Maccagnans disregard for the oline borders on malfeasance.

[Beerfish]

The last four draft years:  Number of olineman picks and 'draft capital' which was just a very rough calculation of draft resources spent that I came up with.

Indianapolis Colts - 8 picks: 1,2,4,1,3,5,7,7

Detroit Lions - 7 picks: 1,5,1,3,5,1,7

Seattle Seahawks - 8 picks: 5,2,6,1,3,6,4,4

Baltimore Ravens - 8 picks: 3,6,6,4,5,1,4,5

New England Patriots - 7 picks: 1,3,6,3,6,4,4

Los Angels Rams - 7 picks: 3,4,6,2,3,4,6,

Cincinnati Bengals - 6 picks: 1,7,5,5,1,2

Arizona Cardinals - 7 picks: 3,7,4,5,4,5,1

Minnesota Vikings - 8 picks: 2,6,3,5,4,4,6,7

Cleveland Browns - 5 picks: 2,5,3,5,1

San Francisco 49ers - 6 picks: 1,1,5,5,6,7

Oakland Raiders - 7 picks: 1,3,4,7,7,4,7

Chicago Bears - 5 picks: 2,5,2,3,6

Denver Broncos - 5 picks: 6,1,5,2,4

Los Angles Chargers - 6 picks: 5,2,3,6,3,7

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 4 picks: 3,5,2,2

New Orleans Saints - 4 picks: 4,7,1,1

Washington Redskins - 5 picks: 3,6,1,4,7

Tennessee Titans - 6 picks: 6,7,1,6,3,6

Houston Texans - 4 picks: 3,4,7,2

New York Giants - 4 picks: 2,6,1,7

Jacksonville Jaguars - 3 picks: 4,2,3

Buffalo Bills: - 3 picks: 5,2,3

Miami Dolphins: - 3 picks: 5,1,4

Green Bay Packers: - 5 picks: 5,6,7,2,6

Dallas Cowboys: - 3 picks: 2,3,7

Philadelphia Eagles: - 4 picks: 6,7,3,5

Carolina Panthers: - 2 picks: 2,4

Kansas City Chiefs: - 2 picks: 4,2

Pittsburgh Steelers: - 2 picks: 3,4

Atlanta Falcons: - 3 picks: 4,6,7

New York Jets: - 2 picks: 5,5

 

All this knowing that our long time LT and Center were at the end of the road.

The excuse of 'oh there are no good olineman at such and such point in the draft thus why draft them?'  Does not pan out when you see other teams using their picks for developmental olineman.

Teams that have olines way better than the Jets are still drafting olineman throughout the draft.

Zero excuse for not favoring eh oline the last few years when we knew full well we were going to commit to a franchise QB at some point. 

And all that cap space?  You do not get good LTs in FA and the rare good guard is hunted by many teams.

 

[Dcat]

His drafting priorities beyond round 1 are absurd and inexplicable.  It's irresponsible.  It's grounds for dismissal AFAIC.  He is an incompetent drafter, he really is.  

[nycdan]

I agree we have been very neglectful.  But I do find it interesting that there are some very good  teams at the bottom of the list with us.  But they may have had better, younger players in place to excuse that.  We are a flat out mess right now.  That $20MM+ of cap we have right now would have been better used on Norwell this year.  And I haven't looked to see if any good FAs will be available next year, but it won't matter, because it just isn't important to this regime.  We'll spend it all on DL, DB and maybe LB. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

still can't believe he passed on Orlando Brown in the 3rd 

[redlichtie]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The last four draft years:  Number of olineman picks and 'draft capital' which was just a very rough calculation of draft resources spent that I came up with.

