John Elway

[HawkeyeJet]

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

[32EBoozer]

14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

Didn’t you post this last year as well? I think it still applied to Elway or perhaps McCloughlin with the ‘Skins?

[MDL_JET]

Here ya go...And I agree. Always argued this when the Cousins debate was happening. His success as an exec is mostly due to Peyton Manning. 

Beane also had a deal in advance with Broncos General Manager John Elway that would have seen the Bills send the 12th overall pick, the 22nd overall pick and a second-round pick to Denver in exchange for the fifth overall pick. But Elway said he would only do that if the player he wanted was off the board at No. 5. It turned out the player Elway wanted, Bradley Chubb, was available, and the Broncos stayed put and drafted him.

“John calls me and says, ‘All right, here’s what we’ll do,’” Beane said. “We finalized the deal, but it’s contingent on his guy not being there. . . . I was a little bummed when Elway told me, ‘Hey, this is our guy.’ I felt like what I had to offer John was better than anybody else could offer. I felt like I was bidding against myself, basically.”

In the end, Beane got a much better deal: To trade up from 12 to 7, Beane only had to give the Buccaneers two second-round picks, and not the 22nd pick in the first round. That allowed Beane to get Allen and then make another trade in the first round to get another player he wanted, linebacker Tremaine Edmunds. Beane thinks the trades he made ended up even better than the trades he tried to make.

[HawkeyeJet]

5 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Didn’t you post this last year as well? I think it still applied to Eleanor or perhaps McCloughlin with the ‘Skins?

Yes.  I I got thoroughly lambasted, if I recall correctly.  Which is ok. 

 His drafts have proven to be basically atrocities outside Von Miller.

[Larz]

Wow beane gave details of the call 

Not a great way to develop relationships 

[sourceworx]

21 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Yes.  I I got thoroughly lambasted, if I recall correctly.  Which is ok. 

 His drafts have proven to be basically atrocities outside Von Miller.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he was the GM when they drafted Miller.

[T0mShane]

Going back to 2013, those drafts are bad. Which is why he should trade us Shane Ray for Darron Lee. Save some face, bud.

[HawkeyeJet]

4 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he was the GM when they drafted Miller.

Miller was his first drafts. This recap is from the Denver Post leading into this years drsft.  Maybe he has had some later round succes(I don't think so though) but this is not good.

2017

1 (20): OT Garett Bolles, Utah — Started all 16 games last year, but led team in penalties (10 holding calls).

2 (51): DE DeMarcus Walker, Florida State — Rarely got off the bench; had one sack.

3 (82): WR Carlos Henderson, Louisiana Tech — Missed rookie season with torn thumb ligament.

2016

1 (26): QB Paxton Lynch, Memphis — Started only two games in each of the past two seasons.

2 (59): DT Adam Gotsis, Georgia Tech — Started 13 games last season, but is now subject of a rape investigation.

3 (99): S Justin Simmons, Boston College – Became full-time starter in second season with 49 tackles.

2015

1 (23): LB Shane Ray, Missouri — Missed eight games last season with a wrist injury.

2 (59): OT Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State — Traded to Atlanta in September after seven career starts in Denver.

3 (92): TE Jeff Heuerman, Ohio State — Torn ACL as a rookie; caught just 18 passes in two years.

2014

1 (31): CB Bradley Roby, Ohio State — Expected to move into starting role after Aqib Talib‘s departure.

2 (56): WR Cody Latimer, Indiana — Signed with the Giants in March after lackluster Broncos’ career.

3 (95): OT Michael Schofield, Michigan — Waived before the 2017 season, picked up by the Chargers.

2013 

1 (28): DT Sylvester Williams, North Carolina — Signed with Tennessee in 2017 after four seasons in Denver.

2 (58): RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin — Flamed out of NFL after two seasons with 731 career yards.

3 (90): CB Kayvon Webster, South Florida — Broncos reserve who started 11 games for Rams last fall.

2012

2 (36): DT Derek Wolfe, Cincinnati — Has started 80 career games with 152 total tackles.

2 (57): QB Brock Osweiler, Arizona State — Signed with Houston in 2016 and now a member of Dolphins.

3 (67): RB Ronnie Hillman, San Diego State — Limited production in Denver; now with Cowboys.

2011

1 (2): LB Von Miller, Texas A&M — Six-time Pro Bowler and key leader of current Broncos team.

