What do you think of Allen going to the Bills?

[DMan77]

Dude has a big arm... He's going to throw a highlight worthy 80 yard pass once or twice...

But that's about it. I feel he's missing some core components of being a QB. He's not accurate enough. He hasn't been great when his first choice of receiver is off the table. His foot work is spotty.

So I don't know. I'm sure he'll start. And at some point he'll burn the defense for a huge play with that arm strength... But I think he'll struggle to be consistently good. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The move was kind of a bargain when you consider who was available.

Ok, so what would gou have had as the market value and what would have been a premium? 

[slimjasi]

It could work out great for them. Who knows. 

But last night, I would be lying if I said I wasn't very happy they took him instead of Rosen. I'm not sh*tting on the pick, though. I'm just higher on Rosen. Allen could absolutely turn into a stud in the right situation. 

[BCJet]

11 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Do you have any idea what the Colts would have gotten for that pick had they waited until draft day and Darnold was available?

Do I know? Not at all but it seems like they were comfortable taking three 2nd rounders from us. 

Mac made a great trade at the time and even better in hindsight.

Cool but can we agree the move wasn't cheap which what I was originally responding to?

Its difficult to find an answer with the words cheap and bargain.  A Bentley isnt cheap, but if the sticker price is $225K and I get it for $180K, thats a bargain but certainly not cheap.

The draft capital itself wasnt cheap, 3 second rounders have a lot of value on their own, but for what we received, it was a bargain.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The move was kind of a bargain when you consider who was available.

Yeah. Nobody says no to 6 and three twos for Darnold at any point in the last three months.

[derp]

When I watched Allen, I liked his talent a lot. Thought his accuracy was better than it gets credit for with the low completion percentage.

Biggest concern was his tendency to go underneath despite his arm talent. Take a guy with the best arm in the league and make him do the stuff Sanchez did after the coaching staff completely broke him. Didn't hate the way he handled pressure either but there were times I wasn't a fan.

Overall my eyes told me he was a big time prospect. Liked the positives more than the negatives and loved the potential cold weather fit. Struck me partially as Roethlisberger-esque, partially as kind of a Stafford/Newton hybrid.

That said, I didn't really want him here. Whatever my eyes told me, he'll be a major outlier if he's successful with how his statistics played out in college. Didn't feel good about rolling those dice. I don't trust my eyes that much.

Mixed feelings about him ending up in Buffalo but I would've been more worried if they took Rosen. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

Its difficult to find an answer with the words cheap and bargain.  A Bentley isnt cheap, but if the sticker price is $225K and I get it for $180K, thats a bargain but certainly not cheap.

The draft capital itself wasnt cheap, 3 second rounders have a lot of value on their own, but for what we received, it was a bargain.

Just like that Bentley these picks have a value associated with them. Not all value charts are the same but in general are close. Therefore I ask you what's the market value (for one) and what's paying a premium (2). Then I'll do the favor and slice it all up in reference to your Bently comparison.

[Jet Nut]

Didnt they have the same QB in Cardale Jones?  

[LAD_Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, derp said:

When I watched Allen, I liked his talent a lot. Thought his accuracy was better than it gets credit for with the low completion percentage.

Biggest concern was his tendency to go underneath despite his arm talent. Take a guy with the best arm in the league and make him do the stuff Sanchez did after the coaching staff completely broke him. Didn't hate the way he handled pressure either but there were times I wasn't a fan.

Overall my eyes told me he was a big time prospect. Liked the positives more than the negatives and loved the potential cold weather fit. Struck me partially as Roethlisberger-esque, partially as kind of a Stafford/Newton hybrid.

That said, I didn't really want him here. Whatever my eyes told me, he'll be a major outlier if he's successful with how his statistics played out in college. Didn't feel good about rolling those dice. I don't trust my eyes that much.

Mixed feelings about him ending up in Buffalo but I would've been more worried if they took Rosen. 

That's fair, but calling him the next Hack in mind blowing. 

[Jetsplayer21]

Very happy they didn’t get Rosen or mayfield 

[JoJoTownsell1]

18 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Do you have any idea what the Colts would have gotten for that pick had they waited until draft day and Darnold was available?

Do I know? Not at all but it seems like they were comfortable taking three 2nd rounders from us. 

Mac made a great trade at the time and even better in hindsight.

Cool but can we agree the move wasn't cheap which what I was originally responding to?

