Is Bates The Right Coach?

[New York Mick]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am completely unconcerned about his interceptions or fumbles.

It’s basically the only concern “experts” have about him so it’s something to look at. 

[greenwichjetfan]

Is Mac playing the long game again, just as he did last year when he didn’t take Watson because he liked this year’s QB class more?

There’s something to be said about the fact that Bates is going to get a full year to work directly with Darnold to get him through first year logistics and lumps and to build a rapport with him.

If after this coming season, the Jets decide to move on from Bowles and promote Bates, Darnold theoretically will be better positioned to not need as much 1 on 1 time with Bates, and they’ll hopefully have the kind of relationship that most winning QB and HC duos have.

[C Mart]

4 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Is Mac playing the long game again, just as he did last year when he didn’t take Watson because he liked this year’s QB class more?

There’s something to be said about the fact that Bates is going to get a full year to work directly with Darnold to get him through first year logistics and lumps and to build a rapport with him.

If after this coming season, the Jets decide to move on from Bowles and promote Bates, Darnold theoretically will be better positioned to not need as much 1 on 1 time with Bates, and they’ll hopefully have the kind of relationship that most winning QB and HC duos have.

I think people should slow down w/the Bates as HC talk.  It doesn't sound like he likes all the bs that goes along w/HC ie media, press conf, interviews etc..Seems he just wants to coach. Maybe that changes over time. 

[#27TheDominator]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:22 AM, New York Mick said:

 

That makes me feel better. I didn’t know much about Bates outside of Cutler throwing a ton of ints under his coaching. 

Maybe the future HC of the Jets. 

Actually Cutler threw more picks under other coaches.  Bates coached Cutler 2006-2008.  In 2009 when Cutler was heaving 26 picks, Bates was at USC.  Bates coached Cutler 3 years in Denver and 1 in Chicago, his INTs were under control under Bates compared to other coordinators. 

[#27TheDominator]

22 hours ago, BCJet said:

I think Dennison's experience as an OC and Oline coach will allow him to help pick up some of the slack from Bates holding OC and QB coach.  More importantly, I think the fact that they worked together in the past will allow them to bypass some growing pains that 2 guys who arent necessarily on the same page from day one may have.  

+1

I think Bates called plays when he was QB coach and Dennison was OC.

[Jetsplayer21]

If Bates doesn’t show he can handle the job, Bowles and possible Mac are all gone next yr 

[C Mart]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

+1

I think Bates called plays when he was QB coach and Dennison was OC.

He did. Dennison drew up the run plays and protections while Bates designed the pass plays and called the plays on game days. 

The gameplan is a collaborative effort between offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who is responsible for run plays and protections, and Bates, who draws up the passes. Shanahan makes some suggestions during the week while the gameplan is being formulated, but it's mostly a Dennison/Bates production. Dennison and Bates also come up with the "First 18,'' Denver's version of the old Bill Walsh"First 15,'' when the first 18 offensive snaps of the game are set in stone (except if a third-and-inches call, for instance, has to be made).

Dennison and Bates figure out which run plays and pass plays will work best each week against the defense they're playing, then list them by down-and-distance, print them on a laminated play sheet, and call the plays from that sheet on gameday. Bates makes the calls, a heavy responsibility for such a young coach. But it's a natural fit. Bates is the one meeting with Cutler all week and finding out what plays he thinks are the best fit for that week's opponent. It makes sense that the coach communicating with Cutler most one-on-one during the week is the one calling the plays into his helmet during games.

 

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, rangerous said:

i get you but maybe it should with college interceptions and fumbles.

Nah, lots of superior NFL QBs have had a lot of interceptions in college including the new $150 million dollar man. It shows that they are confident and willing to try difficult throws. At Darnolds age being really aggressive is the only way to know his limits and I greatly prefer that to never taking any chances like Alex Smith. Darnold is a playmaker, he will never be the lowest INT guy but he will make up for that with more game deciding "OMFG did you just see that" plays. the fumbling is easily correctable but he will always fumble more than average.

