Josh Allen to the Jets per Josh Allen

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

And the anti-Allen fan club doesn't do the same?

They think any qb above 6’2 with athleticism now = Hackenberg 

[Lupz27]

2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

How much relief would it be if the Browns take Mayfield at 1? I’d be able to fully relax after that. 

Just do it Dorsey. You know you wanna. 

Fixed 

[Grandy]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

They think any qb above 6’2 with athleticism now = Hackenberg 

No, just QBs that couldn't hit Water if they fell out of a boat. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

8 hours ago, Dcat said:

No, they don't.  Not like Phil.  Even the other anti-Mayfield posters don't do what he does.  It's not that he's "anti-Mayfield"  It's that he adds NOTHING new each time he posts.  He purposely wastes everyone's time just so he can hear the sound of his own voice bouncing around somewhere in that empty head of his.  I'd say the same thing if he constantly repeated himself about any of the others.  

So what new material is being added when they talk about Allen's production (completion percentage)? Absolutely nothing. The same spoof that you can dig up from last month.

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

How much relief would it be if the Browns take Allen at 1? I’d be able to fully relax after that. 

Just do it Dorsey. You know you wanna. 

Would you still be relieved if Allen turns out to be the best QB of the bunch? I don't know how some of you are acting as if you have a crystal ball and know for certain whether a kid like Allen will be good or not. It's like you all  you guys can see is the next Hackenberg even though they are completely differently players with completely different talent levels.  

[FidelioJet]

Would you still be relieved if Allen turns out to be the best QB of the bunch? I don't know how some of you are acting as if you have a crystal ball and know for certain whether a kid like Allen will be good or not. It's like you all  you guys can see is the next Hackenberg even though they are completely differently players with completely different talent levels.  

No, what they’ll say is The Jets wouldn’t have been able to develop him. As a Jet he would have been bad.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetster]

On 4/20/2018 at 5:15 PM, legler82 said:

IMO the approach GMs/scouts should take towards the draft is to, first and foremost, apply a grade strictly based on talent, as that should hold the most weight.  Next start adding and deducting points based on intangibles, or lack there of.  Once all that is done, FINALLY, you factor in production.  Is it reconcilable, underwhelming, inflated...etc considering ALL factors, (i.e., surrounding talent, scheme, coaching...etc.).

Using the criteria I've outline, Allen should be the top pick.  If one prefers the collegiate lifetime achievement model, then Mayfield is your pick.  You should NEVER start with production.  The intention should be to find the best future NFL players not reward the best college football players.  It's NOT the Heisman trophy nomination process.  

 

Exactly...weren't Geno Smiths college number off the chart in regard to TDs vs Interceptions?

[LAD_Brooklyn]

36 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Exactly...weren't Geno Smiths college number off the chart in regard to TDs vs Interceptions?

Geno Smith

Jr: 4,300 yards, 31 TDs, 7 interception, 65%

Sr: 4,200 yards, 46 TDs, 6 interception,  71%

Pryce Petty

Jr: 4,000 yards, 32 TDs, 3 interception, 62%

Sr: 3,800 yards, 28 TDs, 7 interception,  63%

[burkett2112]

40 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Geno Smith

Jr: 4,300 yards, 31 TDs, 7 interception, 65%

Sr: 4,200 yards, 46 TDs, 6 interception,  71%

Pryce Petty

Jr: 4,000 yards, 32 TDs, 3 interception, 62%

Sr: 3,800 yards, 28 TDs, 7 interception,  63%

Ahhhh.... I've finally got to the bottom of it. So let's just clarify. The drafting of QBs has ALWAYS been a crapshoot. This draft in particular is incredibly volatile which is why our front office has continued to prove how incompetent it is by trading up to 3 in hopes of getting no quarterback in particular just whichever happens to fall to them.

And yes. There are plenty of QBs who've had phenomenal college careers who have failed in the NFL. But I'm going to repeat this one last time. There has not been a QB in 20 years who's had Allen's production or lack there of who's been successful. You can tell me to "look at the tape" all you want.

