Patriot Killa Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/deep-dive-into-how-top-4-qbs-in-draft-compare-to-nfls-top-15-qbs/amp/ Hand size? Wonderlic? An investigation into draft’s top QBs There is no formula for drafting a quarterback. This will be on display again on April 26 when as many as six quarterbacks are projected to go in the first round and four might go in the top 10. This college quarterback class has been heralded as one of the best in years. Yet, there is no consensus on who is the best quarterback in this class, and there is no predicting how any of these quarterbacks will fare as professionals. With the Giants and Jets possibly primed to select quarterbacks next week, The Post examined some of the characteristics of the top 15 current NFL quarterbacks (based on average QBR over past three seasons) displayed coming out of college to see if anything could be gleaned from it and how the top four quarterbacks in this year’s draft compare. Here is what we found: Top 15 NFL QBs used for comparisons Based on average QBR from past three seasons (In alphabetical order) Tom Brady, Patriots Drew Brees, Saints Kirk Cousins, Vikings Andrew Luck, Colts Carson Palmer, retired (Cards) this year Dak Prescott, Cowboys Philip Rivers, Chargers Aaron Rodgers, Packers Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers Matt Ryan, Falcons Alex Smith, Redskins Matthew Stafford, Lions Tyrod Taylor, Browns Carson Wentz, Eagles Russell Wilson, Seahawks Height Tallest Carson Palmer 6-5 Philip Rivers 6-5 Ben Roethlisberger 6-5 Carson Wentz 6-5 Tom Brady 6-4 Andrew Luck 6-4 Matt Ryan 6-4 Alex Smith 6-4 Shortest Dak Prescott 6-2 Aaron Rodgers 6-2 Tyrod Taylor 6-1 Drew Brees 6-0 Russell Wilson 5-11 Prospects Josh Allen 6-5 Sam Darnold 6-4 Josh Rosen 6-4 Baker Mayfield 6-0 Analysis: Most of the top QBs are big. It helps them see clearly over the line and down the field. Big QBs are also tougher to take down, as Roethlisberger has shown over the past 14 seasons. However, Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have shown that smaller quarterbacks can succeed. In this year’s group, Mayfield measures a shade under 6-foot-1, which is one of the biggest concerns team have about him. On the other side, scouts love Allen’s size. He has drawn comparisons to Roethlisberger and Wentz because of his large frame. Hand size Biggest Dak Prescott 10 7/8 Drew Brees 10 ¼ Russell Wilson 10 ¼ Andrew Luck 10 Matthew Stafford 10 Tyrod Taylor 10 Carson Wentz 10 Smallest Carson Palmer 9 ½ Matt Ryan 9 ¹/₂ Aaron Rodgers 9 3/8 Alex Smith 9 3/8 Philip Rivers 9 ¼ Prospects Josh Allen 10 1/8 Josh Rosen 9 7/8 Sam Darnold 9 3/8 Baker Mayfield 9 ¼ Analysis: Hand size has become a key measurement for QBs in the draft in recent years. Teams believe big hands means better ball security, particularly in cold weather. A few years ago, Jared Goff’s 9-inch hands drew a lot of questions. Brady’s hand size is unknown. It was not measured at the combine when he was in the draft. The interesting thing in looking at the current NFL players is that two of the smaller players in the league have big hands. Brees and Wilson are both pointed to as examples of shorter quarterbacks having success. Both have 10 ¼-inch hands. Coincidence? Mayfield has been compared to those two because of his height, but his hands are just 9 ¼ inches. Should that scare off cold-weather teams? Wonderlic High Scores Alex Smith 40 Carson Wentz 40 Matthew Stafford 38 Andrew Luck 37 Aaron Rodgers 35 Low Scores Drew Brees 28 Russell Wilson 28 Carson Palmer 26 Dak Prescott 25 Ben Roethlisberger 25 Tyrod Taylor 15 Prospects Josh Allen 37 Josh Rosen 29 Sam Darnold 28 Baker Mayfield 25 Analysis: The Wonderlic is an intelligence test first used in the NFL by Hall of Fame Cowboys coach Tom Landry. There is debate as to how much teams can learn from it but it is still used by the NFL, and QBs are expected to do well on it. Two former Jets both scored 48 on the Wonderlic, the highest known score for a quarterback — Ryan Fitzpatrick and Greg McElroy. This year’s top four all did fairly well on the Wonderlic, and there should not be any concerns from teams about their scores. Allen’s score stands out and may impress someone. Conference Big Ten 4 Pac 12 3 ACC 3 SEC 2 MAC 1 Mount. W. 1 Miss Val. 1 Prospects Pac 12 2 Big 12 1 Mount. W. 1 Analysis: The big conferences dominate here, as you would expect. The exceptions are Roethlisberger (MAC), Smith (Mountain West) and Wentz (Missouri Valley). Wilson could actually count for both the Big Ten and the ACC, since he went to N.C. State before playing a year at Wisconsin. The question with this year’s group is can a Big 12 quarterback be successful in the NFL. Mayfield comes from the wide open Oklahoma offense played by many in that conference. It has not translated into NFL success, though it should be noted the Chiefs are banking on Patrick Mahomes II out of Texas Tech to be their franchise quarterback. There is also concern that Allen did not dominate the Mountain West last year. Completion percentage Highest Andrew Luck 67.0 Alex Smith 66.3 Ben Roethlisberger 65.5 Kirk Cousins 64.1 Carson Wentz 64.1 Lowest Russell Wilson 60.9 Matt Ryan 59.9 Carson Palmer 59.1 Tyrod Taylor 57.2 Matthew Stafford 57.1 Prospects Baker Mayfield 68.5 Sam Darnold 64.9 Josh Rosen 60.9 Josh Allen 56.3 Analysis: The 60 percent mark is the