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Someone sell me on Darnold


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31 minutes ago, CTM said:

Eh, you can think it's a bad pick and still root for the player and hope to be proven wrong. Darnold will be fun to watch, he'll make some great plays and probably a lot of boneheaded ones. On the plus side, he's really young so he's got plenty of time to clean up his game.  I don't think the Jets are going to rush him in there.

Personally, I'm with you and would rather have the polished guy whose shown he can run an offense than the high ceiling sandlot guy who needs a lot of work. The latter seems to not work out more often than it does. The reality however is that I think Rosen comes with significant durability issues that makes him as likely of becoming Sam Bradford as Matt Ryan, maybe even more so.

So maybe sell yourself that Rosen wasn't a slam dunk either?

I 100% am rooting for him. Again, I don’t think it’s a bad pick, I just felt there was one better. Tbh, this thread has helped a lot. I know it’s easy for people to say go look him up on your own, but there’s far too much information and too many opinions out there interspersed throughout the web and even throughout the threads here. This thread condenses it down and makes it easier to follow.

I’ll admit that for the first time throughout this process, I thought Rosen looked really bad in his interview after the Cardinals picked him. That’s beginning to help with getting over him. I also brushed aside the injury concerns because I loved everything else about him, but now that we don’t have him, I have to recalibrate and understand that Darnold’s availability is stronger than Rosen’s, and that’s a big deal.

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

It was also said this morning by Randy Moss on NFLN that Dan Marino had 46 INTs his last two years of college

If you look at any QB in the NFL they turn the ball over relative to their offensive weapons & the strength of their Olines. Look at Phillip Rivers, when the Chargers let LT go, Gates was injured & their WRs weren't good before Keenan Allen arrived Rivers TOs exploded trying to do too much.

Sam lost his WRs and his Oline was in flux. Unless their is an edge Rusher at the top of the 3rd, Jets need to keep adding Oline & offensive weapons for Sams future success. 

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29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This.

For every doubt on Darnold, Rosen has a doubt as well, if not more.

Near consensus top QB prospect.

Yes his turnovers are a legit discussion point. Unquestionably.

But we get the top QB at#3, we should be pleased and at least conservatively optimistic...till we’re given reason to be critical.

Well said. I have a real good feeling that we have our franchise QB. He was asked "What can Jet fans expect from him"?

He says "Lots of wins"

That's fine by me and a great answer.

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1 hour ago, jbt said:

i think his demeanor will be good for the jets.  kind of like Eli.  wont be doing GQ covers

This - except I think Sam will be a better leader than Eli

Great news that the circus is not returning, no drama, Darnold will listen and learn from McCown (finally a reason to appreciate that contract) and a healthy Bridgewater could provide options this team has never had, be happy 

The Jets just got the best QB in the draft at #3 and he is ready to go to work

oh, and by his 25th birthday, Eli, Ben, Drew, Tom should all be retired

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Here is my take on Darnold, who I had third. I hypothisezed with my friend and brother yesterday part of the reason I had him 3rd was because I thought the Jets had zero shot at him.  Not sure that's true, but it's possible.

Anyway, the thing that I will hold onto are his accuracy, his calm demeanor, and his athletic ability.  He has accuracy at all 3 levels.  Everyone knows the importance of accuracy.  He has it.  He can make plays when things break down.  Also very important.  

If the mental part of his game catches up with the physical part, he will be the best QB in this class.  I think it's important to let him sit until he can fully command the offense.  If that is Week 1, great.  Week 8, great too.

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Just like Allen had unteachable arm strength, Darnold also has a lot of special qualities. The most special of which is he can extend plays and make something out of a broken play. He does this regularly with accuracy on the run.

But he also has the pocket passer qualities you want to see and develop. Doesn't always make clean decisions, but is decisive in his reads. Can throw with good timing, leads receivers, and can throw with touch. 

Couple that with protypical size, sufficient arm strength, and sufficient accuracy numbers against good competition and there is a lot to like. 

