Jets 5th worst to agents

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Listen, slappy.

I’m just waiting for a single one of you to give me a single credible  explanation as to what the hell this even means or why any of us should even give a flying rats assh0le either way.

If agents are walking into Macc’s office and he’s jerking off to Xhamster with one hand, playing paddle ball with the other while cranking music and shouting obscenities...then yes, he’s “unprepared” for the task at hand.

We’re paying Josh McCown $10 million this season

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

We’re paying Josh McCown $10 million this season

The Cardinals are paying Sam Bradford $20 million.

The 49ers are paying Garoppolo, who has started a total of 7 games in his career, $37 million this season.

QB’s make batsh*t crazy money these days. Doesn’t matter if they aren’t true “franchise” guys. Not sure why some can’t come to grips with that.

The smartest play for the Jets all along if they ended up missing out on Cousins was to bring back McCown for another year and take a QB at the top of the draft. Is McCown worth $10 million a year? No, but I always expected they would have to give him more than they did last season after he had a career year and before he was injured, still had the team in the middle of the playoff hunt when no one thought they would win but maybe 1 or 2 games all season.

[dbatesman]

Just now, Untouchable said:

The Cardinals are paying Sam Bradford $20 million.

The 49ers are paying Garoppolo, who has started a total of 7 games in his career, $37 million this season.

QB’s make batsh*t crazy money these days. Doesn’t matter if they aren’t true “franchise” guys. Not sure why some can’t come to grips with that.

The smartest play for the Jets all along if they ended up missing out on Cousins was to bring back McCown for another year and take a QB at the top of the draft. Is McCown worth $10 million a year? No, but I always expected they would have to give him more than they did last season after he had a career year and before he was injured, still had the team in the middle of the playoff hunt when no one thought they would win but maybe 1 or 2 games all season.

Plus McCown was asking for $50 million originally, but Macc showed up to the negotiations "unprepared" 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

still had the team in the middle of the playoff hunt when no one thought they would win but maybe 1 or 2 games all season.

also: lmfao

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Plus McCown was asking for $50 million originally, but Macc showed up to the negotiations "unprepared" 

I don’t think McCown would’ve gotten the $10 million anywhere else, but it’s not like he didn’t have other suitors.

He was slated to visit Arizona and Denver before re-upping with the Jets.

I don’t think it’s extreme to think those teams would’ve offered something in the $6-8 million per range, essentially what the Jets paid him last year.

[dbatesman]

Just now, Untouchable said:

I don’t think it’s extreme to think those teams would’ve offered something in the $6-8 million per range, essentially what the Jets paid him last year.

And we got him for just $10 million? I can see why agents hate this guy, he's a real rainmaker

[Larz]

Not being prepared hurts you on day 1, but if the player wants to be here the agent gets it done. 

The Jets will have a hard time recruiting until they establish a QB that can win 

Not being trusted is much worse. That's the list you don't want to be on 

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, freestater said:

The agents' agenda is diametrically opposed to the agenda of an NFL gm

This.

I like seeing the Jets on this list.  I think Macc has been prepared.  By most accounts he has managed the QB pursuit properly this year by taking a big swing at Cousins and then quickly (March 17) pivoting to Plan B.  As for "not being prepared" I call BS.  Just because the Jets didn't offer Demario Davis and ASJ what their agents were looking for doesn't mean the Jets weren't prepared.  They simply had a number in mind for those guys.

To me, this sounds like a bunch of agents who saw a giant pile of salary cap cash sitting with the Jets and were disappointed they couldn't get it or couldn't squeeze out an extra $1 Million for their clients.  Just because ASJ Made $10M and the Jets apparently offered about $8M doesn't mean the Jets weren't prepared for negotiations or didn't understand the market.....they did.

[BurnleyJet]

Upsetting Agents is a bad thing now? - I don't believe the BS about Bill Belichick, the Pats don't pay any one well, not over the table any way.

 

[derp]

I kind of get this sense. Maccagnan strikes me as very value driven. He wants this guy at this price and is comfortable walking away from the table. Not set to negotiate, no anticipation of what the player wants and a level of give and take. Just hey, this is the deal I'm offering, take it or leave it.

But then sometimes it's a guy he really wants, they turn it down, and this isn't going to work out. Then he scrambles and overpays.

I think you see this pretty consistently across the board in both signings and trades. Either he's able to get a nice deal - Claiborne the last couple of years, Bridgewater, Pryor, Marshall trade, Davis-Pryor trade...or he gets totally hosed because it's obvious he's desperate he wants something to happen and loses all leverage - Wilkerson and Fitzpatrick holdouts, Johnson signing, Colts trade this year, etc.

