2019 Edge Rushers

[BCJet]

Given that the 2 most important positions are QB and Edge Rusher, and we figure to get our QB of the future in this draft, things seem to actually be setting up favorably for us in 2019 as there are a bunch of first round caliber edge rushers.

Nick Bosa will be a top 5 pick for sure.

Clelin Ferrell would have been a first rounder this year and Austin Bryant (both from Clemson) will be in the first round discussion.

Joe Jackson DE from Miami - had 6.5 sacks this past season

These four guys are in addition to Ed Oliver, Christian Wilkins, Dexter Lawerence and Rashan Gary all of whom have the ability to be top 10 picks as DTs or 3-4 DEs.

Hopefully Trey Adams, Jarret Stidham and one other QB can also factor into the top group, pushing one of these edge rushers to the Jets, even if we wind up picking in the teens.

(as an aside, how is anyone going to block Clemson's defensive line???)

[Lith]

This is why I think it was huge that we kept next year's 1 in the trade.  Solve for QB this year and use R3/R4 picks to bolster the OL.  Use next year's 1 to address Edge.

[#27TheDominator]

WTF kind of crazy talk is this?  We are in the 4th year of this regime.  Even to the extent you lunatics want to claim this is year 2 of the real rebuild on what planet is it acceptable to wait another year to address our biggest shortcoming on D? 2 years with a ton of cash and a full on tank for a QB in 2017 and we are going to leave EDGE for 2019?  What the ever loving ****?  Blow for Bosa? 

[BCJet]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

WTF kind of crazy talk is this?  We are in the 4th year of this regime.  Even to the extent you lunatics want to claim this is year 2 of the real rebuild on what planet is it acceptable to wait another year to address our biggest shortcoming on D? 2 years with a ton of cash and a full on tank for a QB in 2017 and we are going to leave EDGE for 2019?  What the ever loving ****?  Blow for Bosa? 

So how would you like to address edge rusher.  Pay the price for franchised Zeke Ansah?  Use our first on Bradley Chubb?

QBs and Edge Rushers rarely become available in free agency, thats a fact.  One QB did this year and we made the best offer for him - but he chose to go elsewhere.

The FA Crop of edge rushers isnt bad next year, but again - its rare teams let them go free.   So the draft is the place to do it, which is the point of the post.

If you dont like Mac, thats fine, but dont complain about a strategy of finding an edge rusher, without explaining how you would get one.

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, BCJet said:

So how would you like to address edge rusher.  Pay the price for franchised Zeke Ansah?  Use our first on Bradley Chubb?

QBs and Edge Rushers rarely become available in free agency, thats a fact.  One QB did this year and we made the best offer for him - but he chose to go elsewhere.

The FA Crop of edge rushers isnt bad next year, but again - its rare teams let them go free.   So the draft is the place to do it, which is the point of the post.

If you dont like Mac, thats fine, but dont complain about a strategy of finding an edge rusher, without explaining how you would get one.

My strategy of finding an edge rusher would be to try to find one.  The guy drafted Mauldin and Donahue.  Jenkins does not fit as a rusher, but he is a solid OLB.  It's not acceptable to sit on your ass until a real EDGE falls in your lap.  You do not need a top 3 pick to find a decent player.  We don't need Lawrence Taylor - we need an acceptable starter.  You keep trying until you hit.  Last year he had to bring in Ealy and Bass after final cuts and they played over 70% of the snaps.  That is bullsh*t.

This year we have Jenkins, Mauldin, Josh Martin, Pierre-Louis, and Donahue at our two OLB slots.  I think they may be trying Rodgers kid there too.  That is also bullsh*t. 

[maury77]

Honestly, next year's FA edge class is looking beastly. Khalil Mack, DeMarcus Lawrence, the Minnesota edge guys, Jadeveon Clowney, 

[BCJet]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

My strategy of finding an edge rusher would be to try to find one.  The guy drafted Mauldin and Donahue.  Jenkins does not fit as a rusher, but he is a solid OLB.  It's not acceptable to sit on your ass until a real EDGE falls in your lap.  You do not need a top 3 pick to find a decent player.  We don't need Lawrence Taylor - we need an acceptable starter.  You keep trying until you hit.  Last year he had to bring in Ealy and Bass after final cuts and they played over 70% of the snaps.  That is bullsh*t.

