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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Your general point is okay but your reasoning is garbage. Considering that the Jets have gotten solid statistical QB play for 2 of the 3 years he’s been here

we're talking about drafted players, there Tom Baker. Pay attention. He's drafted the worst QBs possible. 

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

No they wouldn’t. A younger Coles would be

In 2008 Coles put up 70/850 with 7 TDs on 116 targets.  That is right up there with the best statistical seasons anybody on the current roster has ever had.  I would give a slight nod to Anderson's 2017, but not by much.  I don't think any other year put up by a Jets WR has been better and that includes Pryor's 1,000 yards in 2016.

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34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eliajah McGuire had 2 starts, but only had one game with more than 34 yards rushing.  He averaged three and a half yards per carry.  He finished out the season with games of -3, 24, 0 and -6 yards rushing.  He is young and I am not writing him off, but in what world is that an "average starter?"

I think he could be a good roll player. I had previously edited my comment to make that clearer. Not sure if the edit did the trick. But a backup running back, especially in an offense that prefers a committee, has some value. 

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59 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What do you expect out of a 3rd Rd pick if a solid/capable starter isn't acceptable?

I refuse to get in the weeds with you and dilute the point being made.

What I expect is to see a team today that is materially better than the team our GM and Head Coach inherited.

What I expect is to see a team today that is materially better than the five win teams we rolled out in 2016 & 2017.

I do not see that today, in either case.

Perhaps you think my expectations are too high.  Perhaps I think yours are far too low.

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20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

we're talking about drafted players, there Tom Baker. Pay attention. He's drafted the worst QBs possible. 

A: Thank you for Tom Baker.

B: I know that but there has to be someone on the receiving end of those stats. There can't be one without the other

C: This is what I think the argument should be. Maccagnan has drafted 6-7 solid starters, but the starters are in quiet NFL positions, if you get my meaning

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20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

In 2008 Coles put up 70/850 with 7 TDs on 116 targets.  That is right up there with the best statistical seasons anybody on the current roster has ever had.  I would give a slight nod to Anderson's 2017, but not by much.  I don't think any other year put up by a Jets WR has been better and that includes Pryor's 1,000 yards in 2016.

Enunwa put about the same yardage on fewer catches with 3 less TDs in 2016. Not better but comparable

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31 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Of course he does because the Jets were so thin at WR that they were forced to play him. Now they have depth. 

Remember in 2009 they had to trade for Braylon Edwards

 

25 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No they wouldn’t. A younger Coles would be

 

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Enunwa put about the same yardage on fewer catches with 3 less TDs in 2016. Not better but comparable

1.  3 less TDs is pretty significant. 

2. How many yards did Enunwa have in 2017?  If you are going to bitch at Coles age, shouldn't you make sure Enunwa can play before you prop him up?

3. Your point seemed to be that the 2008 Jets offense was so weak that the current team is demonstrably better.  How is propping up comparable stats making your point?  Cotchery and Coles each had years that were considerably better than the best year any WR on the current team ever had. 

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

 

1.  3 less TDs is pretty significant. 

2. How many yards did Enunwa have in 2017?  If you are going to bitch at Coles age, shouldn't you make sure Enunwa can play before you prop him up?

3. Your point seemed to be that the 2008 Jets offense was so weak that the current team is demonstrably better.  How is propping up comparable stats making your point?  Cotchery and Coles each had years that were considerably better than the best year any WR on the current team ever had. 

1. True  but given Enunwa is a slot receiver and Coles was an outside receiver, not surprising

2. WHy would I think he couldn't play? I haven't heard of any setbacks.

3. Well they did have a HOF QB.

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7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I think Shane's question is a good one.  How many Jets could you get a 3rd round pick or better for right now?

actually it's a pretty stupid question.  How many Bills, Dolphins, or even Pats for that matter could fetch a 3rd round pick or better?

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9 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

1. True  but given Enunwa is a slot receiver and Coles was an outside receiver, not surprising

2. WHy would I think he couldn't play? I haven't heard of any setbacks.

3. Well they did have a HOF QB.

Chad Pennington is a HOF QB?  They both put up better numbers with Chadwick than Kearse put up with Wilson, or Pryor with anybody, including Cousins. 

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Really?  You don't say? 

2007 was Chad Pennington and Kellen Clemens.  Cotchery had 82 for 1130, Coles was hurt.  In 2006 with ole Noodle Arm making 16 starts they had 91/1098 and 82/961 both with 6 TDs.  Guess it was all the QB!

