Lebron is decent

[Patriot Killa]

8 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

LeBron is the GOAT imo. I have watched a ton of Basketball in my life and even fromway beyond my  time.

Bron just impacts the game more. K.Love was out and they were in Boston..the odds were stacked in an insane manner.. he still pulls it out. 

[CTM]

On 5/26/2018 at 9:58 PM, Matt39 said:

The game has changed but putting MJ over Lebron at this point is purely nostalgic. Lebrons the better scorer, passer and rebounder and is the best player in the league at 33 with no signs of slowing down.

How is Lebron a better scorer when he scores less points per game? I don't really follow basketball anymore so I'm curious

[Patriot Killa]

23 minutes ago, CTM said:

How is Lebron a better scorer when he scores less points per game? I don't really follow basketball anymore so I'm curious

He’s not a better scorer. He’s not far off career stats wise..and as someone who agrees that’s LeBron is better..I will say this..

He’s not the better scorer. He’s a facilitator though, he impacts the game in more ways than MJ could.

Bron however owns the record for most points in a career for the post season. Most steals as well.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

How is Lebron a better scorer when he scores less points per game? I don't really follow basketball anymore so I'm curious

More efficient, better 3point shooter.

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

LeBron is the GOAT imo. I have watched a ton of Basketball in my life and even fromway beyond my  time.

Bron just impacts the game more. K.Love was out and they were in Boston..the odds were stacked in an insane manner.. he still pulls it out. 

Losing K-love was addition by subtraction.  Their team defense got a lot better once he was out early in game 6

 

Love is the most overrated player in the nba by far

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

How is Lebron a better scorer when he scores less points per game? I don't really follow basketball anymore so I'm curious

Lebron does everything else better than Jordan.  Jordan was also on better teams

[Patriot Killa]

23 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Losing K-love was addition by subtraction.  Their team defense got a lot better once he was out early in game 6

 

Love is the most overrated player in the nba by far

Very overrated, true. But he was their best secondary scorer nonetheless.

[nyjunc]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:38 AM, slimjasi said:

I agree. I don't think Lebron has the competitive drive that Jordan had. I just think he is an athletic freak of nature. Basically "a man playing with boys" sort of deal. 

Lebron is a top 5 all time player, probably top 3.  I am not saying he isn't an incredible player but I can't put a guy over Michael that had to form superteams to win and also a guy who flops and complains as much as he does. 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 12:44 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

The whole team is minus a billion. What he's done this playoffs is nuts.

He's awesome but he's playing against the JV,. the east is absolutely awful and he needed 7 games to beat 2 of the east teams including a team in the East finals that was missing their 2 best players.

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:58 PM, Matt39 said:

The game has changed but putting MJ over Lebron at this point is purely nostalgic. Lebrons the better scorer, passer and rebounder and is the best player in the league at 33 with no signs of slowing down.

better scorer except he scores less. Michael was a 10 time scoring champ, Lebron 1x

better passer? sure

better rebounder? it's clo0se but Jordan didn't need to rebound as much

better defender? Michael

at age 33 Jordan was better than Lebron.  The only reason  this is even a discussion was b/c Jordan basically missed 2 prime seasons in 94 and 95 and then retired at age 34.

He basically played 12 full seasons in Chicago and in those 12 seasons:

won 10 scoring titles(Lebron has 1 in 15 full seasons)

6 championships(Lebron has 3 thanks to joining superteams in 15 seasons)

6 Finals MVPs(Lebron 3)

9x 1st team all D(LeBron 6x)

5x MVP(Lebron 4)

1x DPOY(Lebron zero)

led in steals 3x(Lebron zero)

 

heck, the only categories Lebron has led the NBA in per game averages have been scoring 1x and minutes played 3x.  Jordan led in scoring PPG 10x, steals 3x, MP 2x. In total #s Lebron led MP 3x, Fgs made 5x, 2P made 3x, FTs made 1x. pts scored 1x.  Compare that to Jordan: MP 3x, FGs made 10x, 2p made 9x, FTYs made 2x, pts scored 11x, steals 3x. 

This was also the first season in Lebron's career he played a full 82 reg season  games, Jordan did in 9 times. Lebron played at least 80 reg season games just THREE times in his career, Jordan 11 times.

Lebron is an all time great, he's not even close to Michael.

 

17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I love this post.  What did those guys do without him besides win Championships and have HOF careers

 

Cleveland is winning 20 games next season if Lebron leaves

 

Like Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, etc...?

