Allen discusses his inaccuracy.

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Mayfield is a more polished passer than Manziel...but otherwise, there are plenty of similarities.

Both are under 6’1. Both come equipped with maturity concerns both on and off the field. Both hail from the same air raid offense. Both are Heisman winners. Both were lauded for their “moxy” and “passion” on the field. 

Hell, Joel Klatt, a mega-Mayfield supporter even admits that Mayfield’s floor is similar to what Manziel amounted to in the pros.

Looks like even Klatt is slowly coming to the dark side [a.k.a. pro-Allen]?  I think Klatt may have gone back and watched some more tape.  He also has Allen ahead on Mayfield on his mock.  He's a sneaky SOB; just a few weeks ago he was sounding like a Allen hater.  I guess he thought no one would notice.  The man is talking out the both side of his mouth.

 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

So we're going to act as if this video talked about Josh Allen being a top QB in college??? The conversation in the video you provided talked about his journey to Wyoming, it stated nothing about his "traits" and and how it makes him a top 5 pick and all of the nonsense we hear today. 

 

The video was from August of 2017 (of course before the season) with McShay outlining his top 10 QBs and Allen was top 4. So there, I answered your question 

". If the football media wasn't hyping this guy over the past 3 months NO ONE would be talking about Allen at #3 or even having him in the top 4 best quarterbacks.  "

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

How the heck does Mayfield NOT fit that bill? WHY YOU ACTING like Mayfield hasn't put up production traits that teams look for in 1st round talent just so you can act like physical traits are the only traits that teams in the first round look for?

 

For the millionth time, who here is saying Mayfield didn't have phenomenal production? It's more so based upon how he came to getting that production. From a Air-raid offense that constantly ran zone action looks on majority of their pass plays with a couple NFL concept. Had limited snap from center but the most alarming thing is his measurables, not only height wise but hand measurement. Then you add in his antics and it doesn't at all scream 1st rounder.

 

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Furthermore, if it was solely about these physical traits (given that Allen doesn't show performance traits consistently) then why isnt Mike White in this conversation as a top player? He's 6'4, has a powerful arm and had a better career than Allen. He's the same height as Allen and is taller than all of the top QB's? It makes no sense. 

I've never seen Mike White (like ever), nor am I going to look at his stats for a split second and base his NFL potential off them. Unlike those who never seen Allen play I'll admittedly say I have to leave that topic alone. 

[dbatesman]

54 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is a delicate balance.  I don't want to pick sh*theads to be coached up.  On the other hand, I don't want coaches that don't think they can coach up a guy with an arm like that. Seems obvious that these guys can't anyway, whether they think they can or not.

Agree, but I also don’t think anyone can coach up Allen.

[FidelioJet]

We would be absolutely crazy to pass on Allen if he's there...

[#27TheDominator]

30 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

I've never seen Mike White (like ever), nor am I going to look at his stats for a split second and base his NFL potential off them. Unlike those who never seen Allen play I'll admittedly say I have to leave that topic alone. 

I am no expert on Mike White and watch very little of any of these guys, even highlights.  I do read a ton of profiles though. White seems decent enough and was a 90 mph pitching prospect at one point.  OTOH, his numbers being better than Allen's is another silly thing to crow about since Western Kentucky ran a wide-open trick play offense with tons of RPO and tunnel screens. Jeff Brohm was a Petrino disciple and brother of Brian, went off to coach Purdue.  White did worse this year with Brohm gone.  He also did worse than his predecessor, Brandon Doughty who was a 7th rounder and signed a futures contract with the Cards.  Check White's stats at South Florida.  Yuck.  He is also very slow and takes a ton of sacks and fumbles like crazy-his hands aren't so big either.

 

[ZachEY]

18 hours ago, dbatesman said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/87389/jets-have-a-josh-allen-conundrum-poor-scheme-fit-vs-big-upside

He's just not good. I wouldn't touch him anywhere in the first round, and probably not in the second, either.

Maybe the guy who he’s being compared to is all wrong.  Maybe he’s more Gholston than Hack.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Maybe the guy who he’s being compared to is all wrong.  Maybe he’s more Gholston than Hack.

Because Gholston had poor college production and supporting cast?

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Because Gholston had poor college production and supporting cast?

Because Gholston was just not good at football despite having absurd physical traits, save one that was pretty important to his position.

[Smashmouth]

21 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I've been dead set against Allen but if we do chose him I'll be pumped to have him on our team.  I mean how bad can he actually be.  He does have many redeeming qualities after all: size, arm, smarts, leadership on/off field, others.  So I'm finally completely neutral on which QB we select.  Bring on the draft, baby, we're getting a QB.  