[slats]

On 5/9/2018 at 10:21 AM, C Mart said:

[Pete Carroll] liked Hasselbeck under center, but preached ball control over aggression — just don’t turn it over. Hasselbeck, in what would be his last year in Seattle, did his best to buy in. It just didn’t work.

The more he tried not to turn it over, the more he did. Through 10 games, he threw 11 interceptions. He was frustrated, distraught, discouraged. Then he received a message from his 33-year-old offensive coordinator.

Jeremy Bates observed Hasselbeck driving home from practice earlier in the week. Born and raised in Massachusetts, the quarterback had a rather aggressive nature behind the wheel and a lead foot. He passed cars left and right, accelerated to a stop. Dangerous? Maybe, but driving this way made Hasselbeck, who’d never been in an accident, comfortable. So Bates called him aside before a practice.

“He said, ‘When you see student drivers driving, 10-2 safe, or old ladies defensive driving, that’s not the safest way to drive,'” Hasselbeck recalled to The Athletic. “’I need you to play quarterback the way you drive. I need you to commit to throws. I need you to be offensive. I need you to be sure about yourself. Not oh my gosh don’t screw it up.’

“My mindset just switched.”

In his next game, Hasselbeck completed 62.5 percent of his passes and threw for 242 yards with a touchdown and no interceptions. The Seahawks beat the Bears, 23-20.

 

This is the part of the article that I like best about Bates, and why I think he's the right coach for Darnold. I think Sam is something of a gunslinger, and probably a guy who's going to throw his share of ints every year. But, imho, it's more important that he remains confident, believes in himself, and continues to push the ball down the field than anything else. I suspect we have something of an Eli or Favre here. A guy who will throw picks but come back and make big plays. I think you have to let the kid play and let him learn on his own. Pete Carroll here sounds a lot like Rex Ryan's red light/green light system that -I'm sure- helped in Mark Sanchez' anti-development. You can't play this sport afraid to fail, you have to play striving to succeed. 

Darnold certainly doesn't want to throw interceptions or fumble the football, and he'll live and learn. The focus has to be on developing his big-play ability rather than on eliminating his negatives. Sure, let's get both of his smallish hands on the football when he's moving around in the pocket, that's not gonna change who he is, but he has to always have the green light to let it rip if he sees a window. He'll make some bad throws and he'll learn from them. He needs room to blossom into his full potential. 

[C Mart]

42 minutes ago, slats said:

This is the part of the article that I like best about Bates, and why I think he's the right coach for Darnold. I think Sam is something of a gunslinger, and probably a guy who's going to throw his share of ints every year. But, imho, it's more important that he remains confident, believes in himself, and continues to push the ball down the field than anything else. I suspect we have something of an Eli or Favre here. A guy who will throw picks but come back and make big plays. I think you have to let the kid play and let him learn on his own. Pete Carroll here sounds a lot like Rex Ryan's red light/green light system that -I'm sure- helped in Mark Sanchez' anti-development. You can't play this sport afraid to fail, you have to play striving to succeed. 

Darnold certainly doesn't want to throw interceptions or fumble the football, and he'll live and learn. The focus has to be on developing his big-play ability rather than on eliminating his negatives. Sure, let's get both of his smallish hands on the football when he's moving around in the pocket, that's not gonna change who he is, but he has to always have the green light to let it rip if he sees a window. He'll make some bad throws and he'll learn from them. He needs room to blossom into his full potential. 

NDIANAPOLIS -- USC quarterback Sam Darnold's hands measured 9 3/8 inches at the NFL Scouting Combine on Thursday. NFL.com analyst Daniel Jeremiah first reported the news.

Daniel Jeremiah✔@MoveTheSticks

Sam Darnold
6’3 3/8
221
Hand 9 3/8

9:05 AM - Mar 1, 2018

In scouting circles, bigger hands are said to be especially helpful to quarterbacks in cold weather, where a numb grip can result in more turnovers. Darnold's measurement is adequate, though not outstanding by the standard measurement at the position. Cleveland Browns coach Hue Jackson, who has been outspoken about the importance of a bigger QB hand, joked Wednesday that he likes a 10-inch hand in his passers.

