen for a professional career that included a brief stint with the Miami Dolphins and a two-year stint in the CFL. Then there was Carson Wentz. Vigen’s latest star pupil, after a move to Wyoming: Josh Allen.

As I’ve written in the past, NFL teams tend to favor college coaches and schemes just as much as body types, and there’s a lot to like about Vigen’s pro-style system at Wyoming. I asked Jensen to walk us through a play call and explain a little bit about why a Vigen quarterback is so desirable in the eyes of NFL evaluators.

The basics: His quarterbacks use the wristband system. The play comes in via a running back, fullback or wide receiver switching on and off the field. It’s at least two calls, allowing the quarterback to check to another play or various run checks. Vigen’s quarterbacks have about 180 plays on their three-tiered wristband.

“A lot of times, we’ll have double calls, and depending on what we see at the line of scrimmage, what particular key we’re looking at, you check the play at the line or roll with the original play call,” Jensen says. “We had the freedom to change the play to a certain degree, a few run checks to where, if the quarterback saw an overload to one side, we’d run power the opposite way. He gave me freedom toward the end of my career. But at the same time, he gives you some rules within the system to go by.”

Vigen insists his quarterbacks learn the game. That much is obvious from all the variables in each call: Gun right wide (formation), combo zip (motion) 60 (protection), smash pistol S burst (route concept).

“I would be in charge of setting the protection the way I saw it fit the most,” Jensen says. “Usually trouble comes from the bubble, the one technique side, but we had indicators throughout the week, which way we wanted to set the protection.”

Jensen, who still keeps up with Vigen and recognized many of the same concepts at Wyoming, said that Vigen’s offense is absolutely an NFL pipeline system. By forcing them to call their own protections, they’re learning to recognize pressure from all sides of the field. By utilizing half-field concepts similar to those trumpeted by the Rams, 49ers and Washington, he’s forcing quarterbacks to recognize coverages off the bat.

“Take the smash pistol play call I gave you earlier. That’s a half-field concept. If it’s Cover 3, you read the pistol side, or any single high safety look you read the pistol side. Any Cover 2 look, you work the smash side. In a straight man, 10 coverage, you can do either, pick your best matchup and find your dog, who you want to go to.”

Rosen, as one analyst told me earlier in the draft process, will be high on teams’ draft boards because he played and excelled in three different offenses with pro influences. In terms of the mental portion of the game, Allen may not be that far behind.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Warfish said:

Then why sign Bridgewater at all under that scenario?  McCown is a more than adequate JAG to placehold.  Hack could have been retained as the emergency #2 at no cost or loss.  I have trouble reconciling "play the rookie now" with "signed both McCown and Bridgewater".

 

I have a theory on this, it's something that for a while seemed inconsistent with drafting rosen or mayfield, two guys who seem primed to play earlier rather than sit.  It's based on something Bowles said about 'the quarterback room'.  He said Bridgewater improved the qb room for the benefit of the team and the rookie qb.  Well, if McCown is the clear starter heading into training camp, and Bridgewater may not even be healthy, then why sign him?  Well, what if you're drafting Rosen or Mayfield, and you want a younger qb voice to help this guy, along with McCown, who is more of a father figure?  I think Bridgewater is there at least in part with the anticipation of having Rosen or Mayfield as the qb and Bridgewater is the younger mentor, at least in camp.

[bitonti]

40 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

 

This is my personal worst case scenario. Allen Darnold 1 2

If 2 qbs go by 3 I hope they take Barkley over the 3rd QB. 

but if they have to go QB i guess it's mayfield over rosen.

for all his flaws at least Baker Mayfield plays. Rosen is king of the training table. 

[bitonti]

let me also add I've followed the draft for almost 20 years and one statement you can always keep in mind will help predict the top end 

The draft is about upside.

Not who is the best football player right now, or who played the best in January. It's about the player with the most physical upside. 

Kiper had Allen at 1 since the start and the interwebz hazed him for it. Said that Allen's agent was paying Kiper to hype him up etc. 

Kiper isn't that guy. He isn't hot takes dude. He gets told real things by real people and that's what he projects. He's not sitting in the imagination lab wondering how it's all going to go down. He gets on his phone (probably a landline) and works it until he gets something real. 

 

The draft is not what fans want. it's about what crew cut haircut blowhards are going to do just before they get fired. 

 

[T0mShane]

100000% the friend of Dorsey is Mel Kiper. 

[Jack Straw]

The only way the Jets could f*ck this up is by going non-QB, which even they're not dumb enough to do. 

[MDL_JET]

16 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Sure.  But, I'm questioning the middle ground of secret enough to only tell my buddies and transparent enough that everyone knows who I'm taking because I'm outwardly negotiating with them.  I don't think there's a scenario where I'm telling my kind of friend who will go tell Peter King, but not making it widely available.

Rotoworld told it wrong. The article only said the friend “thinks” he’ll go Allen. 

Just a friend guessing. Because nobody knows nothing. 

[paulyjet]

45 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Imagine you are the GM with the #1 overall pick.  Are you telling your friends your plans?  Let alone friends you don't know for sure won't be talking to Peter King.  Come on with this...

Why not. It doesn't matter to them who really knows. Imho

[paulyjet]

5 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

The only way the Jets could f*ck this up is by going non-QB, which even they're not dumb enough to do. 

How long you been a jets fan???

?? lol

[Kleckineau]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

let me also add I've followed the draft for almost 20 years and one statement you can always keep in mind will help predict the top end 

The draft is about upside.

Not who is the best football player right now, or who played the best in January. It's about the player with the most physical upside. 

Kiper had Allen at 1 since the start and the interwebz hazed him for it. Said that Allen's agent was paying Kiper to hype him up etc. 

Kiper isn't that guy. He isn't hot takes dude. He gets told real things by real people and that's what he projects. He's not sitting in the imagination lab wondering how it's all going to go down. He gets on his phone (probably a landline) and works it until he gets something real. 

 

The draft is not what fans want. it's about what crew cut haircut blowhards are going to do just before they get fired. 

 

Im not sure what that last sentence means but yeah def agree on Kiper. 

NFL owes him. NFL is 12 mos a year now due to guys like him. He is to the draft what Steve Sabol was to NFL films.

BTW the Jets have a shot to stop being the Jets by taking Allen a prototypical QB if ever there was one. Grab them dice and rollem'