You havent seen any tape. You likely watched a YouTube highlight video. If you watched his "tape" youd have seen games like he had against Nebraska, and Oregon and Iowa. Where he put in performances that no quality NFL QB has likely ever had in their entire life.

Does he have the tools to make incredible throws? Absolutely. There's a reason hes 22 years old and he hasn't managed to put it together yet. There's one thing that fans who don't know a single thing about football and scouts and coaches at this level have in common. NFL qb coaches don't walk on water despite what both of these parties may think. They aren't going to take a grown man who couldn't be productive at a mid level D1 football program and make him a superstar in the NFL. It will not happen.

Let's counter your final argument in advance. His supporting cast. How is it if his supporting cast was so bad he had the lowest pass drop percentage of the top 4 QBs? How is it that Ben Rothlisberger managed to put up ungodly numbers and win 13 games and finish in the top 10 at Miami of Ohio? How is it possible that Derek Carr won 11 games and threw 50 TDs at Fresno State his final season?

Jimmy Goroppolo and Carson Wentz were so overlooked and under recruited in HS they had to play 1-AA. Probably be a good story for the Allen backers if Jimmy G didnt throw for 85 touchdowns between his junior and senior year, take his team on deep playoff runs and get named national player of the year. Or that Carson Wentz completed 65 percent of his passes in a run focused offense and won multiple national titles at North Dakota state.

Guys dont start putting it together at the NFL level. It does not happen, it will not happen. I challenge you. Look at every top NFL QB right now and find me one who has a story even mildly similar to Josh Allen. Lightly recruited out of high school, didnt play at a big time program, didn't win in college, mid 50s completion percentage, low TD production. 

Are there more productive QBs in this draft who will fail and others in the past who have? 100 percent. Are there any like Josh Allen who have succeeded is the real question. The answer is no, and Josh Allen ain't breaking any molds. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Geno Smith

Jr: 4,300 yards, 31 TDs, 7 interception, 65%

Sr: 4,200 yards, 46 TDs, 6 interception,  71%

Pryce Petty

Jr: 4,000 yards, 32 TDs, 3 interception, 62%

Sr: 3,800 yards, 28 TDs, 7 interception,  63%

Except Mayfield had way more responsibility than dumping it off to Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin.

P.S Baker looked very good for 98% of his game against a real NFL style defense in Georgia.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Except Mayfield had way more responsibility than dumping it off to Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin.

P.S Baker looked very good for 98% of his game against a real NFL style defense in Georgia.

None of this is accurate.  

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

None of this is accurate.  

But Baker is.

 

BOOM.

 

No, seriously all of this is accurate. Hate if you want but the facts are there.

[MDL_JET]

9 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Would you still be relieved if Allen turns out to be the best QB of the bunch? I don't know how some of you are acting as if you have a crystal ball and know for certain whether a kid like Allen will be good or not. It's like you all  you guys can see is the next Hackenberg even though they are completely differently players with completely different talent levels.  

No, what would I care? I just trust the other QBs a lot more to turn successful then I do Allen. I don't think he's Hack in any way, I just think it's gonna be a rough ride if he ends up being the pick.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

58 minutes ago, burkett2112 said:

And yes. There are plenty of QBs who've had phenomenal college careers who have failed in the NFL. But I'm going to repeat this one last time. There has not been a QB in 20 years who's had Allen's production or lack there of who's been successful. You can tell me to "look at the tape" all you want.

Josh Allen produce 3,200 yards, 28 TDs, 15 Ints his Sophomore year along with leading Wyoming to their first bowl games in several years. I know your going by what have you done lately drift. But what has changed from last year to this season? His top three receiving candidates graduated and Wyoming couldn't transition.