Indianapolis Colts - 8 picks: 1,2,4,1,3,5,7,7

Detroit Lions - 7 picks: 1,5,1,3,5,1,7

Seattle Seahawks - 8 picks: 5,2,6,1,3,6,4,4

Baltimore Ravens - 8 picks: 3,6,6,4,5,1,4,5

New England Patriots - 7 picks: 1,3,6,3,6,4,4

Los Angels Rams - 7 picks: 3,4,6,2,3,4,6,

Cincinnati Bengals - 6 picks: 1,7,5,5,1,2

Arizona Cardinals - 7 picks: 3,7,4,5,4,5,1

Minnesota Vikings - 8 picks: 2,6,3,5,4,4,6,7

Cleveland Browns - 5 picks: 2,5,3,5,1

San Francisco 49ers - 6 picks: 1,1,5,5,6,7

Oakland Raiders - 7 picks: 1,3,4,7,7,4,7

Chicago Bears - 5 picks: 2,5,2,3,6

Denver Broncos - 5 picks: 6,1,5,2,4

Los Angles Chargers - 6 picks: 5,2,3,6,3,7

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 4 picks: 3,5,2,2

New Orleans Saints - 4 picks: 4,7,1,1

Washington Redskins - 5 picks: 3,6,1,4,7

Tennessee Titans - 6 picks: 6,7,1,6,3,6

Houston Texans - 4 picks: 3,4,7,2

New York Giants - 4 picks: 2,6,1,7

Jacksonville Jaguars - 3 picks: 4,2,3

Buffalo Bills: - 3 picks: 5,2,3

Miami Dolphins: - 3 picks: 5,1,4

Green Bay Packers: - 5 picks: 5,6,7,2,6

Dallas Cowboys: - 3 picks: 2,3,7

Philadelphia Eagles: - 4 picks: 6,7,3,5

Carolina Panthers: - 2 picks: 2,4

Kansas City Chiefs: - 2 picks: 4,2

Pittsburgh Steelers: - 2 picks: 3,4

Atlanta Falcons: - 3 picks: 4,6,7

New York Jets: - 2 picks: 5,5

 

All this knowing that our long time LT and Center were at the end of the road.

The excuse of 'oh there are no good olineman at such and such point in the draft thus why draft them?'  Does not pan out when you see other teams using their picks for developmental olineman.

Teams that have olines way better than the Jets are still drafting olineman throughout the draft.

Zero excuse for not favoring eh oline the last few years when we knew full well we were going to commit to a franchise QB at some point. 

And all that cap space?  You do not get good LTs in FA and the rare good guard is hunted by many teams.

 

When you trade away 3 2nd round picks you don’t have the capital to draft at every position...our failure to address the edge rusher position for more than a decade is even worse.

that and the fact SOJF keep telling us you can get more than adequate OL in the mid/late rounds.....And safeties....and every other position that isn’t Quarterback

[kdels62]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I agree we have been very neglectful.  But I do find it interesting that there are some very good  teams at the bottom of the list with us.  But they may have had better, younger players in place to excuse that.  We are a flat out mess right now.  That $20MM+ of cap we have right now would have been better used on Norwell this year.  And I haven't looked to see if any good FAs will be available next year, but it won't matter, because it just isn't important to this regime.  We'll spend it all on DL, DB and maybe LB. 

-OR-

Those positions are locked in cheap and we can spend money on good players in expensive positions next year

[Jetsplayer21]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I agree we have been very neglectful.  But I do find it interesting that there are some very good  teams at the bottom of the list with us.  But they may have had better, younger players in place to excuse that.  We are a flat out mess right now.  That $20MM+ of cap we have right now would have been better used on Norwell this year.  And I haven't looked to see if any good FAs will be available next year, but it won't matter, because it just isn't important to this regime.  We'll spend it all on DL, DB and maybe LB. 

But the eagles had #1 ranked Oline, falcons second. So obviously they already had talent on their line from free agency or older past drafts. We didn’t have to worry about drafting  a center or a guard for 10 years after we got dbrick and mangold high in the draft. Which is what needs to happen again. Use the 1st round pick on a OT next yr, 3rd rounder on guard or center. Instead of just recycling DLineman every yr

[FidelioJet]

This idea that we have the worst O-line in football is just wrong.  Something happens on this board sometimes and everyone jump on the bandwagon.  

While it's certainly not the best - it's far from terrible.  We had injuries - we've gotten healthy and upgraded the weakest link.  Drafting o-line for the sake of it doesn't make sense.

I think, if anything, that list proves there are many ways to skin a cat...there are some bad teams that drafted a lot of o-linemen and some good ones...and some very good teams on the bottom of that list too.  

Journeyman, 38 year old Josh McCown was having a solid season and career year behind that o-line...

Please try and remember we are completely rebuilding.  This is year two - There are so many holes we need to fix...and we have a ton of cap money....

There are still pleny more cuts to come from teams...