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

So what does being unprepared in a contract negotiation mean?

Enlighten me

Is he digging up his ass when they come to the table?

Is he f*cking around playing solitaire when they’re hammering out the specifics?

Or does he set a bottom line and tell you to go f*ck yourself if you want exponentially more?

I’d probably bet on the latter

Prepared in a contract negotiation means, primarily:

1) Having your due diligence done (in the NFL context, = knowing, inside and out, how the player will fit in your system and his medicals and stats);

2) Knowing your market and comps (be prepared to discuss why you are offering MLB Smith $X when MLB Jones makes $1.5X, and don't be like the fantasy football GM who offers to trade Bilal Powell for Zeke Elliott)

3) Knowing your counterparty (what issues are really important to them, that you can leverage into a concession on an area that's important to you).

No idea how Mac does in his negotiations, but those would be the primary aspects of "preparation" that I can think of

[jetstream23]

33 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t think McCown would’ve gotten the $10 million anywhere else, but it’s not like he didn’t have other suitors.

He was slated to visit Arizona and Denver before re-upping with the Jets.

I don’t think it’s extreme to think those teams would’ve offered something in the $6-8 million per range, essentially what the Jets paid him last year.

Given some of the coaching structure around this team (cough) Todd Bowles (cough) I'm glad we overpaid McCown by a few million to be a mentor, on-field coach and locker room ear whisperer for whatever rookie we bring it.  I read that SI article about Mayfield and him never having a guy ahead of him to watch or look up to, never having seen how the starting QB ahead of him handles tough situations, answers media questions, etc.  The Jets have a lot of Cap space, I'm 100% fine overpaying a guy like McCown to help bring along a rookie QB for 12 months.  It could be one of the most important investments we make.

[Doggin94it]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Given some of the coaching structure around this team (cough) Todd Bowles (cough) I'm glad we overpaid McCown by a few million to be a mentor, on-field coach and locker room ear whisperer for whatever rookie we bring it.  I read that SI article about Mayfield and him never having a guy ahead of him to watch or look up to, never having seen how the starting QB ahead of him handles tough situations, answers media questions, etc.  The Jets have a lot of Cap space, I'm 100% fine overpaying a guy like McCown to help bring along a rookie QB for 12 months.  It could be one of the most important investments we make.

Agreed. 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

here I was thinking the guy who traded a 5th round pick for Brandon Marshall 

Are you implying that a 5th round pick for Marshall was a bad deal?

[mphtrilogy]

I would love SF if I were agent, the contract they gave McKinnon was insane

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Are you implying that a 5th round pick for Marshall was a bad deal?

Yes

[slimjasi]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Yes

Sublime silliness. 

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Sublime silliness. 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

A second bucket?  What foresight!

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Sure, but what does that even mean?

That Macc doesn’t come in to a negotiation ready to roll over and meet a players demands?

That he initially throws out a lowball offer?

That sounds like Negotiating 101 to me. 

least prepared to give in to ridiculous agent demands?

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

No! and thankfully they did. Technically Mcc isn't negotiating. Jackie Davidson is..

And this isn't new...If you notice most of the contracts under Mcc's regime have an out after one or two yrs with little cap consequences. So in essence the agent will have to get his client a new contract again in one or two yrs..i.e. Cro, Mo, Revis, etc..

 

First of all, this isn't true. What you mean to say is they had only 1-2 years of guaranteed money (except for Revis; he had significant guarantees into year 3).

The truth is the consequences were significant: they prevented the signing (or re-signing) of others instead of the stiffs he signed, since the $ used this year is unavailable in the future, whether or not there's also current/future "dead cap" after the players get cut. When the team signed Cro, Revis, Fitz, Harris, etc. they ate up the space that could and should have gone towards better players with an actual future longer than 1-2 years.

I'm amazed people still try to rationalize the ridiculous, much-repeated, "Big Macc shrewdly allowed us to get out after only 1-2 years" curve-grading, as though this is at all uncommon. Only the few best of the best players in the NFL - and typically just FQBs at that - get more than 1-2 years guaranteed. Why the insistence on praising Macc for something that is totally ordinary? Everyone does this same thing with >99% of NFL FA contracts.

Plus while correct about Davidson (as I've brought up many times), I noticed your immediate sleight of hand to credit "Macc's regime," rather than specifically crediting Davidson, when you deem the contract negotiations/results praiseworthy. Effectively, the only half-decent part of the FA signings - the ability to get out of them quickly - is the part that is delegated away from Maccagnan. 