58 minutes ago, burkett2112 said:

You havent seen any tape. You likely watched a YouTube highlight video. If you watched his "tape" youd have seen games like he had against Nebraska, and Oregon and Iowa. Where he put in performances that no quality NFL QB has likely ever had in their entire life.

Who the hell are you to indicated I haven't watch any tape? Please I've seen, UNLV, Boise State, Central Michigan, Nebraska, Hawaii, Colorado  St., New Mexico, BYU, Neveda, Webb, Iowa, Texas State and more. You seen the Oregon game, where? Please send a link.

58 minutes ago, burkett2112 said:

Does he have the tools to make incredible throws? Absolutely. There's a reason hes 22 years old and he hasn't managed to put it together yet. There's one thing that fans who don't know a single thing about football and scouts and coaches at this level have in common. NFL qb coaches don't walk on water despite what both of these parties may think. They aren't going to take a grown man who couldn't be productive at a mid level D1 football program and make him a superstar in the NFL. It will not happen.

Let's counter your final argument in advance. His supporting cast. How is it if his supporting cast was so bad he had the lowest pass drop percentage of the top 4 QBs? How is it that Ben Rothlisberger managed to put up ungodly numbers and win 13 games and finish in the top 10 at Miami of Ohio? How is it possible that Derek Carr won 11 games and threw 50 TDs at Fresno State his final season?

Jimmy Goroppolo and Carson Wentz were so overlooked and under recruited in HS they had to play 1-AA. Probably be a good story for the Allen backers if Jimmy G didnt throw for 85 touchdowns between his junior and senior year, take his team on deep playoff runs and get named national player of the year. Or that Carson Wentz completed 65 percent of his passes in a run focused offense and won multiple national titles at North Dakota state.

Carson Wentz team was great before him and after him, so what's really your point. They go deep into the playoffs every season. My collegiate team.

To end this post, what does this have to do with Geno Smith's stats?

[burkett2112]

2 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Josh Allen produce 3,200 yards, 28 TDs, 15 Ints his Sophomore year along with leading Wyoming to their first bowl games in several years. I know your going by what have you done lately drift. But what has changed from last year to this season? His top three receiving candidates graduated and Wyoming couldn't transition.

Who the hell are you to indicated I haven't watch any tape? Please I've seen, UNLV, Boise State, Central Michigan, Nebraska, Hawaii, Colorado  St., New Mexico, BYU, Neveda, Webb, Iowa, Texas State and more. You seen the Oregon game, where? Please send a link.

Carson Wentz team was great before him and after him, so what's really your point. They go deep into the playoffs every season. My collegiate team.

To end this post, what does this have to do with Geno Smith's stats?

What it has to do with Geno Smith's stats is you were replying to a guy who was making the idiotic argument that a guy had great numbers in college and didnt work out, therefore it means nothing if a guy has no numbers.

The fact that the absolute best Josh Allen season involves 15 interceptions in a 12 game season with a mid 50s completion percentage should tell you all you need to know.

You keep using the word "tape". I'm not sure it means what you think it means.

His top receiving candidates left. That's certainly a unique scenario that never happens to any other QB prospect. ? what do you think your boy would do with the motley crew of wideouts we have now?

I'll tell you what's fun about Josh Allen. Normally when you're talking about a top QB prospect you need to get past the tremendous stats and accolades and try to find holes in their game. With Allen you're trying to ignore the obvious giant craters in his game and trying to find bright spots

[LAD_Brooklyn]

38 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Except Mayfield had way more responsibility than dumping it off to Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin.

P.S Baker looked very good for 98% of his game against a real NFL style defense in Georgia.

How did Mayfield jump into this convo? Is that who you and @Jetster were going back and forth about?

Just to jump in are you discrediting Marquise Brown? Dude was a top 10 ranked receiver coming out of HS. You say this as if OU were lacking talent as good as Austin and Steadley when they get a recruit just as good on the regular in every class.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

4 minutes ago, burkett2112 said:

What it has to do with Geno Smith's stats is you were replying to a guy who was making the idiotic argument that a guy had great numbers in college and didnt work out, therefore it means nothing if a guy has no numbers.

