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Is Bates The Right Coach?


New York Mick
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While from the fans' perspective it's difficult to know the full story of why, Bates has been pretty highly regarded as a QB savant in league circles for quite a long time, going back to his prior stint in the league.  He was in his 20s when he first started coaching in the NFL and was supposed to be some sort of child prodigy in that regard.  The Jets were pretty roundly praised for the move when they first brought him back into the league as their QB coach.

Of course we'll see how it plays it, but you kind of have to hope that he's done something to deserve the high opinion of him in the league, and that it translates to what he can do with Darnold.

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1 hour ago, Freemanm said:

I'm more worried about Todd Bowles' incompetence. Here's a brilliant quote from Him last night on whether Darnold will play next season:

"We're not going to throw him out there, but at the same time, we're not going to hold him back, either."

wow. What an insightful quote. Thanks for clarifying, Todd

Meh... what do you expect him to be saying in April?  I'm no Bowles fan, but there's a lot of effort around here to find things to bitch about with him.

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3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

This has been the main decision with my friends about the pick. Darnold biggest knock is the high turnovers (22 ints and 21 fumbles) which experts believe can be coached out but are Bowels and Bates the right ones to do it?

Will Bates coach Darnold up and become the new HC replacing Bowels or does he need to be replaced for a better option? 

Bates had better be the right guy.  He is probably the most important guy on the staff this season.

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27 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

More like is emotionless Bowles the right coach.  We all forget what a clueless moron he is in game and now he is charge of Darrnod's growth.  

At a loss how media people openly saying "Bowles has nothing to do with the offense" like that's a big selling point to him and for the Jets. An NFL HC who has nothing to do with his offense is worthless. Basically an argument to fire him yesterday. 

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5 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I couldn’t give a good answer because I don’t know enough about Bates. 

Scouting report on Jets offensive coordinator candidate Jeremy Bates

Rich Cimini ESPN Staff Writer  Jan 19, 2018

The top candidate for the New York Jets' offensive coordinator vacancy is Jeremy Bates, the team's quarterbacks coach, who has had drawn both praise and criticism in his polarizing career.

Once regarded as a young star in coaching, Bates flamed out in 2012, took a four-year hiatus (he spent part of it hiking the Rocky Mountains) and resurfaced last season with the Jets.

Coach Todd Bowles was impressed with Bates' work and might end up hiring him to replace John Morton, who was fired Wednesday. A scouting report on Bates:

Offensive system: Those who know him say Bates would probably install a West Coast-style passing game and a running scheme predicated on zone blocking -- similar to Morton's system.

"Just turn on the 2008 Mike Shanahan film," said Matt Hasselbeck, one of Bates' former quarterbacks and now a studio analyst for ESPN. "That's his vision for the offense he'd like to run."

He was referring to the '08 Denver Broncos, which ranked No. 2 in total offense. Those Denver teams were known for churning out 1,000-yard rushers, which appeals to Bowles, who has said the Jets didn't run the ball enough last season.

Distant Cousins: The quarterback-needy Jets are expected to have interest in Kirk Cousins, a potential free agent. He spent his first two seasons (2012 and 2013) playing for Shanahan with the Washington Redskins, so he'd be familiar with a Bates/Shanahan scheme. It's a bit of a stretch, but the Jets might think that could help them in a recruitment of Cousins.

Claim to fame: Bates was mentored by two bright offensive minds, Jon Gruden and Shanahan. He also was Jay Cutler's quarterbacks coach in 2008, his only Pro Bowl season. In a recent interview with ESPN.com, Shanahan called Bates a "very bright guy" and a "pretty special" coach. Bates' football intelligence never has been in question; some describe him as an X's and O's savant.

Biggest blemish on his résumé: In 2010, Bates followed Pete Carroll from Southern Cal to the Seattle Seahawks, but he lasted only one season as his offensive coordinator. Carroll, not known for having a quick hook, fired Bates with three years left on his contract. With Bates calling the plays, the Seahawks finished 28th in total offense and 31st in rushing. At the time, Carroll said he made the change because of "philosophical issues," saying "we saw things differently."

Coaching style: Bates is direct and brutally honest. Some people appreciate his candid approach; others are chafed by it. In Seattle, he was vocal in his support of Hasselbeck, who had an up-and-down year -- perhaps too vocal. Some believed it rubbed people the wrong way and might have contributed to his dismissal. Bates, only 34 at the time, had some maturity issues. That was eight years ago, and the Jets evidently believe he has outgrown them.

Play calling: There are many facets to the coordinator job, but the biggest responsibility is calling plays. Hasselbeck said he liked Bates as a playcaller, saying, "He's very fiery. He has kind of a temper. There's an aggressiveness to him during the week, but on game day he's very calm, very poised. It's really remarkable. It's night and day. Usually it's the other way around with coaches. They're laid back during the week, then on Sunday they act like they're hyped up on Red Bull. Jeremy is the opposite."

