Boy, am I glad we didn't sign Cousins.

[Thai Jet]

5 minutes ago, chirorob said:

If he works out, then we have a QB, who will be getting big money.   Right now we can't even get someone to take out money.

I think Cousins is kind of under rated.   I was all in on signing him, but it didn't work out. 

I really liked Cousins coming out of Michigan State. He was a winner. As he became I was excited for the Jets to sign him but as the process moved forward I was less enthusiastic and now I'm down right glad he's not a Jet. I'm anxious to see how the Vikes do this year with their big bucks QB. I'm guessing they will have a worse record than last year. Just a hunch.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

@SAR I  Even after we draft a franchise QB there is still Kirk Cousins threads.....

NO

MORE

AH,

YOU

GET

IT.

SAR I

[Lizard King]

Happy as a clam about Darnold. Time to build an offensive line. Trader Mike did it, Mac can definitely do it.

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

How exactly is a healthy Teddy, playing the guy who gives the best chance to win and not playing a rookie who by all accounts needs time to develop not right away playing time considered Bowles "screwing it all up"??? If Darnold is the savior so many people here seem to believe and he will be with us for "15 years" which is also what I am constantly hearing whats the big deal if he isnt the best starter for us this year? it would actually be BETTER for his development if he sat this year and we bulked up the line. He throws more interceptions and has more fumbles when he is off schedule. The best thing he can do is sit while we improve the pieces around him............and he develops.

I swear you Bowles haters can pick your spots better than this, hate the guy for real stuff he does or doesnt do, this kind of b.s. is just a waste of space. 

I do not know who/what these all accounts are, by I do not agree at all.  This account disagrees.  See how he is in camp sure, but the idea that the guy will mature and improve on the bench is no longer really a thing. 

[long suffering jets fan]

3 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Let's face it-most good QBs in the league were taken with the team's #1 draft selection.  You run the risk of the kid busting, but putting your money on someone you believe in coming out of college is the way most teams succeed.

 True, but some of the best were not first rounders, including but not limited to Brady, Wilson, Brees, Cousins, Prescott, 

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Didn’t say we would have sucked. Merely said we are better off.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Wasn't responding to you per se, hence the reason why I didn't quote your comment........ 

Indeed many folks out here, who when we were discussing the Cousin acquisition, were arguing somehow that he sucked and any moves to acquire him and get folks to surround him was an ill fated move.  

[UnknownJetFan]

Just wanted to state that both Cousins and say Mayfield in the draft were non-options. Cousins wanted the Vikings and not us at any price and Mayfield was picked 1st overall, which we had no chance of getting. Same type of scenario. So, to say it would have been better to sign Cousins and keep the draft picks is irrelevant since we had no chance of signing him.

[jack48]

6 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Think about it: 

On the one hand,

we would have had a slightly better than average QB, approaching 30, with a ceiling of being somewhere in the top 10 to 15 QBs in the league.  Also, 30 mil per year towards the salary cap for at least three years. 

Versus,

20 year old stud, signed at modest expense for five years.  Potential top 5 guy, who has had his best performances in huge games.  Likely to be with us for 10 to 15 years. 

Sure, we would have gotten someone good at 6 and we could have used those second rounders but, long term, we are extremely fortunate that things worked out the way they did.

 

 

Inever liked Cousins. Dont ask me why.

[Thai Jet]

6 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

How exactly is a healthy Teddy, playing the guy who gives the best chance to win and not playing a rookie who by all accounts needs time to develop not right away playing time considered Bowles "screwing it all up"??? If Darnold is the savior so many people here seem to believe and he will be with us for "15 years" which is also what I am constantly hearing whats the big deal if he isnt the best starter for us this year? it would actually be BETTER for his development if he sat this year and we bulked up the line. He throws more interceptions and has more fumbles when he is off schedule. The best thing he can do is sit while we improve the pieces around him............and he develops.

I swear you Bowles haters can pick your spots better than this, hate the guy for real stuff he does or doesnt do, this kind of b.s. is just a waste of space. 

There's NO end to it. He (Bowles) could coach the Jets to the Super Bowl and they'd still complain.