The fact that the absolute best Josh Allen season involves 15 interceptions in a 12 game season with a mid 50s completion percentage should tell you all you need to know.

You keep using the word "tape". I'm not sure it means what you think it means.

His top receiving candidates left. That's certainly a unique scenario that never happens to any other QB prospect. ? what do you think your boy would do with the motley crew of wideouts we have now?

I'll tell you what's fun about Josh Allen. Normally when you're talking about a top QB prospect you need to get past the tremendous stats and accolades and try to find holes in their game. With Allen you're trying to ignore the obvious giant craters in his game and trying to find bright spots

So you feel Allen would bust?! Got you. But can you admit you were speaking out of your ass in regards to how many games you think I've watched lol. But pat on the back from watching three games. That's more then many probably.

[burkett2112]

10 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

So you feel Allen would bust?! Got you. But can you admit you were speaking out of your ass in regards to how many games you think I've watched lol. But pat on the back from watching three games. That's more then many probably.

You still dont seem to get it. I was making fun of you because you kept saying "tape". You're watching TV telecast replays on YouTube. Do you believe that's what coaches and scouts are referring to when they say tape?

Allen is such a project in today's NFL he almost guarantees to bust. If I was the Patriots or Packers I'd draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round and sit him behind Rodgers or Brady for 3 years at least. To go to a team where hes going to play right away I think will result in an all time disaster.

His footwork, his decision making, his lazy mechanics need so much time to fix and that's assuming they could be fixed. Normally someone gets to this age you can make improvements but a complete change in style is so rare.

[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

How did Mayfield jump into this convo? Is that who you and @Jetster were going back and forth about?

Just to jump in are you discrediting Marquise Brown? Dude was a top 10 ranked receiver coming out of HS. You say this as if OU were lacking talent as good as Austin and Steadley when they get a recruit just as good on the regular in every class.

Naw I wasn’t discrediting anyone. Just mentioning that he had way more responsibility in OK’s success and numbers.

[Grandy]

Josh Allen had a 50% cmp, threw 8 picks with only 1 TD against power 5 teams.

....but he'll be great against NFL defenses, right?

[LAD_Brooklyn]

16 minutes ago, burkett2112 said:

You still dont seem to get it. I was making fun of you because you kept saying "tape". You're watching TV telecast replays on YouTube. Do you believe that's what coaches and scouts are referring to when they say tape?

Allen is such a project in today's NFL he almost guarantees to bust. If I was the Patriots or Packers I'd draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round and sit him behind Rodgers or Brady for 3 years at least. To go to a team where hes going to play right away I think will result in an all time disaster.

His footwork, his decision making, his lazy mechanics need so much time to fix and that's assuming they could be fixed. Normally someone gets to this age you can make improvements but a complete change in style is so rare.

You still dont seem to get it. I was making fun of you because you kept saying "tape".

Oh, so I guess no one got the joke.

Do you believe that's what coaches and scouts are referring to when they say tape?

Huh, they're definitely talking about the All-22 look. C'mon dont tell you you weren't aware of this. 

Allen is such a project in today's NFL he almost guarantees to bust.

 Cool story

To go to a team where hes going to play right away

Only the Bills need a day one starter. All the other teams have the luxury to run out there with a proven vet.

His footwork, his decision making, his lazy mechanics need so much time to fix and that's assuming they could be fixed.

Never heard about his mechanics being the problem but definitely his footwork especially under pressure. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

So you feel Allen would bust?! Got you. But can you admit you were speaking out of your ass in regards to how many games you think I've watched lol. But pat on the back from watching three games. That's more then many probably.

Just curious. If the jets pick mayfield will you A) stop liking the jets and just follow josh Allen’s team ?