Pennington's a good QB too. ONly QB besides Brady to win the division since Brady came in.

Besides you said 2008-2009. You just, in panic, changed the battle lines.

You're not going to win this.

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13 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Pennington's a good QB too. ONly QB besides Brady to win the division since Brady came in.

Besides you said 2008-2009. You just, in panic, changed the battle lines.

You're not going to win this.

Win?  You are completely delusional.  

I said 2008 and 2009 because those were the years that Chansi Stuckey was on the Jets.  You called on the Chansi Stuckey era as a point of low talent for the Jets.  The 2009 Jets may have been the best team we have witnessed (possibly beaten out only by 2010) and they were certainly better than anything from 2015-present.  The 2008 Jets were also considerably better than anything from 2015-present and, as you point out, they had a HOF QB.  Meanwhile, Chansi Stuckey, a 7th rounder propped as some kind of figurehead of poor drafting, had more yardage during a season and a quarter with the Jets than any player drafted by Maccagnan has had in their career.

Yep.  You are right.  If you still think you are winning, I am not going to win.  This is like one of Ape's epic troll jobs, only without the scat and with an Ira from Staten Island sports radio flair.  

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23 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Right, but I'm saying that if right now it's 21 of 22, then I want to see next year what X of 22 is from those 3 drafts in 2015, 2016, and 2017.

I understand and agree w/u. Just saying 4 years i smy cutoff in brutal NFL. If guys start falling in year 4 but helped prior 3 years I am somewhat OK with that.

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Regardless of what the fans think it's clear that both Mac and Bowles are "respected" throughout the league and are perceived in a much more favorable light than they are by Jets fans. Why would be an interesting discussion but it's clear that is the case.

Whats most funny about this (apart from the fact it IS true!) is that the Jets PLAYERS themselves are generally perceived in a much LESS favorable light than they are by Jets fans.  

As you say, it makes for a very interesting discussion if we choose to have it.

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18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Whats most funny about this (apart from the fact it IS true!) is that the Jets PLAYERS themselves are generally perceived in a much LESS favorable light than they are by Jets fans.  

As you say, it makes for a very interesting discussion if we choose to have it.

I don't think that's accurate. I think Jamal Adams, for instance, is perceived to be a good young player by most of the NFL while Jets fans (at least on this board) seem to hate the guy and think he sucks. Jets fans are pretty hard on their own. There are pockets of homers but I think Jets fans like yourself are actually much harder on the roster than most people out there.

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Mac has had very good draft and cap equity during his tenure and he has failed to make noticeable improvements to the roster.  Now it may be that Bowles is dragging him down is this regard, I donno.  

This oughta be his last chance.  Since the last two years of Rex this team has sucked.  At least we are now in position to hit a home run QB wise so I give Mac some credit for that.  But overall he is failing.        

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I said 2008 and 2009 because those were the years that Chansi Stuckey was on the Jets.  You called on the Chansi Stuckey era as a point of low talent for the Jets.  

Low talent at the WR position. And then you changed the argument to 2007 because Pennington wasn't on the Jets in 2008 and 2009. You brought up Pennington

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10 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't think that's accurate. I think Jamal Adams, for instance, is perceived to be a good young player by most of the NFL while Jets fans (at least on this board) seem to hate the guy and think he sucks. Jets fans are pretty hard on their own. There are pockets of homers but I think Jets fans like yourself are actually much harder on the roster than most people out there.

I don't think I have seen anybody say this.  Many of us are not fans of the pick because we don't like 4.56 strong safeties at #6.  That does not mean that we think he sucks, should be cut or that we hate him.  The Bills and Cleveland picked behind us and got Tre'davious White/2018 #22 and Jabril Peppers/#4 in 2018.  If we didn't like the QBs, there were better moves to make. Adams seems to be a quality starter.  I wanted more.

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think I have seen anybody say this.  Many of us are not fans of the pick because we don't like 4.56 strong safeties at #6.  That does not mean that we think he sucks, should be cut or that we hate him.  The Bills and Cleveland picked behind us and got Tre'davious White/2018 #22 and Jabril Peppers/#4 in 2018.  If we didn't like the QBs, there were better moves to make. Adams seems to be a quality starter.  I wanted more.

But wouldn't you say in the abstract, that that sounds like sour grapes. Like winning a Nissan but wanting a Porsche?

