Draft Rumor Round Up; Mayfield Visit

[nycdan]

26 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If somehow Allen fell to 3 - we should run, not walk, the card up.  

He's going to be the best QB in this draft.

FOB (Friends of Baker) after we make that pick.

[Bruce Harper]

On 4/14/2018 at 10:17 AM, FidelioJet said:

Or....

By year 3 we realize we have a Cam Newton skill et and a legit shot to win the superbowl every year for 15 years.  What I see in Allen is potential for greatness -

I don't see that in any of the others - I've been a fan for 40+ years as well but I would still prefer to dare to be great - than take a QB that will keep us competitive and sneak into the wildcard every 3rd or 4th year.

 

Respectfully, I just don't see it.  The guy has been extremely mediocre in a second tier conference.   Tools can be important but performance is a much more reliable indicator.

[Bruce Harper]

38 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If somehow Allen fell to 3 - we should run, not walk, the card up.  

He's going to be the best QB in this draft.

My best guess is that he will be out of the league in four years, unless he is the number 1 pick in which case he might float around a bit longer.

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Look, I’m not attacking you, but if I was McCown, I would LOVE the Jets to draft Allen.  Probably nets him another 2 years, $25M.  Darnold, Rosen, And Myfield would be the permanent starter no later than December.  Allen guarantees McCown has zero threat to his job and he will have serious leverage to resign next offseason.

Just give me one example of a QB with Allen’s tape and stats that has ever done anything in the NFL?  Now imagine the pressure of being a top 3 pick with that type of portfolio?  If we draft Allen, We are betting against a world of evidence.  

Heck, here is a QB that went 2-4 as a starter in Junior College.  If this guy was any where near good enough to raise the level of play around him, how the hell does he lose to Hartnell Junior College with a stat line of 13-35-241 yards?  37% completion.  

Josh Allen would be a fantastic pick in the third round for a team that can stash in for 3 years.  

Not for a team that has had the pile of dog crap at QB that we have had since 1969.  We need a slam dunk with this pick, not a one-handed full court prayer.

Coincidentally, I met Petty at a bar the other day and he thinks that Barkley is a great kid and a great player and that we should draft him.

[Paradis]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:53 PM, FidelioJet said:

People keep saying Rosen is natural passer - what does that even mean?

I see an an injury prone, immobile guy, with an average arm, that takes a lot of sacks.

I’ve watched him and don’t get the fascination.

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Uhm, how about he knows how to play football - does that count? 

He's been injured and he's not a scrambler -- that's correct. Average arm? Hardly -- but who needs a canon? Beyond average, arm strength has zero correlation with winning. The actual stuff that wins games; smart, reading defenses, ball placement, adjustments to coverage -- you know -- quarterback play -- he's kind of good at. Like really good. 

The injury thing is a problem. Prone? no... he was throwing the ball 45-50 times a game. Name me any QB in NFL who throws the ball that often and doesn't get sacked/hurt

Cmon man... 

 

 

 

[IndianaJet]

I hate wishing the days of my life away, but the draft CANNOT get here soon enough.

 

 

[Paradis]

48 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If somehow Allen fell to 3 - we should run, not walk, the card up.  

He's going to be the best QB in this draft.

Holy sh*t.

nvm the reply I wrote to you earlier. I thought you knew football. 

[jetstream23]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:53 PM, FidelioJet said:

People keep saying Rosen is natural passer - what does that even mean?

I see an an injury prone, immobile guy, with an average arm, that takes a lot of sacks.

I’ve watched him and don’t get the fascination.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

My position on Rosen is that out of all 4 top QBs, he'll have the shortest learning curve to the NFL game and can likely be the quickest to get on the field.  Even though I think he's more "polished" than the other guys though, I think his upside is limited.  In other words, because he already plays at a high level in an-NFL style offense and has great footwork he may be closer to the best he'll ever be than the other guys.  That's kind of what you're getting (ignore injuries or off-field stuff) in terms of a football player....a guy who has a high floor because there aren't a whole lot of things to correct in his game.  But that does limit the upside because I'm not sure he can improve dramatically from where he is now.  The other Josh is the complete opposite. I do believe we've seen indications of the worst that Josh Allen can be and he probably has the highest ceiling....I just don't trust that he can get to that ceiling.  Mayfield and Darnold are between the two Josh's in terms of readiness for the Pros IMO.  Neither are as ready as Rosen, but both have higher upside than Rosen in my opinion and both are less risky than Allen.