Darnold falls right in the middle for hand measurements among the last six QBs to be picked in the draft's first round.

#NFLCombine hand measurements for last 6 first-round QBs. Darnold's hand size fits right in middle of group.

Jared Goff - 9 inches
Paxton Lynch - 10 1/4 inches
Patrick Mahomes - 9 1/4 inches
Mitchell Trubisky - 9 1/2 inches
Deshaun Watson - 9 3/4 inches
Carson Wentz - 10 inches https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/969197055129382912 …

9:46 AM - Mar 1, 2018

UCLA QB Josh Rosen measured with 9 7/8-inch hands at the combine on Thursday, while Louisville QB Lamar Jackson's measured 9 1/2 inches. Wyoming's Josh Allen had the biggest hand measurement at 10 1/8 inches. Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield had one of the smallest hands among combine QBs with a measurement of 9 1/4 inches.

In a combine preview, Jeremiah noted scouting concern that Darnold's hands were on the small side, contributing to a high turnover rate in his junior and final season at USC.

Darnold has elected not to throw at the combine this week, so clubs won't have a chance to evaluate him live as a passer until his March 21 pro day

[C Mart]

[slats]

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

UCLA QB Josh Rosen measured with 9 7/8-inch hands at the combine on Thursday, while Louisville QB Lamar Jackson's measured 9 1/2 inches. Wyoming's Josh Allen had the biggest hand measurement at 10 1/8 inches. Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield had one of the smallest hands among combine QBs with a measurement of 9 1/4 inches.

I am glad that Darnold is here, but his hands are on the small side. Just 1/8" larger than renowned dwarf Baker Mayfield. It's not a debate, and it's something that he'll have to overcome working in the NE. 

The most encouraging thing about your next post is that Aaron Rogers has the same size hands. Cool! Everyone else on that list who has the same size hands or smaller either never won anything or sucks outright. It's a thing. 

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I am glad that Darnold is here, but his hands are on the small side. Just 1/8" larger than renowned dwarf Baker Mayfield. It's not a debate, and it's something that he'll have to overcome working in the NE. 

The most encouraging thing about your next post is that Aaron Rogers has the same size hands. Cool! Everyone else on that list who has the same size hands or smaller either never won anything or sucks outright. It's a thing. 

It is a thing, but I have an opinion it can be overcome, or a non issue if your grip strength is very strong, I’m very shocked grip strength isn’t talked about when it comes to QB’s, if I had to bet I’d bet Rodgers has one of the strongest grips in the league.

[Jetscreen]

On 4/27/2018 at 7:47 AM, New York Mick said:

This has been the main decision with my friends about the pick. Darnold biggest knock is the high turnovers (22 ints and 21 fumbles) which experts believe can be coached out but are Bowels and Bates the right ones to do it?

Will Bates coach Darnold up and become the new HC replacing Bowels or does he need to be replaced for a better option? 

No. They both suck and there isn't enough talent on the team to begin with.

[MDL_JET]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If Bates doesn’t show he can handle the job, Bowles and possible Mac are all gone next yr 

Fans are a lot closer to the idea of change then Chris Johnson actually is. Mac ain’t going anywhere. Bowles maybe 50/50. 

[Jetsplayer21]

On 5/9/2018 at 3:44 PM, Greenseed4 said:

If Darnold throws interceptions WHO GIVES A ****?

20-4 college winning record

Usc is always good though. I bet they even had a good record when mark Sanchez played for them lol. 

We need to give Sam a lot more help on O. It’s criminal to put him out there with current O.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Fans are a lot closer to the idea of change then Chris Johnson actually is. Mac ain’t going anywhere. Bowles maybe 50/50. 

Mac must break his allegiance to Bowles and put offense WAY ahead of the D now. Since it’s been the other way around for YEARS, we have a lot to make up for to give the support darnold needs and deserves. Bowles is not going to be happy with Mac if that actually happens. But Mac will be out the door soon enough if darnold doesn’t do well because of continued O neglect. 

