MMQB Draft Thoughts with Gil Brandt

[Adoni Beast]

31 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

What does not come out in that interview, but which Brandt states on Sirius all the time, is that he thinks the Top 3 are all future Pro Bowl type QBs in the NFL and he does view this draft as the next 1983. The way that King chooses his quotes makes it seem like he has Rosen far ahead but that is not true. He does like Rosen the best. He also thinks Allen can be the best of all the QBs but he needs to be drafted into the right type of situation to develop (ie, not the Jets)

I still maintain the Jets have Baker #1 with Rosen as option #2.

I would also agree that the top 3 are all potential pro bowl FQB’s. Josh Allen’s talent is absolutely insane and worthy of a team taking him high, with patience and a really long term development plan that will have to tailor their playbook to fit to the strengths and avoid the weaknesses of Allen. But his bust level is real and it is much higher than the other 3.

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Gangrene said:

Now Sam Darnold, he’s got great mechanics

what?  With that Tebow wind up? GTFO

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Rosen or Mayfield is all I could ask for. I’m wary of Allen. He’s been hyped into a tier he doesn’t belong in.

this is a good way of wording it.  if he were mayfield's height he'd be considered a day 3 prospect.  

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Gangrene said:

We all undervalued Drew

Huh?  No. 

[Patriot Killa]

13 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

He was a projected top 10 pick for the last year. Well before the combine and Senior Bowl. Sure, the post-season stuff helped his stock, but it's not like he was a no name that came to the draft and went from undrafted prospect to top 5 pick based solely on his combine. 

Allen is a guy that you could see, from his game tape, has elite NFL QB skills. Whether he can translate that to the NFL when he had trouble producing in college (for whatever reasons) is the question. If Allen had put up 61% comp pct, 24tds-8ints (not the best numbers in the class) this past season he would be the consensus #1 pick. 

I never said he was a no name. I said his play doesn’t deserve a 1st round nod and that post-season hype has catapulted him into the first. Link me to this “top 10” pick from last year. I’m astonished to be quite honest that someone is arguing this but okay..i’ll bite. 

Link me.

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

Rosen has not finished a season healthy since 2015. He's a rich man Chadwick.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Having 5 football players in front of you cures that right up. Plus, his arm strength, deep ball, mechanics and clean throwing are all better than Chad comin into the league. 

[flgreen]

9 minutes ago, kelly said:

of course flgree !.. YOU gave the video & photos to me      

Yeah, sorry for walking in on you and "Billy" with a go pro like that, should have knocked. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I never said he was a no name. I said his play doesn’t deserve a 1st round nod and that post-season hype has catapulted him into the first. Link me to this “top 10” pick from last year. I’m astonished to be quite honest that someone is arguing this but okay..i’ll bite. 

Link me.

 

This will be the 2nd time of done this for people who don't seem to follow this stuff year in and year out like I do:

Mock Drafts/Rankings BEFORE 2017 season:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/2018-nfl-mock-draft-the-way-too-early-two-round-projection-042917- #6 overall

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/insider/story/_/id/19294111/todd-mcshay-way-too-early-2018-mock-draft-nfl-draft #2 Overall by Mcshay

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/insider/story/_/id/19351953/mel-kiper-way-too-early-2018-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-every-position Kiper has Allen over Rosen and as the 2nd best Underclassmen QB. Couldn't find his mock, but it had Allen in the top 5. 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707035-2018-nfl-draft-big-board-matt-millers-way-too-early-initial-rankings Matt Miller had Allen as the number 1 Draft prospect

Are you still astonished?

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

This will be the 2nd time of done this for people who don't seem to follow this stuff year in and year out like I do:

Mock Drafts/Rankings BEFORE 2017 season:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/2018-nfl-mock-draft-the-way-too-early-two-round-projection-042917- #6 overall

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/insider/story/_/id/19294111/todd-mcshay-way-too-early-2018-mock-draft-nfl-draft #2 Overall by Mcshay

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/insider/story/_/id/19351953/mel-kiper-way-too-early-2018-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-every-position Kiper has Allen over Rosen and as the 2nd best Underclassmen QB. Couldn't find his mock, but it had Allen in the top 5. 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707035-2018-nfl-draft-big-board-matt-millers-way-too-early-initial-rankings Matt Miller had Allen as the number 1 Draft prospect

Are you still astonished?

