Darnold Starting and QB Development

[Augustiniak]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

 However, the offense is only introducing 1/maybe 2 new starters - Spencer and maybe Crowell and we're hoping Spencer is a significant upgrade, so you would think the chemistry/learning curve of settling into a new systems isnt that difficult.  In general, the Jets arent introducing too many new starters.  Spencer, Crowell, Johnson, Santos - that's it. 

pryor will start and herndon may start.  you may have two new starting rbs if powell remains the 3rd down back.  plus anderson could get suspended.  and this is before any injuries that may alter things.  

[Jetmech]

I would start McCown even if he is great in TC until McCown starts to falter. It could be by week 3 who knows. Need to see how the OL performs, although I'm not expecting significant improvement.

Would be fun to start him vs Mayfield. Even for one game could be hyperbole leading to an early season game...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

 I think I already feel for Sam Darnold. It’s so hard anyway to walk onto a team as a high-first-round rookie quarterback anyway, but I watched over the weekend as his every throw and move were micro-analyzed. It’s the kind of microscope that helped mess up Christian Hackenberg, but he was the 51st pick in the draft. Darnold’s the sure thing, the quarterback for the next 15 years. My advice to him: Read nothing, other than stuff provided by your coaches. Listen to no one, other than Todd Bowles, Jeremy Bates, Josh McCown and Teddy Bridgewater.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/07/peter-king-sports-illustrated-nbc-mmqb?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

 I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WE RUINED CHRISTIAN HACKENBERG!

[Lupz27]

28 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WE RUINED CHRISTIAN HACKENBERG!

This is just Peter King being all butt hurt that the Jets finally got a real franchise QB, and having to throw a cheap shot at NY sports any chance he can get well when he isn’t busy licking Brady’s nut sack.

[UntouchableCrew]

I don't think he's saying we "ruined" Hack. He's just saying that NY is a brutal media market for a young QB, and some guys can't handle it. This shouldn't be news to any of you.

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, C Mart said:

 I think I already feel for Sam Darnold. It’s so hard anyway to walk onto a team as a high-first-round rookie quarterback anyway, but I watched over the weekend as his every throw and move were micro-analyzed. It’s the kind of microscope that helped mess up Christian Hackenberg, but he was the 51st pick in the draft. Darnold’s the sure thing, the quarterback for the next 15 years. My advice to him: Read nothing, other than stuff provided by your coaches. Listen to no one, other than Todd Bowles, Jeremy Bates, Josh McCown and Teddy Bridgewater.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/07/peter-king-sports-illustrated-nbc-mmqb?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

 

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't think he's saying we "ruined" Hack. He's just saying that NY is a brutal media market for a young QB, and some guys can't handle it. This shouldn't be news to any of you.

Is "ruined" different than "helped mess up?"  Sounds like he is saying it was a contributing factor.  I tend to think that sucking is what caused Hackenberg to be messed up.

[UntouchableCrew]

28 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Is "ruined" different than "helped mess up?"  Sounds like he is saying it was a contributing factor.  I tend to think that sucking is what caused Hackenberg to be messed up.

He's not talking about the Jets ruining him. He's talking about the "microscope" of the New York media.

Peter King is obviously very well sourced -- if he's saying Hack struggled with the scrutiny I'd guess people in the Jets organization are the ones telling him so.

[JustInFudge]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

pryor will start and herndon may start.  you may have two new starting rbs if powell remains the 3rd down back.  plus anderson could get suspended.  and this is before any injuries that may alter things.  

Pyror starting I think is probably dependent on Anderson's status and Enunwa's health. If they're good to go, I dont see Pryor starting.  Kearse>Anderson>Enunwa>Pryor. 

I dont know how you could have 2 new starting RB's when you only play 1 Rb and I already mentioned Crowell.

TE is open, so that would be a new one too.

So 5 for sure, 6 maybe; Johnson, Crowell, Spencer, new TE, Santos...maybe Pryor. 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He's not talking about the Jets ruining him. He's talking about the "microscope" of the New York media.