How many did Chicago win in 1999? post Michael Chicago didn't make the playoffs again until 2005, didn't win a playoff series again until 2007. year 2 w/o Lebron and Miami won a playoff series, the year before Lebron got there Miami won almost 50 games and was a playoff team.

 

Cleveland was steadily improving before Lebron went back there and they loaded up to help Lebron win so yeah they'll suck w/o him as they got rid of young talent to win now w/ Lebron.

10 hours ago, Matt39 said:

More efficient, better 3point shooter.

Not by much and considering how the game is a 3 pt shooting game now Michael was more efficient compared to his era and if Michael played in this era he would have willed himself to become a great 3 pt shooter.  The game is totally different from when Michael played, now it's a glorified 3 pt shooting contest. 

 

Lebron is great, he's not Michael.  He's bigger but he's also a whining flopper.  Jordan was the better player by a wide margin and I don't care how many times he wins the weak East.  When's the last time he faced real competition in the East?  but when he faces the west he doesn't seem to have the same results.  he barely won 2 titles w/ Miami and won in Cleveland thanks to Curry being hurt and Green being suspended. 

[Philc1]

20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Lebron is a top 5 all time player, probably top 3.  I am not saying he isn't an incredible player but I can't put a guy over Michael that had to form superteams to win and also a guy who flops and complains as much as he does. 

He's awesome but he's playing against the JV,. the east is absolutely awful and he needed 7 games to beat 2 of the east teams including a team in the East finals that was missing their 2 best players.

better scorer except he scores less. Michael was a 10 time scoring champ, Lebron 1x

better passer? sure

better rebounder? it's clo0se but Jordan didn't need to rebound as much

better defender? Michael

at age 33 Jordan was better than Lebron.  The only reason  this is even a discussion was b/c Jordan basically missed 2 prime seasons in 94 and 95 and then retired at age 34.

He basically played 12 full seasons in Chicago and in those 12 seasons:

won 10 scoring titles(Lebron has 1 in 15 full seasons)

6 championships(Lebron has 3 thanks to joining superteams in 15 seasons)

6 Finals MVPs(Lebron 3)

9x 1st team all D(LeBron 6x)

5x MVP(Lebron 4)

1x DPOY(Lebron zero)

led in steals 3x(Lebron zero)

 

heck, the only categories Lebron has led the NBA in per game averages have been scoring 1x and minutes played 3x.  Jordan led in scoring PPG 10x, steals 3x, MP 2x. In total #s Lebron led MP 3x, Fgs made 5x, 2P made 3x, FTs made 1x. pts scored 1x.  Compare that to Jordan: MP 3x, FGs made 10x, 2p made 9x, FTYs made 2x, pts scored 11x, steals 3x. 

This was also the first season in Lebron's career he played a full 82 reg season  games, Jordan did in 9 times. Lebron played at least 80 reg season games just THREE times in his career, Jordan 11 times.

Lebron is an all time great, he's not even close to Michael.

 

Like Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, etc...?

How many did Chicago win in 1999? post Michael Chicago didn't make the playoffs again until 2005, didn't win a playoff series again until 2007. year 2 w/o Lebron and Miami won a playoff series, the year before Lebron got there Miami won almost 50 games and was a playoff team.

 

Cleveland was steadily improving before Lebron went back there and they loaded up to help Lebron win so yeah they'll suck w/o him as they got rid of young talent to win now w/ Lebron.

Not by much and considering how the game is a 3 pt shooting game now Michael was more efficient compared to his era and if Michael played in this era he would have willed himself to become a great 3 pt shooter.  The game is totally different from when Michael played, now it's a glorified 3 pt shooting contest. 

 

Lebron is great, he's not Michael.  He's bigger but he's also a whining flopper.  Jordan was the better player by a wide margin and I don't care how many times he wins the weak East.  When's the last time he faced real competition in the East?  but when he faces the west he doesn't seem to have the same results.  he barely won 2 titles w/ Miami and won in Cleveland thanks to Curry being hurt and Green being suspended. 