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3 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What do you expect out of a 3rd Rd pick if a solid/capable starter isn't acceptable?

 

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

They want HOFs at every pick. That doesn't happen. 

And I would argue that their roster is more talented than what it was. People forget the Chansi Stuckey era

 

12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Low talent at the WR position. And then you changed the argument to 2007 because Pennington wasn't on the Jets in 2008 and 2009. You brought up Pennington

Does Jordan Jenkins play WR?  Cause they were talking about him when you made your stupid ass comment, not Ardarius Stewart who has a long way to go to reach solid/capable starter. 

You are the one that keeps mis-characterizing the discussion.  You said 2008 had worse WRs, I countered that Coles and Cotchery were better than what we have now.  Your response was the Coles was too old.  Even though Coles year in 2008 was as good as anything the current Jets WR have done.  Your response to that was that he had a HOF QB, which is nice but not particularly relevant.  But hey, I must be mistaken. 

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2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But wouldn't you say in the abstract, that that sounds like sour grapes. Like winning a Nissan but wanting a Porsche?

Sour grapes?  No, it is like your wife winning a free car.  She has her choice of rows of Bentleys, Ferraris and Aston Martins and she selects a Nissan Quest.  When you complain that she left so much value on the table is it sour grapes?  If you get a notice that you won another free car do you send her to make the pick? 

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

 

 

Does Jarvis Jenkins play WR?  Cause they were talking about him when you made your stupid ass comment, not Ardarius Stewart who has a long way to go to reach solid/capable starter. 

You are the one that keeps mis-characterizing the discussion.  You said 2008 had worse WRs, I countered that Coles and Cotchery were better than what we have now.  Your response was the Coles was too old.  Even though Coles year in 2008 was as good as anything the current Jets WR have done.  Your response to that was that he had a HOF QB, which is nice but not particularly relevant.  But hey, I must be mistaken. 

I will also say that the age difference is a key factor. You say Coles in 2008 was as good as anything the current Jets WRs have done. But the current Jets WRs are younger. I prefer younger players to older anyday for the most part

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Sour grapes?  No, it is like your wife winning a free car.  She has her choice of rows of Bentleys, Ferraris and Aston Martins and she selects a Nissan Quest.  When you complain that she left so much value on the table is it sour grapes?  If you get a notice that you won another free car do you send her to make the pick? 

Depends on what I'm looking for. Flashiness or Reliability.

And the sense of what I get here is that most Jets fans want flashy picks

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Depends on what I'm looking for. Flashiness or Reliability.

And the sense of what I get here is that most Jets fans want flashy picks

We don't want flash.  We want production.  Enjoy your Nissan.  While the rest of the NFL is running rings around us, you can revel in your reliability.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

We don't want flash.  We want production.  Enjoy your Nissan.  While the rest of the NFL is running rings around us, you can revel in your reliability.

No you want numerical production. You want stats.

I will enjoy it because I know that's the proper way to build a champion. Philly did it, New England did it

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't think that's accurate. I think Jamal Adams, for instance, is perceived to be a good young player by most of the NFL while Jets fans (at least on this board) seem to hate the guy and think he sucks.

Fans hate Adams because he is a safety and was picked where he was picked.  That's the entire reason, he'll never be able to live up to that draft spot in that draft class, he's a Safety after all.

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Jets fans are pretty hard on their own.

Lol, sometimes.  Other times, amazingly not (like right now, any conversation re: our WR group as an example).

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

There are pockets of homers but I think Jets fans like yourself are actually much harder on the roster than most people out there.

"Jets Fans like me" are few and far between IMO.  

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Fans hate Adams because he is a safety and was picked where he was picked.  That's the entire reason, he'll never be able to live up to that draft spot in that draft class, he's a Safety after all.

Also, he sucks.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Fans hate Adams because he is a safety and was picked where he was picked.  That's the entire reason, he'll never be able to live up to that draft spot in that draft class, he's a Safety after all.

Lol, sometimes.  Other times, amazingly not (like right now, any conversation re: our WR group as an example).

"Jets Fans like me" are few and far between IMO.  

Not really true if the was or ends up being a difference maker safety then people will be happy with him but at this point he is a box safety who generated almost no turnovers and did not cover well.  You can draft a safety at 6 and have people happy with it but the guy had better be an awesome differene maker.  Adams was not that last year.  His personality just adds to it.

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