[flgreen]

10 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

still can't believe he passed on Orlando Brown in the 3rd 

the same Orlando Brown who did 14 lifts on the bench and ran a 5.72 40 at the combine?

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

While it's certainly not the best - it's far from terrible. 

FO had us at 27th in pass pro and 29th in run blocking.

[Patriot Killa]

Not going to defend it because I wanted some O-line too, fella’s..but I understand what his thought process was as a GM. He loves to get the value and he felt like the players picked at that point were value grabs.

We’ll see how it turns out. Going to have a middle of the pack O-line this year and that should be enough for this year...next offseason I say go balls to the wall..if Darnold is playing well and the money comes in like it’s going to..we’ll be smooth sailing.

[Beerfish]

16 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

-OR-

Those positions are locked in cheap and we can spend money on good players in expensive positions next year

Someone, maybe you in the draft said, we can go after pass rusher and oline in next years draft.  The same thing has been said the last 4 years

[Jetsplayer21]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Not going to defend it because I wanted some O-line too, fella’s..but I understand what his thought process was as a GM. He loves to get the value and he felt like the players picked at that point were value grabs.

We’ll see how it turns out. Going to have a middle of the pack O-line this year and that should be enough for this year...next offseason I say go balls to the wall..if Darnold is playing well and the money comes in like it’s going to..we’ll be smooth sailing.

I don’t think people are arguing just about this draft. It’s the year in year out gross neglect of the OL. Next yr is it. If we don’t dratically improve in through draft and free agency Mac and Bowles should be fired for a HC/gm who actually wants to support his qb. Not just go back on focusing on the D now that they have their qb.

[thebuzzardman]

Why did the Colts line sort of suck if they drafted so many O Linemen?

Why was it good in Dallas if they drafted an average to below average number? 

Still, only 2 and in the 5th round is pretty neglectful. 

I figure Mags played DE in HS and was always being pancaked by fat kids on the o-line. 

 

 

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This idea that we have the worst O-line in football is just wrong.  Something happens on this board sometimes and everyone jump on the bandwagon.  

While it's certainly not the best - it's far from terrible.  We had injuries - we've gotten healthy and upgraded the weakest link.  Drafting o-line for the sake of it doesn't make sense.

I think, if anything, that list proves there are many ways to skin a cat...there are some bad teams that drafted a lot of o-linemen and some good ones...and some very good teams on the bottom of that list too.  

Journeyman, 38 year old Josh McCown was having a solid season and career year behind that o-line...

Please try and remember we are completely rebuilding.  This is year two - There are so many holes we need to fix...and we have a ton of cap money....

There are still pleny more cuts to come from teams...

Why did josh mccown not play  the whole year?

I for one am not in favor of rebuilding a position by ignoring for 4 years when you KNEW your great lt and c were leaving and then deciding to build the oline AFTER you get your franchise guy.

Did i expect this team to use all sorts of high picks on oline?  No but we drafted guys like Stewart and hansen mid rounds that are now in a group of tons of wrs and we used two 6th rounder on cbs last year.

Mac has no just delayed an oline build he has ignored it.  This looks a lot like the Houston David Carr scenario of which mac was a part of.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I don’t think people are arguing just about this draft. It’s the year in year out gross neglect of the OL. Next yr is it. If we don’t dratically improve in through draft and free agency Mac and Bowles should be fired for a HC/gm who actually wants to support his qb. Not just go back on focusing on the D now that they have their qb.

He signed Carpenter in his first year. Resigned Winter, drafted Shell, Signed Beachum, signed Swanson, signed Long..

failing to understand the true neglect.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He signed Carpenter in his first year. Resigned Winter, drafted Shell, Signed Beachum, signed Swanson, signed Long..

failing to understand the true neglect.

Carpentyer was a goo signing but by all reports he was terrible last year.  Winters was not drafted by him and he was poor last year after getting a big deal.  Shell, one of two olineman he has ever drafted.  Beachum like most LTS in free agency he was there after being injured and having a bad year with his previous team.

Swanson and long no world beaters were only signed after he clued in that wesly johnson was the worst center in the league.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He signed Carpenter in his first year. Resigned Winter, drafted Shell, Signed Beachum, signed Swanson, signed Long..

failing to understand the true neglect.

? are you being serious ? 

That list is why the Oline is ranked near dead last in the nfl lol. That Oline unit last yr had maybe the fewest injures in nfl also. Which is the scary thing. 