B ) stay a jets fan but grip and complain every week if mayfield misses a throw

C) give him a chance and be a happy jets fan if he becomes a very good nfl qb

 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

14 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Just curious. If the jets pick mayfield will you A) stop liking the jets and just follow josh Allen’s team ?

B ) stay a jets fan but grip and complain every week if mayfield misses a throw

C) give him a chance and be a happy jets fan if he becomes a very good nfl qb

 

Why the hell would I like Josh Allen's team? I'm not a Josh Allen fan, I'm a fan of him being in a Jets uniform. If they picked Mayfield, then it's obvious they feel hes the best QB for this system and the big stage. 

Now I'm curious to know what was your issue with my post? Very random.

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, burkett2112 said:

Ahhhh.... I've finally got to the bottom of it. So let's just clarify. The drafting of QBs has ALWAYS been a crapshoot. This draft in particular is incredibly volatile which is why our front office has continued to prove how incompetent it is by trading up to 3 in hopes of getting no quarterback in particular just whichever happens to fall to them.

And yes. There are plenty of QBs who've had phenomenal college careers who have failed in the NFL. But I'm going to repeat this one last time. There has not been a QB in 20 years who's had Allen's production or lack there of who's been successful. You can tell me to "look at the tape" all you want.

You havent seen any tape. You likely watched a YouTube highlight video. If you watched his "tape" youd have seen games like he had against Nebraska, and Oregon and Iowa. Where he put in performances that no quality NFL QB has likely ever had in their entire life.

Does he have the tools to make incredible throws? Absolutely. There's a reason hes 22 years old and he hasn't managed to put it together yet. There's one thing that fans who don't know a single thing about football and scouts and coaches at this level have in common. NFL qb coaches don't walk on water despite what both of these parties may think. They aren't going to take a grown man who couldn't be productive at a mid level D1 football program and make him a superstar in the NFL. It will not happen.

Let's counter your final argument in advance. His supporting cast. How is it if his supporting cast was so bad he had the lowest pass drop percentage of the top 4 QBs? How is it that Ben Rothlisberger managed to put up ungodly numbers and win 13 games and finish in the top 10 at Miami of Ohio? How is it possible that Derek Carr won 11 games and threw 50 TDs at Fresno State his final season?

Jimmy Goroppolo and Carson Wentz were so overlooked and under recruited in HS they had to play 1-AA. Probably be a good story for the Allen backers if Jimmy G didnt throw for 85 touchdowns between his junior and senior year, take his team on deep playoff runs and get named national player of the year. Or that Carson Wentz completed 65 percent of his passes in a run focused offense and won multiple national titles at North Dakota state.

Guys dont start putting it together at the NFL level. It does not happen, it will not happen. I challenge you. Look at every top NFL QB right now and find me one who has a story even mildly similar to Josh Allen. Lightly recruited out of high school, didnt play at a big time program, didn't win in college, mid 50s completion percentage, low TD production. 

Are there more productive QBs in this draft who will fail and others in the past who have? 100 percent. Are there any like Josh Allen who have succeeded is the real question. The answer is no, and Josh Allen ain't breaking any molds. 

I'd temper all that by saying that WYO has no business playing the likes of NE, IA and OR (actually, it's 'all' business to the tune of like $3 mill/season to keep their program viable).  When a QB on a team with inferior talent doesn't put up good numbers, it's not always on him alone.

I get it though...Allen is a long shot, but by no means is he Hackenberg and he has played in a pseudo-NFL scheme under center.

But to assume Mayfield is more of a 'sure thing', I just say that he reminds me very much of another college QB that put up gaudy numbers in a  spread system and is of a similar physical stature...Chase Daniel from Mizzou who actually garnered some votes for the Heisman like 10 yrs ago.

They're the same height, same hand size, with similar combine numbers considering physical testing that is comparable/available over the years as the testing changes.  Mayfield has a stronger arm I would suppose, but I have to believe if Chase Daniel had played on OK rather than Mizzou he would have put up similar stats.  I'd rate Daniels and Mayfield's mobility as a wash..both can be elusive and move around to extend a play, but neither is Wilson.