Downsides: low amount of collegr starts. still has to develop the decisionmaking. Has to cut down on turnovers of all types. People are hung up on the fumble issue, but i don't see him acknowledging the fact that he still threw too many picks as well. That is not going to be an easy fix given the fact that he knows he can make magic happen sometimes. Just because you can beat double coverage at times doesn't make it a good idea to keep trying to do it, etc. 

still think Rosen is a safer pick all said but as mentioned he has injury concerns as well, but i'm content with Darnold. He's the best qb prospect we've had since pre shoulder injury pennington. 

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3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Here is my take on Darnold, who I had third. I hypothisezed with my friend and brother yesterday part of the reason I had him 3rd was because I thought the Jets had zero shot at him.  Not sure that's true, but it's possible.

Anyway, the thing that I will hold onto are his accuracy, his calm demeanor, and his athletic ability.  He has accuracy at all 3 levels.  Everyone knows the importance of accuracy.  He has it.  He can make plays when things break down.  Also very important.  

If the mental part of his game catches up with the physical part, he will be the best QB in this class.  I think it's important to let him sit until he can fully command the offense.  If that is Week 1, great.  Week 8, great too.

Just keep in mind that he is 20 years old.   No need to rush anything.  I promise you will love this guy in a couple years.  

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I would say take a 30 mins today and watch both the PSU Rose Bowl game and the "terrible" Ohio State cutups of him.  He was getting destroyed against OSU, but continued to face the rush and make throws.

The kid has a knack of being able to move/throw when there is absolutely chaos around him.  He is routinely making accurate throws with the pocket collapsing around him, and that is extraordinarily rare.   His accuracy on the move is also elite.

Look, I think everyone may feel a bit of a letdown because Baker was so polarizing and he would have started opening as would Rosen, but the truth is we got the consensus best QB who is not only 20 years old, but who also has elite size at this age and could easily wind up growing.  Now its on our coaches to develop him.

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I believe the reason fans have been feeling "strange" about the pick is because
Darnold wasn't expected to be there and he was NEVER connected to us in the
pre-draft process.  It was always Mayfield or Rosen being "mocked" to the Jets
so that's who the fans focused on as they "Googled" every bit of info.  Based on
their performances last year I had Darnold ranked #3 behind Rosen and Mayfield.
Darnold has issues that need to be corrected, particularly with turnovers and 
his footwork within the pocket which can be sloppy.  But his strengths are
evident:

- Frame
- Arm strength
- Mobility
- Accuracy
- Excellent in "off schedule" situations.  Basically when a play breaks down he
can pull a play out of his "butt"
- No medical or off field questions

Add in the fact that he's only going to turn 21 next month and there's a lot to work
with   
 

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If you watch tape on him, he is the only qb in the draft (along with Rosen) who really has NFL ready throws.  It's extremely rare for any college qb to be able to do that, and that's why those two guys have been so heavily hyped.  Even players like Aaron Rogers weren't making those types of throws in college (it took a few years).
Some guys have great arm strength (hell, look no further than Hack and Petty), but that's really not enough.  You need the combination of release speed, the tightness of the spiral, the velocity and angle of the ball and crucially the accuracy of placement that sets a pro ready qb from someone who isn't.
Anyway, couple that with a good work ethic, and we finally have a player that has a nonzero chance of developing into a good QB.  Compare that with a prospect like Hack who really isn't interesting, simply b/c you know that he will never end up with over a 55% completion percentage in the pros.
What ??? I love the pick, but he is nowhere near as pro ready as Rosen... The syseen he was in had the entire team look to the sideline to get the plays signalled in.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, KRL said:

I believe the reason fans have been feeling "strange" about the pick is because
Darnold wasn't expected to be there and he was NEVER connected to us in the
pre-draft process.  It was always Mayfield or Rosen being "mocked" to the Jets
so that's who the fans focused on as they "Googled" every bit of info.  Based on
their performances last year I had Darnold ranked #3 behind Rosen and Mayfield.
Darnold has issues that need to be corrected, particularly with turnovers and 
his footwork within the pocket which can be sloppy.  But his strengths are
evident:

- Frame
- Arm strength
- Mobility
- Accuracy
- Excellent in "off schedule" situations.  Basically when a play breaks down he
can pull a play out of his "butt"
- No medical or off field questions

Add in the fact that he's only going to turn 21 next month and there's a lot to work
with   
 

Fumbling is one thing, and he likely will have more fumbles then most QBs due to his movement in the pocket, but were the picks this season really that bad?  The kid had so little help on that USC offense compared to the previous year, he had to force things a bit.   I just dont see a few ints as a reason for the Browns to have gifted him to us.