Hey, I’m not seeing anything on my end so I asked you to show me. Don’t debate if you don’t want to show proof of your claims. 

Secondly, no I’m not astonished that this doesn’t say anything about being a 1st round top 10 pick in 2017 or 18’. This is exactly what I expected.

I see early second round. I see him graded high in a terrible LT class. I don’t see top 10 1st round pick. If anything the guy played himself out of the 1st round conversation and then barely climbed back in due to a nice combine. 

Overall, he is not a great LT. He gets overpowered at the point of attack way too much for a pass blocking LT. 

But hey, this is a weak class so this is about what I expected to see. He’s not a top 10 1st rounder though. That is the laughable part of it.

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

what?  With that Tebow wind up? GTFO

Exactly my thought reading that piece.

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I never said he was a no name. I said his play doesn’t deserve a 1st round nod and that post-season hype has catapulted him into the first. Link me to this “top 10” pick from last year. I’m astonished to be quite honest that someone is arguing this but okay..i’ll bite. 

Link me.

Having 5 football players in front of you cures that right up. Plus, his arm strength, deep ball, mechanics and clean throwing are all better than Chad comin into the league. 

JoJo has already provided the links, but Allen did not exactly come out of nowhere.  His 2017 was not as good as expected, so you may feel he should have dropped, but I kept reading he was "better than Wentz" going into the season.  It sure didn't come from the postseason.

Do they Jets have these 5 players that are going to protect Rosen?  McCown didn't finish the season.  Fitzpatrick, Geno and Petty were blown up in 2016. Fitzpatrick broke his thumb in 2015.  So, in Maccagnan's 3 years as GM the Jets have had at least 5 QB injuries.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Hey, I’m not seeing anything on my end so I asked you to show me. Don’t debate if you don’t want to show proof of your claims. 

Secondly, no I’m not astonished that this doesn’t say anything about being a 1st round top 10 pick in 2017 or 18’. This is exactly what I expected.

I see early second round. I see him graded high in a terrible LT class. I don’t see top 10 1st round pick. If anything the guy played himself out of the 1st round conversation and then barely climbed back in due to a nice combine. 

Overall, he is not a great LT. He gets overpowered at the point of attack way too much for a pass blocking LT. 

But hey, this is a weak class so this is about what I expected to see. He’s not a top 10 1st rounder though. That is the laughable part of it.

QFT

Josh Allen is a terrible LT prospect.  JoJo Townsell is not talking about Kolton Miller.

[T0mShane]

I personally think Rosen is, and will continue to be, a sack magnet

[JoJoTownsell1]

This is an all-time incoherent response. Even for you. 

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Hey, I’m not seeing anything on my end so I asked you to show me. Don’t debate if you don’t want to show proof of your claims. 

 

You aren't seeing anything on your end? What does that even mean? You just had to google it.

Not to mention, I actually backed up my claims and you seem to be trying to deflect. Nice try. 

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

Secondly, no I’m not astonished that this doesn’t say anything about being a 1st round top 10 pick in 2017 or 18’. This is exactly what I expected.

Huh? Seriously. What are you talking about. I just linked you to mock drafts done in April-ish of 2017 that showed every draft expert say that Allen is a top 10 pick. WELL before his combine and Senior bowl performances. Not sure how that was "exactly what you expected."

 

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I see early second round. I see him graded high in a terrible LT class. I don’t see top 10 1st round pick. If anything the guy played himself out of the 1st round conversation and then barely climbed back in due to a nice combine. 

Overall, he is not a great LT. He gets overpowered at the point of attack way too much for a pass blocking LT. 

But hey, this is a weak class so this is about what I expected to see. He’s not a top 10 1st rounder though. That is the laughable part of it.

Now we are talking about Left tackles in response to my post that didn't mention LTs? You seem a little disoriented today. 

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

This is an all-time incoherent response. Even for you. 

You aren't seeing anything on your end? What does that even mean? You just had to google it.

Not to mention, I actually backed up my claims and you seem to be trying to deflect. Nice try. 

Huh? Seriously. What are you talking about. I just linked you to mock drafts done in April-ish of 2017 that showed every draft expert say that Allen is a top 10 pick. WELL before his combine and Senior bowl performances. Not sure how that was "exactly what you expected."