[jetstream23]

30 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

still can't believe he passed on Orlando Brown in the 3rd 

For a 25 year old Canadian DT.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Carpentyer was a goo signing but by all reports he was terrible last year.  Winters was not drafted by him and he was poor last year after getting a big deal.  Shell, one of two olineman he has ever drafted.  Beachum like most LTS in free agency he was there after being injured and having a bad year with his previous team.

Swanson and long no world beaters were only signed after he clued in that wesly johnson was the worst center in the league.

Ok but this was about neglecting O-line....he hasn’t neglected it to the extent people are giving off is my inital point. I do think he should of drafted more. No question..but let’s not act like he just hasn’t done anything period.

(I know Winters wasn’t drafted by him but he was resigned by him. We wanted Beachum before he went to the Jags.)

[NYJCAP2]

Center was a disaster which is why it was probably addressed right away in FA, also most important as far as calls being made and communication, you can’t mess around here.

Carpenter needs to be replaced before anyone else based on his salary and play. This doesn’t necessarily make his replacement a first round pick however.

The next tackle replacement is the most important. You will ideally want a decade guy on Darnold’s blind side usually seen with an early pick. This would change the entire complexion of the line and Beachum would be canned or moved to the right side to fight with Shell.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

16 minutes ago, flgreen said:

the same Orlando Brown who did 14 lifts on the bench and ran a 5.72 40 at the combine?

Yes, planet theory in the third round, there are only so many guys on the planet with his potential talent, something the Jets OL is in need of...

Easy 1st round pick if he prepared for the combine, fat and lazy can be fixed with proper motivation until you give him big Mo money   

[jetstream23]

10 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

Why did the Colts line sort of suck if they drafted so many O Linemen?

Why was it good in Dallas if they drafted an average to below average number? 

 

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

? are you being serious ? 

That list is why the Oline is ranked near dead last in the nfl lol. That Oline unit last yr had maybe the fewest injures in nfl also. Which is the scary thing. 

I’m being dead serious. Half of the signings I just mentioned were made this offseason. That list is irrelevant until next year.

[RVAJet815]

Drafts a top 5 (no less than top 10) draft by most draft experts...and still the whining from the balcony. I get it, the line isn't great. Rome wasn't built in a day, guys. I hate to go back to the same points over and over again, but there will be plenty of cash next year to go back and fill up the line. See how it performs this year, and then see what is done next year. 

[kdels62]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Someone, maybe you in the draft said, we can go after pass rusher and oline in next years draft.  The same thing has been said the last 4 years

I didn’t. I’m in the throes of a new relationship so I missed most of the draft and didn’t get to partake in the draft threads. I do believe that we need more talent on the o-line but we have a new system and a new o-line coach and I can’t name many o-line prospects after round 2. So we have a buttload of money next year to spend on o-line and I hope our current o-line is good enough to keep our qb clean.

[flgreen]

1 minute ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Yes, planet theory in the third round, there are only so many guys on the planet with his potential talent, something the Jets OL is in need of...

Easy 1st round pick if he prepared for the combine, fat and lazy can be fixed with proper motivation until you give him big Mo money   

Fat can be fixed, lazy seldom can.  This is the kids biggest job interview, and he doesn't take the time to get in decent shape?   

My prediction is Brown will be out of the league before his rookie contract is up.  If the Jets had taken him all the folks that are bitching now about the Jets not taking him would be howling about what a jerk Macc is for wasting a 3rd round draft pick on a lazy bum.

[HessStation]

15 hours ago, Dcat said:

His drafting priorities beyond round 1 are absurd and inexplicable.  It's irresponsible.  It's grounds for dismissal AFAIC.  He is an incompetent drafter, he really is.  

Although I think you have to wait it out a tiny bit more, I'm completely with you. If they didn't move around they could of had Crosby in the fourth round and Senat in the 6th. Both good prospects. And why not grab Toth in the 7th instead of a guy who's gonna get 2 dirt reps a game if he's lucky.

[Jetsplayer21]

16 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

Why did the Colts line sort of suck if they drafted so many O Linemen?

Why was it good in Dallas if they drafted an average to below average number? 

Still, only 2 and in the 5th round is pretty neglectful. 

I figure Mags played DE in HS and was always being pancaked by fat kids on the o-line. 