2 (45): S Rahim Moore, UCLA — Signed with the Texans in 2015 and now out of the league.

2 (46): OT Orlando Franklin, Miami — Signed with Chargers in 2015; now with Redskins

3 (67): LB Nate Irving, N.C. State — Signed with the Colts in 2015 and now out of the league.

[Joe W. Namath]

If chubb gets 15 sacks a year moving forward, elway is a genius.

[Thai Jet]

57 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

You'll get no argument from me.  He gets mulligans because of his being a great QB with Denver but I have not been impressed thus far with his work as a GM.

[Paradis]

34 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Miller was his first drafts. This recap is from the Denver Post leading into this years drsft.  Maybe he has had some later round succes(I don't think so though) but this is not good.

2017

1 (20): OT Garett Bolles, Utah — Started all 16 games last year, but led team in penalties (10 holding calls).

2 (51): DE DeMarcus Walker, Florida State — Rarely got off the bench; had one sack.

3 (82): WR Carlos Henderson, Louisiana Tech — Missed rookie season with torn thumb ligament.

2016

1 (26): QB Paxton Lynch, Memphis — Started only two games in each of the past two seasons.

2 (59): DT Adam Gotsis, Georgia Tech — Started 13 games last season, but is now subject of a rape investigation.

3 (99): S Justin Simmons, Boston College – Became full-time starter in second season with 49 tackles.

2015

1 (23): LB Shane Ray, Missouri — Missed eight games last season with a wrist injury.

2 (59): OT Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State — Traded to Atlanta in September after seven career starts in Denver.

3 (92): TE Jeff Heuerman, Ohio State — Torn ACL as a rookie; caught just 18 passes in two years.

2014

1 (31): CB Bradley Roby, Ohio State — Expected to move into starting role after Aqib Talib‘s departure.

2 (56): WR Cody Latimer, Indiana — Signed with the Giants in March after lackluster Broncos’ career.

3 (95): OT Michael Schofield, Michigan — Waived before the 2017 season, picked up by the Chargers.

2013 

1 (28): DT Sylvester Williams, North Carolina — Signed with Tennessee in 2017 after four seasons in Denver.

2 (58): RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin — Flamed out of NFL after two seasons with 731 career yards.

3 (90): CB Kayvon Webster, South Florida — Broncos reserve who started 11 games for Rams last fall.

2012

2 (36): DT Derek Wolfe, Cincinnati — Has started 80 career games with 152 total tackles.

2 (57): QB Brock Osweiler, Arizona State — Signed with Houston in 2016 and now a member of Dolphins.

3 (67): RB Ronnie Hillman, San Diego State — Limited production in Denver; now with Cowboys.

2011

1 (2): LB Von Miller, Texas A&M — Six-time Pro Bowler and key leader of current Broncos team.

2 (45): S Rahim Moore, UCLA — Signed with the Texans in 2015 and now out of the league.

2 (46): OT Orlando Franklin, Miami — Signed with Chargers in 2015; now with Redskins

3 (67): LB Nate Irving, N.C. State — Signed with the Colts in 2015 and now out of the league.

I used to think he was one of the best at managing the roster.... that narrative is shot to sh*t. 

Still he manages the team fairly well/respectfully -- but this notion of him being anything but subpar with talent evaluation and drafting is malarkey 

[Paradis]

Next to Josh Allen, B. Chubb was one of the most inflated prospects in the draft. The notion of him getting 10-15 sacks a year is wild to me. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

Chubb was BY FAR the best defensive player of the draft. Giants took a rb, when there were many talented ones available in the 2nd. They goofed passing up on Chubb. I guarantee to you, had mayfield, darnold go 1 and 2 Bowles would be rib punching Mac to take him. 

[C Mart]

59 minutes ago, Larz said:

Wow beane gave details of the call 

Not a great way to develop relationships 

No. And Elway did what he said he would do. If the guy they wanted was still there at 5 they were taking him otherwise he'd do the deal. Which is pretty normal pre-draft trade discussions. 

Pat Kirwan tells the story the Jets had a deal in place, I think w/the Cardinals, to trade up from early 2nd round to late first (Jets didn't have a 1st that year because they used it on the supplemental draft to select WR Rob Moore) as long as the guy the Cards wanted wasn't still on the board...Cards turn comes up on the clock and they call the Jets and say we're going to stay and pick our guy.

