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Allen discusses his inaccuracy.

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16 minutes ago, Larz said:

Thanks.  I found a list where the top 16 career completion rates were all recent players, but there was a guy at 65 % from the 80s and Steve Young was 65 %

I have seen evaluators mention the Wyoming offense goes deep a lot with few screens and short throws, which is similar to an 80s offense. 

What makes Allen interesting is how much he seems to have improved in the last 3 months 

I would be more comfortable with Allen if the improvement occurred during actual game play, but it's still there. 

I can see why people don't want Allen, but for a franchise that plays outdoors in bad weather with 2 bridge QBs it's not a crazy idea to take him 

My concern with Allen is more decision making and happy feet. 

Can bates get him to the point that he can reach his potential? 

That's the question 

 

@dbatesman dropped the math on your beak and now you have other questions. Check your beak for them answers, homeboy.

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4 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

It's ok Pat Kirwan says Allen does not throw screens. So he's defacto 65% and it's only when he throws left he's got a problem..

 

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Pat-Kirwan-on-the-Top-3-Picks-in-the-NFL-Draft/f251947c-6a04-4b0c-91a4-a72e1d64602b

He can’t throw to the left? Lol. Holy sh!t. Well that won’t be hard for opponents to defend. 

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But having a low completion % historically means you will be a failure, outside of a couple guys from like 20+ years ago. 

Matthew Stafford, 57.1% college completion rate. 133 passer rating.

Josh Allen, 56.2% college completion rate, 137 passer rating.

Stats tell part of the story, but let's not pretend you can judge an NFL career pased solely on completion percentage. If it was that easy there would be no need for scouts.

 

 

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8 hours ago, dbatesman said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/87389/jets-have-a-josh-allen-conundrum-poor-scheme-fit-vs-big-upside

Jets have a Josh Allen conundrum  Poor scheme fit vs  big upside   AFC East  ESPN.png

He's just not good. I wouldn't touch him anywhere in the first round, and probably not in the second, either.

Great find

Josh Allen is the perfect example of how sports media can influence the opinions of folks. If the football media wasn't hyping this guy over the past 3 months NO ONE would be talking about Allen at #3 or even having him in the top 4 best quarterbacks. 

Allen has never dominated a football game. Matter of fact, if his college offense was based on being such a "vertical passing offense" and Mayfield was making a living off of screens, then why do the stats not support that? 

 

Passes of 0-9 yards

Mayfield 99-135 for 1,201 yards 73% comp rate

Allen 73-113 for 557 yards 64.6% comp rate

Mayfield only threw 22 more passes than Allen in this category. 

 

Passes of 10-19 yards

Mayfield 90-131 for 1,524 yards 68.7% comp rate

Allen 47-85 for 781 yards 55.3% comp rate

 

Passes of 20+

Mayfield 40-84 for 1,125 yards 47.6% comp rate

Allen 16-51 for 469 yards and a 31.4% comp rate. 

 

The stats themselves tell the story. Allen's threw almost as many passes from 0-9 yards as Mayfield, yet Mayfield completely out threw Allen from the 10-19 range in which he completed more passes in this area than Allen even attempted, and 20+ ranges where Mayfield almost tripped his completion amount in comparison to Allen while maintaining a higher completion rate. 

 

 

Josh Allen is the biggest hype I've ever seen. This doesn't mean he cant have a good career, but at this current stage, there is no realistic reason why this guy is even considered a top guy. It's all based on physical traits, and size doesn't make you a good football player. He's a 3rd round quality player a this stage. 

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11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great find

Josh Allen is the perfect example of how sports media can influence the opinions of folks. If the football media wasn't hyping this guy over the past 3 months NO ONE would be talking about Allen at #3 or even having him in the top 4 best quarterbacks.  

Ok, so we're going to act as if he wasn't already in the convo 3 months prior, better yet pre-season?

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31 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great find

Josh Allen is the perfect example of how sports media can influence the opinions of folks. If the football media wasn't hyping this guy over the past 3 months NO ONE would be talking about Allen at #3 or even having him in the top 4 best quarterbacks. 

Allen has never dominated a football game. Matter of fact, if his college offense was based on being such a "vertical passing offense" and Mayfield was making a living off of screens, then why do the stats not support that? 

 

Passes of 0-9 yards

Mayfield 99-135 for 1,201 yards 73% comp rate

Allen 73-113 for 557 yards 64.6% comp rate

Mayfield only threw 22 more passes than Allen in this category. 

 

Passes of 10-19 yards

Mayfield 90-131 for 1,524 yards 68.7% comp rate

Allen 47-85 for 781 yards 55.3% comp rate

 

Passes of 20+

Mayfield 40-84 for 1,125 yards 47.6% comp rate

Allen 16-51 for 469 yards and a 31.4% comp rate. 