The bulls won 55 games without Jordan in 1994 and almost beat the Knicks in the playoffs to get to another NBA Finals

 

In 1999 they didn’t just lose Jordan they lost the entire nucleus along with Jordan 

 

 

Wade is also the only HOFer Lebron has ever played with

 

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Lebron does everything else better than Jordan.  Jordan was also on better teams

I broke that down last page, Lebron has played w/ more talent on his title winning teams than Jordan.  Jordan had Pippen, LeBron had Wade, Bosh, Irving and Love and plays in a much weaker east.  when the east had good teams Lebron wasn't making the Finals.

also, there were more good teams in the NBA in Jordan's era.  it wasn't the ear of the superteam, players actually tried to earn championships in their primes(the truly great players) and if they couldn't they'd try to latch on w/ winning teams late in their careers.  In this era the superstars leave their teams early for easy titles and now we have 2-3 really good/great teams and a bunch of mediocrity(really the only great team is GS). 

 

1991 Jordan led Chicago to a sweep of the 2 time defending NBA champs in the EC Finals then beat Magic and a 58 win laker team in the Finals in 5 games.  In that series Chicago became the first team to sweep the middle 3 games of the Finals on the road.

1992 beat 57 win Cle team in east finals, 57 win Port team in finals

1993 beat 60 win Knicks team in EC Finals, 62 win Suns in Finals

1996 beat 60 win Shaq/Penny Magic team in EC Finals in 4 game sweep, beat 64 win Seattle team in finals

1997 beat 61 win Heat in ECF, 64 win Jazz in Finals

1998  beat 58 win Ind in ECF, 62 win jazz in finals

 

Lebron:

2007 Finals, lost to 58 win Spurs

2011 beat 62 win Bulls in ECF, lost to 57 win Mavs in finals

2012 beat 39 win Bos in ECF in 7 games, beat 47 win Thunder in Finals

2013 beat 49 win Ind in 7 games in ECF, beat 58 win spurs in 7 where Ray Allen saved the heat or they would have lost in 6.

2014 beat 56 win Ind in ECF, lost to 62 win spurs in 5.

2015 beat 60 win hawks in ECF, lost to 67 win GS in finals

2016 beat 56 win Tor in ECF, beat 73 win GS in finals(thanks to Curry being hurt and Green being suspended)

2017 beat 53 win Bos in ECF, lost to 67 win GS in finals

2018 beat 48 win Ind in 7 games in 1st rd, beat 55 win Bos in 7 games in ECF minus their 2 best players. about to lose to GS again unless a key injury/suspension  happens again.

 

 

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The bulls won 55 games without Jordan in 1994 and almost beat the Knicks in the playoffs to get to another NBA Finals

 

In 1999 they didn’t just lose Jordan they lost the entire nucleus along with Jordan 

 

 

Wade is also the only HOFer Lebron has ever played with

 

if they beat the knicks they would have skipped the East finals?  that was the east semis.

but Cleveland sucked in 2011 b/c they just lost Lebron, right? nothing else changed, right?

Bosh will be a HOFer, Jordan only played w/ 2 HOFers and he won 3 titles w/o the 2nd guy who couldn't win w/ david Robinson before him or Shaq after him. Love may be a HOFer, Irving is on his way to a HOF career if he gets healthy. 

Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA when Jordan played w/ him.  Pippen was not close to a top 3 player w/ Jordan.

Pippen was still in his prime on a loaded Blazers team and couldn't win after leaving Michael.

[CTM]

How many are above the age of 40 and think LeBron is better?

To me Jordan is the GOAT until someone can make a statistical case that they are better, but I grew up watching Jordan dominate so nostalgia makes that my default 

[Matt39]

Always gets glossed over. Jordan played like ass during this series. Everyone has selective memories. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-magic.html

 

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I broke that down last page, Lebron has played w/ more talent on his title winning teams than Jordan.  Jordan had Pippen, LeBron had Wade, Bosh, Irving and Love and plays in a much weaker east.  when the east had good teams Lebron wasn't making the Finals.

also, there were more good teams in the NBA in Jordan's era.  it wasn't the ear of the superteam, players actually tried to earn championships in their primes(the truly great players) and if they couldn't they'd try to latch on w/ winning teams late in their careers.  In this era the superstars leave their teams early for easy titles and now we have 2-3 really good/great teams and a bunch of mediocrity(really the only great team is GS). 

 

1991 Jordan led Chicago to a sweep of the 2 time defending NBA champs in the EC Finals then beat Magic and a 58 win laker team in the Finals in 5 games.  In that series Chicago became the first team to sweep the middle 3 games of the Finals on the road.