Peter King is obviously very well sourced -- if he's saying Hack struggled with the scrutiny I'd guess people in the Jets organization are the ones telling him so.

Bullsh*t.  

He is guessing.  The "microscope" of the New York media didn't ruin him.  He was bad at Happy Valley.  They could have ignored him the past two years and he'd be just as bad.  It is easy to blame the media, but you have to be able to throw a football before you get ruined.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/5/2018 at 8:36 AM, Warfish said:

Start him.

NFL QB's are not Faberge Eggs. 

Learning is best done by doing. 

A QB who falls apart because he plays poorly as a rookie.....was never going to be great anyway.  

Every down played by McCown is a wasted and pointless down.

Unless Darnold is literally Hack-like, he should start, not be coddled and protected like a little kitten.

The same thing, tbqh, that probably should have happened last year with Hack, sink or swim.

And please, spare me the "but we have to play the best QB or the team will revolt" line.  No, they won't.  

I consider non-Hack-like to be "ready' -- "ready" doesn't mean "looks like a veteran in his prime" it just means the play isn't going by at 100mph and his brain is only going 3mph while he's thinking about his footwork.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/6/2018 at 10:11 AM, jgb said:

How about “when oline proves it’s capable of protecting him”

we don't have him locked up for that long

[#27TheDominator]

On 5/5/2018 at 8:36 AM, Warfish said:

NFL QB's are not Faberge Eggs. 

Not Faberge, but...

[ZachEY]

57 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bullsh*t.  

He is guessing.  The "microscope" of the New York media didn't ruin him.  He was bad at Happy Valley.  They could have ignored him the past two years and he'd be just as bad.  It is easy to blame the media, but you have to be able to throw a football before you get ruined.

Was the media even really that tough on Hackenberg?

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Was the media even really that tough on Hackenberg?

The vile bastards reported that a coach said "he couldn't hit the ocean." 

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He's not talking about the Jets ruining him. He's talking about the "microscope" of the New York media.

Peter King is obviously very well sourced -- if he's saying Hack struggled with the scrutiny I'd guess people in the Jets organization are the ones telling him so.

I’m glad you understood. I’m sorry I posted it now. Amazing how this turned into a peter king bashing. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, C Mart said:

I’m glad you understood. I’m sorry I posted it now. Amazing how this turned into a peter king bashing. 

What are we supposed to understand?  King feels bad for Darnold?  Because the media is so tough here?  

IMO the media has been pretty even on Hackenberg - treating him as a legit starting candidate for 2017 despite no reason to think he would be viable.  Meanwhile, you can find countless MMQB pieces ripping Hackenberg, including King "reporting" that he was thrown off the field for failing to break the huddle correctly.  That is fairly common early in camp with a new staff - but he was all hahaha. Now I am supposed to believe he feels this sympathy for Hackenberg and that this some how is contributing to Hackenberg's poor performance?

If Darnold shows potential, it won't matter how tough the media is on him, the fans will stand up for the guy and buy his jersey.  

[The Walrus]

On 5/6/2018 at 11:20 PM, BCJet said:

Peyton started day 1, threw a ton of picks and became a HOF.  

I think Aikman was the same. Wasn't until his 3rd year that he threw more TDs than picks.

On 5/6/2018 at 11:20 PM, BCJet said:

The two most important things are Bates simplifying the offense enough to not overwhelm him and the leaders on the team (Leo, Jamal, Winters, etc) need to take responsibility for the teams performance and try to shield him a bit from having this all on his shoulders.  

Seattle is a good example of a team that didn't rely on Wilson only to be the focus of all the pressure, they spread the expectation of performance all around the team.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bullsh*t.  

He is guessing.  The "microscope" of the New York media didn't ruin him.  He was bad at Happy Valley.  They could have ignored him the past two years and he'd be just as bad.  It is easy to blame the media, but you have to be able to throw a football before you get ruined.