 

Now we are talking about Left tackles in response to my post that didn't mention LTs? You seem a little disoriented today. 

My conversation was about LT’s and Kolton Miller in particular. I pressumed you were on the same page with me and Bit because we were talking about Miller as well. You intially responded to my post ABOUT Miller lmfao. 

Lol, that clearly explains why I googled Miller top 10 1st round and came up with zilch.  

I could give two sh*ts less about Allen in this particular discussion. I’m the disoriented one...yet you confused the sh*t out of me and yourself by starting a topic about Allen inside of an already on-going discussion about UCLA’s O-line and Kolton Miller.

 

 

.......alright then.

[56mehl56]

36 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I would also agree that the top 3 are all potential pro bowl FQB’s. Josh Allen’s talent is absolutely insane and worthy of a team taking him high, with patience and a really long term development plan that will have to tailor their playbook to fit to the strengths and avoid the weaknesses of Allen. But his bust level is real and it is much higher than the other 3.

I don't get this , he comes from a pro-style offense . Its not like he's a air raid QB who never took snaps from center or never had to go through progressions. He needs help with his footwork which many top rated college QB's do as well.  So many are saying he's a project who has to sit a year , based on speculation because he had a poor completion %.

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

LOL. He is a first round pick because combine numbers and post/college season hype. His film is not good enough to warrant a first round selection and Quessenberry’s is WORSE. 

 

Get serious. Every mock draft I have seen has Miller as a 1st round selection. It's NOT post season hype. You seem to like that phrase. Rosen's line was a hell of a lot better than Allens at Wyoming.

[#27TheDominator]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I personally think Rosen is, and will continue to be, a sack magnet

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Exactly my thought reading that piece.

JoJo has already provided the links, but Allen did not exactly come out of nowhere.  His 2017 was not as good as expected, so you may feel he should have dropped, but I kept reading he was "better than Wentz" going into the season.  It sure didn't come from the postseason.

Do they Jets have these 5 players that are going to protect Rosen?  McCown didn't finish the season.  Fitzpatrick, Geno and Petty were blown up in 2016. Fitzpatrick broke his thumb in 2015.  So, in Maccagnan's 3 years as GM the Jets have had at least 5 QB injuries.

This post season process has been weird. Going into the season there were 4 guaranteed first round QBs, Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, and then there were a few “could play themselves into the first round” types, Falk, Stidham, Rudolph. All those guys disappointed throughout the season. Baker Mayfield played himself into a mid first round pick by seasons end. The original big 4 became a big but not guaranteed 2 (Rosen and Darnold) and Allen and Jackson became boom or bust first round talents not worthy of top 10 picks. 

Since then the postseason process has pushed Allen into a top 5 pick, Mayfield into a top 5 pick, Darnold hype levels are back to what they were before last season, Rosen has dropped, Jackson has dropped, Rudolph is back in first round consideration. Are any of these evaluations any more or less valid than the other? I know the opinions right after the season are the evaluations I value the most but this whole process assumes that professional talent evaluators know anything... they don’t.

[Thai Jet]

48 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I never said he was a no name. I said his play doesn’t deserve a 1st round nod and that post-season hype has catapulted him into the first. Link me to this “top 10” pick from last year. I’m astonished to be quite honest that someone is arguing this but okay..i’ll bite. 

Link me.

Having 5 football players in front of you cures that right up. Plus, his arm strength, deep ball, mechanics and clean throwing are all better than Chad comin into the league. 

Seriously again ? Rosen's " 5 football players in front of him" were a hell of a lot better than Allens at Wyoming. Even with a decent line Rosen gets hurt. That's a fact.

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Get serious. Every mock draft I have seen has Miller as a 1st round selection. It's NOT post season hype. You seem to like that phrase. Rosen's line was a hell of a lot better than Allens at Wyoming.

You don’t think I’m already serious? When did you start seeing Miller as a first round pick. Very curious. If you have seen his game film..you know he’s not worthy of a 1st round pick.

He gets over powered at the point of attack way too often and His footwork can get sloppy at times. That seems to be something you Allen guys don’t mind..sloppy footwork.

My beef isnt with Allen in this particular discussion. I don’t understand why people are whining to me about Allen.