[Paradis]

7 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Chill, Paradis.  What's with the f bomb and the "Pal"?  I thought this place was about expressing opinions and I'm entitled to mine like anyone else, and somehow I did it without f-bombs or calling anyone "Pal."  

And where's your college tape?  I'll be happy to take a look at it if you like.

sorry, i shouldn't have used such aggressive language. 

[Bruce Harper]

Just now, Paradis said:

sorry, i shouldn't have used such aggressive language. 

All good.

[Greensleeves]

11 hours ago, Warfish said:

Well.....it'll sure be great if Sam Darnold can produce similar production to that expected/typical of Kirk Cousins.

To be specific, Darnold would have to produce approx. 4,200 Yards passing, 27 TD's vs 12 INT's and at least 8 wins per season to be approx. equal in production to Cousins.

If we get that from Darnold, I think we'll all agree and be very happy.

With that said, Darnold has yet to take a single snap, we don't know when, or what, we will get from him.  We all hope for the best, of course.

Perhaps it's a bit early to be proclaiming Darnold a "Franchise QB" as many here have already started doing as if it were a settled documented fact, or to presume he will be a Top 10 QB before he's even attended his first rookie camp as an NFL player? 

I disagree again with you, sorry.  Cousins was a stat compiler and did not make the people around him better. A special QB can do that. If his stats are not the same but he actually makes his teammates better and they win, then it was a great move. What did Cousins win?

[jetspenguin]

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I do not know who/what these all accounts are, by I do not agree at all.  This account disagrees.  See how he is in camp sure, but the idea that the guy will mature and improve on the bench is no longer really a thing. 

EVERY and I mean EVERY review I have seen on this kid notes his potential and his flaws and how he needs to develop. I'm sure you can EASILY find more than a few to support this statement. I didnt say he needed to mature, I said he is better off sitting for more reasons than just refining his skills. I also mentioned the benefit of actually improving the other players on offense which also is clearly in need of significant upgrades. 

[BurnleyJet]

I'm so glad we picked Sam D. I'm convinced we are going to very happy when he starts to play.

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

I disagree again with you, sorry.

Never apologize.  That's what we're all here for, exchange of ideas.

Quote

 Cousins was a stat compiler and did not make the people around him better. A special QB can do that. If his stats are not the same but he actually makes his teammates better and they win, then it was a great move. What did Cousins win?

Ok.  Wins are what matters, although it's concerning to me that you'd already be de facto implying Darnold won't/can't match Cousins statistical performance.

I'm not going to defend Cousins anymore, Jets fans have convinced themselves he sucks, so ok, he sucks.  He's not a Jet, so it doesn't make a difference now. 

We have Darnold.  We'll see what Darnold, a generational Luck-like prospect as I've recently learned, will produce.

[Pcola]

22 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I like Sam Darnold a lot. I think he has a chance to be the answer the franchise has been looking for. But if the choice is Sam Darnold vs. Kirk Cousins, Quenton Nelson, and two second round picks (edge rusher? running back?) then the choice is pretty clear. Especially when you consider they could have taken someone like Lauletta in the later rounds too. 

Sam Darnold > Kirk Cousins, the best guard in the NFL, and 3 players like Hackenberg, Devin Smith, and Jace Amaro.

Every day of the week.  Darnold is 20 years younger than Brady.  16 years younger than Eli and Big Ben.

He is also going for like 1/6 of Cousins rate.  

Plus, we have over $100M in cap space next season.  With a blue chip star at QB, it will be a lot easier to attract talent next March.

[Pcola]

50 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Never apologize.  That's what we're all here for, exchange of ideas.

Ok.  Wins are what matters, although it's concerning to me that you'd already be de facto implying Darnold won't/can't match Cousins statistical performance.

I'm not going to defend Cousins anymore, Jets fans have convinced themselves he sucks, so ok, he sucks.  He's not a Jet, so it doesn't make a difference now. 

We have Darnold.  We'll see what Darnold, a generational Luck-like prospect as I've recently learned, will produce.

I think one of my biggest issues with Cousins was he was only committed for 3 years.  Never made any sense for the Jets to take a short-term short cut just to be competitive.