dividing line here. Anything under is seen as troubling by NFL teams. Stafford is proof that you can be a successful quarterback even with a low college completion percentage. Allen’s completion percentage has been a hot topic for months. Is it a red flag or a product of him not having a strong supporting cast? Mayfield was the most accurate quarterback in college football last year. That also comes with questions, though. Was it because of the offensive system he played in? College starts Most Philip Rivers 51 Russell Wilson 47 Carson Palmer 45 Tyrod Taylor 42 Kirk Cousins 40 Fewest Matt Ryan 33 Tom Brady 25 Carson Wentz 23 Alex Smith 22 Aaron Rodgers 21 Prospects Baker Mayfield 46 Josh Rosen 30 Josh Allen 26 Sam Darnold 24 Analysis: Bill Parcells used to say he did not like QBs who had not started a lot of games in college. Mark Sanchez came under scrutiny when he was drafted after starting just 16 games. Mitchell Trubisky also drew questions last year for starting just 13 games. Once you get to the 20-start mark, this becomes less of a question. That means you have started for the better part of two years. None of the quarterbacks at the top of this year’s draft have experience questions. College winning percentage Highest Alex Smith .955 (21-1) Carson Wentz .870 (20-3) Aaron Rodgers .810 (17-4) Tyrod Taylor .809 (34-8) Tom Brady .800 (20-5) Lowest Dak Prescott .694 (25-11) Philip Rivers .667 (34-17) Drew Brees .649 (24-13) Russell Wilson .617 (29-18) Carson Palmer .600 (27-18) Prospects Sam Darnold .833 (20-4) Baker Mayfield .826 (28-8) Josh Allen .615 (16-10) Josh Rosen .567 (17-13) Analysis: This is usually more popular with fans than teams, but sometimes the argument is made that a quarterback is “a winner.” This was a popular argument from Tim Tebow fans. Does college winning percentage matter? It definitely can indicate a QB is playing at a high level, but there are so many other factors that go into team success. Alabama’s quarterbacks would be top prospects every year if winning truly was an indication of a good quarterback. Darnold and Mayfield own at a high clip. Teams have to figure out what value that has. Allen’s win percentage is a little low for playing in a weak conference. Look at what Wentz did against low-level competition. He dominated. Allen did not. That could hurt him. College interceptions Most Carson Palmer 49 Drew Brees 45 Matt Ryan 37 Philip Rivers 34 Ben Roethlisberger 34 Fewest Tyrod Taylor 20 Tom Brady 17 Carson Wentz 14 Aaron Rodgers 13 Alex Smith 8 Prospects Baker Mayfield 30 Josh Rosen 26 Sam Darnold 22 Josh Allen 21 Analysis: Do QBs who turn it over in college continue to turn it over in the pros? Generally, yes. Palmer and Brees both had seasons where they led the NFL in interceptions. Smith and Rodgers are known as two of the least turnover-prone quarterbacks. Mayfield’s and Rosen’s totals are inflated because of how many starts they made. Darnold’s turnovers concern teams. They are studying his interceptions and trying to figure out whether the problem is a simple fix or something that will stay with him throughout his career. 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rangerous Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 mayfield stands with the top category most of the time. they really needed to normalize much of this "data". mayfield threw 30 ints in 46 games. compare that to rosen throwing 26 in 30 games. imo mayfield is not a turnover machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drums Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, rangerous said: mayfield stands with the top category most of the time. they really needed to normalize much of this "data". mayfield threw 30 ints in 46 games. compare that to rosen throwing 26 in 30 games. imo mayfield is not a turnover machine. Agreed- that stat should have been averaged per game played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 This paints an interesting picture of the QB prospects this year.....a picture that's as clear as mud. Extremely challenging evaluation tasks for GMs in my opinion. Every guy has an issue or question mark, and it's different with each guy. Height, turnovers, accuracy, offensive system, mobility, leadership, etc. These 4 guys are all over the map when you assess them across these categories. I really think it will come down to two things: 1. Select the guy who has "correctable" deficiencies. Whether it's footwork for accuracy, protecting the ball, etc. you need to pick a guy who has great qualities and then his one or two problems are things you believe your organization can fix with him. 2. Gut feel. Completely arbitrary but some GMs and talent evaluators who have been in this business for decades can have a kind of sixth sense for a franchise type QB. Watching a prospect, getting to know him, etc. can let them sniff out a guy who is going to take a step forward in the NFL or a guy who will shrink on the next level due to the speed or complexity of the NFL game. It really is like stock picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, rangerous said: mayfield stands with the top category most of the time. they really needed to normalize much of this "data". mayfield threw 30 ints in 46 games. compare that to rosen throwing 26 in 30 games. imo mayfield is not a turnover machine. To be fair, they did state in the