 

[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, artemusclyde said:

In case your to lazy to read all that, the point of that matter is, if Allen was throwing the same passes as Mayfield was throwing, his completion rating would jump up to 61.9%. Also, for all the he couldn't beat up on MWC teams idiots out there, he was the 3rd most pressured qb in the country while also having a bottom 5-10 rushing attack. To make matters even better, in the one game, where they had comparable coaching and teams (the senior bowl) Allen looked a lot better then Mayfield did. The reason why Allen's completion % is so terrible, is he doesn't get lay up throws like the rest of the guys, 8% fewer passes behind the los compared to other qbs, plays on a crap team, and has the Brett Farve gun slinger mentality where he makes risky throws cause he trusts his arm so much.

Hmmm....this would fine if there wasnt numerous throws on film of Josh Allen missing these easy throws you're saying he didnt get.  There are numerous examples of him air mailing and missing screens by 10-20 feet ala Hack.

https://medium.com/mesh-point-scouting/film-breakdown-josh-allen-2017-4c8985c54df9

[FidelioJet]

24 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Holy sh*t.

nvm the reply I wrote to you earlier. I thought you knew football. 

I honestly find it interesting that the majorty of experts are projecting Allen to be the 1st or 2nd QB taken in the draft - yet on JetNation you're attacked for suggesting he's going to be good.

I get it if people don't like him and I understand their concerns but to say things like "I thought you knew football" for not agreeing with your position is rather comical.

 

 

[peebag]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

I honestly find it interesting that the majorty of experts are projecting Allen to be the 1st or 2nd QB taken in the draft - yet on JetNation you're attacked for suggesting he's going to be good.

I get it if people don't like him and I understand their concerns but to say things like "I thought you knew football" for not agreeing with your position is rather comical.

 

 

There were also numerous experts claiming Ryan Leaf was the next coming of Geebus.....

[RVAJet815]

With all respect to the Allen truthers, Rosen would make me very, very happy. I'm fine with Darnold or Baker. Allen would send me to the Target for a new television. We cannot risk buying a lotto ticket at this point in the rebuild. 

[FidelioJet]

Just now, peebag said:

There were also numerous experts claiming Ryan Leaf was the next coming of Geebus.....

Come on, you could say that about anyone.  QB's bust all the time - it's the nature of things...

As I said everyone can like or dislike him - but to act like he's not a legitimate prospect and that anyone wanting to draft him is an idiot is simply wrong. 

[nycdan]

My dream scenario is we draft Rosen and he's the best of the bunch, but Allen is close (in CLE) and Mayfield busts fast and hard (in BUF or MIA).  Only because it would slightly dampen the amount of insane confidence people here have in their opinions being 100% right.  It might only be a small impact but I'll take what I can get.

 

 

 

[Bruce Harper]

17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I honestly find it interesting that the majorty of experts are projecting Allen to be the 1st or 2nd QB taken in the draft - yet on JetNation you're attacked for suggesting he's going to be good.

I get it if people don't like him and I understand their concerns but to say things like "I thought you knew football" for not agreeing with your position is rather comical.

 

 

Respectfully, I think you are using the term "experts" pretty loosely.  The only guys who are saying that Allen will be one of the two top QBs write about sports for a living, do not have jobs in the NFL and have to come up with interesting stories to hold on to their jobs or to get internet hits.  I remember a similar crowd of writers writing about how Kyle Boller was going to be the next big thing because he had a rifle arm and a very impressive combine.  The real "experts" are preparing their boards and keeping their mouths shut.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

My dream scenario is we draft Rosen and he's the best of the bunch, but Allen is close (in CLE) and Mayfield busts fast and hard (in BUF or MIA).  Only because it would slightly dampen the amount of insane confidence people here have in their opinions being 100% right.  It might only be a small impact but I'll take what I can get.

 

 

 

i'm beginning to think darnold may fall to us.  there seems to be a real chance cleveland takes allen.  

[Bruce Harper]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

My dream scenario is we draft Rosen and he's the best of the bunch, but Allen is close (in CLE) and Mayfield busts fast and hard (in BUF or MIA).  Only because it would slightly dampen the amount of insane confidence people here have in their opinions being 100% right.  It might only be a small impact but I'll take what I can get.

 

 

 

I have quibbled with the argument that size is more important than past performance, but I have no idea how Mayfield will do.  I hope he will do well if we draft him.  I don't wish him ill will unless he is in the division for another team or playing against us.

[Bruce Harper]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i'm beginning to think darnold may fall to us.  there seems to be a real chance cleveland takes allen.  