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Also, for those people who were gushing about Mayfield’s “moxy” and how he was a walk on and so competitive.  I remember when Darnold  was being recruited out of high school.  He wanted to go to USC but they weren’t banging down the door for him. They already had Cody Kessler as the starter and had Max Browne and Ricky Town committed.  Coach Helton promised him nothing, but Darnold asked “you’re going to play the best QB correct?”  Helton said yes and Darnold committed.  

He doesn’t run around waving his arms and doesn’t wear headbands, but he has plenty of competitiveness and “moxy”.  

Mayfield will never be as good as Tyrod Taylor.  System qb on a great college team cannot wait to see him bust while Darnold wins games for us

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I remember being surprised in a pre-draft interview where he was cocky toward the rest of his draft class.  He was like "I'll be the last man standing".  It didn't come off as a playfully competitive either.  Darnold seems like more a quiet, humble kid (at least far more so than Rosen).  I like his demeanor and not having to worry about personality issues.  Pre-draft I ignored those concerns about Rosen but he really does seem like a cocky eff.  I still do think Rosen will be good as long as he's healthy.  And the warm weather of AZ will prob be to his advantage.  But I fully understand scouts who say that Rosen will be great when given a clean pocket "but how often do you see that in the NFL".  The NFL is about improvising under pressure.  Sam is the guy for that.  I think we hit the jackpot here.  We just need to not rush him.  Let him marinate for 1-2 years.  

I went into the day with no problem with Rosen.  By the end of the day I was glad he was not on my team.

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Mayfield will never be as good as Tyrod Taylor.  System qb on a great college team cannot wait to see him bust while Darnold wins games for us

Im afraid to ask, but given your dislike for Mayfield throughout this process, were you happy with the Darnold pick?

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21 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Just like Allen had unteachable arm strength, Darnold also has a lot of special qualities. The most special of which is he can extend plays and make something out of a broken play. He does this regularly with accuracy on the run.

But he also has the pocket passer qualities you want to see and develop. Doesn't always make clean decisions, but is decisive in his reads. Can throw with good timing, leads receivers, and can throw with touch. 

Couple that with protypical size, sufficient arm strength, and sufficient accuracy numbers against good competition and there is a lot to like. 

Downsides: low amount of collegr starts. still has to develop the decisionmaking. Has to cut down on turnovers of all types. People are hung up on the fumble issue, but i don't see him acknowledging the fact that he still threw too many picks as well. That is not going to be an easy fix given the fact that he knows he can make magic happen sometimes. Just because you can beat double coverage at times doesn't make it a good idea to keep trying to do it, etc. 

still think Rosen is a safer pick all said but as mentioned he has injury concerns as well, but i'm content with Darnold. He's the best qb prospect we've had since pre shoulder injury pennington. 

It's hard to predict where quarterback evaluation is going to go from here. With Mayfield going first overall it mostly feels like the league is getting to the party late. Now with the specter of CTE you absolutely have to be asking the question: if this guy is so ******* good then why did he just go back to school to take another year of head shots for free? The fat start counts that used to be the first thing you looked for per Parcells Lewin etc. have to be discounted somewhat now.

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15 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

What ??? I love the pick, but he is nowhere near as pro ready as Rosen... The syseen he was in had the entire team look to the sideline to get the plays signalled in.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

 the term pro ready is overrated anyway. Both Marriota and Wentz where suppose to be both a year or 2 away . Both started early and have been successful..

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Amazingly, I can't kill Mcc for the pick.   Still, IMO I believe Darnold winds up as another career backup.  I would have preferred Rosen.

