Josh Rosen: Ceiling/Floor

[Patriot Killa]

10 minutes ago, Paradis said:

what, that Ryan is average? 

He is. By average - keep in mind, we're talking about NFL QBs... so that's not too shabby. We should aspire much higher. Much higher. 

Ryan is not average and he is no Shaub. Think you really are over board with both comments.

[jgb]

Ceiling: Matt Ryan

Floor: Moonbeam from PCU

[bitonti]

Ceiling: Matt Ryan
Floor: Moonbeam from PCU

We're not going to protest!

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[RutgersJetFan]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

We're not going to protest!

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

I say we bring in Blotter.

[Untouchable]

I’d say Bradford is more of a realistic mid-ground for Rosen, not his floor.

If Bradford is healthy, he’s a Top 10 QB. Thus why he continually commands $20 million a year. Problem is, he’s hardly ever healthy.

Someone brought up Leinart as his floor earlier and I think that’s just about perfect.

 

[HessStation]

I'm going to lose my sh*t if/when they pass on Rosen even if it's for Mayfield. Even if it's for Darnold.

[Smashmouth]

14 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

rosen isn't better at everything.  his arm is nfl average, his mobility is probably below average, his durability is eh at best so far.  

in the end we're getting rosen or mayfield, so we'll have to be happy with the flaws of either.

every single prospect has a weakness ...very few come out without one (Elway and Luck come to mind). Peyton Manning was dreadfully slow and had bad footwork didn't stop him from being one of the best ever. Rosen's arm is not just NFL average its NFL above average as is Mayfields. Allen's arm may be the strongest in the NFL and Rosen and Mayfield are just a couple of notch's below Allen in arm strength.

[Smashmouth]

40 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I'm going to lose my sh*t if/when they pass on Rosen even if it's for Mayfield. Even if it's for Darnold.

Rosen is my first choice as well but i would not be unhappy if they Draft Mayfield

[rangerous]

so basically keep him clean and he'll succeed? maybe but the analysis is a little too simplistic to believe.  and if all it takes is a competent oline then he should be the number one pick.

imo as long as he keeps his head in the game and wants to play then he could be a really good qb.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

I’d say Bradford is more of a realistic mid-ground for Rosen, not his floor.

If Bradford is healthy, he’s a Top 10 QB. Thus why he continually commands $20 million a year. Problem is, he’s hardly ever healthy.

Someone brought up Leinart as his floor earlier and I think that’s just about perfect.

 

he might be leinart but from a different direction.  leinart was too much of a party boy who treated his job second. rosen? he just seems to not have the nfl as his no. 1 priority but he doesn't seem to be a party boy.

[jgb]

13 hours ago, varjet said:

Rosen is the ultimate challenge for Bowles and Co., both strategically and intellectually.

Not only will he be a questioning pain, but he really does not fit exactly into the offense that MacBowles has constructed.  They want their QBs a bit more mobile to make up for the lack of line, and to throw on the run.  MacBowlesBates will need to construct an offense around Rosen.  I think Mayfield fits into what they want to do with less work, but a much lower ceiling.

That is why MacBowles will jump at Mayfield!

Get this man a beer.

[Philc1]

Ceiling: Peyton Manning

Floor: AJ McCarron

 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, HessStation said:

I'm going to lose my sh*t if/when they pass on Rosen even if it's for Mayfield. Even if it's for Darnold.

Rosen is the 1 guy if we drafted I actually think next season we would make the playoffs with.  He fits our offense

[Sonny Werblin]

So, Rosen's ceiling is the guy with the most career passing yards and td's in NFL history? I've got his ceiling at Aaron Rodgers. i.e. a QB who wins games for you, but still needs some playmakers and a D to win a SB. 

[mrcoops]

Rosen

Ceiling: Eli Manning

Floor: Tim Couch

Adjusted Mean: Chad Pennington

Mayfield

Ceiling: Drew Brees

Floor: Cade McNown

Adjusted Mean: Tyrod Taylor

 

Darnold

Ceiling: Phillip Rivers

Floor: Matt Leinart

Adjusted Mean: Carson Palmer

Allen

Ceiling: Joe Flacco

Floor: Ryan Mallett

Adjusted Mean: Brock Osweiler

 

Jackson

Ceiling: Randall Cunningham

Floor: Akili Smith

Adjusted Mean: Jake Plummer

 

 

[Philc1]

18 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So, Rosen's ceiling is the guy with the most career passing yards and td's in NFL history? I've got his ceiling at Aaron Rodgers. i.e. a QB who wins games for you, but still needs some playmakers and a D to win a SB. 