 

The stats themselves tell the story. Allen's threw almost as many passes from 0-9 yards as Mayfield, yet Mayfield completely out threw Allen from the 10-19 range in which he completed more passes in this area than Allen even attempted, and 20+ ranges where Mayfield almost tripped his completion amount in comparison to Allen while maintaining a higher completion rate. 

 

 

Josh Allen is the biggest hype I've ever seen. This doesn't mean he cant have a good career, but at this current stage, there is no realistic reason why this guy is even considered a top guy. It's all based on physical traits, and size doesn't make you a good football player. He's a 3rd round quality player a this stage. 

Allen doesn't have good stats in 2017, that's not debatable. Why are you acting as if someone said otherwise. Mayfield had great stats, in fact best in the country (Heisman winner). He was the best college QB in the nation this past season and produced video games numbers in Oklahoma  Air-Raid attack. Better then Jackson, Darnold and Rosen. 

But looking at 1st round traits team want in a 1st round QB Mayfield doesn't fit the bill. Not only is he 6 feet like Brees and Russell but has tiny hands. Then come from this gimmick play option spread. 

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4 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Ok, so we're going to act as if he wasn't already in the convo 3 months prior, better yet pre-season?

So we're going to act as if this video talked about Josh Allen being a top QB in college??? The conversation in the video you provided talked about his journey to Wyoming, it stated nothing about his "traits" and and how it makes him a top 5 pick and all of the nonsense we hear today. 

 

4 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Allen doesn't have good stats in 2017, that's not debatable. Why are you acting as if someone said otherwise. Mayfield had great stats, in fact best in the country (Heisman winner). He was the best college QB in the nation this past season and produced video games numbers in Oklahoma  Air-Raid attack. Better then Jackson, Darnold and Rosen. 

But looking at 1st round traits team want in a 1st round QB Mayfield doesn't fit the bill. Not only is he 6 feet like Brees and Russell but has tiny hands. Then come from this gimmick play option spread. 

Why so many actors? Do I look like an actor (got up to look myself in the mirror)? Last time I checked, 1st round traits include anticipation, accuracy, ball placement, production etc. How the heck does Mayfield NOT fit that bill? WHY YOU ACTING like Mayfield hasn't put up production traits that teams look for in 1st round talent just so you can act like physical traits are the only traits that teams in the first round look for? Furthermore, if it was solely about these physical traits (given that Allen doesn't show performance traits consistently) then why isnt Mike White in this conversation as a top player? He's 6'4, has a powerful arm and had a better career than Allen. He's the same height as Allen and is taller than all of the top QB's? It makes no sense. 

You can criticize the Gimmick that is the spread option, but I'll leave you with this....directly from the mouth of Drew Brees regarding the spread...a system that he played in by the way.  

If Mayfield didn't fit the bill, he wouldn't be mocked in the top 5 consistently. Why you acting bro? :-)

Allen may also be mocked, but it has nothing to do with his performance but his physical traits...which makes him an immediate boom/bust candidate. 

Have the last word my friend. As long as the Jets dont draft him, then I dont really give a rats behind about Allen. 

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Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

I find it telling that the Allen detractors base their criticism solely on his play, while the Rosen and Mayfield critics like to work in that they don't like them personally i.e. they are jerks.

I also find it telling that those who defend Rosen or Mayfield do it with performance on the field, yet defenders of Allen talk about his physical traits...blame everything on his targets, excuse his inaccuracy away and will only use his senior bowl highlights...a game where he took a couple series and called it a day.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Gangrene said:

Matthew Stafford, 57.1% college completion rate. 133 passer rating.

Josh Allen, 56.2% college completion rate, 137 passer rating.

Stats tell part of the story, but let's not pretend you can judge an NFL career pased solely on completion percentage. If it was that easy there would be no need for scouts.

 

 

Stanford had 55% completion percentage in college first 2 years in Georgia than 61% his last season before going pro.  Has 57% for his college career.  

 

But yeah different eras football didn’t involve passing before 2015

 

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I find it telling that the Allen detractors base their criticism solely on his play, while the Rosen and Mayfield critics like to work in that they don't like them personally i.e. they are jerks.

 

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

I also find it telling that those who defend Rosen or Mayfield do it with performance on the field, yet defenders of Allen talk about his physical traits...blame everything on his targets, excuse his inaccuracy away and will only use his senior bowl highlights...a game where he took a couple series and called it a day.

 

 

I see it too... now let’s all join hands and try and mind meld this towards one Big Macc!

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I find it telling that the Allen detractors base their criticism solely on his stats, while the Rosen and Mayfield critics like to work in that they don't like them personally i.e. they are jerks.

Fix, as they honestly have admitted to not seeing him play but predict going by the stats alone tells them enough. 

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7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great find

Josh Allen is the perfect example of how sports media can influence the opinions of folks. If the football media wasn't hyping this guy over the past 3 months NO ONE would be talking about Allen at #3 or even having him in the top 4 best quarterbacks. 