1992 beat 57 win Cle team in east finals, 57 win Port team in finals

1993 beat 60 win Knicks team in EC Finals, 62 win Suns in Finals

1996 beat 60 win Shaq/Penny Magic team in EC Finals in 4 game sweep, beat 64 win Seattle team in finals

1997 beat 61 win Heat in ECF, 64 win Jazz in Finals

1998  beat 58 win Ind in ECF, 62 win jazz in finals

 

Lebron:

2007 Finals, lost to 58 win Spurs

2011 beat 62 win Bulls in ECF, lost to 57 win Mavs in finals

2012 beat 39 win Bos in ECF in 7 games, beat 47 win Thunder in Finals

2013 beat 49 win Ind in 7 games in ECF, beat 58 win spurs in 7 where Ray Allen saved the heat or they would have lost in 6.

2014 beat 56 win Ind in ECF, lost to 62 win spurs in 5.

2015 beat 60 win hawks in ECF, lost to 67 win GS in finals

2016 beat 56 win Tor in ECF, beat 73 win GS in finals(thanks to Curry being hurt and Green being suspended)

2017 beat 53 win Bos in ECF, lost to 67 win GS in finals

2018 beat 48 win Ind in 7 games in 1st rd, beat 55 win Bos in 7 games in ECF minus their 2 best players. about to lose to GS again unless a key injury/suspension  happens again.

 

 

Jordan’s teams had: Pippen (top 20 player of all time),Rodman (incredible defender and rebounder, if he’s not HOF he should be, Kukoc (one of the greatest European players ever, excellent defender and would be even better today), Ron Harper (most underrated player on those teams, lock down pg defender) and Horace Grant who was a very good PF

 

Lebron in comparison has played with only one HOFer Wade

 

And if you want to talk competition Jordan never sniffed the NBA Finals until both those 80’s Celtics and Pistons teams got old

 

 

The Knicks with good, not great talent were Jordan’s best competition during his title run which he had a literal forcefield surrounding him thanks to the referees

 

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

if they beat the knicks they would have skipped the East finals?  that was the east semis.

but Cleveland sucked in 2011 b/c they just lost Lebron, right? nothing else changed, right?

Bosh will be a HOFer, Jordan only played w/ 2 HOFers and he won 3 titles w/o the 2nd guy who couldn't win w/ david Robinson before him or Shaq after him. Love may be a HOFer, Irving is on his way to a HOF career if he gets healthy. 

Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA when Jordan played w/ him.  Pippen was not close to a top 3 player w/ Jordan.

Pippen was still in his prime on a loaded Blazers team and couldn't win after leaving Michael.

Take Lebron off the cavaliers they maybe win 20 games

 

Take Jordan off the bulls they win 55 games and almost go to an nba final

 

Pippen was old by the time the blazers traded for him 

 

What HOF is Bosh supposedly getting into?

 

 Your argument is Jordan nostalgia bs

[#27TheDominator]

Scottie Pippen top 20 all-time?  He is lucky if he was top 20 when he played. 

[Philc1]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Scottie Pippen top 20 all-time?  He is lucky if he was top 20 when he played. 

There goes your credibility 

[slimjasi]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Lebron is a top 5 all time player, probably top 3.  I am not saying he isn't an incredible player but I can't put a guy over Michael that had to form superteams to win and also a guy who flops and complains as much as he does. 

Lebron is the best basketball player I have ever seen and I'd put him number one on my personal list, but I have no issue with anyone picking Jordan over Lebron. 

[JustInFudge]

17 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

LeBron is the GOAT imo. I have watched a ton of Basketball in my life and even fromway beyond my  time.

Bron just impacts the game more. K.Love was out and they were in Boston..the odds were stacked in an insane manner.. he still pulls it out. 

You're 19 years old.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

You're 19 years old.

Correction..22 years old.

 

and that’s why I put “I have also watched a ton of basketball from beyond my time.”

[Patriot Killa]

And nobody wants to bring up the fact that Jordan got embarrassed in the first and second round on multiple occasions. Penny and the Magic stomped him out.

I’m tired of this “super team” excuse. So Jordan didn’t have one of the best defenders to ever live in Pippin and one of the best rebounders to ever live in Rodman? C’mon now......

Lol...but I guess George Hill, JR Smith, Kyle Korver and K Love overrated ass are just the new All-NBA line up?

Yeah! Lets pretend that LeBron didn’t have to use every fiber in his body to stave off a Pacers and Celtics elimination all by himself. The Cavs are a 20 win team in the weakest conference in the NBA without LeBron.

[Klecko73isGod]

LeBron is the GOAT. 