And as much as we would all have flipped out on the pick, the friggin' Giants got a can't miss in Barkley.  That kid is huge, fast, can catch and immediately elevates their offense.  

Forget the QBs in this draft.  Barkley and Chubb are to me the most impressive players.  I would not want to be a QB with Chubb and Miller in my face.  If you're a Denver fan, right now you have a major "chubbie" thinking about those two maniacs on the field together.

 

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54 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Thoroughly useless post. Petty and Hack are too. You’re sold on them?

Thank you. This was helpful and added value to the thread.

Yes, I’m aware I made a mistake and not the Jets. I’m hoping that holds true.

For everyone who feels butthurt that I would dare even create this thread, let me make this perfectly clear. Darnold is our guy. I’ll root for him as hard as I rooted for Sanchez even though I wasn’t sold on him either. I want Darnold throwing TDS in January and February for us for the next 15 years.

This thread was not created to bitch about the pick, it was for the opposite; to feel better about it. A lot of the posts so far - the above notwithstanding - have done that.

 

All 4 of these qbs had good positives but each had a red flag or 2 somewhere. I think darnold had the fewest. The remarkable thing is, had we traded up to 1 darnold is the pick over mayfield. I’m not going to pretend I know more then the scouts who all seem to love darnold the most. 90% of the other teams in league picking 1 or 2 would have picked him. Or traded down and another team would have. The browns are always the browns, pick the outside the box pick. The giants picking Barkley over darnold surprised me a lot.

Im sure the giants wanted to find a 3rd team to make a trade down with. They could have giving up the 2 which a team most likely would have took darnold. Went to 4 and guaranteed to still get Barkley.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I remember being surprised in a pre-draft interview where he was cocky toward the rest of his draft class.  He was like "I'll be the last man standing".  It didn't come off as a playfully competitive either.  Darnold seems like more a quiet, humble kid (at least far more so than Rosen).  I like his demeanor and not having to worry about personality issues.  Pre-draft I ignored those concerns about Rosen but he really does seem like a cocky eff.  I still do think Rosen will be good as long as he's healthy.  And the warm weather of AZ will prob be to his advantage.  But I fully understand scouts who say that Rosen will be great when given a clean pocket "but how often do you see that in the NFL".  The NFL is about improvising under pressure.  Sam is the guy for that.  I think we hit the jackpot here.  We just need to not rush him.  Let him marinate for 1-2 years.  

That attitude you're talking about with Rosen?  It's Tom Brady's

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4 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

It's hard to predict where quarterback evaluation is going to go from here. With Mayfield going first overall it mostly feels like the league is getting to the party late. Now with the specter of CTE you absolutely have to be asking the question: if this guy is so ******* good then why did he just go back to school to take another year of head shots for free? The fat start counts that used to be the first thing you looked for per Parcells Lewin etc. have to be discounted somewhat now.

I think you're right regarding college starts, unfortunately. QB evaluation has been so baffling because of all the fluid variables to begin with it was nice to have some semi-reliable data points to find meaningful correlations. 

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- He’s only 20, and he’s this good.

- Mobile, improvisor, deadly accurate, plenty strong arm, ideal size.

- Leader, with high football IQ and a cerebral mindset.

- His life is football, not celebrity or persona.

- Did I say he’s only 20?

- Was clearly smarter than his college coaches but never really put them on blast and made it about him. My reference is when Darnold said during the season that they needed to switch things up on offense instead of running the same stuff. Clearly ge knows his stuff but didn’t want throw coaches or teammates under the bus. He clearly sees the big picture though, and will do well with a coach like Bates.

- Tough, and plays well on big stage and pressure situations (Rose Bowl he owned the game).

I think the question is, sell me on why not Sam Darnold? Besides the fumbles which is a legitimate concern.