So no trade. The draft continues and the pick in the 2nd round right before the Jets is the Falcons and they take a guy named Brett Favre.  Jets then settle for Browning Nagle

[C Mart]

46 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

If chubb gets 15 sacks a year moving forward, elway is a genius.

It's not just Chubb...It's also Von Miller. Who are you going to double? 

[rangerous]

maybe chubb is worth it but two firsts and a second to move up 7 spots is quite a bit and unless elllway was taking a qb, he probably should have made the trade.

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

You may be in the minority here. Everybody loves to get on their knees for Elway around here. He truly is one of the most overrated exec. 

[Beerfish]

If he goes down swinging like Dave kingman or rob deer at least he is doing so going after a premium position he has seen be the difference for his team in the past. 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Next to Josh Allen, B. Chubb was one of the most inflated prospects in the draft. The notion of him getting 10-15 sacks a year is wild to me. 

Respectfully disagree. I think he’s a better prospect than Garrett who went #1 last year. 

[#27TheDominator]

Von Miller went 2nd overall.  How tough was that call?  Picking at the top is fairly easy.  Besides, that was a pretty strong draft.  Avoid Locker and Gabbert and you were golden.  

[Lith]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Miller was his first drafts. This recap is from the Denver Post leading into this years drsft.  Maybe he has had some later round succes(I don't think so though) but this is not good.

2017

1 (20): OT Garett Bolles, Utah — Started all 16 games last year, but led team in penalties (10 holding calls).

2 (51): DE DeMarcus Walker, Florida State — Rarely got off the bench; had one sack.

3 (82): WR Carlos Henderson, Louisiana Tech — Missed rookie season with torn thumb ligament.

2016

1 (26): QB Paxton Lynch, Memphis — Started only two games in each of the past two seasons.

2 (59): DT Adam Gotsis, Georgia Tech — Started 13 games last season, but is now subject of a rape investigation.

3 (99): S Justin Simmons, Boston College – Became full-time starter in second season with 49 tackles.

2015

1 (23): LB Shane Ray, Missouri — Missed eight games last season with a wrist injury.

2 (59): OT Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State — Traded to Atlanta in September after seven career starts in Denver.

3 (92): TE Jeff Heuerman, Ohio State — Torn ACL as a rookie; caught just 18 passes in two years.

2014

1 (31): CB Bradley Roby, Ohio State — Expected to move into starting role after Aqib Talib‘s departure.

2 (56): WR Cody Latimer, Indiana — Signed with the Giants in March after lackluster Broncos’ career.

3 (95): OT Michael Schofield, Michigan — Waived before the 2017 season, picked up by the Chargers.

2013 

1 (28): DT Sylvester Williams, North Carolina — Signed with Tennessee in 2017 after four seasons in Denver.

2 (58): RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin — Flamed out of NFL after two seasons with 731 career yards.

3 (90): CB Kayvon Webster, South Florida — Broncos reserve who started 11 games for Rams last fall.

2012

2 (36): DT Derek Wolfe, Cincinnati — Has started 80 career games with 152 total tackles.

2 (57): QB Brock Osweiler, Arizona State — Signed with Houston in 2016 and now a member of Dolphins.

3 (67): RB Ronnie Hillman, San Diego State — Limited production in Denver; now with Cowboys.

2011

1 (2): LB Von Miller, Texas A&M — Six-time Pro Bowler and key leader of current Broncos team.

2 (45): S Rahim Moore, UCLA — Signed with the Texans in 2015 and now out of the league.

2 (46): OT Orlando Franklin, Miami — Signed with Chargers in 2015; now with Redskins

3 (67): LB Nate Irving, N.C. State — Signed with the Colts in 2015 and now out of the league.

He took two of my favorite WR prospects.  Cody Latimer and Carlos Henderson.  Neither guy has had much impact -- although Henderson was hurt last year.  Never listen to me about WR prosepcts.  Which means Cowboy draftee this year, Michael Gallup will probably suck.

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Next to Josh Allen, B. Chubb was one of the most inflated prospects in the draft. The notion of him getting 10-15 sacks a year is wild to me. 