I don't agree that he's guessing but I do agree that he sucked in college and would have sucked no matter what.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Redshirt year 1.

He's 20, our offensive roster stinks and we're not contenders by any stretch.   

[The Walrus]

As long as he's starting in time for the AFC championship game an January.

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Redshirt year 1.

He's 20, our offensive roster stinks and we're not contenders by any stretch.   

You listen to too much fake news.  Our offensive line isn’t bad as long as Beachum stays healthy and we have Robby and Jermaine Kearse coming off good seasons and Enunwa returning.  Great offensive roster? No but it doesn’t “stink”

 

The Colts made the playoffs in 2012 with Luck as a rookie after going 2-14 the year before

[Jetsplayer21]

Jet fans are starving for darnold to be ready. It is way too early to tell. You can’t even rule out of him not being ready to start the 2019 season. I know the fans will go nuts if he is not ready week 1 next yr ha

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Jet fans are starving for darnold to be ready. It is way too early to tell. You can’t even rule out of him not being ready to start the 2019 season. I know the fans will go nuts if he is not ready week 1 next yr ha

I think most jets fans know McCown is going to start week 1 and are fine with it.  I just think this whole media jet hating narrative going around now that we shouldn’t even play Darnold until 2049 because our roster is soooo bad is laughable 

[Jetsplayer21]

15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I think most jets fans know McCown is going to start week 1 and are fine with it.  I just think this whole media jet hating narrative going around now that we shouldn’t even play Darnold until 2049 because our roster is soooo bad is laughable 

Darnold can’t even have a beer yet legally. He had a nice Soph yr when he had good talent on O, strong line. Last yr he led the nation in turnovers because he didnt have a strong line. Yet fans think we can throw him into the nfl with a weak line and he will be ok lol. Maybe in a yr or 2 he can figure out how to carry the O with a weak Oline. Or we can “Finally “ invest in a average nfl line. Instead of pumping all the $$ and draft picks into Bowles precious D. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You listen to too much fake news.  Our offensive line isn’t bad as long as Beachum stays healthy and we have Robby and Jermaine Kearse coming off good seasons and Enunwa returning.  Great offensive roster? No but it doesn’t “stink”

 

The Colts made the playoffs in 2012 with Luck as a rookie after going 2-14 the year before

Meh, we're all question marks on offense. 

If Robby stays out of trouble, If Kearse duplicates last year, If Enunwa returns strong, If Beachum, Long, and Rawls stay healthy, If Shell continues to develop... then maybe it's worth giving Darnold the keys. 

The safer option is to redshirt year one.  

[jetrider]

 

Let Darnold decide when he's ready

[Jetster]

If he beats out McCown in the preseason he should start. We ain't going anywhere with Josh at the helm so let's get this party started & give these young players something to get excited about on Sundays. 

At his age McCown is NOT a starting QB in this league, now if you told me Teddy was healthy & looks great in preseason then play him but Darnold has too much talent to sit on the bench here. David Shaw said he reminds him of Luck, let's get this process going so we can surround him with elite skill players in 2019 when he's really ready to rock. Sam will be immersed in the playbook & filmroom unlike Sanchez who was dicking around with Shottenhiemers computer, doing GQ photo shoots, wiping boogies on Mark Brunnels jacket & eating hotdogs on the sideline. Huge maturity difference between these 2 USC QBs.

[hawk]

I think this is a bit premature.  Give him a chance to learn the playbook, runs some plays, get some chemistry, and see where he is at.  If he even or within say 90% with the top QB but progressing, week one.  If he is not, later.

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Jet fans are starving for darnold to be ready. It is way too early to tell. You can’t even rule out of him not being ready to start the 2019 season. I know the fans will go nuts if he is not ready week 1 next yr ha

If he isn't ready to start the 2019 season he was a bad pick. Is there any QB that redshirted a year and didn't start his 2nd season that doesn't suck?  Are we aiming for a Paxton Lynch career trajectory?  I won't go nuts, but I will be scouting the 2020 QB class.  Bright side: Cousins and a bunch of other guys will be FAs for 2021.