Daniel while a career backup never caught traction as a starter.  Mayfield since he will be drafted high will probably get the chance to start early, but he has his limitations.

Just saying, Mayfield ain't no sure thing either

[Untouchable]

Seeing as how 95% of Jets fans think that Allen will suck scrotum...It would really be a hoot if we pass on him, he goes to Buffalo and turns out to be an all-pro QB, while the rest of these guys are either average at best starters or straight up busts.

I could finally give up watching the Jets for good...but not before checking out all of the epic backtracking that will be going on.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I get the skepticism around Allen, but some of these guys act like they've been NFL QB scouts for the last 20 years. The number of absolute statements, arrogant assertions about the future,  and dire warnings is really laughable. You've got a 50% chance of being right just by picking a position like a blind monkey. The rest is internet bravado. I can't wait for this to be over so we can move on.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Seeing as how 95% of Jets fans think that Allen will suck scrotum...It would really be a hoot if we pass on him, he goes to Buffalo and turns out to be an all-pro QB, while the rest of these guys are either average at best starters or straight up busts.

I could finally give up watching the Jets for good...but not before checking out all of the epic backtracking that will be going on.

I promise you what will be said - the Jets wouldn't have been able to develop him - so he would have sucked on the Jets...The fans here won't back track but still find a way to blame the organization...

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, Grandy said:

No, just QBs that couldn't hit Water if they fell out of a boat. 

Mayfield’s your guy he just fell drunk out of a boat last night

[Philc1]

57 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Seeing as how 95% of Jets fans think that Allen will suck scrotum...It would really be a hoot if we pass on him, he goes to Buffalo and turns out to be an all-pro QB, while the rest of these guys are either average at best starters or straight up busts.

I could finally give up watching the Jets for good...but not before checking out all of the epic backtracking that will be going on.

The anti-Allen people got burned by Hack and Petty after defending their sorry asses for 3 years.  So now they want to gamble the farm on an undersized party boy who is a glorified Case Keenum

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Grandy said:

Josh Allen had a 50% cmp, threw 8 picks with only 1 TD against power 5 teams.

....but he'll be great against NFL defenses, right?

Geno and Johnny Manziel had 70% completion percentages facing elite competition why not just draft Barkley and sign those 2 Beasts?

[burkett2112]

9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Geno and Johnny Manziel had 70% completion percentages facing elite competition why not just draft Barkley and sign those 2 Beasts?

First of all. If Barkley was there at 3 we should take him.

Lastly, this is the second time I've heard the phenomenal argument of "there have been guys who were good in college who weren't good in the NFL. So let's pick a guy who sucked in college, hell be good in the NFL!"

[Fantasy Island]

1 minute ago, burkett2112 said:

First of all. If Barkley was there at 3 we should take him.

Lastly, this is the second time I've heard the phenomenal argument of "there have been guys who were good in college who weren't good in the NFL. So let's pick a guy who sucked in college, hell be good in the NFL!"

The Hackenberg theorem.

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, burkett2112 said:

First of all. If Barkley was there at 3 we should take him.

Lastly, this is the second time I've heard the phenomenal argument of "there have been guys who were good in college who weren't good in the NFL. So let's pick a guy who sucked in college, hell be good in the NFL!"

Geno Smith same offense, same conference as Mayfield.  Manziel same offense but much tougher conference and same style of play

 

Both were zeros in the nfl and so will Baker Mayfield 

 

[burkett2112]

21 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Geno Smith same offense, same conference as Mayfield.  Manziel same offense but much tougher conference and same style of play

 

Both were zeros in the nfl and so will Baker Mayfield 

 

What does that have to do with the fact Josh Allen isnt any good?

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, burkett2112 said:

What does that have to do with the fact Josh Allen isnt any good?

Allen is going to be better than Baker in the nfl.  Sorry!