Peyton Manning was able to make the playoffs with bad Colts teams but he couldn’t sniff the super bowl unless the D got coached up Dungy and he had Wayne and Marvin both in their primes

[greenwichjetfan]

17 hours ago, Paradis said:

Matt Ryan is the biggest scam I can remember outside of may Maybe Flynn. 

Matt has not once elevated his game or the put the team on his back. Michael Turner and Devonta Freeman have made that guy. He's Matt Schaub, with a few more bells and whistles. 

Agreed 100%. I’ve been arguing this since 2011 back on JI, and I have yet to be proven wrong. 

I love Rosen. I haven’t wanted a QB this badly since Carr. But to call his ceiling Peyton Manning is just throwing big names around. At least in my lifetime, I don’t think we’ll ever see another Peyton. I think he’ll be a more positively consistent Eli, and I’ll sign up for that every single day.

[JustInFudge]

17 hours ago, Paradis said:

Matt Ryan is the biggest scam I can remember outside of may Maybe Flynn. 

Matt has not once elevated his game or the put the team on his back. Michael Turner and Devonta Freeman have made that guy. He's Matt Schaub, with a few more bells and whistles. 

I dont love Matt Ryan.  When I make the comparison to Rosen, I just think they're the same dude.  Tall, decent athlete, flawless mechanics, good enough arm, smart, etc.  I think Rosen has bigger balls than Matty Ice.

But you're talking about a league MVP, an All-Pro, a OROY, 4 time probowler, 7 years of 4k and 20+, who should be a Super Bowl champ.  And his playoff run was damn near perfection.  We'd nut ourselves for a player like him and make him a legend for a performance like below in the playoffs:

Rk	Year	Date	G#	Age	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
6	2016	2017-01-14	17	31-242	ATL		SEA	W 36-20	*	26	37	70.27	338	3	0	125.7	3	15	9.14	10.76	3	-3	-1.00	0	0	0
7	2016	2017-01-22	18	31-250	ATL		GNB	W 44-21	*	27	38	71.05	392	4	0	139.4	0	0	10.32	12.42	3	23	7.67	1	1	6
8	2016	2017-02-05	19	31-264	ATL	N	NWE	L 28-34	*	17	23	73.91	284	2	0	144.1	5	44	12.35	14.09	0	0		0	0

[Stark]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I dont love Matt Ryan.  When I make the comparison to Rosen, I just think they're the same dude.  Tall, decent athlete, flawless mechanics, good enough arm, smart, etc.  I think Rosen has bigger balls than Matty Ice.

But you're talking about a league MVP, an All-Pro, a OROY, 4 time probowler, 7 years of 4k and 20+, who should be a Super Bowl champ.  And his playoff run was damn near perfection.  We'd nut ourselves for a player like him and make him a legend for a performance like below in the playoffs:

Rk	Year	Date	G#	Age	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
6	2016	2017-01-14	17	31-242	ATL		SEA	W 36-20	*	26	37	70.27	338	3	0	125.7	3	15	9.14	10.76	3	-3	-1.00	0	0	0
7	2016	2017-01-22	18	31-250	ATL		GNB	W 44-21	*	27	38	71.05	392	4	0	139.4	0	0	10.32	12.42	3	23	7.67	1	1	6
8	2016	2017-02-05	19	31-264	ATL	N	NWE	L 28-34	*	17	23	73.91	284	2	0	144.1	5	44	12.35	14.09	0	0		0	0

we'll said sir, well said.... 

If we pass on Rosen I will be pissed.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, Stark said:

we'll said sir, well said.... 

If we pass on Rosen I will be pissed.

You are going to be pissed

[Stark]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

You are going to be pissed

Probably. I usually am after we make our round 1 selection, its nothing new. 

[Pcola]

16 hours ago, varjet said:

Rosen is the ultimate challenge for Bowles and Co., both strategically and intellectually.

Not only will he be a questioning pain, but he really does not fit exactly into the offense that MacBowles has constructed.  They want their QBs a bit more mobile to make up for the lack of line, and to throw on the run.  MacBowlesBates will need to construct an offense around Rosen.  I think Mayfield fits into what they want to do with less work, but a much lower ceiling.

That is why MacBowles will jump at Mayfield!