While Darnold is an unknown and has to take his lumps.  By the time Cousins would have been taking his second FA tour, Darnold will be going into his 4th season and the Jets would be poised to take over the AFC East for good.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I think one of my biggest issues with Cousins was he was only committed for 3 years.  Never made any sense for the Jets to take a short-term short cut just to be competitive.

While Darnold is an unknown and has to take his lumps.  By the time Cousins would have been taking his second FA tour, Darnold will be going into his 4th season and the Jets would be poised to take over the AFC East for good.

1

Yes. I have no problem with NFL players maximizing their income as much as possible, but this guy was telling you straight up that he was a mercenary and wanted the opportunity to be the highest paid player in the league again three years from now. Not only that, but the Jets offered him more money than the Vikes and he still said no, and @Warfish thinks the Jets should've kept upping the ante until he signed. Terrible policy for a guy who's good, maybe even very good, but not great, and hasn't won anything. 

Jets just drafted a QB who should be as good as Cousins pretty quickly, while earning the same amount of money over four years that Cousins will make this year. They lost out on maybe a guard and a RB in the draft (two second rounders), but those positions can easily be replaced in free agency with all the cap room they saved by not signing Cousins. And if Darnold is looking like a franchise QB by the end of the season, the Jets will have a lot less trouble attracting FAs next year. 

In my ever humble opinion, the Jets are far more likely to win a Super Bowl with Sam Darnold under center than Kirk Cousins, and that should be the bottom line. 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

 

And where would we even be without Big Mac? Rollin’ down the river, that’s where we’d be. But instead we’re beyond Thunderdome.

Just saw that again a few months ago. Still holds up well.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

I think one of my biggest issues with Cousins was he was only committed for 3 years.  Never made any sense for the Jets to take a short-term short cut just to be competitive.

While Darnold is an unknown and has to take his lumps.  By the time Cousins would have been taking his second FA tour, Darnold will be going into his 4th season and the Jets would be poised to take over the AFC East for good.

Indeed, the deal Cousins signed was for three years.  We have no idea if he would have been willing to sign for longer if the money had been right, or what "right money" would have been.  But yes, the Vikings will get three productive years from Cousins before the 'tag or re-up" becomes an issue.

We have Darnold for four + one years.  The first of which will surely be spent mostly on the bench/learning while McCown starts.  It's not unreasonable to presume it may take Darnold one->two years to reach his full productive potential.  So we'll get four years of him playing, three of which will be peak productive, with Darnold before he hits free agency and the same 'tag or re-up' question.

The primary difference is, of course, cost over these years.  Darnold is cheap.  Cousins is incredibly expensive.

[Warfish]

54 minutes ago, slats said:

Not only that, but the Jets offered him more money than the Vikes and he still said no

Suuuuure we did.  Analysis is easy if you believe every pro-Macc rumor floated into the mediasphere.

54 minutes ago, slats said:

.....and @Warfish thinks the Jets should've kept upping the ante until he signed. Terrible policy for a guy who's good, maybe even very good, but not great, and hasn't won anything.

Incorrect.  My position was that we should have offered materially more than the Viking, which (media rumors aside) I do not believe we did.

Cousins was unquestionably the best option for winning games and making the playoffs now and for  the next three years.  Darnold, if he lives up to every expectation, may only match likely Cousins performance in their respective third years.

With that said, cost (Darnold vs. Cousins) is a legitimate issue.  Of course, at the time I lobbied to sign Cousins, getting Darnold was considered almost impossible.  So lets not let hindsight change the argument in the moment.  Had the Browns taken Darnold and the Bills traded to #2 and taken Mayfield, and we're sitting here trying to convince ourselves to love Josh Douchebag Rosen, things might be different.

54 minutes ago, slats said:

Jets just drafted a QB who should be as good as Cousins pretty quickly, while earning the same amount of money over four years that Cousins will make this year.

Which will be awesome.....if Darnold is in fact as "good" i.e. as productive creating Offensive yards/TD's/wins, as Cousins is now.

54 minutes ago, slats said:

They lost out on maybe a guard and a RB in the draft (two second rounders), but those positions can easily be replaced in free agency with all the cap room they saved by not signing Cousins.

So our O-line will be great this year, awesome.  I'll be sure not to worry about out O-line now that you've so clearly stated how easy it is to sign O-linemen.