Plus there's the elephant in the room: if the FAs he selected were worth a damn people wouldn't harp on about getting out from under them after only 1-2 years. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

yeah... if you want the other side of the negotiating table to die of old age before Sperm finishes his first paragraph.

Just finished.

[slimjasi]

Just now, dbatesman said:

 

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

[C Mart]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

First of all, this isn't true. What you mean to say is they had only 1-2 years of guaranteed money (except for Revis; he had significant guarantees into year 3).

The truth is the consequences were significant: they prevented the signing (or re-signing) of others instead of the stiffs he signed, since the $ used this year is unavailable in the future, whether or not there's also current/future "dead cap" after the players get cut. When the team signed Cro, Revis, Fitz, Harris, etc. they ate up the space that could and should have gone towards better players with an actual future longer than 1-2 years.

I'm amazed people still try to rationalize the ridiculous, much-repeated, "Big Macc shrewdly allowed us to get out after only 1-2 years" curve-grading, as though this is at all uncommon. Only the few best of the best players in the NFL - and typically just FQBs at that - get more than 1-2 years guaranteed. Why the insistence on praising Macc for something that is totally ordinary? Everyone does this same thing with >99% of NFL FA contracts.

Plus while correct about Davidson (as I've brought up many times), I noticed your immediate sleight of hand to credit "Macc's regime," rather than specifically crediting Davidson, when you deem the contract negotiations/results praiseworthy. Effectively, the only half-decent part of the FA signings - the ability to get out of them quickly - is the part that is delegated away from Maccagnan. 

Plus there's the elephant in the room: if the FAs he selected were worth a damn people wouldn't harp on about getting out from under them after only 1-2 years. 

my head hurts..It wasn't meant to sleight or praise either..My apologies if it took you there  

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Sure, but what does that even mean?

That Macc doesn’t come in to a negotiation ready to roll over and meet a players demands?

That he initially throws out a lowball offer?

That sounds like Negotiating 101 to me. 

I'm quite sure you'd feel it meant something praiseworthy if the Jets were listed in the top 5 most prepared. Since the Jets are bottom 5, it becomes, "Sure, but what does that even mean?"

It quite surely does not merely mean: least-prepared = because Macc throws out an initial lowball offer. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

my head hurts..It wasn't meant to sleight or praise either..My apologies if it took you there  

No need to apologize. I just like to complain by using as many words as humanly possible.

[section314]

I'm pissed we weren't #1 .

[Untouchable]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm quite sure you'd feel it meant something praiseworthy if the Jets were listed in the top 5 most prepared. Since the Jets are bottom 5, it becomes, "Sure, but what does that even mean?"

It quite surely does not merely mean: least-prepared = because Macc throws out an initial lowball offer. 

So in other words, no one knows what the hell it means.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

So in other words, no one knows what the hell it means.

No. In other words everyone knows what it means as a generality, in that it is decidedly unflattering. 

[C Mart]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

here I was thinking the guy who traded a 5th round pick for Brandon Marshall and paid Ryan Fitzpatrick $12 million for one season was a genius dealmaker

Chicago BearsVerified account

@ChicagoBears

Here's trade compensation: #Bears receive 5th-round pick from Jets for Marshall and 7th-round choice.

5:17 PM - Mar 10, 2015

[dbatesman]

Just now, C Mart said:

Chicago BearsVerified account

@ChicagoBears

Here's trade compensation: #Bears receive 5th-round pick from Jets for Marshall and 7th-round choice.

oh snap

[UnitedWhofans]

What did the Bears end up using that 5th on?

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

What did the Bears end up using that 5th on?

Adrian Amos, who was PFF's 2nd-ranked safety last season.

[Gas2No99]

3 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Why would anyone want the Jets/Macc to rank near the top?

I want a shrewd bastard to deal with these misers.

And it’s no surprise to see the 49ers at the top with the nutty deals they gave to Garoppolo, McKinnon, Richburg, etc.

The GM is a former player in Lynch.

I could see him being a bit more compassionate in player negotiations than a former economist who earned his bones as a scout writing up player reports, smelling of his car & fast food flatulence, while chugging Starbucks like it's water 17 hours of every day. 

[detectivekimble]

10 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Tannenbaum is the second-least trusted. Damn....

No surprise.  He's been known to lie to players.  What he did to Pete Kendall was a disgrace.