[Hitman Harris]

On 5/9/2018 at 11:51 AM, jetstream23 said:

He has a lot of history with QBs and will help Darnold master the position.  We need to trust Master Bates.

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Usc is always good though. I bet they even had a good record when mark Sanchez played for them lol. 

We need to give Sam a lot more help on O. It’s criminal to put him out there with current O.

Nah. USC was barely over 500 in the 24 games prior to Darnold taking over. His coaches have giving him a lot of credit for helping turn that franchise around. Remember USC went into a funk after the whole Reggie Bush scandal. It wasn’t until Darnold became QB that they became a powerhouse again.

[jetstream23]

44 minutes ago, Hitman Harris said:

You monocled me you bastid!  

[David Harris]

 In 2014, Bates hiked the 2,900-mile Continental Divide Trail (CDT), completing a five-month trek across the Continental Divide Trail from Mexico to Canada alone, trekking 20–30 miles per day with a 40 to 60 pound backpack.

[detectivekimble]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Nah, lots of superior NFL QBs have had a lot of interceptions in college including the new $150 million dollar man. It shows that they are confident and willing to try difficult throws. At Darnolds age being really aggressive is the only way to know his limits and I greatly prefer that to never taking any chances like Alex Smith. Darnold is a playmaker, he will never be the lowest INT guy but he will make up for that with more game deciding "OMFG did you just see that" plays. the fumbling is easily correctable but he will always fumble more than average.

The fumbling is actually an easy fix.  The dude always takes his left hand off the ball.  He even acknowledged in a recent interview that's why he fumbles.

[joebabyny]

6 minutes ago, David Harris said:

 In 2014, Bates hiked the 2,900-mile Continental Divide Trail (CDT), completing a five-month trek across the Continental Divide Trail from Mexico to Canada alone, trekking 20–30 miles per day with a 40 to 60 pound backpack.

That’s no joke, that trail goes through some serious grizzly population areas 

[New York Mick]

5 hours ago, David Harris said:

 In 2014, Bates hiked the 2,900-mile Continental Divide Trail (CDT), completing a five-month trek across the Continental Divide Trail from Mexico to Canada alone, trekking 20–30 miles per day with a 40 to 60 pound backpack.

Half the drywallers and pickers here made the hike from Central America to Florida that’s 2900 miles as well. 

[New York Mick]

6 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

The fumbling is actually an easy fix.  The dude always takes his left hand off the ball.  He even acknowledged in a recent interview that's why he fumbles.

His college coaches didn’t fix this? His little league coach should of. 

[UnknownJetFan]

On 4/27/2018 at 9:22 AM, SayNoToDMC said:

I can only go off his Job so far here. Josh McCown is who I figure the QB coach is this year. Bates couldn't coach Hackenburg to a single NFL snap in a lost year and Petty didn't improve at all. I'll grant I have no idea if Bates sucks or he's just been given hot garbage to work with. I guess we'll see

I'd say the latter. Petty Hot garbage, Hack needing more time to develop and a major project that fits the mold of the old time where a QB needs 3 years before he sees an NFL snap. Blame the college system and scenario he was in for that and of course the over value and scouting of taking him as a second rounder.

[David Harris]

Reading All the background on Jeremy is in lightning. But I am still nervous about his personality fit with Sam. But I think they are both ALL about football and that’s all that should matter to them.

[jetspenguin]

On 4/27/2018 at 5:57 AM, NoBowles said:

Certainly not going to happen at this point, I would be stunned if it does. So now pretty much no matter what, our young QB prospect will be assured 2 OC's and 2 systems in first 2 years. Not exactly the way to develop a QB.

That's what Hack Said ?

[Jet Life]

18 hours ago, New York Mick said:

His college coaches didn’t fix this? His little league coach should of. 

He was a linebacker and WR in high school then switched to QB. due to injury only started a full year which was  his senior year then the 2 years at USC. Still a lot of learning left for him , upside is huge !

[New York Mick]

13 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

He was a linebacker and WR in high school then switched to QB. due to injury only started a full year which was  his senior year then the 2 years at USC. Still a lot of learning left for him , upside is huge !

Playing LB will help with the turnovers lol