Allen has never dominated a football game. Matter of fact, if his college offense was based on being such a "vertical passing offense" and Mayfield was making a living off of screens, then why do the stats not support that? 

 

 

This is completely 100% untrue.  Allen was considered a top 3 prospect last year - long before the season started.  His name was always mentioned with Allen and Darnold.  I remember last year at this time we were talking about locking up a top 3 pick to get one of the Joshes or Darnold.   Mayfield was considered a late first round, early 2nd round prospect at the start of this process.  

Say what you want about Allen - but let's not make stuff up.

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Josh Allen Defending 101

1) He is really tall and athletic

2) He has an unusually strong arm

3) He can throw fairly accurately in a scripted setting in shorts

4) Emphasize that his college teammates sucked. Be sure to ignore the fact that his team played many other bad teams in their non-power 5 conference. And that on any given play it is virtually impossible for even the best defense to have every receiving option covered. Stay away from any conversations about timing patterns, which require a pass to be thrown before the receiver is open, and the concept of throwing a receiver open.

5) Note that before College football actually started using passing as a main component of offensive play, many great QBs had completion percentages of less than 55% in college (use Joe Montana as an example even though he was not rated as a first round QB).

6) Accuse both Mayfield and Rosen of being bad guys in addition to being short and having suffered a concussion because if we can't raise our guy up, we had better knock the other guys down.

7) Avoid watching game film of Allen at all costs because it will only serve as evidence that he lacks the innate abilities to play QB in that he lacks any powers of anticipation and intuition. This may very well be linked to his inability to read a Defense --- because if he could he would have been able to make a pre-snap ID of the open receiver.

8) Claim that ALL of Allen's problems can be cured by fixing his footwork, and that Jordan Palmer has that job about 80% complete. 

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11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is completely 100% untrue.  Allen was considered a top 3 prospect last year - long before the season started.  His name was always mentioned with Allen and Darnold.  I remember last year at this time we were talking about locking up a top 3 pick to get one of the Joshes or Darnold.   Mayfield was considered a late first round, early 2nd round prospect at the start of this process.  

Say what you want about Allen - but let's not make stuff up.

And Hack was a top prospect until his on field play in college made him not one.

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15 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

And Hack was a top prospect until his on field play in college made him not one.

Hack once being a top prospect is actually a prime example of why Allen is different.  The fact that Allen is still a top prospect while Hack wasn't says a lot about his potential.

Not all tall QB's are the same - just because the Jets over drafted Hack doesn't make him a similar QB to Allen.  No matter how hard you all try to make it so.

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4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Hack once being a top prospect is actually a prime example of why Allen is different.  The fact that Allen is still a top prospect while Hack wasn't says a lot about his potential.

Not all tall QB's are the same - just because the Jets over drafted Hack doesn't make him a similar QB to Allen.  No matter how hard you all try to make it so.

The hack example was not meant to equate them. It was meant as an example of things changing. Hack was projected by many as the first overall pick BEFORE his last season at PSU. He went from top prospect to middle round project (to everyone except Mac). Allen didn't fall as far. IMO, he went from possible first overall pick to middle to late first round QB with a very high ceiling and high bust potential. 

IMO he is the least safe pick of the top 6 QBs, but he could be the best of them. His value depends on your view of "could". I personally, after watching him play all season, do not like his chances. I think the NFL will prove to be too fast for him. He's just not a good decision maker.

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I will support whoever we draft. If we do draft Allen, like Pat Kirwan said he would sit him a year. I don't know about a sitting him for a full season. I think he would have to be brought along slowly like the Dolphins did with Tannehill. They started him off with short easy throws, slants screens, etc, with the occasional deep ball or a 25 yard out. Tannehill also had problems throwing to his left and is not the most accurate throwing deep, he is great throwing from 0-15 yards and letting his receivers do the rest. That scares me about Allen, taking a QB at 3 I would like to not have to worry about footwork,  accuracy issues, and problems throwing the left side of the field. I  have no idea how any of these guys will turn in the pros, I just hope we make the right pick.

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18 hours ago, Untouchable said:

People really underestimate just how sh*tty of a supporting cast he had last season.

Just look at the Potato Bowl against Central Michigan. His receivers are completely blanketed on damn near every pass attempt. Can’t even get an inch of separation against Chippewa DB’s.

There’s no denying that he’s a risk...but so is Mayfield. So is Rosen. So is Darnold.

Difference is, if every last one of these guys were to reach the peak of their potential, Allen would laugh down from his mountain at their asses, Crom-style.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath.  

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17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

If we stayed at 6 Mac would have drafted the same exact player he just traded 3 2nds and a 1st for, Shorty Mayfield 

No matter how many times you say this it won't be true.  And you must be really tall to call a 6'1" guy "shorty" and a "hobbit."

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