Yeah, they were picking 3rd and didn't need a QB so to move back 3 spaces to get the best RB/Edge Rusher/Lineman was a no brainer for them. You think they make that trade if they needed a QB?

Should i recite to  you the list of teams in the last 3 years that traded up, gave up "too much" to get the QB they wanted? How about the Rams/Eagles/Houston/KC/Bills/Cards

18 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Do you have any idea what the Colts would have gotten for that pick had they waited until draft day and Darnold was available?

Do I know? Not at all but it seems like they were comfortable taking three 2nd rounders from us. 

Mac made a great trade at the time and even better in hindsight.

Cool but can we agree the move wasn't cheap which what I was originally responding to?

Would you feel better if we traded away 3 2nds to move from 6th to 1st? Because according to the trade chart we would have needed to give up 1400 pts in value to go from 6 to 1. That's our 1st this year, both seconds this year, next years second AND 300ish pts just to get to even on the trade chart. 

[Freemanm]

I think they gave up way too much for Allen. Darnold or Mayfield, yes, but Allen? Shows how desperate they are. Can't wait to see Johnson and Claiborne have field days against him next year

[parcellsguy]

Troy Aikman on Josh Allen: "I think as a quarterback when you're inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that."

[ZachEY]

19 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Ok, so what would gou have had as the market value and what would have been a premium? 

With Darnold and Rosen available, I'd have paid this years 1 and 2, and next years 1 and 2, easily.

[BCJet]

11 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Just like that Bentley these picks have a value associated with them. Not all value charts are the same but in general are close. Therefore I ask you what's the market value (for one) and what's paying a premium (2). Then I'll do the favor and slice it all up in reference to your Bently comparison.

The chart said that we "overpaid", I believe by the price of one of the picks.  However the chart doesnt take into account circumstances.  We traded up for a QB (much like the eagles and rams) so given that the seller of the pick is valuing knowing there will be a possible franchise QB there, the price goes up.

[NoBowles]

I heard Simms talking about Allen. He said that there is something technical that he does at times that causes him to be inaccurate in short range throws that everyone who knows QB's, knows they can fix in 2 minutes.

My first thought was, does nobody at Wyoming know about this magical fix?

My second thought was, well, all the evaluators have him as a high prospect despite this, so this isn't Hackenberg. So they must mostly be seeing the same thing that Simms is seeing.

I am very happy we don't have him, I don't trust that its a 2 minute fix, and even if it was, we would screw that up somehow.

That said, I am nervous about him going to a division rival. IF, and its a decent sized IF, he fixes his short range inaccuracy, he could be an absolute beast, and exactly what they need in the North East in December/January. 

I wish he had gone to the NFC

[derp]

14 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

That's fair, but calling him the next Hack in mind blowing. 

Yeah I didn't see a lot of overlap between him and Hackenberg.

The Russell comparisons never made sense to me either. Russell didn't fail because he had a big arm, he failed because he was extraordinarily lazy.

We'll see how he shakes out. I liked him more than general consensus but I've been wrong before and again, betting on someone overcoming not meeting key statistical thresholds is a gamble I wouldn't have wanted to take.

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, HessStation said:

I think it's perfect and makes for a great, fun rivalry for years. You actually hope Allen is good for the sake of that. Good but not as good as Darnold. 

 

Plus, these guys became super close and trained together with Palmer during this whole process. Awesome stuff!!! ....as long as Darnold becomes the better QB lol

Allen is buil like a Clydesdale. I always thought Buffalo be nice place for a Clydesdale. Good fit. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

20 minutes ago, BCJet said:

The chart said that we "overpaid", I believe by the price of one of the picks.  However the chart doesnt take into account circumstances.  We traded up for a QB (much like the eagles and rams) so given that the seller of the pick is valuing knowing there will be a possible franchise QB there, the price goes up.

Which is exactly what I thought and along the lines of what I originally said in this not being a bargain, however acceptable considering it was for a QB.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

We paid a premium, only thing that made it acceptable was we did it for a QB. But indeed we paid a premium. 

We still have our first rounder next year, and the year after that.  So no, we really didn't. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

33 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah, they were picking 3rd and didn't need a QB so to move back 3 spaces to get the best RB/Edge Rusher/Lineman was a no brainer for them. You think they make that trade if they needed a QB?