[Lupz27]

14 minutes ago, hawk said:

I think this is a bit premature.  Give him a chance to learn the playbook, runs some plays, get some chemistry, and see where he is at.  If he even or within say 90% with the top QB but progressing, week one.  If he is not, later.

I’d bet Darnold knows the playbook before TC starts, and by knows I mean able to execute, and line teammates up who are not fully up to speed with it that’s the type of hard worker he is.

[Lupz27]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If he isn't ready to start the 2019 season he was a bad pick. Is there any QB that redshirted a year and didn't start his 2nd season that doesn't suck?  Are we aiming for a Paxton Lynch career trajectory?  I won't go nuts, but I will be scouting the 2020 QB class.  Bright side: Cousins and a bunch of other guys will be FAs for 2021.

Darnold haters gonna hate even when they say they are happy with the pick thou he wasn’t who they wanted trying to hide their sour grapes.

[Jetsplayer21]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If he isn't ready to start the 2019 season he was a bad pick. Is there any QB that redshirted a year and didn't start his 2nd season that doesn't suck?  Are we aiming for a Paxton Lynch career trajectory?  I won't go nuts, but I will be scouting the 2020 QB class.  Bright side: Cousins and a bunch of other guys will be FAs for 2021.

Aaron Rodgers ? I”ll take that. I know it’s not the norm to sit like it use to be. Every qb is different. When is the last time a 21 yr old was a starter in nfl and did well ? We picked a young qb, mayfield and Rosen May be more ready to go. But it’s not a race Who is better in yr 1 or 2, it’s year 3-4 when they really hit their mark. We should focus more on making the offense nfl acceptable for darnold. 

[greenwave81]

I swear, Jets fans are so typical.

'Don't start him..he ain't ready'! ... 'You're gonna ruin him, just like Sanchez!' ...'You can't start him now, the OL sucks!'..'He's too young!'. 'We need to develop him!'   Heard it all, multiple times.

The answer is to start him when:

He knows the playbook, can protect himself and the football, and is mentally ready to accept the challenge.  

He may have some rough goings at first.  But if he can process the experience and learn from it and grow, play the kid.  He ain't gonna learn to be an NFL QB sitting on the sideline watching Josh McCown and getting all McCown's 'mentoring goodies'.

If you draft a QB at #3, he better be able to handle, and learn, from adversity at the least.  Rodgers sat behind Favre...Eli behind Warner.  Sitting Darnold behind McCown is asinine unless he cannot meet the 4 criteria above.

This season is about Darnold..or at least it should be.  It should not be about trying to eke out a #6 seed until we get eliminated in week 14 while playing McCown.  Darnold will either be the future, or he won't...he'll get probably 3 years to show himself either one way or the other, and as soon as he demonstrates the criteria above, he should start...even if he doesn't outplay the 39 yo 18 yr NFL veteran in TC.

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

I don't understand:

"well we drafted him high, so he's gotta play now!"

"since when did sitting help anybody?... Dorsia?...nobody goes there anymore"

"We've got to compete this year... because..."

Aaron Rodgers sat.  Carson Palmer sat.  Pat Maholmes sat last year. 

If we had the Texans roster and coaching staff, sure, maybe we give Darnold a shot to win the job.  

But we don't.  We've got Bowles and a bottom third roster. 

I love that we got Darnold.  I'm excited going forward. 

But we've still got McCown and this offensive unit is a long way from a good supporting cast.  The most logical thing to do is to give Sam the time to learn how to be a professional for a year, maybe throw him a game or two weeks 16 and 17, and then spend a lot of money and draft capital next year on offense... hopefully get a new head coach in too; one that we're confident can develop a quarterback.  

[Sully80]

 I don't think its as cut as dry as this. If Darnold is ready, I think you don't play him until you're sure the O-Line is holding up. The earliest, if ready, I'd like to see him is week 3 or 4. That way we're not setting him up to get Lucked.