I have had this same thought but whenever I start to think this I wonder if these guys really know what they are talking about.  It just seems so counter-intuitive that they would go for the most unproven of the bunch.

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I have had this same thought but whenever I start to think this I wonder if these guys really know what they are talking about.  It just seems so counter-intuitive that they would go for the most unproven of the bunch.

Cleveland just went 0-16. If any organization would allow development, it would be them

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I have quibbled with the argument that size is more important than past performance, but I have no idea how Mayfield will do.  I hope he will do well if we draft him.  I don't wish him ill will unless he is in the division for another team or playing against us.

Well said.   I don't wish him ill either.  He seems like a guy who cares immensely about football and the league needs as many good QBs as it can find.  Just not in the AFCE   If he lands there, I hope he's terrible (but same applies to all four of the top guys). 

 

[FidelioJet]

44 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Respectfully, I think you are using the term "experts" pretty loosely.  The only guys who are saying that Allen will be one of the two top QBs write about sports for a living, do not have jobs in the NFL and have to come up with interesting stories to hold on to their jobs or to get internet hits.  I remember a similar crowd of writers writing about how Kyle Boller was going to be the next big thing because he had a rifle arm and a very impressive combine.  The real "experts" are preparing their boards and keeping their mouths shut.

Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative but that's not really true.  There are many former GM's, former NFL QB's, Scouts etc..mostly saying the same things about Allen...

And then there's this from Casserly from another thread..

Again, I'm not telling anyone they have to like him or even trying to convince anyone - all I'm trying to say is people arent stupid and lacking knowledge for liking him as a prospect.  He's a legitimate top 5 NFL QB prospect.   

 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, RVAJet815 said:

With all respect to the Allen truthers, Rosen would make me very, very happy. I'm fine with Darnold or Baker. Allen would send me to the Target for a new television. We cannot risk buying a lotto ticket at this point in the rebuild. 

I guess this is probably where I differ from many Jet fans.  I'm tired of toiling in mediocrity - I would rather roll the dice on someone like Allen and if he hits you have a team that will be in contention for a champtionship for the next 15 years.

And it's not like the other guys are locks - if Rosen was a "lock" maybe I get the point - but he's got a ton of concerns.

[IndianaJet]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I guess this is probably where I differ from many Jet fans.  I'm tired of toiling in mediocrity - I would rather roll the dice on someone like Allen and if he hits you have a team that will be in contention for a champtionship for the next 15 years.

And it's not like the other guys are locks - if Rosen was a "lock" maybe I get the point - but he's got a ton of concerns.

Agreed...which is why I was happy we gave up 3 2nders to move up to the 3 spot.  No matter what....tt gives us a chance.

Me personally, I prefer Mayfield, but I don't claim to know one way or the other who's gonna turn into a elite franchise QB or turn into a bust.

 

[Bruce Harper]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative but that's not really true.  There are many former GM's, former NFL QB's, Scouts etc..mostly saying the same things about Allen...

And then there's this from Casserly from another thread..

Again, I'm not telling anyone they have to like him or even trying to convince anyone - all I'm trying to say is people arent stupid and lacking knowledge for liking him as a prospect.  He's a legitimate top 5 NFL QB prospect.   

 

But only two of those teams allegedly polled liked him best (and they may not have any intention of picking a QB).  Also, FWIW, Casserly is on record saying that the Jets should draft Mayfield over Allen.

[nycdan]

Just now, Bruce Harper said:

But only two of those teams allegedly polled liked him best (and they may not have any intention of picking a QB).  Also, FWIW, Casserly is on record saying that the Jets should draft Mayfield over Allen.

Hasn't Casserly done enough to the Jets for one career?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I honestly find it interesting that the majorty of experts are projecting Allen to be the 1st or 2nd QB taken in the draft - yet on JetNation you're attacked for suggesting he's going to be good.

I get it if people don't like him and I understand their concerns but to say things like "I thought you knew football" for not agreeing with your position is rather comical.

 

 

To me, so is saying Josh Allen is going to be the best. That's comical. How much Wyoming football did you watch last year? Just because NFL-media personalities are caught in the hype isn't an excuse. Some idiot drafted Hackenberg a couple years ago in the 2nd - despite all the evidence in the world suggesting he sucks. Years before that -- every measurable measurable said Christian Ponder will never make it. MIN took him in the first. Allen is of same caliber of concern. He belongs in the 3rd-4th round - but i'll give him credit for a hell of draft-circuit this year. 