I didn’t pay much attention to the non top QB players, but Chubb didn’t scream no doubt about it game changing edge rusher like say Myles Garrett did last year just from listening to the talking heads talk about the draft in general, but also the 22nd pick in this draft apparently was the same as the 42nd pick according to some as they said the difference from 20-50 was not that great, and Seattle taking Penny where they did kind of shows this.

Anyways to your point I agree Chubb wasn’t worth passing on 12, 22, and 2nd rounder, BUT staying put to take Nelson, R Smith, or Rosen I’d get it, but if Chubb was your guy you could have got Davenport, Hughes, and Guice to go with Sutton.  Chubb, and Sutton<<<<<<< Davenport, Hughes, Guice, and Sutton for example.  You can probably say the same for Nelson, and Smith thou those 2 are considered can’t miss future all pro’s, but at non premium positions.

[New York Mick]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

I liked Denver’s draft/FA. They have a new QB and they got him weapons and protection (2 - WRs, 2 RBs, a blocking TE and OG) plus picked up a great edge guy in Chubbs. I would of taken Nelson instead to add to the FA oline signed but they might be losing two edge guys next season so it makes sense. They also picked up a needed ILB. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Respectfully disagree. I think he’s a better prospect than Garrett who went #1 last year. 

World would be boring if we all thought alike. 

To me, Chubb is a prototypical 4-3 DE, deluxe edition. But he will not be a pass rushing phenom in the NFL. He tested poorly in the most important areas at the combine - which only further favored the narrative that he's not that explosive. Somewhere in November, the draft community decided to anoint him as the #1 defensive product, and since then, evaluators just mailed it in with Chubb IMO.

We'll see, I could be wrong. 

[jmat321]

Idk you get that pressure off the edge they are expected to produce now, you are going to create takeaways and short fields for Case K.  He would probably excel under those circumstances.  We shall see though.

[Thai Jet]

4 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Here ya go...And I agree. Always argued this when the Cousins debate was happening. His success as an exec is mostly due to Peyton Manning. 

Beane also had a deal in advance with Broncos General Manager John Elway that would have seen the Bills send the 12th overall pick, the 22nd overall pick and a second-round pick to Denver in exchange for the fifth overall pick. But Elway said he would only do that if the player he wanted was off the board at No. 5. It turned out the player Elway wanted, Bradley Chubb, was available, and the Broncos stayed put and drafted him.

“John calls me and says, ‘All right, here’s what we’ll do,’” Beane said. “We finalized the deal, but it’s contingent on his guy not being there. . . . I was a little bummed when Elway told me, ‘Hey, this is our guy.’ I felt like what I had to offer John was better than anybody else could offer. I felt like I was bidding against myself, basically.”

In the end, Beane got a much better deal: To trade up from 12 to 7, Beane only had to give the Buccaneers two second-round picks, and not the 22nd pick in the first round. That allowed Beane to get Allen and then make another trade in the first round to get another player he wanted, linebacker Tremaine Edmunds. Beane thinks the trades he made ended up even better than the trades he tried to make.

As much as I hate to admit it I was most impressed with the Bills deals at draft time. They moved up from 21 and 22 to 7th and 16th without giving up their #1 in 2019. Good dealing.

[Thai Jet]

5 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Chubb was BY FAR the best defensive player of the draft. Giants took a rb, when there were many talented ones available in the 2nd. They goofed passing up on Chubb. I guarantee to you, had mayfield, darnold go 1 and 2 Bowles would be rib punching Mac to take him. 

Doubt it. Macc traded up from #6 to #3 to draft a QB. If he hadn't he'd have been crucified . In your scenario we'd have picked Rosen and told eveyrone "we got the QB we wanted all along"

[BigRy56]

Franchise QBs cover up everything. Peyton Manning makes everybody around him look like a genius. With a healthy Andrew Luck, Chuck Pagano was a good coach.

Now that Elway has no QB, he sucks.

[Villain The Foe]

8 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Passed up 2 1sts and a 2nd to take Bradley Chubb. I anticipate I'll be iin the minority, but I think he's the most overrated Exec in the NFL.

I tried to paste the PFT article, but apparently I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

You're in the minority, but on the right side of things....and not just because of this situation. John Elway has lived off of his name and the fact that he was gifted Manning and got two SB appearances from it. 

I've seen folks talk up Elway as if he was "the standard", especially when talking about QB's. This is a guy who Paid Keenum 20 million but literally passed on him the year prior. Im not even going to get into his drafting. 