Should i recite to  you the list of teams in the last 3 years that traded up, gave up "too much" to get the QB they wanted? How about the Rams/Eagles/Houston/KC/Bills/Cards

Would you feel better if we traded away 3 2nds to move from 6th to 1st? Because according to the trade chart we would have needed to give up 1400 pts in value to go from 6 to 1. That's our 1st this year, both seconds this year, next years second AND 300ish pts just to get to even on the trade chart. 

So your point is that those team paid a premium to get those guys correct? If so you agree with me that there wasn't any bargain involved in those trade neither ours.

Would I have felt better or not is besides the point and I think the more we converse we steer away from the point. The point is we didn't get a bargain, which is far from reality. Were we satisfied with the payment? Probably so but we didnt get a bargain. 

[Lego My Lageman]

I dont think hell be a bust, perfect fit. The worst of the 4 though.....

[BCJet]

33 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Which is exactly what I thought and along the lines of what I originally said in this not being a bargain, however acceptable considering it was for a QB.

I completely disagree.  You are using bargain as if the item purchased remained at the same price, when in actuality what we purchased is a commodity that rose in price, thereby making what we paid a bargain.

We paid "more then the chart said" for what the league perceived to be the 2nd or 3rd best QB on the board.  Then the Browns went and did Brownsnian things and the consensus #1 player fell to that pick and that pick suddenly became more valuable.  Was it hindsight, yes, but the price changed.

If you want to say Mac overpaid at the time, fine thats a fair argument that others have made.  But with the ability to use hindsight, the trade/price we paid became a bargain once sam darnold became available.

[bitonti]

the best story I heard (from this year) was the Jets fan who went out and got a hammer and was waiting for the Jets to pick Josh Allen so he could go ham on his tv last night 

And his family no doubt would just have to watch Daddy lose his sh*t... again 

"Put Daddy's Hammer, away, Sweetie.  It's not Josh Allen." 

oh Jets fans, don't ever change 

 

[Philc1]

That OL is going to get him killed

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Amazing that they didn't take Rosen. I like Allen and believe he will be a very good QB if he's given a chance to develop. Question is, does Buffalo have that luxury? Probably not. He's screwed.

[BCJet]

20 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

That OL is going to get him killed

God you are an insufferable complainer.

Our line with Spencer Long and a healthy winters is significantly improved from 2017 and we havent even gotten through the 3rd or 4th round which could produce an improvement for Carpenter.

[UntouchableCrew]

Not scared at all. I thought he'd bust anywhere but a QB wasteland with no offensive line like Buffalo is a terrible situation for him.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, BCJet said:

Do you have any idea what the Colts would have gotten for that pick had they waited until draft day and Darnold was available? 

They made that deal when the entire league was essentially debating between mayfield and rosen because the consensus was Darnold was going 1.

Mac made a great trade at the time and even better in hindsight.

This is a HUGE point. Had the Colts waited, the price to get to 3 with Darnold on the board would have been dramatically higher, likley including our first as well.

[Obrien2Toon]

I think he’ll be good 

[MaxAF]

He could end up being a J. Russell or a Ben Roethlisberger..... or somewhere in between. Dude does have a cannon arm and is very athletic but that doesn’t add up to being a great QB. He’s definitely a risk and where the Bills are right now, a risk worth taking.

[NYs Stepchild]

UnBillievable 

[MaxAF]

 

[jetstream23]

Of the Top 4 QBs, I think the teams that did the best are the Jets and Cardinals.  Maccagnan found the sweet spot of the draft and he found it over a month ago with a very, very shrewd trade to #3.  The Bills took a risk.  It may work out for them but it's a serious risk.  The Cardinals got unreal value, only trading a 3rd and 5th rounder to get a guy that many here wanted at #3.  Huge move by Steve Kiem and the Cardinals to go from 15 to 10 and get their guy.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

5 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Of the Top 4 QBs, I think the teams that did the best are the Jets and Cardinals.  Maccagnan found the sweet spot of the draft and he found it over a month ago with a very, very shrewd trade to #3.  The Bills took a risk.  It may work out for them but it's a serious risk.  The Cardinals got unreal value, only trading a 3rd and 5th rounder to get a guy that many here wanted at #3.  Huge move by Steve Kiem and the Cardinals to go from 15 to 10 and get their guy.

Agreed. Although you have to wonder what the Jets and Bills saw that caused them to avoid Rosen. Something there.