54 minutes ago, slats said:

And if Darnold is looking like a franchise QB by the end of the season, the Jets will have a lot less trouble attracting FAs next year.

Sounds nice, we'll see.

54 minutes ago, slats said:

In my ever humble opinion, the Jets are far more likely to win a Super Bowl with Sam Darnold under center than Kirk Cousins, and that should be the bottom line. 

Well, the great thing about life is facts never lie. 

We'll get to see for ourselves how Darnold does these next few years, and how Cousins does the next few years, inc old hard production, and we can judge accordingly.

In before the excuse-train leaves the station, of course.

[kelly]

" Boy, am I glad we didn't sign Cousins. "..

 

...me too  

 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Incorrect.  My position was that we should have offered materially more than the Viking, which (media rumors aside) I do not believe we did.

All reports have been that the Jets offered more than the Vikes, but that Cousins chose the Vikes anyway. You don't want to believe that, I guess that's your business. However, it makes sense from Cousins' POV, because he was very clear that he only wanted to sign for three years so he could cash in again, and the Vikes were much more built to win now than the Jets increasing his chances for a bigger second payday. 

Also makes sense for Jet fans who wanted no part of Cousins, who didn't see the Jets as legitimate contenders in the next couple years, and once again looking to fill their QB void a couple years later. 

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So our O-line will be great this year, awesome.  I'll be sure not to worry about out O-line now that you've so clearly stated how easy it is to sign O-linemen.

Yeah, that's what I said. 

Jets would've had to pay Cousins $30M+/year, high-end interior OL generally run in the $10M/year range. IF Darnold looks like a franchise QB by the end of the season then, yes, the Jets should little trouble attracting the top guys. 

I haven't been happy in general with the way Mac has dealt with the OL line, including this year when I think between the last few picks there should've been some developmental OL there instead, but that's fodder for another thread. I'm cautiously optimistic that their zone blocking scheme can cover some warts this year, and, yeah, pretty confident that they will be able to replenish the line next year. It's going to take a commitment from them, though. 

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, the great thing about life is facts never lie. 

We'll get to see for ourselves how Darnold does these next few years, and how Cousins does the next few years, inc old hard production, and we can judge accordingly.

In before the excuse-train leaves the station, of course.

Cousins is on the better team, and Darnold is a 20-year-old rookie. So I have a pretty good idea of how it's going to go these next couple years. And yes, we'll see. 

I still prefer the Jets' current situation, by far, to this alternative universe where the Jets could ever offer Cousins enough money to be here. Sure, it's hope, but what else have I got? Darnold lives up to the hype and looks like a legitimate franchise QB three years from now, while at the same time Cousins is in his contract year with his agent hot in pursuit of his next big payday. Which QB would you rather have at that point in time? Even if Darnold simply looks like a top half QB at that time -which is all Cousins is- the Jets would be in significantly better shape. 

[SMC]

According to Costello and Cimini, Macc fell in love with Darnold in 2016, more than a year before he was draft eligible.  Macc then straight-up stalked Darnold in the Fall 2017 when it was apparent Macc thought the Jets had a good chance at the No. 1 pick.

IMO, once it became clear that the Jets were going to win too many games because of McCown, the strategy changed and they focused on signing Cousins.  When that fell through, they didn't like the chance of not getting a top 3 QB at 6, so they moved up to 3.  Everything is related and ties back to Darnold.

[Warfish]

44 minutes ago, slats said:

All reports have been that the Jets offered more than the Vikes, but that Cousins chose the Vikes anyway. You don't want to believe that, I guess that's your business.

It's funny how often we all agree NY Sports Media is full of sh*t.....right up till the moment they say something we WANT to be true or supports some argument or another. 

Then Mehta is like the Word of God, lol.

44 minutes ago, slats said:

Jets would've had to pay Cousins $30M+/year, high-end interior OL generally run in the $10M/year range.

That sounds about right.

So...um....where is our high-end interior O-Lineman we signed?

44 minutes ago, slats said:

IF Darnold looks like a franchise QB by the end of the season then, yes, the Jets should little trouble attracting the top guys. 

$$$ talk, PR walks.