F*** Michael Jordan. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Scottie Pippen top 20 all-time?  He is lucky if he was top 20 when he played. 

wat

[CrazyCarl40]

I think you guys all have it a little backward. I’m not so much interested in who each played with as I am with who each beat to get to the ring. Jordan’s time was filled with many magnificent players and he beat many stacked and hall of famer teams. Who is LeBron beating? The NBA of today is not as good collectively as the NBA of Jordan’s day. That’s just my thought on it. 

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I think you guys all have it a little backward. I’m not so much interested in who each played with as I am with who each beat to get to the ring. Jordan’s time was filled with many magnificent players and he beat many stacked and hall of famer teams. Who is LeBron beating? The NBA of today is not as good collectively as the NBA of Jordan’s day. That’s just my thought on it. 

Not for nothing but Jordan didn't win sh*t until Magic and Larry aged out. 

[JustInFudge]

50 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

And nobody wants to bring up the fact that Jordan got embarrassed in the first and second round on multiple occasions. Penny and the Magic stomped him out.

I’m tired of this “super team” excuse. So Jordan didn’t have one of the best defenders to ever live in Pippin and one of the best rebounders to ever live in Rodman? C’mon now......

Lol...but I guess George Hill, JR Smith, Kyle Korver and K Love overrated ass are just the new All-NBA line up?

Yeah! Lets pretend that LeBron didn’t have to use every fiber in his body to stave off a Pacers and Celtics elimination all by himself. The Cavs are a 20 win team in the weakest conference in the NBA without LeBron.

You were 7 years old. 

[JustInFudge]

32 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

LeBron is the GOAT. 

F*** Michael Jordan. 

^^^ angry Knicks fan who hates Jordan because the Knicks could never beat Jordan

[Klecko73isGod]

Just now, JiF said:

^^^ angry Knicks fan who hates Jordan because the Knicks could never beat Jordan

I also hate North Carolina. 

I also hate the Heat and the Cavs because I am a Knicks fan. 

Michael Jordan was a nice player. Lebron is better. 

[RutgersJetFan]

23 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I think you guys all have it a little backward. I’m not so much interested in who each played with as I am with who each beat to get to the ring. Jordan’s time was filled with many magnificent players and he beat many stacked and hall of famer teams. Who is LeBron beating? The NBA of today is not as good collectively as the NBA of Jordan’s day. That’s just my thought on it. 

I'm not sure why it's Lebron's problem that he plays what's put in front of him. I think the biggest factor working against Lebron in the comparison is hand checking. If Jordan played in this era I honestly believe he'd be averaging 40 a night, and if Lebron played in the 90s when it was legal to foul at a clip, who knows.

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm not sure why it's Lebron's problem that he plays what's put in front of him. I think the biggest factor working against Lebron in the comparison is hand checking. If Jordan played in this era I honestly believe he'd be averaging 40 a night, and if Lebron played in the 90s when it was legal to foul at a clip, who knows.

The hand check was legal until the 93 postseason when it looked like the Knicks might finally have the team to get it done and David Stern issued the edict to enforce the hand check at the start of the playoffs. 

The enforcement of the hand check rule probably won Jordan 4 titles. 

Can you imagine what Bird would have scored nightly without hand checking?

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

The hand check was legal until the 93 postseason when it looked like the Knicks might finally have the team to get it done and David Stern issued the edict to enforce the hand check at the start of the playoffs. 

The enforcement of the hand check rule probably won Jordan 4 titles. 

Can you imagine what Bird would have scored nightly without hand checking?

Yeah, the whole thing is overwhelming when it comes to variables. Stats are nice, but grasping the entire context of just how different the game was can't be created accurately enough in a model. For example, Lebron's also playing in an era where science is insane and athletic primes last way, waaaayyyy longer. Between the regular season and playoff games, a guy with Lebron's mileage in the 90s would have fallen off a cliff by now.

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yeah, the whole thing is overwhelming when it comes to variables. Stats are nice, but grasping the entire context of just how different the game was can't be created accurately enough in a model. Lebron's also playing in an era where science is insane and athletic primes last way, waaaayyyy longer. Between the regular season and playoff games, a guy with Lebron's mileage in the 90s would have fallen off a cliff by now.

Plus, Lebron was getting checked quite a bit in game 7.

[Patriot Killa]

17 minutes ago, JiF said:

You were 7 years old. 

So nothing I say matters?

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

So nothing I say matters?

Nope, it doesn't.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Nope, it doesn't.

Well I suppose I’ll see my way out of the conversation then...