With that said though, Bradley Chubb was a solid pick, but if I was the GM I would have taken the two 1st rounders along with the 2nd rounder, then drafted Harold Landry in the 2nd round and been content with my decision. 

 

[slimjasi]

I think Chubb has the potential to end up being particularly valuable to Denver because of the fact that they already have Von Miller. Having two legit edge rushers, one on either side, can make your pass defense lights out. 

[Doggin94it]

12 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Chubb was BY FAR the best defensive player of the draft. Giants took a rb, when there were many talented ones available in the 2nd. They goofed passing up on Chubb. I guarantee to you, had mayfield, darnold go 1 and 2 Bowles would be rib punching Mac to take him. 

Jets didn't even stack their prospect board for round 1 because all that mattered were the QBs.  Bowles could have suplexed him and we'd still have taken our qb3 there

[chirorob]

8 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

Franchise QBs cover up everything. Peyton Manning makes everybody around him look like a genius. With a healthy Andrew Luck, Chuck Pagano was a good coach.

Now that Elway has no QB, he sucks.

Elway won a superbowl with old Manning, a guy who was below average.  He won with 2 stud OLB pass rushers.  They hit Brady more than anyone i can remember.

So, he sees a chance to repeat that.  2 stud pass rushers (potentially).  I dont blane him for taking Chubb.

[Jetsplayer21]

8 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Jets didn't even stack their prospect board for round 1 because all that mattered were the QBs.  Bowles could have suplexed him and we'd still have taken our qb3 there

I’m not so sure. Sure that is what we would want him to do. Remember out of all the gms in NFL, nobody believes more in “BPA” than mac. Would he actually finally admit his lifelong flawed thinking by taking the 3rd best qb? Lol and pass up the overall BPA on D and O? I think Mac was willing to pass up Those #1 BPA for his 2nd qb choice, but not his 3rd. I don’t believe he had a 3rd and was just banking on 1 of the 2 falling to him. I bet Bowles was hoping that would happen 

[Jetsplayer21]

17 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

Doubt it. Macc traded up from #6 to #3 to draft a QB. If he hadn't he'd have been crucified . In your scenario we'd have picked Rosen and told eveyrone "we got the QB we wanted all along"

I doubt that. I think Rosen wasn’t even a possibility. He acted like a complete spoiled brat draft night, don’t think Johnsons would sign off on guy like that. Especially after the hat. Darnold is a great kid. Allen is racist dumbass. I think Mac only had two qbs on his 1st round board. He would trade back or go back to his strong belief of BPA and pick the overall best player on D or O if darnold and mayfield were gone. That would be the safe pick, and get him imediate wins next yr

[Doggin94it]

33 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I’m not so sure. Sure that is what we would want him to do. Remember out of all the gms in NFL, nobody believes more in “BPA” than mac. Would he actually finally admit his lifelong flawed thinking by taking the 3rd best qb? Lol and pass up the overall BPA on D and O? I think Mac was willing to pass up Those #1 BPA for his 2nd qb choice, but not his 3rd. I don’t believe he had a 3rd and was just banking on 1 of the 2 falling to him. I bet Bowles was hoping that would happen 

I'm not making this up.  Mehta reported that Mac instructed his people not to stack the board on draft night:

Quote

For the first time, Maccagnan did not even put a final grade on any of the Top 5 quarterback prospects for fear that word might trickle out and jeopardize the most pivotal decision of his professional life. So, there was no record of the quarterback final grades in the Jets' digital draft program or on the old-school cards that typically get stacked on one of the two big draft boards. Every other player except Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Allen and Jackson had a final grade next to his name. The cards identifying the Top 5 quarterbacks were separated from the rest of the cards.

...

The Jets have two boards in their war room: One for draftable players and another for priority free-agent targets. On the first night of the draft, Maccagnan told the Coordinator of College Scouting Dan Zbojovsky to leave the board of draftable players down.

There was no reason to stack the big board. The Jets weren't trading down from the No. 3 pick. Only two players would be gone. They were taking one of those coveted quarterbacks. That wasn't exactly breaking news. So, what sense did it make to stack a bunch of players that weren't a consideration on Day 1? 

I mean, I know it doesn't fit with your narrative, so it'll be hard for you to accept, but facts are facts - they weren't taking anyone but a QB at 3, regardless of how the first 2 picks went.