44 minutes ago, slats said:

I haven't been happy in general with the way Mac has dealt with the OL line, including this year when I think between the last few picks there should've been some developmental OL there instead, but that's fodder for another thread.

Well, at least it's a point we agree on for a change.

44 minutes ago, slats said:

Cousins is on the better team, and Darnold is a 20-year-old rookie. So I have a pretty good idea of how it's going to go these next couple years. 

Oh?  Please, elaborate? 

Are you intimating that Cousins will be 1 0-game winning, 4,500+ Yard throwing top-10 QB, and Darnold.....might not be?

I think this needs clarified!

44 minutes ago, slats said:

I still prefer the Jets' current situation, by far, to this alternative universe where the Jets could ever offer Cousins enough money to be here. Sure, it's hope, but what else have I got?

Well, we could have had a guy who was already a top-10 QB.  And been a competitor in 2018.

But this is usual Jets Fan thinking, the chance of something seemingly is always better than the actual something.....

44 minutes ago, slats said:

Darnold lives up to the hype and looks like a legitimate franchise QB three years from now, while at the same time Cousins is in his contract year with his agent hot in pursuit of his next big payday.

Conversely, Cousins wins a Super Bowl between now and that time.  Yeah, I'd be ok with A Super Bowl, how about you?

44 minutes ago, slats said:

Which QB would you rather have at that point in time? Even if Darnold simply looks like a top half QB at that time -which is all Cousins is- the Jets would be in significantly better shape. 

It is what it is, we have Darnold.  I wish for him the best because he is who we have.  I think we're worse off today than the Vikings w/ Cosuins.  I think we'll likely be worse off than the Vikings w/ Cousins for at least the next two out of three years, and the third year....who knows, alot depends on how Darnold develops, and none of us know that yet.

But we're back to the same old "Suck for Sam" argument.  2017 couldn't be competitive, because Suck for Sam.  2018 can't be competitive, because Suck with Learning Sam.  2019 may not be competitive because reasons, Sam not Ready!  Etc. etc. etc.

Most of my arguments come back to "when will we be competing to win a Super Bowl?".  Because it seems like we're ages away even now from that goal, and any chance in the next five years now rests of a shoddy O-line, a bunch of #2 and #3 WR's, a few late-round RB's and Sam Darnold.  Who MAY in fact become awesome, but today....who knows.

[Jetsfan80]

Darnold has 10 years on Cousins, and higher upside.  The Vikings are in a better situation right now, for sure, because they've put together a stellar roster.  But that doesn't mean that Cousins would have been a great fit here.  He's not a franchise savior.  He's a very good QB, but he merely would have made us playoff contenders until his contract expired, not a Super Bowl contender. 

Getting Cousins was the right move for the Vikings.  Getting Darnold was by FAR the better result for us.  No more hired hands at QB's.  We needed a franchise QB that WE drafted, who we have under contract for cheap for the next 5 years. 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold has 10 years on Cousins, and higher upside.

Upside doesn't win games.  Passing yards and passing TD's while minimizing INT's and fumbles does.

I think we ALL hope Darnold lives up to his Luck-like upside, right?  

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's a very good QB, but he merely would have made us playoff contenders until his contract expired, not a Super Bowl contender. 

Wow, it would sure suck to be a playoff contender....

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Getting Cousins was the right move for the Vikings.  Getting Darnold was by FAR the better result for us.

TDB

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No more hired hands at QB's.

Your starting QB in 2018 in Josh McCown.  Just a reminder....

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We needed a franchise QB that WE drafted, who we have under contract for cheap for the next 5 years. 

We need to win games and compete for the Super Bowl.

Who helps us do that, or how we acquire them, means nothing to me.

I hope Darnold IS that guy.  

[#27TheDominator]

12 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

EVERY and I mean EVERY review I have seen on this kid notes his potential and his flaws and how he needs to develop. I'm sure you can EASILY find more than a few to support this statement. I didnt say he needed to mature, I said he is better off sitting for more reasons than just refining his skills. I also mentioned the benefit of actually improving the other players on offense which also is clearly in need of significant upgrades. 

Sorry, but having flaws does not equate with should sit. 