This year we have Jenkins, Mauldin, Josh Martin, Pierre-Louis, and Donahue at our two OLB slots.  I think they may be trying Rodgers kid there too.  That is also bullsh*t. 

So in three drafts Mac has drafted 3 OLBs who fit the mold as 3-4 OLBs who can rush the passer.  Jenkins is more of a run stuffer, but he is also a good athlete for the position, he just isnt von miller.

Mac has tried to fill the spot, he has just selected the wrong guys.  The odds of him, or a new GM, being able to draft one in the next draft are high which was my point, especially given that we wont need a QB

[BCJet]

5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Honestly, next year's FA edge class is looking beastly. Khalil Mack, DeMarcus Lawrence, the Minnesota edge guys, Jadeveon Clowney, 

Danielle Hunter in Minnesota would be a good guy to target, given their cap, but Everson Griffin (opposite him) is signed long term.

Markus Golden on Arizona is a FA too, and had 12 sacks in 2016 before being injured

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

So in three drafts Mac has drafted 3 OLBs who fit the mold as 3-4 OLBs who can rush the passer.  Jenkins is more of a run stuffer, but he is also a good athlete for the position, he just isnt von miller.

Mac has tried to fill the spot, he has just selected the wrong guys.  The odds of him, or a new GM, being able to draft one in the next draft are high which was my point, especially given that we wont need a QB

A guy with a BAP mantra cannot target positions in a draft.  Particularly not more than a year in advance.  In three drafts and 4 FA periods he has added sh*t.  Jenkins is fine, but not a "find" or a pass rusher.  Mauldin has been downright disappointing and Donahue was eh at best.  They picked up Ealy on August 27 and by September 10 he outsnapped Donahue 43 to 6.  They nabbed Bass on September 21 and on September 24 Donahue only outsnapped him 23 to 16.  By week 4 Bass had 48 snaps to Donahue's 14, Donahue hurt his elbow in that game, but apparently that was late in OT.  When guys you pick up off the street are immediately starting, you do not wait 2 years to find replacements. 

[maury77]

2 hours ago, BCJet said:

Danielle Hunter in Minnesota would be a good guy to target, given their cap, but Everson Griffin (opposite him) is signed long term.

Markus Golden on Arizona is a FA too, and had 12 sacks in 2016 before being injured

Griffin being signed actually helps us, they can't sign Griffin, Hunter and Barr to big contracts. 

[#27TheDominator]

Griffen is the one that put up the real numbers though Hunter had a very nice 2016.  Instead of scouring top 10 draft picks and huge money FAs, how about we try to find some size/speed freaks of our own?  The Vikings have Griffen #100 overall, Hunter #88, and Robison #102.  Only Barr was taken at #9.  It is possible that they needed Barr to let these other guys roam free, but we still should be looking for this type of player, rather than guys like Mauldin.  The lack of explosiveness is obvious by comparison.  Those guys kill Mauldin by every measure.

[Lith]

21 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

WTF kind of crazy talk is this?  We are in the 4th year of this regime.  Even to the extent you lunatics want to claim this is year 2 of the real rebuild on what planet is it acceptable to wait another year to address our biggest shortcoming on D? 2 years with a ton of cash and a full on tank for a QB in 2017 and we are going to leave EDGE for 2019?  What the ever loving ****?  Blow for Bosa? 

I would love to solve for Edge and do it this year if possible.  But since we are using our 1 on a QB, and we don't have a 2, I just don't think it is that realistic.  Since 2000, there have only been 5 guys drafted in the 3rd round that have averaged more than a 1/2 sack per game: Cliff Avril, Justin Houston, Derrick Burgess, Danielle Hunter and Yannick Ngakoue,  That is 5 out of over 130 Edge/OLB/DE drafted in the 3rd round since 2000.  There are other good pass rushers on the list who average a little under 8 sacks - Olivier Vernon, Justin Tuck, Derrick Burgess, but we are a lot more likely to come away with another Lorenzo Mauldin or Jordan Jenkins.