I think we already have the exact version of Josh Allen currently on the team and its funny because he just worked out with a QB guru and claims his accuracy and footwork is now fixed

[FidelioJet]

Because Gholston had poor college production and supporting cast?

That stat was incredibly misleading. He through a lot of balls away because of the pressure and no one being open.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[#27TheDominator]

13 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Because Gholston was just not good at football despite having absurd physical traits, save one that was pretty important to his position.

Not to derail the conversation any further, but I don't think Gholston's physical traits were so absurd.  I thought he did worse than expected at the combine and it should have been a red flag, especially change of direction "events" since he came in so light. 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

 

That stat was incredibly misleading. He through a lot of balls away because of the pressure and no one being open.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Gholston?

[Jetsplayer21]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I think we already have the exact version of Josh Allen currently on the team and its funny because he just worked out with a QB guru and claims his accuracy and footwork is now fixed

Ya, maybe Allen could go on the 3 yr jet qb red shirt program too. Buy Mac more time for his current job lol 

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Mayfield is a more polished passer than Manziel...but otherwise, there are plenty of similarities.

Both are under 6’1. Both come equipped with maturity concerns both on and off the field. Both hail from the same air raid offense. Both are Heisman winners. Both were lauded for their “moxy” and “passion” on the field. 

Hell, Joel Klatt, a mega-Mayfield supporter even admits that Mayfield’s floor is similar to what Manziel amounted to in the pros.

One stark difference is that Manziel said in an interview last week that he made no effort whatsoever to learn Cleveland's playbook.  In contrast, Mayfield is supposed to be a worker with a photographic memory for that stuff.  Could be the PR machine in motion but I lean toward believing it.  Another difference is that Mayfield looks a lot thicker, which would make him less fragile.  Also, the volume of Manziel's off-the-field issues seemed higher, although maybe most of it was after he was drafted, I can't remember.

[Untouchable]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

One stark difference is that Manziel said in an interview last week that he made no effort whatsoever to learn Cleveland's playbook.  In contrast, Mayfield is supposed to be a worker with a photographic memory for that stuff.  Could be the PR machine in motion but I lean toward believing it.  Another difference is that Mayfield looks a lot thicker, which would make him less fragile.  Also, the volume of Manziel's off-the-field issues seemed higher, although maybe most of it was after he was drafted, I can't remember.

It also came out last week that Mayfield made no effort to study the mini playbook that the Chargers gave him. That’s just asinine to me. These are the most important job interviews these guys will ever have. And it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Mayfield could slip to #17 or that the Chargers could trade up to secure the potential heir to Rivers who may very well call it quits after this season.

I won’t be pissed if we take Mayfield and I personally don’t think that he’ll go the way of Manziel...but there are definitely some concerns there. 

[Bruce Harper]

9 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

It also came out last week that Mayfield made no effort to study the mini playbook that the Chargers gave him. That’s just asinine to me. These are the most important job interviews these guys will ever have. And it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Mayfield could slip to #17 or that the Chargers could trade up to secure the potential heir to Rivers who may very well call it quits after this season.

I won’t be pissed if we take Mayfield and I personally don’t think that he’ll go the way of Manziel...but there are definitely some concerns there. 

Not the same as it would be if the Chargers drafted him and gave him a contract but, agreed, not the best judgment.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

19 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I hear you. I don’t love this class, but I’d honestly be ok with any of the QBs other than Allen.

Yeah. I mean the situation isn't ideal but it's possible, making certain reasonable assumptions, that these ****heads played it exactly right. Even if Mayfield isn't a particularly close third, he's not worse than that either, and it makes sense that we think besides being our most likely pick he's also the best chance we have to get lucky and land one of the top two instead. The early trade and all the conspicuous Mayfield smoke is exactly what we're supposed to do here. It's just hard not to worry that what could otherwise surely be interpreted as just standard common sense is actually some harebrained scheme because Maccagnan is a dumb person.

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Yeah. I mean the situation isn't ideal but it's possible, making certain reasonable assumptions, that these ****heads played it exactly right. Even if Mayfield isn't a particularly close third, he's not worse than that either, and it makes sense that we think besides being our most likely pick he's also the best chance we have to get lucky and land one of the top two instead. The early trade and all the conspicuous Mayfield smoke is exactly what we're supposed to do here. It's just hard not to worry that what could otherwise surely be interpreted as just standard common sense is actually some harebrained scheme because Maccagnan is a dumb person.