Final verdict: Hasselbeck spoke glowingly of Bates' football acumen and playcalling ability. Asked whether he'd be a good coordinator for the Jets, Hasselbeck said "it depends" on the rest of the offensive staff, meaning he believes coaches need to be compatible. As he said, "You have to put the pieces of the puzzle together."

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/74197/scouting-report-on-jeremy-bates-candidate-for-jets-coordinator-post

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posted a few months ago

The Broncos Playcalling Explained

By John Bena  Sep 22, 2008, 5:20am MDT

There has been alot of talk about who actually calls the offensive plays for the Broncos, and just how the offensive gameplan is determined.  Well, Peter King gives us the explanation, part of his MMQB -- 

Mike Shanahan hasn't called the offensive plays in Denver for nine years.

Admit it: That surprises you. It stunned me when I learned about it Saturday in Denver. He gave it up after the Broncos started 0-4 in 1999. Gary Kubiak held the responsibility the longest, before becoming Houston's coach in 2006. Now it's up to 32-year-old quarterback coach Jeremy Bates, who calls the plays into quarterback Jay Cutler's headset, with Shanahan having the option to overrule him. He rarely does. Shanahan might make a play call or trump Bates' call two or three times a game.

The gameplan is a collaborative effort between offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who is responsible for run plays and protections, and Bates, who draws up the passes. Shanahan makes some suggestions during the week while the gameplan is being formulated, but it's mostly a Dennison/Bates production. Dennison and Bates also come up with the "First 18,'' Denver's version of the old Bill Walsh "First 15,'' when the first 18 offensive snaps of the game are set in stone (except if a third-and-inches call, for instance, has to be made).

Dennison and Bates figure out which run plays and pass plays will work best each week against the defense they're playing, then list them by down-and-distance, print them on a laminated play sheet, and call the plays from that sheet on gameday. Bates makes the calls, a heavy responsibility for such a young coach. But it's a natural fit. Bates is the one meeting with Cutler all week and finding out what plays he thinks are the best fit for that week's opponent. It makes sense that the coach communicating with Cutler most one-on-one during the week is the one calling the plays into his helmet during games.

So there you have it.  According to King, and several other media outlets, Shanahan has very little to do with the game plan/playcalling.

It also came out yesterday that Shanny has very little contact with Jay Cutler during the week, with even less being about football.  Perhaps that is for the best.  Jake Plummer's best season in Denver was when he had the buffer of Gary Kubiak.  The fact that Jeremy Bates is a younger guy probably works best with a young quarterback in Cutler.

No matter what is happening, the Broncos are winning, that is the most important stat of all!!

https://www.milehighreport.com/2008/9/22/619243/the-broncos-playcalling-ex

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4 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Bowles is on his 3rd OC in 4 years as HC. The odds are not good on this one.

How can Bowles know what a good OC is?   He has nothing to do with offense.  For some reason DCs cannot see things from the other side.  You would think they would know how they do not like to be attacked, but duh.  Rex was the same.

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5 minutes ago, jack48 said:

How can Bowles know what a good OC is?   He has nothing to do with offense.  For some reason DCs cannot see things from the other side.  You would think they would know how they do not like to be attacked, but duh.  Rex was the same.

What your defining is a bad HC. A HC absolutely doesn't need to run all 3 phases from an X's and O's standpoint, but they damn better well be able to pick good coordinators.

I think BP's best traits as a HC was his ability to pick great coordinators.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/27/2018 at 7:47 AM, New York Mick said:

This has been the main decision with my friends about the pick. Darnold biggest knock is the high turnovers (22 ints and 21 fumbles) which experts believe can be coached out but are Bowels and Bates the right ones to do it?

Will Bates coach Darnold up and become the new HC replacing Bowels or does he need to be replaced for a better option? 

at this moment, your question CANNOT be answered....ask again in a year or two  or three.

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55 minutes ago, C Mart said:

“He’d come into our meetings and just go, ‘Let’s go kick some ******* ass,” Whitehurst recalled. “’Let’s go hang 50 on these mother****ers. We’re here to kick ass, strut around, throw the perfect pass and puff out our chest.’ And why wouldn’t you act like that? Everyone feels it! We’re in the NFL! He’s the guy that just made me think, ‘Man, this is awesome. This is what it’s all about.’

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Bates is the right guy for the job. 

When you have a guy like Bates as O-coordinator and QB coach in one, Bowles being the head coach simply doesn't matter as much. I.E. Bates does not have to be the head coach for Darnold to develop into a Pro Bowl QB. 

Bowles is a defensive guy and has failed miserably (IMO) to maintain a high level of defensive play with the talent he had. He is also a terrible in game coach and as everyone has attested- bad at in game adjustments. These two things could very well hurt the Jets in the win column but shouldn't really change how Darnold develops. 

JMHO. 

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1 minute ago, PepPep said:

Bates is the right guy for the job. 