If we can get a guy like Arden Key, Lorenzo Carter or Dorance Armstrong in the 3rd and they can give us production like any of these guys above, it would be a home run and I would be thrilled with that.  But I think we are a lot more likely to come away with a 3rd rounder who can improve the OL than to come away with a difference making edge rusher.  And as much as pass rush is a need, so to is an above average OL to protect our young QB and give him a better chance to be successful.

[Dcat]

I like Holland more than Armstrong but early round 3 is kind of too early for him maybe.  Do they fall to 4? 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

I would love to solve for Edge and do it this year if possible.  But since we are using our 1 on a QB, and we don't have a 2, I just don't think it is that realistic.  Since 2000, there have only been 5 guys drafted in the 3rd round that have averaged more than a 1/2 sack per game: Cliff Avril, Justin Houston, Derrick Burgess, Danielle Hunter and Yannick Ngakoue,  That is 5 out of over 130 Edge/OLB/DE drafted in the 3rd round since 2000.  There are other good pass rushers on the list who average a little under 8 sacks - Olivier Vernon, Justin Tuck, Derrick Burgess, but we are a lot more likely to come away with another Lorenzo Mauldin or Jordan Jenkins.

If we can get a guy like Arden Key, Lorenzo Carter or Dorance Armstrong in the 3rd and they can give us production like any of these guys above, it would be a home run and I would be thrilled with that.  But I think we are a lot more likely to come away with a 3rd rounder who can improve the OL than to come away with a difference making edge rusher.  And as much as pass rush is a need, so to is an above average OL to protect our young QB and give him a better chance to be successful.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but IMO this is bullsh*t.  It is not acceptable for a guy who supposedly drafts for BAP to wait through several drafts for a player that can "solve" the EDGE problem.  If this mook has already decided what position he is drafting in the 3rd round, we are ****ed.  

I didn't say that we needed an 8 sack a year guy, or need to draft him.  Last year we started Jenkins with Ealy and Bass getting the bulk of the snaps.  At this point we have Mauldin with Ealy and Bass UFA.  Maybe we will sign those guys or others, but at this point we are worse than 2017, and in 2017 we sucked.  We need to improve at the position.  At this point we have not.  The way things are going around here Mauldin will have a nice year and Maccagnan will be lauded for drafting him while being forced to re-sign him for big $$ or watch him walk.

 

[Untouchable]

I’d kill for baby Bosa, but I can’t see us drafting that high next year. At least I sure as hell hope we aren’t.

Ferrell would be a nice target 

[Lith]

31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I appreciate where you are coming from, but IMO this is bullsh*t.  It is not acceptable for a guy who supposedly drafts for BAP to wait through several drafts for a player that can "solve" the EDGE problem.  If this mook has already decided what position he is drafting in the 3rd round, we are ****ed.  

I didn't say that we needed an 8 sack a year guy, or need to draft him.  Last year we started Jenkins with Ealy and Bass getting the bulk of the snaps.  At this point we have Mauldin with Ealy and Bass UFA.  Maybe we will sign those guys or others, but at this point we are worse than 2017, and in 2017 we sucked.  We need to improve at the position.  At this point we have not.  The way things are going around here Mauldin will have a nice year and Maccagnan will be lauded for drafting him while being forced to re-sign him for big $$ or watch him walk.

 

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.  But I could substitute OL for Edge and say the same thing. Ealy signed with Dallas, so he is not an option to be back.  Macc has ignored Edge in the draft and tried to shop in the bargain basement bringing in some of the guys you mention.  We have been bottom 5 in the league in sacks each of the last two seasons and likely will be there again this year.   But at this point, who is he bringing in that will make a difference for 2018? 

But I could say the same for OL -- he has not drafted a lineman before the 5th round.  Shell and Jarvis Harrison.  That's it.  He has tried to build an OL through FA, but who do we have on our OL that is not average or below average &/or an injury risk.

Edge and OL are both areas in need of upgrade that have largely been ignored through the draft.  And if we can get a solid edge rusher or a solid OL in the 3rd round, I would be happy with either one.  Like I said before, I just think we are a lot more likely to upgrade the OL in R3 than to find a guy who can make a difference in 2018.

And I am about as far from a Macc supporter as you can get -- I am about the last guy around here who is going to be lauding him if Mauldin has a nice season.