 

 

Yes. Ranked 4th

[HessStation]

And I get nobody knows what Shepard is gonna be nevermind the rest of the prospects but you took him w Rankin, Cole and Brown still on the board..

[JetFaninMI]

One word: Elfiein. Traded out with his butt buddies the Vikings and handed them a quality Center. Quick what was the worst position on the o-line last year? CENTER. This just shows Macc's piss poor talent evaluation. Who did he take? STEWART. Another indictment of his ability to evaluate talent. He also passed on some quality edge guys yesterday. This is becoming a trend here guys. He made a great move in trading up to 3 and having Darnold fall into his lap was lucky to say the least but luck will only take you so far. Macc's drafts after the 1st round have left a lot to be desired to say the least(with the exception of a certain safety) and while I'm ecstatic Darnold is a Jet I'm a little pissed at the rest of the way the draft went. Is it better to take a highly touted guy and have him bust? Or take a guy who no one ever heard of not make an impact and say it was "taking a shot"? Based on Macc's track record the "taking a shot" approach isn't working.

[HessStation]

1 minute ago, JetFaninMI said:

One word: Elfiein. Traded out with his butt buddies the Vikings and handed them a quality Center. Quick what was the worst position on the o-line last year? CENTER. This just shows Macc's piss poor talent evaluation. Who did he take? STEWART. Another indictment of his ability to evaluate talent. He also passed on some quality edge guys yesterday. This is becoming a trend here guys. He made a great move in trading up to 3 and having Darnold fall into his lap was lucky to say the least but luck will only take you so far. Macc's drafts after the 1st round have left a lot to be desired to say the least(with the exception of a certain safety) and while I'm ecstatic Darnold is a Jet I'm a little pissed at the rest of the way the draft went. Is it better to take a highly touted guy and have him bust? Or take a guy who no one ever heard of not make an impact and say it was "taking a shot"? Based on Macc's track record the "taking a shot" approach isn't working.

Yep. Elflein was the guy I wanted last year...I need to be running this franchise yo

[Jetsplayer21]

12 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m being dead serious. Half of the signings I just mentioned were made this offseason. That list is irrelevant until next year.

You mean re-signed lol. We only brought in two probably 1 yr patch jobs at center. We did have the worst center in the league last yr so they have to be an improvement. I’m ok with it for this yr. darnold is likely not playing anyway. Or that much. Next you needs a MASSIVE OL makeover though to make up for years of patchwork jobs. I’m not knocking the lineman, they are doing the best they can. They just need 2-3 very good guys on line. Then we can patch the rest in with some of our current patchwork guys ha

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

You mean re-signed lol. We only brought in two probably 1 yr patch jobs at center. We did have the worst center in the league last yr so they have to be an improvement. I’m ok with it for this yr. darnold is likely not playing anyway. Or that much. Next you needs a MASSIVE OL makeover though to make up for years of patchwork jobs. I’m not knocking the lineman, they are doing the best they can. They just need 2-3 very guys on line. Then we can patch the rest in with some of our current patchwork guys ha

I think the main reason this O-line with do for next year is because of how the zone blocking scheme doesn’t need superstars to function well. It can take no names and have them play admirably being that they have to pull in different directions and fill assignments. That’s athleticism and technique. I’m hopeful for a decent unit next year..that is the main reason I’m not losing my mind over it.

Agree that next offseason it definitely needs to be resolved. I think after we see what happens this year and we have a chance to evaluate where we are and reacess the needs...we will be okay.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

15 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Fat can be fixed, lazy seldom can.  This is the kids biggest job interview, and he doesn't take the time to get in decent shape?   

My prediction is Brown will be out of the league before his rookie contract is up.  If the Jets had taken him all the folks that are bitching now about the Jets not taking him would be howling about what a jerk Macc is for wasting a 3rd round draft pick on a lazy bum.

absolute reason for concern but the DL from Canada was working construction jobs 4 years ago and has not played top competition, if they were taking a player with concerns I would prefer it was a position of need

 and if they wanted DL there were better options like Sam Hubbard from Ohio State

Sam Hubbard said he's "looking forward to hitting all the quarterbacks" but admitted having a little "extra motivation" to sack Cleveland Browns QB Baker Mayfield, the 2018 NFL Draft's No. 1 overall pick from Oklahoma.