[Patriot Killa]

8 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Seriously again ? Rosen's " 5 football players in front of him" were a hell of a lot better than Allens at Wyoming. Even with a decent line Rosen gets hurt. That's a fact.

See the post above that I already responded to you with...this has gotten tiring so very quickly. 

Allen didn’t have weapons. Allen had a worse O-lineman than Rosen. Allen would of been a top pick with Rosen’s stats. Allen throws 56% but it’s mostly on his WR. Its not Allen’s fault that Gillian Anderson won’t be coming back to the X-Files next season. Allen didn’t do anything to that bully for him to get his bike stolen 15 years ago.

okay. cool bro. I don’t care. We can talk about Allen’s deficiencies another day. I’m not concerned with that particular discussion lol. This was never suppose to be about Allen.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You don’t think I’m already serious? When did you start seeing Miller as a first round pick. Very curious. If you have seen his game film..you know he’s not worthy of a 1st round pick.

He gets over powered at the point of attack way too often and His footwork can get sloppy at times. That seems to be something you Allen guys don’t mind..sloppy footwork.

My beef isnt with Allen in this particular discussion. I don’t understand why people are whining to me about Allen.

When does the season end?  Here is a piece from December with Miller rated 15.  #workoutwarrior

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

When does the season end?  Here is a piece from December with Miller rated 15.  #workoutwarrior

Where is the piece? It’s not showing up on my phone.....

regardless my case stands this is an extremely poor LT class and the fact that he is #15 is pretty hilarious. #DominatorBackAtIt ... #Again

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Where is the piece? It’s not showing up on my phone.....

regardless my case stands this is an extremely poor LT class and the fact that he is #15 is pretty hilarious. #DominatorBackAtIt ... #Again

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-kolton-miller-has-a-well-rounded-franchise-left-tackle-skill-set/

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-kolton-miller-has-a-well-rounded-franchise-left-tackle-skill-set/

CBS sports..? The same site that ranked Mason Rudolph the best QB option and a viable pick at 6?

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

What does not come out in that interview, but which Brandt states on Sirius all the time, is that he thinks the Top 3 are all future Pro Bowl type QBs in the NFL and he does view this draft as the next 1983. The way that King chooses his quotes makes it seem like he has Rosen far ahead but that is not true. He does like Rosen the best. He also thinks Allen can be the best of all the QBs but he needs to be drafted into the right type of situation to develop (ie, not the Jets)

I still maintain the Jets have Baker #1 with Rosen as option #2.

i don't think baker is in his top 3 future pro bowl type QB..

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

CBS sports..? The same site that ranked Mason Rudolph the best QB option and a viable pick at 6?

Did I make any comment on the quality of the rating?  You said nobody had him that high.  This putz did.  FWIW, I would totally consider him at the end of the first.  His description seems very similar to Garrett Bolles who went #20 to the Broncos in 2017. I don't think anybody thinks he will go top 10 (that discussion was regarding Allen). 

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I never said he was a no name. I said his play doesn’t deserve a 1st round nod and that post-season hype has catapulted him into the first. Link me to this “top 10” pick from last year. I’m astonished to be quite honest that someone is arguing this but okay..i’ll bite. 

Link me.

Having 5 football players in front of you cures that right up. Plus, his arm strength, deep ball, mechanics and clean throwing are all better than Chad comin into the league. 

He thinks you meant Allen, when you were talking Miller

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Did I make any comment on the quality of the rating?  You said nobody had him that high.  This putz did.  FWIW, I would totally consider him at the end of the first.  His description seems very similar to Garrett Bolles who went #20 to the Broncos in 2017. I don't think anybody thinks he will go top 10 (that discussion was regarding Allen). 

He wasn’t a consensus 1st round selection is more of what I meant. Yeah, maybe CBS has him this high but tbh he didn’t get this clout until combine time.

thats what I’m saying. Now he is probably, as you said, #20 overall type player in all reality.

personally, I don’t think he deserves a 1st round nod nor does his play on film look that great.

[Thai Jet]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You don’t think I’m already serious? When did you start seeing Miller as a first round pick. Very curious. If you have seen his game film..you know he’s not worthy of a 1st round pick.

He gets over powered at the point of attack way too often and His footwork can get sloppy at times. That seems to be something you Allen guys don’t mind..sloppy footwork.