I've spent the last week or so talking myself into all the different ways this could end up ok. Then I think of the combination of luck and high-level, long-term strategic thinking that would require, and then I remember that we could have ended up in the top three and kept all the twos to boot if these morons had just let Petty and Hackenberg piss the season down their legs instead of wringing the last drops of usefulness out of McCown, and then I just try to think of something else.

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

 

For the millionth time

Then leave it alone, if it's that many times. Josh Allen sucks until he proves not to. Plan and simple. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then leave it alone, if it's that many times. Josh Allen sucks until he proves not to. Plan and simple. 

Leave what alone? No one said Mayfield didnt throw 4,200 yards in that gimmick offense.

"Josh Allen sucks until he proves not to."

Therefore Mayfield is great until .....

-we find out that he's 6'0

-Has a hard time adjusting to pro concepts

-Too much of a drunk to stay out if trouble?

[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

We would be absolutely crazy to pass on Allen if he's there...

Because he has yet to play his position well, but people think he could be really good in the NFL?

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Leave what alone? No one said Mayfield didnt throw 4,200 yards in that gimmick offense.

"Josh Allen sucks until he proves not to."

Therefore Mayfield is great until .....

-we find out that he's 6'0

-Has a hard time adjusting to pro concepts

-Too much of a drunk to stay out if trouble?

Awe...i hurt your feelings. 

[Sonny Werblin]

2 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Leave what alone? No one said Mayfield didnt throw 4,200 yards in that gimmick offense.

"Josh Allen sucks until he proves not to."

Therefore Mayfield is great until .....

-we find out that he's 6'0

-Has a hard time adjusting to pro concepts

-Too much of a drunk to stay out if trouble?

There it is. Attack the person if you can't really question the talent and production.

As to adjusting to pro-concepts, that is every college QB. The adjustment has very little to do with what the O does. Most any of these guys can call and run pro-plays. The adjustment is to the pro D. Nothing in college is anything like a pro D when it comes to disguising coverage, blitz packages, and sheer talent of the guys on that side of the ball.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Awe...i hurt your feelings. 

Why?? You barely said anything. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Why?? You barely said anything. 

 

And yet I said enough. Your response showed your feelings so much that even Sonny caught it. 

You dont get your way, there goes the attacks and talking of "gimmicky" offenses and drinking. If it was a gimmick defenses would stop it. If it was a gimmick OU would have been slaughtered by Georgia, instead it took Georgia 4 quarters, 2 overtime periods and 54 points to beat Mayfield and that gimmicky offense. 

And folks can keep living off of a couple series in the senior bowl, but Allen has NEVER been on the field with a defense as good as Georgia...which includes that senior bowl. 

I barely said anything because there proof is in the pudding. And like usual, the moment emotions set in folks resort to stupid sh*t like drunk videos that's over a year old. Yeah, that's what folks got to hold on to. 

 

Pathetic. Well, I guess that cop dash cam is more action than any Allen video on the football field...so there's that. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Quote

 

22 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

There it is. Attack the person if you can't really question the talent and production.

As to adjusting to pro-concepts, that is every college QB. The adjustment has very little to do with what the O does. Most any of these guys can call and run pro-plays. The adjustment is to the pro D. Nothing in college is anything like a pro D when it comes to disguising coverage, blitz packages, and sheer talent of the guys on that side of the ball.

Mayfield talent and production has already been questioned. The ability to produce in a none gimmick system that certainly inflates his stats. Throw in rhythm under center under a pro concept Instead of all these misdirection zone reads. Johnny Football and Tim Tebow were great in these systems as well. Adjusting to pro D will be an adjustment for all QBs. 

We also can't protend as if character doesn't matter when out of all positions it probably matters most for QBs.

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Mayfield talent and production has already been questioned. The ability to produce in a none gimmick system that certainly inflates his stats. Throw in rhythm under center under a pro concept Instead of all these misdirection zone reads. Johnny Football and Tim Tebow were great in these systems as well. Adjusting to pro D will be an adjustment for all QBs. 

We also can't protend as if character doesn't matter when out of all positions it probably matters most for QBs.

There you go, changing the subject. Now it's Mayfield in question because of the gimmicky offense. 

All this "pro offense" bullcrap is just that. These QB's will be tested when they're on the field with Pro level defensive talent on the other side of the football. And Mayfield has more experience with upper level defensive players than Allen. He wasn't playing in the potato bowl, but the rose bowl and the orange bowl.

The NFL is turning more towards that misdirection zone read RPO, Spread em out offense. 