This has some truth to it.  And that is exactly why Coaching staffs don’t get to make these type of decisions.  

Case in point, Trubisky’s head coach got fired after his rookie season.  Goff’s coach got fired during his rookie season.  Winston and Mariota boy had new head coaches after year 1.  How many coaches has Bortles had?  Luck?  Stafford?

This pick is going to be exponentially more important than a coaching staff that has lost 22 games in two years with zero playoffs in 3.

Allowing Bowles or Bates, an incredibly inexperienced OC determine who the best guy to draft would be the dumbest thing this organization could do, and that is saying a lot.

Sure they all have input.  But at the end of the day, this decision will come down to Macc and Chris Johnson.  

If Bowles can’t make it work, then the trend of rookie QBs getting head coaches fired will continue.

[Philc1]

Just now, Stark said:

Probably. I usually am after we make our round 1 selection, its nothing new. 

Usually we waste top draft picks on mediocre defensive players this time we are wasting a top pick on a mediocre  6 ft tall qb playing in the gimmick offense

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Usually we waste top draft picks on mediocre defensive players this time we are wasting a top pick on a mediocre  6 ft tall qb playing in the gimmick offense

But seriously, what do you think of Baker Mayfield?  I think everyone wants to know...  Break the silence already!

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

Ceiling: Matt Ryan

Floor: Moonbeam from PCU

Rosen should do an interview with the media where he says he loves Donald Trump and the hat was just a joke

[BCJet]

46 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Peyton Manning was able to make the playoffs with bad Colts teams but he couldn’t sniff the super bowl unless the D got coached up Dungy and he had Wayne and Marvin both in their primes

So let me see if I understand this thread.

1.  Matt Ryan who won an NFL MVP is an overrated player simply because he isnt as good as Brady or Rogers. How about better then phillip rivers?  What about Drew Brees, since Ryan has a better career winning % then brees does?  I completely understand that Ryan isnt a guy like rogers who can throw a 40 yard rope on a dime, but guess what...no one can do that.  Ryan is an elite QB and won an MVP with his no single WR having more then 6 tds, on a team that went to the SB.  And this is matt schaub?

2.  We are criticizing Peyton Manning for "not being able to sniff a SB without a good defense".  Is that a real statement.  Should these QBs win games when their defense cant stop anyone.  John Elway (TOP 10 ALL TIME) needed a running game to win a SB.  Aaron Rogers (TOP 10 ALL TIME) has only one SB because you need defense to help you win).  Are there guys who can win without defense or a running game?  How has Rothlisberger (a First ballot HOF) done the past few years with a bad defense - is that his fault?  Is he overrated?

You need 30+ guys playing well to win a SB, the QB is most important, but they dont do it alone.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Rosen should do an interview with the media where he says he loves Donald Trump and the hat was just a joke

That will help the knock that he's not authentic but only tries to be.

[HessStation]

4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Rosen is my first choice as well but i would not be unhappy if they Draft Mayfield

Same and Mayfield is my second choice I just feel that much better about Rosen tbh. I'd rather him just off the board then there. I'm expecting Mayfield to be the pick too fwiw. I'll be fine but that might be my initial reaction

[Bleedin Green]

20 minutes ago, Pcola said:

This has some truth to it.  And that is exactly why Coaching staffs don’t get to make these type of decisions.  

Case in point, Trubisky’s head coach got fired after his rookie season.  Goff’s coach got fired during his rookie season.  Winston and Mariota boy had new head coaches after year 1.  How many coaches has Bortles had?  Luck?  Stafford?

This pick is going to be exponentially more important than a coaching staff that has lost 22 games in two years with zero playoffs in 3.

Allowing Bowles or Bates, an incredibly inexperienced OC determine who the best guy to draft would be the dumbest thing this organization could do, and that is saying a lot.

Sure they all have input.  But at the end of the day, this decision will come down to Macc and Chris Johnson.  

If Bowles can’t make it work, then the trend of rookie QBs getting head coaches fired will continue.

While I definitely agree with your points on this, in regards to the bold, I would be surprised if Bates isn't having a very serious voice in this, more than Bowles.  Whether it's truly deserved or not, it's pretty well known that Bates is considered a top QB savant in league circles and is obviously well regarded within the Jets.  If Macc shares that opinion, he won't hesitate to use Bates to help save his own ass.  Whether it's a good idea is a different story, and I don't think he'll be having any final say, but there's a good chance if he is strongly in favor of some and opposed to others, it'll have an impact.