When you have a guy like Bates as O-coordinator and QB coach in one, Bowles being the head coach simply doesn't matter as much. I.E. Bates does not have to be the head coach for Darnold to develop into a Pro Bowl QB. 

Bowles is a defensive guy and has failed miserably (IMO) to maintain a high level of defensive play with the talent he had. He is also a terrible in game coach and as everyone has attested- bad at in game adjustments. These two things could very well hurt the Jets in the win column but shouldn't really change how Darnold develops. 

JMHO. 

He’s like a skinny Rex with a really good tan and no personality. 

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On 4/27/2018 at 7:47 AM, New York Mick said:

This has been the main decision with my friends about the pick. Darnold biggest knock is the high turnovers (22 ints and 21 fumbles) which experts believe can be coached out but are Bowels and Bates the right ones to do it?

Will Bates coach Darnold up and become the new HC replacing Bowels or does he need to be replaced for a better option? 

At all the things to contemplate, this is what you come up with. Spend less time wasting your time.

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On 4/27/2018 at 10:36 AM, Bleedin Green said:

Meh... what do you expect him to be saying in April?  I'm no Bowles fan, but there's a lot of effort around here to find things to bitch about with him.

Not a huge fan either, but it's worth noting that absolute garbage like Fitzpatrick and McCown have had career best years under him. 

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1 hour ago, C Mart said:

Bates and Sam Darnold were attached at the hip during last week’s rookie minicamp. You couldn’t find one without the other. Before every rep. After every snap. Where there was the coordinator, you got the rookie QB.

If Darnold’s footwork seemed off, Bates mimicked how it should look. If Darnold went to the wrong read, Bates emulated against air what he should have done. When Darnold got it all right, Bates was the first to engage with a forceful high-five and words of encouragement.

This is the kind of thing I want to read. Completely immersive coaching. 

I just hope it's not too much on Bates' plate to be both the OC and the QB coach, because I like the arrangement. Bates is teaching Darnold how to be the QB in his system and is working intensely with him to while developing that system, too. For that to work, I think his other position coaches have to be autonomous, but also 100% on the same page. The OL coach has to be able to implement this zone-blocking scheme with a minimum of input from Bates, the WR coach has to teach these receivers where to be and how to get there without the OC looking over his shoulder, etc. Bates' #1 job is developing Darnold, which means getting him up and ready ASAP as well as creating an offense that gets the most out of his skills. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

This is the kind of thing I want to read. Completely immersive coaching. 

I just hope it's not too much on Bates' plate to be both the OC and the QB coach, because I like the arrangement. Bates is teaching Darnold how to be the QB in his system and is working intensely with him to while developing that system, too. For that to work, I think his other position coaches have to be autonomous, but also 100% on the same page. The OL coach has to be able to implement this zone-blocking scheme with a minimum of input from Bates, the WR coach has to teach these receivers where to be and how to get there without the OC looking over his shoulder, etc. Bates' #1 job is developing Darnold, which means getting him up and ready ASAP as well as creating an offense that gets the most out of his skills. 

Jets have Asst QB Coach Mick Lombardi. OL coach Dennison and Bates worked together in Denver. 

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3 hours ago, slats said:

This is the kind of thing I want to read. Completely immersive coaching. 

I just hope it's not too much on Bates' plate to be both the OC and the QB coach, because I like the arrangement. Bates is teaching Darnold how to be the QB in his system and is working intensely with him to while developing that system, too. For that to work, I think his other position coaches have to be autonomous, but also 100% on the same page. The OL coach has to be able to implement this zone-blocking scheme with a minimum of input from Bates, the WR coach has to teach these receivers where to be and how to get there without the OC looking over his shoulder, etc. Bates' #1 job is developing Darnold, which means getting him up and ready ASAP as well as creating an offense that gets the most out of his skills. 

I think Dennison's experience as an OC and Oline coach will allow him to help pick up some of the slack from Bates holding OC and QB coach.  More importantly, I think the fact that they worked together in the past will allow them to bypass some growing pains that 2 guys who arent necessarily on the same page from day one may have.  

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On 4/27/2018 at 4:47 AM, New York Mick said:

This has been the main decision with my friends about the pick. Darnold biggest knock is the high turnovers (22 ints and 21 fumbles) which experts believe can be coached out but are Bowels and Bates the right ones to do it?

Will Bates coach Darnold up and become the new HC replacing Bowels or does he need to be replaced for a better option? 

I am completely unconcerned about his interceptions or fumbles.

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Everything will be fine. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Don’t get complacent. We don’t want to be those types of fans. When the time comes, keep the responses simple... for example (this last championship feels like the first one or I’m just honored to be able to cheer for this team etc).

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On 4/27/2018 at 7:51 AM, Stark said:

Bates coached Jay Cutler to his best seasons. Let’s hope he can get Sam playing at a high level

maybe he would've been better with rosen.  imo bates, from all i've read, should do well with darnold.  he's been around but is still young enough to adapt a bit to his players.

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