"I thought you knew football" -- You chastised Rosen for being "meh" - and championed Allen. I genuinely mistook you for someone who understand the position better. 

[FidelioJet]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

But only two of those teams allegedly polled liked him best (and they may not have any intention of picking a QB).  Also, FWIW, Casserly is on record saying that the Jets should draft Mayfield over Allen.

Yes but he was far and away the leader as the #2 choice.  

[FidelioJet]

51 minutes ago, Paradis said:

To me, so is saying Josh Allen is going to be the best. That's comical. How much Wyoming football did you watch last year? Just because NFL-media personalities are caught in the hype isn't an excuse. Some idiot drafted Hackenberg a couple years ago in the 2nd - despite all the evidence in the world suggesting he sucks. Years before that -- every measurable measurable said Christian Ponder will never make it. MIN took him in the first. Allen is of same caliber of concern. He belongs in the 3rd-4th round - but i'll give him credit for a hell of draft-circuit this year. 

"I thought you knew football" -- You chastised Rosen for being "meh" - and championed Allen. I genuinely mistook you for someone who understand the position better. 

I watched every throw each of these guys made last year - 

Allen truly impressed me - what I saw of his game I believe will best transfer to today's NFL.  People want to say he's innacurate but that's not entirely true - he's actually very accurate quite often, I've seenhim consistently make very tight window throws - to basically covered recievers (his receivers rarely get separation) The exact throw that is necessary in the NFL - he does miss some throws badly on occasion (but so does Rosen and Tom Brady) If the worst thing we hvae to fix with him is finding a way to be more accurate on screens passes - I'll take that chance.

While I can certainly see Rosen's skill-set, apreciate the smoothness - I also see an inmobile-statue with an average NFL arm who hasn't finished each of the past two season due to injury.  If you can't get through a college season how can you expect the gruelling 17 weeks NFL season?  An oft-injured QB will be worse for this franchises development than a bust.

FWIW - I think we're going to end up with Rosen - and i'll be excited for him - just hope he can stay healthy.

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes but he was far and away the leader as the #2 choice.  

Mayfield got more first place votes, unless I'm missing something.  Edit:  I see how his scoring system gave Allen more points than Mayfield.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Mayfield got more first place votes, unless I'm missing something.

Total points - While Allen didnt get a lot of 1st place votes he got the most 2nd place votes and had that second amount of total points (watch the video if you didn't, it's quick)

Again, all I'm saying is - he's a legit top 5 QB prospect.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

i'm beginning to think darnold may fall to us.  there seems to be a real chance cleveland takes allen.  

If they actually do view Allen and darnold relatively close I would imagine they would take Barkley at 1 and Allen or darnold at 4. Nobody is trading up to 2 for josh Allen lol. Jets are highly likely not taking him. If really want Barkley, and sense the giants will take him if they don’t, they will take him 1. 

[Bruce Harper]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Total points - While Allen didnt get a lot of 1st place votes he got the most 2nd place votes and had that second amount of total points (watch the video if you didn't, it's quick)

Again, all I'm saying is - he's a legit top 5 QB prospect.

I don't disagree with that.  I guess I'm just saying I hope that we don't take him.  Go and look at their tape.  Each one of these guys has some very impressive games, such as Mayfield against Ohio State and many others.  Rosen's fourth quarter comeback against Texas A&M.  Darnold's Rose Bowl against Penn State.  Each one of these guys has at least one game that you can watch to get jazzed up about them as the Jets quarterback.  Allen doesn't have that game (to my knowledge -- tell me if I'm wrong).  His best game may have been in the Senior Bowl against generic defenses and only playing part of the game.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

i'm beginning to think darnold may fall to us.  there seems to be a real chance cleveland takes allen.  

It seems definitely possible. Usually the #1 pick seems to become sort of known by now and most seem to think it will be Allen. So if Gettleman stays true to previous form he will take either Chubb or Barkley and we have our choice of Darnold Rosen and Mayfield.

I also think there is a possibility Cleveland takes Barkley 1. 

I think if Mayfield gets past us, I think we see a shocker at 5, with the Saints trading all the way up for Mayfield just a hunch.

But if Darnold is gone, I am convinced we are taking Baker. It just makes the most sense relative to the trade and its timing.

 

 

 

[flgreen]

 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

what's really amusing in this draft is that there are 4 qbs projected to basically go top 10, there are a few teams in the top 10 projected to take qbs and others who may trade into the top 10 - yet the projections for the top qb taken by cleveland, at #1 vary more than who the jets are taking and getting maybe the 3rd best qb.