article... "Mayfield’s and Rosen’s totals are inflated because of how many starts they made." But I agree, they could use a rate of INTs per game or, even better, INTs per attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Coincidence? Mayfield has been compared to those two because of his height, but his hands are just 9 ¼ inches. Should that scare off cold-weather teams? Yeesh. Between this and Rosen’s winning percent and Allen's accuracy and Darnolds turnovers you have to wonder if the entire ******* group is over rated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freemanm Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Just some entertainment as we experience the excruciating two weeks before the draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Mayfield’s small hands really bothers me. Bridgewater has the same hand size and had to wear gloves to hold on to the ball in Minnesota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Young Jetty said: Mayfield’s small hands really bothers me. Bridgewater has the same hand size and had to wear gloves to hold on to the ball in Minnesota. And Bridgewater was playing in a dome and still was meh at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, jetstream23 said: To be fair, they did state in the article... "Mayfield’s and Rosen’s totals are inflated because of how many starts they made." But I agree, they could use a rate of INTs per game or, even better, INTs per attempt. Tough to throw picks when most of the defenses play are soft in the big 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, rangerous said: mayfield stands with the top category most of the time. they really needed to normalize much of this "data". mayfield threw 30 ints in 46 games. compare that to rosen throwing 26 in 30 games. imo mayfield is not a turnover machine. Neither was Geno in college playing the same offense and same conference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 So Mayfield is the only shorter QB with smaller hands.....now I'm worried again. My god should it really be Allen at 3 instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAD_Brooklyn Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Sh**! Is Mayfield gang banging? Cause all I see is a bunch of red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Mart Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Interesting Darnold has been getting sh*t for small hand size yet it’s the same as ARodgers who plays in one of the worst winter environments/fields as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Young Jetty said: Mayfield’s small hands really bothers me. Bridgewater has the same hand size and had to wear gloves to hold on to the ball in Minnesota. Bridgewater's worn gloves since Louisville. Wasn't like he got to the pros and couldn't handle it all the sudden. How much is due to hand size who knows. But the biggest take away for me, is it's had little affect on Rodgers who plays in the sh*tiest weather stadium in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 2 hours ago, LIJetsFan said: So Mayfield is the only shorter QB with smaller hands.....now I'm worried again. My god should it really be Allen at 3 instead? Ha won't lie, I caught a slight twing when I noticed that point of diffferentiation, between him and the other two shorter pro QBs, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 2 hours ago, LIJetsFan said: So Mayfield is the only shorter QB with smaller hands.....now I'm worried again. My god should it really be Allen at 3 instead? #1 pick Michael Vick .... 6'-0" ... hands 8-1/2" Tony Romo ... hands 8-7/8" Jared Goff ... hands 9" Colin Kaepernick ... hands 9-1/8" 30 minutes ago, C Mart said: Interesting Darnold has been getting sh*t for small hand size yet it’s the same as ARodgers who plays in one of the worst winter environments/fields as anyone. Brady too ... 9-3/8" Quote Brady’s hand size is unknown. It was not measured at the combine when he was in the draft. http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=4732 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Honestly. There are a lot of tings to look at with these guys. But...The small hands thing is just downright stupid. Is it something tcSt should be considered? Sure. But is Mayfield going to be fumbling all over the field? Missing throws because his hands are too small? Just feel like a data point that has been blown way out of proportion. Hey Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixhead Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Don't like this comparison. Need a comparison that includes good college players that were busts in the pros to examine their traits and stats not just top pros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 So Mayfield is the shortest by a lot, has the smallest hands, has the worst wonderlic score has thrown more ints and plays in a conference that produces almost no top end qbs but because he has a good comp % playing vs guys who will be hard pressed to be invited to a cfl camp and has 'spunk' he is the chosen favorite of many on this form. If the Jets take him after Darnold and Rosen go #1, #2 it will just be a slight fail of not getting into the top two picks by mac. If they draft mayfield and pass on either Darnold or Rosen they are f'd in the head and deserve what they get. Oh we have had Russel wilson and drew brees! Wilson makes tons of plays by just running around and using his athletic skill on a team that had the #1 defense and a bell cow rb. Mayfield is not remotely close to wilson in being an athlete. That leaves Drew Brees, one out of hundreds of qb prospects over the he last number of years. Mayfield will get drafted fairly early, I hope to hell it is not by the jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 3 hours ago, LIJetsFan said: So Mayfield is the only shorter QB with smaller hands.....now I'm worried again. My god should it really be Allen at 3 instead? You need hands big enough to get a good grip on the ball...9 1/4 is big enough...about average for QBs 10" hands are really big. An average man is less than 7.