Funny, the Jets last top 10 offense was in 2015. What did they run? Spread. 

 

Face it. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

And yet I said enough. Your response showed your feelings so much that even Sonny caught it. 

You dont get your way, there goes the attacks and talking of "gimmicky" offenses and drinking. If it was a gimmick defenses would stop it. If it was a gimmick OU would have been slaughtered by OU, instead it took Georgia 4 quarters, 2 overtime periods and 54 points to beat Mayfield and that gimmicky offense. 

And folks can keep living off of a couple series in the senior bowl, but Allen has NEVER been on the field with a defense as good as Georgia...which includes that senior bowl. 

I barely said anything because there proof is in the pudding. And like usual, the moment emotions set in folks resort to stupid sh*t like drunk videos that's over a year old. Yeah, that's what folks go to hold on to. 

 

Pathetic. Well, I guess that cop dash cam is more action than any Allen video on the football field...so there's that. 

Feeling? Bro I'm stating facts lol. Please just admit you were wrong in saying no one had him top 4 until 3 months ago. 

After reading your post above it seems your the one who's emotionally invested in this. But hey, go figure.

Now your insisting I cant talk about OU offense? Are we not picking apart these prospects? Let me guess let's leave that out because it doesn't favor Mayfield? Let not talk about him being drunk? Because it doesn't favor Mayfield. Let's not talk about his measurement, why? Because it doesn't favor Mayfield. 

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Feeling? Bro I'm stating facts lol. Please just admit you were wrong in saying no one had him top 4 until 3 months ago. 

After reading your post above it seems your the one who's emotionally invested in this. But hey, go figure.

Now your insisting I cant talk about OU offense? Are we not picking apart these prospects? Let me guess let's leave that out because it doesn't favor Mayfield? Let not talk about him being drunk? Because it doesn't favor Mayfield. Let's not talk about his measurement, why? Because it doesn't favor Mayfield. 

No, those are your emotions. The Spread offense is an offense that just won the Super Bowl, not just the Super Bowl, but the SB that produced the highest amount of offense ever.

 

Matter of fact, the Spread offense has BEEN winning superbowls. The New England patriots runs a spread offense. You talk nonsense. As as for the top 4, like I said, no one had Allen there. That's the fact of the matter. 

But for the record, neither was Mayfield...except for me. I had him there over two years ago. Did you have Allen there over two years ago? Can you show proof of that? I can show proof. 

https://forums.jetnation.com/search/?&q=baker mayfield&type=forums_topic&page=15&nodes=18&sortby=newest

 

I understand you're emotional now. It's fine bro. 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I don't see the similarity but I guess we'll find out.

You think Mayfield has no Johnny Manziel in him?

[Philc1]

14 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

No, those are your emotions. The Spread offense is an offense that just won the Super Bowl, not just the Super Bowl, but the SB that produced the highest amount of offense ever.

 

Matter of fact, the Spread offense has BEEN winning superbowls. The New England patriots runs a spread offense. You talk nonsense. As as for the top 4, like I said, no one had Allen there. That's the fact of the matter. 

But for the record, neither was Mayfield...except for me. I had him there over two years ago. Did you have Allen there over two years ago? Can you show proof of that? I can show proof. 

https://forums.jetnation.com/search/?&q=baker mayfield&type=forums_topic&page=15&nodes=18&sortby=newest

 

I understand you're emotional now. It's fine bro. 

Here we go again Villain pretending the air raid is now pro style because Nick Foles had a good month

[LAD_Brooklyn]

14 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

No, those are your emotions. The Spread offense is an offense that just won the Super Bowl, not just the Super Bowl, but the SB that produced the highest amount of offense ever.

 

Matter of fact, the Spread offense has BEEN winning superbowls. The New England patriots runs a spread offense. You talk nonsense. As as for the top 4, like I said, no one had Allen there. That's the fact of the matter. 

But for the record, neither was Mayfield...except for me. 

The entire NFL runs a spread offense especially on passing situations, of course we all knew this. But not that gimmick spread Oklahoma runs. 

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Here we go again Villain pretending the air raid is now pro style because Nick Foles had a good month

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

The entire NFL runs a spread offense especially on passing situations, of course we all knew this. But not that gimmick spread Oklahoma runs. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH (Takes breath....)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

The entire NFL runs a spread offense especially on passing situations, of course we all knew this. But not that gimmick spread Oklahoma runs. 

Even teams that run the spread in the NFL ALOT like us with Gailey in 2015 still go under center on passing plays a significant amount