I am also not from the school of keeping our delicate flower in the case and not breaking the glass until the rest of the team melds into the perfect situation.  He will show us in camp if he should start. No reason to decide now.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Upside doesn't win games.  Passing yards and passing TD's while minimizing INT's and fumbles does.

I think we ALL hope Darnold lives up to his Luck-like upside, right?  

Wow, it would sure suck to be a playoff contender....

TDB

Your starting QB in 2018 in Josh McCown.  Just a reminder....

We need to win games and compete for the Super Bowl.

Who helps us do that, or how we acquire them, means nothing to me.

I hope Darnold IS that guy.  

 

Jeezus dude.  We all know Darnold is an unknown.  He's a 20-year old rookie.  But you have to take chances sometimes. 

As for playoff contention, yes, it would suck to make the playoffs but not be a team capable of winning a Super Bowl, then be forced to pay Cousins all over again at age 33. 

You're all about results now, but Darnold gives us the far better chance to win a Super Bowl in the future, not Cousins.  That's just simple math.  20-year old franchise QB vs 30-year old above average QB.  It's no contest for us, a franchise with an uncertain short-term future at Head Coach, GM, and premium positions all over the field.  Even if Darnold ends up a league average QB (which is not far off from what Cousins is anyways) for the next 10 years and no better, that was the smarter decision than getting Cousins for 3 years.

And if he completely busts?  Sucks, but again, you can't let that be a deterrant for drafting QB's at the top of the draft when you have the chance to do so.  You take your chances and hope for the best.  The best franchises in the game do that, and many times, it pans out.   SEE:  Rodgers, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Rivers, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, etc.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jeezus dude.  We all know Darnold is an unknown.  He's a 20-year old rookie.  But you have to take chances sometimes. 

It was "taking a chance' either way, draft (and pray we get lucky and get "the guy") or sign Cousins, who already is "the guy".

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As for playoff contention, yes, it would suck to make the playoffs but not be a team capable of winning a Super Bowl, then be forced to pay Cousins all over again at age 33.

Yeah, lets make the playoffs first and then worry about taking the next step.  So far, all I see is a perennial 5 win team here who talks a good game and wins...5 games.

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You're all about results now, but Darnold gives us the far better chance to win a Super Bowl in the future, not Cousins.

TDB.  Any claim otherwise is pure distilled homerism.  For all we know, Darnold could be the next Jamarcus Russel (exceedingly doubtful, but still...)

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's just simple math.  20-year old franchise QB vs 30-year old above average QB.  It's no contest for us, a franchise with an uncertain short-term future at Head Coach, GM, and premium positions all over the field.

3 year deal for Cousins, 5 year deal for Darnold, the first year of which is "learning" time for the most part.  Anythign beyond that is speculation or requires the franchise tag.  Yes, Darnold is younger.  we do not yet know if he is better.  

We all have to hope he is.

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even if Darnold ends up a league average QB (which is not far off from what Cousins is anyways) for the next 10 years and no better, that was the smarter decision than getting Cousins for 3 years.

Unless Darnold is "average" playing somewhere other than here after five years, right?  

And lol, Cousins is "average".  Jets Fans....

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And if he completely busts?  Sucks, but again, you can't let that be a deterrant for drafting QB's.  You take your chances and hope for the best.  The best franchises in the game do that, and many times, it pans out. 

Risk vs. Reward.  Cousins was a fiscal risk, Darnold is an on-field production risk.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Unless Darnold is "average" playing somewhere other than here after five years, right? 

Unlike Cousins, average play would net Darnold a new contract here.  No way we'd let a 25-year old Darnold go to a different team.  That's why you draft QB's in the first place:  To be YOUR guy, not someone else's. 

Cousins, as a hired hand, would have forced us into a very tough decision at the age of 33.  For Darnold, it wouldn't even be a question.  He'd have to suck really hard to not get a new contract from us. 

[slats]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

It's funny how often we all agree NY Sports Media is full of sh*t.....right up till the moment they say something we WANT to be true or supports some argument or another. 

Then Mehta is like the Word of God, lol.

Not just NY media, all media. Very widely reported that the Jets offered more than the Vikings, but that Cousins chose the Vikings because it was the better fit, better chance of winning, and better opportunity to cash in again in three years. Find me a report that says it turns out that the Vikes offered the most money, I'll wait here. 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

That sounds about right.