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanJet Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I knew baby hands baker man-champions would be all over this thread to protect him. Face it questionable character, small hands, nonathletic, and short aren't things you gave up 3 2nd rounders for. Now if I was making an all star running from the po-po squad maybe I'd select him (although the police did say he was slow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, SpartanJet said: I knew baby hands baker man-champions would be all over this thread to protect him. Face it questionable character, small hands, nonathletic, and short aren't things you gave up 3 2nd rounders for. Now if I was making an all star running from the po-po squad maybe I'd select him (although the police did say he was slow). Player School Hand Jacoby Brissett N. C. State 9 3/4 Connor Cook Michigan State 9 3/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadienJetsFan Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Is there a test that tells just who can read a defense? That I'd find interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanJet Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said: Player School Hand Jacoby Brissett N. C. State 9 3/4 Connor Cook Michigan State 9 3/4 Second or third time you have brought up Connor Cook. Seems you have a case of the whataboutism. We are talking 2018 QB's not 4th round 2016 draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, SpartanJet said: Second or third time you have brought up Connor Cook. Seems you have a case of the whataboutism. We are talking 2018 QB's not 4th round 2016 draft picks. I just like to play around.??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 11 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said: Is there a test that tells just who can read a defense? That I'd find interesting. Yeah that playing Quarterback thing is not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 What a dumb article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Darnold’s very high turnover yr should concern teams. It should have been a yr he polished up and have the ints go down, my wayyy up. Just reminds me of a former usc qb we had Who also LOVED to turn the ball over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 18 hours ago, Young Jetty said: Mayfield’s small hands really bothers me. Bridgewater has the same hand size and had to wear gloves to hold on to the ball in Minnesota. Bridgewater wore 2 gloves in college at Louisville, has nothing to do with weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 So I guess hand size is this year's 49 MPH.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 22 hours ago, Young Jetty said: Mayfield’s small hands really bothers me. Bridgewater has the same hand size and had to wear gloves to hold on to the ball in Minnesota. Darnold leading the nation in turnovers really worries me. If he turns the ball over that much in nice comfortable weather in Cali vs college d, how many more times is he going to turn the ball over in sh*tty north east weather vs nfl D?? browns can have him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 On 4/15/2018 at 7:57 PM, Patriot Killa said: College starts Most Philip Rivers 51 Russell Wilson 47 Carson Palmer 45 Tyrod Taylor 42 Kirk Cousins 40 Fewest Matt Ryan 33 Tom Brady 25 Carson Wentz 23 Alex Smith 22 Aaron Rodgers 21 Prospects Baker Mayfield 46 Josh Rosen 30 Josh Allen 26 Sam Darnold 24 Analysis: Bill Parcells used to say he did not like QBs who had not started a lot of games in college. Mark Sanchez came under scrutiny when he was drafted after starting just 16 games. Mitchell Trubisky also drew questions last year for starting just 13 games. Once you get to the 20-start mark, this becomes less of a question. That means you have started for the better part of two years. None of the quarterbacks at the top of this year’s draft have experience questions. College winning percentage Highest Alex Smith .955 (21-1) Carson Wentz .870 (20-3) Aaron Rodgers .810 (17-4) Tyrod Taylor .809 (34-8) Tom Brady .800 (20-5) Lowest Dak Prescott .694 (25-11) Philip Rivers .667 (34-17) Drew Brees .649 (24-13) Russell Wilson .617 (29-18) Carson Palmer .600 (27-18) Prospects Sam Darnold .833 (20-4) Baker Mayfield .826 (28-8) Josh Allen .615 (16-10) Josh Rosen .567 (17-13) Mayfield play in 46 games but it shows him with an 28-8 record. 10 games are missing. I believe his record is 38-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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