[BCJet]

5 hours ago, rangerous said:

he might be leinart but from a different direction.  leinart was too much of a party boy who treated his job second. rosen? he just seems to not have the nfl as his no. 1 priority but he doesn't seem to be a party boy.

What justification do you have for saying football isnt Rosen's number one priority.  Its an 80+hour per week job, just because when he goes home at night he might want to read a book or in the offseason he chooses to do charity work instead of going hunting does that mean he doesnt care about football.

Rosen is smart and all he has done is say that he understands that his football life is finite and he hopes to be able to do something impactful with his life when he is done playing.  The coach who was quoted as saying he is worried that rosen could tweet about politics during a playoff race is an idiot.  You should tweet about something like that, because of the perception and how the media can turn it into something it isnt.  But to think your players dont leave the facility and have other thoughts running through their head is simply the same mindset that thinks because Rosen asks "why" a team sets a protection a certain way he is difficult.  He might just want to learn the intricacies of the position, which happens to be a good thing.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Peyton Manning was able to make the playoffs with bad Colts teams but he couldn’t sniff the super bowl unless the D got coached up Dungy and he had Wayne and Marvin both in their primes

The cover 2 D with two premiere edge rushers was put in place because of Peyton. It was built to protect the 2d half leads provided by Peyton. 

And Peyton made every WR he had look better than they really we're. Just like Tom Brady.

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, BCJet said:

So let me see if I understand this thread.

1.  Matt Ryan who won an NFL MVP is an overrated player simply because he isnt as good as Brady or Rogers. How about better then phillip rivers?  What about Drew Brees, since Ryan has a better career winning % then brees does?  I completely understand that Ryan isnt a guy like rogers who can throw a 40 yard rope on a dime, but guess what...no one can do that.  Ryan is an elite QB and won an MVP with his no single WR having more then 6 tds, on a team that went to the SB.  And this is matt schaub?

2.  We are criticizing Peyton Manning for "not being able to sniff a SB without a good defense".  Is that a real statement.  Should these QBs win games when their defense cant stop anyone.  John Elway (TOP 10 ALL TIME) needed a running game to win a SB.  Aaron Rogers (TOP 10 ALL TIME) has only one SB because you need defense to help you win).  Are there guys who can win without defense or a running game?  How has Rothlisberger (a First ballot HOF) done the past few years with a bad defense - is that his fault?  Is he overrated?

You need 30+ guys playing well to win a SB, the QB is most important, but they dont do it alone.

I actually never said anything negative about Peyton.  The Baker Mayfield fanclub got offended that I said Rosen’s ceiling could be Manning

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

That will help the knock that he's not authentic but only tries to be.

Jets fans shouldn’t pay for a tv commercial where a CGI Rosen wears a MAGA hat and talks about how much he loves President Trump.  Woody and Chrissy will think it’s the real Josh Rosen and allow Macagnan to draft him

[MDL_JET]

 

Thread on why Rosen isn't as good as we all think...

[Paradis]

9 hours ago, JiF said:

I dont love Matt Ryan.  When I make the comparison to Rosen, I just think they're the same dude.  Tall, decent athlete, flawless mechanics, good enough arm, smart, etc.  I think Rosen has bigger balls than Matty Ice.

But you're talking about a league MVP, an All-Pro, a OROY, 4 time probowler, 7 years of 4k and 20+, who should be a Super Bowl champ.  And his playoff run was damn near perfection.  We'd nut ourselves for a player like him and make him a legend for a performance like below in the playoffs:

Rk	Year	Date	G#	Age	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
6	2016	2017-01-14	17	31-242	ATL		SEA	W 36-20	*	26	37	70.27	338	3	0	125.7	3	15	9.14	10.76	3	-3	-1.00	0	0	0
7	2016	2017-01-22	18	31-250	ATL		GNB	W 44-21	*	27	38	71.05	392	4	0	139.4	0	0	10.32	12.42	3	23	7.67	1	1	6
8	2016	2017-02-05	19	31-264	ATL	N	NWE	L 28-34	*	17	23	73.91	284	2	0	144.1	5	44	12.35	14.09	0	0		0	0

Kirk Cousins all over again. 

Again - not saying he's trash, but he and the Falcons have only really be GOOD twice... both times on the heels of an extremely effective running game. In between are long stretches of "meh"... not bad, effective. he can execute, but moments of brilliance have been flashy. That's just the way i see it