So...um....where is our high-end interior O-Lineman we signed?

 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

$$$ talk, PR walks.

What I said, and you either didn't read or chose to ignore, was referring to next year when the Jets (again, hopefully) either have a couple more wins and/or it looks like Darnold is the real deal. At that time, the Jets will be a more attractive place for FAs. 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Oh?  Please, elaborate? 

Are you intimating that Cousins will be 1 0-game winning, 4,500+ Yard throwing top-10 QB, and Darnold.....might not be?

I think this needs clarified!

Yeah, go figure! The 7th year veteran going to the team that made it all the way to the NFC Championship Game last year might have a bit of a head start on a 20-year-old rookie on a team that hasn't won more than five games in the last two years. Stop the presses! 

Put Darnold on the Vikes and Cousins on the Jets, and we might be thinking a little differently. 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Well, we could have had a guy who was already a top-10 QB.  And been a competitor in 2018.

But this is usual Jets Fan thinking, the chance of something seemingly is always better than the actual something.....

 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Conversely, Cousins wins a Super Bowl between now and that time.  Yeah, I'd be ok with A Super Bowl, how about you?

Cousins didn't want to play for the Jets because he did not imagine himself winning a Super Bowl here in just three years, and I didn't want him because I didn't see it either. 

And is it, "Jet fan thinking," really? Or simply human nature? Cousins is nothing great, he's no savior. He's a good QB who was demanding top pay. Darnold, OTOH, offers a chance at greatness at a much lower price. A very highly rated prospect that we were lucky to have drop to us thanks to some questionable drafting ahead of us. Maybe it's more typical "Jet fan thinking," to piss on what actually is going on and pine for something that was never going to happen. It's certainly typical Same ol' Jet fan thinking. 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

It is what it is, we have Darnold.  I wish for him the best because he is who we have.  I think we're worse off today than the Vikings w/ Cosuins.  I think we'll likely be worse off than the Vikings w/ Cousins for at least the next two out of three years, and the third year....who knows, alot depends on how Darnold develops, and none of us know that yet.

We're only worse off than the Vikings because of the rest of the Vikings organization, not the QBs. At QB, the Jets are much closer to being set for the next decade and a half. The Vikings will be deciding between paying Cousins $35M/year or looking in another direction while Darnold still has two years left on his rookie deal. 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Most of my arguments come back to "when will we be competing to win a Super Bowl?".  Because it seems like we're ages away even now from that goal, and any chance in the next five years now rests of a shoddy O-line, a bunch of #2 and #3 WR's, a few late-round RB's and Sam Darnold.  Who MAY in fact become awesome, but today....who knows.

Jets weren't competing for a Super Bowl before Cousins' contract expired, and that's why he was content to accept less from the Vikings to play there. 

Everything else is non-QB related fluff. Mac's ability to build an OL, find a WR, or add a pass rusher, etc., is separate from trading a couple picks for a rookie QB or paying a king's ransom for a guy you hope continues to be above average. 

I don't love everything this guy does, not by a long shot. This one he got right, and as per the norm when he does things right it was because of things entirely out of his control. He wanted Cousins, but Cousins only wanted the Jets involved to boost his offers. He traded up to #3 not knowing what would be there, and the two teams ahead of him let the near-consensus #1 QB in the draft fall to #3. It's better to be lucky than good. 

[rangerous]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:02 AM, Bruce Harper said:

Think about it: 

On the one hand,

we would have had a slightly better than average QB, approaching 30, with a ceiling of being somewhere in the top 10 to 15 QBs in the league.  Also, 30 mil per year towards the salary cap for at least three years. 

Versus,

20 year old stud, signed at modest expense for five years.  Potential top 5 guy, who has had his best performances in huge games.  Likely to be with us for 10 to 15 years. 

Sure, we would have gotten someone good at 6 and we could have used those second rounders but, long term, we are extremely fortunate that things worked out the way they did.

 

 

yep.  cousins would've stuck around for 3 seasons and then would have signed for more money or with some other team.  about the only downside is losing the 3 second round picks.  however, if it wasn't darnold then it would have looked much worse.