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I hate Debbie downers. This site is filled with them and is generally why I read the site 10x/day but average only 1 post/day. SOJF aren’t worth my time, I say. But today, I realize I sound like one.
I want to be happy and excited. I woke up yesterday like a 7 year old on Christmas, knowing we were going to get our choice of 2 of the top 3 QBs, knowing that there was no way we’d make the Allen mistake because I see Mac growing before our eyes, and knowing that we’d choose one of them. I cleared my entire afternoon even though I have a major deadline looming for today. I WFH, went to MetLife with my brother and best friend, tailgated with [mention=5331]Maxman[/mention] and got to meet TailgateJoe. I was amped for the draft. I knew I’d be excited. 
However, standing there on the field at the 50 in MetLife while the Jets were on the clock, I found myself hoping for the most cerebral guy in the draft who happens to be able to make every single throw on the field, and when Goodell called Darnold, I found myself to be upset. I don’t want to feel this way. 
Someone please sell me on Darnold. Sell me on why his turnovers, small hands, minimal starting experience, and USC non-pro-style background are irrelevant or can be amended with age and experience.
Or better yet, someone go the other way and sell me on why Darnold will be throwing TDS in meaningful December and January (and hopefully February) games for the next 12-15 years.
 

I felt the same way lol....

Looking at it though, Rosen did fall to 10...CLE passed on him, the Jets passed, DEN passed, BUF traded up for Allen not Rosen and while ARI traded up a few spots to jump ahead of MIA and draft him, neither apparently felt it imperative to try and beat out BUF to 7 to take him there. Apparently their was some significant concerns for whatever reason with Rosen amongst the GMs. So for whatever that’s worth...who knows?

That’s not saying Rosen won’t have a long successful career...I always saw a bit of Aaron Rodgers in him which was why I favored him over Darnold. But I’m not an NFL GM.

I’ve come to understand the supposed logic of the Darnold over Rosen pick for all the reasons already stated namely injury history, attitude etc (though I think most of that is overblown). If there was one QB that the Jets took over Rosen in the draft, to me only Darnold made sense... so I can be happy about it and hope for the best.
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2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Thoroughly useless post. Petty and Hack are too. You’re sold on them?

Thank you. This was helpful and added value to the thread.

Yes, I’m aware I made a mistake and not the Jets. I’m hoping that holds true.

For everyone who feels butthurt that I would dare even create this thread, let me make this perfectly clear. Darnold is our guy. I’ll root for him as hard as I rooted for Sanchez even though I wasn’t sold on him either. I want Darnold throwing TDS in January and February for us for the next 15 years.

This thread was not created to bitch about the pick, it was for the opposite; to feel better about it. A lot of the posts so far - the above notwithstanding - have done that.

 

It’s actually a  great thread and I’m glad you made it. Enjoying everyone’s answers. I fell in love with Sam watching the 2016 Rosebowl. If you got time get a table full of food and drink and watch “ our boy” play that game. It’s one game but damn!!!

Plus at only 20 he could be our guy for twenty years. He seems to have the make up and durability for that. Again, excellent thread and thanks for sharing. 

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3 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I hate Debbie downers. This site is filled with them and is generally why I read the site 10x/day but average only 1 post/day. SOJF aren’t worth my time, I say. But today, I realize I sound like one.

I want to be happy and excited. I woke up yesterday like a 7 year old on Christmas, knowing we were going to get our choice of 2 of the top 3 QBs, knowing that there was no way we’d make the Allen mistake because I see Mac growing before our eyes, and knowing that we’d choose one of them. I cleared my entire afternoon even though I have a major deadline looming for today. I WFH, went to MetLife with my brother and best friend, tailgated with @Maxman and got to meet TailgateJoe. I was amped for the draft. I knew I’d be excited. 

However, standing there on the field at the 50 in MetLife while the Jets were on the clock, I found myself hoping for the most cerebral guy in the draft who happens to be able to make every single throw on the field, and when Goodell called Darnold, I found myself to be upset. I don’t want to feel this way. 

Someone please sell me on Darnold. Sell me on why his turnovers, small hands, minimal starting experience, and USC non-pro-style background are irrelevant or can be amended with age and experience.

Or better yet, someone go the other way and sell me on why Darnold will be throwing TDS in meaningful December and January (and hopefully February) games for the next 12-15 years.

 

Best QB in the draft. Highest ceiling, highest floor. What else you need?

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