My beef isnt with Allen in this particular discussion. I don’t understand why people are whining to me about Allen.

Obviously It's because your blaming UCLA's O line play for Rosen's history of getting hurt which is BS.  Bottom line is that UCLA's O line with a 1st round pick in it is/was a hell of a lot better than Wyomings O line. That's a fact. It's OK for you to use the O line as an excuse for Rosen but if anyone uses it as an excuse for Allen it's dismissed in your thought process. By doing this you're being a hypocrite.

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen.

I will be happy no matter who we end up picking, but my happiness level will be tempered slightly if we end up with Allen.  Definitely the biggest risk of the 4 IMO and the Jets can't afford to take a risk here.  Their pick needs to be a year 1 starter, and Allen is the furthest away from that reality IMO. 

Don't get me wrong, I'll be rooting like hell for whoever the pick is!

 

/shrug

I have no idea anymore.  They guy I like is Mayfield, because he gives a sh*t.  He cares.  He has passion.  And a 70% accuracy rate with low INT's.

But he is also IMO one of the riskiest picks I've ever "wanted'.  He could easily bust.  Easily.  

I'm uninspired by Rosen (fragile, lack of focus) and Darnold (turnovers, USC bad pro QB's).  Allen's very low accuracy terrifies me.  Jackson the worst kind of pick for a team like the Jets (needs a ton of development, run first, etc).

More than ever this draft feels like a crapshoot. 

For every strength, a serious material weakness.  For every "this guy is the CLEAR #1 pick" opinion, a countering "this guy is barely a top 15 pick if QB wasn't so overdrafted!" opinion.  

I think Darnold still goes #1, all the Allen at 1 hype is just hype.

I think the Giants take Rosen at #2.  Or trade out, but probably not.

I think that leaves us with a HUGE decision at #3:  Mayfield, whose passion and production are unquestionable but who lacks almost every NFL size metric.....or Allen, the greek god of a human being who lacks almost every production metric you'd want in a college resume and who seems, franklk, kinda dumb and Browning Nagle-like to me.

And even tho I like Mayfield, I cannot with any level of surety say we SHOULD take Mayfield.  I honestly don't know.  I LIKE Mayfield, so that's what I'd root for I suppose.....but I love a huge bazooka arm too, if it can hit teh broad side of a barn once in a while.   

So I guess I just have to be "happy" with whomever we get at QB and pray.  Pray for once in my lifetime as a Jet, WE made the right pick.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Obviously It's because your blaming UCLA's O line play for Rosen's history of getting hurt which is BS.  Bottom line is that UCLA's O line with a 1st round pick in it is/was a hell of a lot better than Wyomings O line. That's a fact. It's OK for you to use the O line as an excuse for Rosen but if anyone uses it as an excuse for Allen it's dismissed in your thought process. By doing this you're being a hypocrite.

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLENS O-LINE!

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLENS O-LINE!

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLENS O-LINE!

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLEN PERIOD.

Wtf is your problem???

[Thai Jet]

26 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

CBS sports..? The same site that ranked Mason Rudolph the best QB option and a viable pick at 6?

In all honesty I thought almost all the CBS sports rankings were bizarre. Others years they were pretty decent but not this year.

[Thai Jet]

6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLENS O-LINE!

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLENS O-LINE!

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLENS O-LINE!

I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLEN PERIOD.

Wtf is your problem???

Not today, no. But in the past you have dismissed it (Wyomings O line) if someone mentioned it as a reason for Allen's low completion %.

[Dupe]

In highlight packages you see WRs incredibly wide open by NFL standards.  I dont see these completion pcts and accuracy stats translating. Its a different game.  Evaluators must take into account what a QB is capable of doing. 

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Dupe said:

In highlight packages you see WRs incredibly wide open by NFL standards.  I dont see these completion pcts and accuracy stats translating. Its a different game.  Evaluators must take into account what a QB is capable of doing. 

There is a thread on here about "success rate."  That is some type of made up stat where they determine if a play is a success.  If a WR is wide open - the QB still has to see him and hit him.  There are plenty of these guys that don't and there was a statistic about how few QBs ever improve their completion percentage in the NFL from college.  A guy who threw 70% isn't likely to keep it up, but a guy that threw 57% is not likely to reach 65% either.