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True NFL Draft Grades: 2014 Draft, Four Years Later


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30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What Jet writer tweeted this?  I have been ranting it all along.  Cimini had said at the end of 2016 that they gave him a bunch of help in his starts at the end of the year, but last year they didn't mention it.  I consistently saw them put TEs and Qvale outside him and was not impressed.  OTOH, I didn't study him, other than to review some of the Raider game to show that his "shutting down Khalil Mack" was a mirage."  I think Bit said Shell did better than people thought, which was surprising.  It will be interesting if Dennison can get more out of him and if he fits the scheme. 

Michael Nania said he had Shell as responsible for 6 sacks through the 7 games he evaluated.

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39 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If you have gangrene on your pinky toe and put a bandaid, you can't say it's not your fault when they amputate your foot. 

Not even sure what this means.  To try to use your analogy Mac put a "bandaid" on the team and it healed itself 100%.  So should it be his fault if the healed toe you treated heals but then the next year your entire hand needs to be amputated? Is it his fault that after playing well in 2015 and never having a hint of a poor effort in his entire career that Revis stopped trying?

Our 2015 team beat the pats at home and was playing as well as any team that made the playoffs that season and Mac did a good job putting it together.

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44 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Not even sure what this means.  To try to use your analogy Mac put a "bandaid" on the team and it healed itself 100%.  So should it be his fault if the healed toe you treated heals but then the next year your entire hand needs to be amputated? Is it his fault that after playing well in 2015 and never having a hint of a poor effort in his entire career that Revis stopped trying?

Our 2015 team beat the pats at home and was playing as well as any team that made the playoffs that season and Mac did a good job putting it together.

You know exactly what it means. 

You think that 10-6 against that schedule was "healed 100%?"  They didn't even make the playoffs.  Nice that you remember beating the Pats in 2015.  I think the Pats were the only winning team they beat all season. Most of us remember them folding up against Rex and the 7-8 Bills week 17.  If he did a good job putting the team together, they would not be a 5-11 team. 

Of course is is Maccagnan's fault that he paid dogs.  Knowing which players will fall off the face of the earth and dog it, like Revis and Wilkerson, is his actual job description. His job is to draft and sign useful players and not pay guys more than then they are worth over the course of their contract.  All the dead money paid Revis, Fitzpatrick, Wilkerson, Gilchrist is not a badge of honor - it is a sign that he did not evaluate the players ability to perform over the life of the contract. 

He took over a 4-12 team. He created a team that can consistently go 5-11 with a veteran QB.  Kudos. 

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2 hours ago, BCJet said:

Look, I was shocked we didnt take an Olineman in this draft and even started a thread about it, but as you look at our draft class, we didnt really pass on any clear must pick Olineman.  Plus, I think that Mac (and a lot of other teams) look at Olineman as very hard to develop given the practice restrictions and would rather pay a FA lineman then draft and develop one.

Im more concerned that one of the Jet writers put out a tweet that Brandon Shell struggled more then people think last year and really needs to improve.  I hope a lot of that is due to Winters injury, but he is a player that needs to be an average starter at least for this team in 2018.

It’s more than just about this draft I don’t think we’ve taken a first round lineman since mangold or brick. That’s ridiculous. Also we did squat in FA again this year. 

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12 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

There are two ways of looking at that draft. First...yes idzik guessed wrong and got cute and really screwed the pooch. Second...he was able to amass 12 picks, many of them by manipulating the comp pick system.  So yeah, he whiffed most of them, but he generated the picks in the first place. In a perfect world he would manage and Mangini would be in charge of the draft. As it is Tannenbaum set the stage for disaster while Idzik dug us out of the rubble, only to trip on his own dick and hand the reigns to a guy who pissed away all of the equity on garbage free agent signings. There's a reason we constantly rebuild. Idzik had the best plan and the best system.  Bit the worst execution.

3

So in a perfect world, a world in which everything is perfect, the perfect situation for the Jets would be to have John Idzik running the team with Eric Mangini in charge of the draft? 

*reaches for medication*

Mangini lust baffles me more than maybe every other subset of Jet fan disease. How is it that this Mangenius hasn't had an NFL job since 2015? And was out of work for three years before he managed that gig? What do the Fanginis know that the league doesn't? I guess FS1 is really onto something there. 

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57 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You know exactly what it means. 

You think that 10-6 against that schedule was "healed 100%?"  They didn't even make the playoffs.  Nice that you remember beating the Pats in 2015.  I think the Pats were the only winning team they beat all season. Most of us remember them folding up against Rex and the 7-8 Bills week 17.  If he did a good job putting the team together, they would not be a 5-11 team. 

Of course is is Maccagnan's fault that he paid dogs.  Knowing which players will fall off the face of the earth and dog it, like Revis and Wilkerson, is his actual job description. His job is to draft and sign useful players and not pay guys more than then they are worth over the course of their contract.  All the dead money paid Revis, Fitzpatrick, Wilkerson, Gilchrist is not a badge of honor - it is a sign that he did not evaluate the players ability to perform over the life of the contract. 

He took over a 4-12 team. He created a team that can consistently go 5-11 with a veteran QB.  Kudos. 

I remember very clearly folding against the Bills.  You want to kill him for Marcus Gilchrist and Fitzpatrick - was there some other QB he should have gone out an gotten?  How did Gilchrist play in 2015?  Was Mac supposed to see forecast his injury (he missed 2 total games in the prior 5 seasons) How did Brandon Marshall and Carpenter work out for that team?

I also understand what a GMs job is and Wilkerson was a mistake, but Revis had never ever given an inclination of having an issue with effort, he didnt when he signed initially and for some reason decided to quit in 2016.  He took over a 4-12 team and made it immediately competitive with also being able to do a full rebuild by not crippling the team with future bad money.  

Is he great, no.  But to discount what Idzik gave him is simply making the argument fit your preconceived notion.

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

So in a perfect world, a world in which everything is perfect, the perfect situation for the Jets would be to have John Idzik running the team with Eric Mangini in charge of the draft? 

*reaches for medication*

Mangini lust baffles me more than maybe every other subset of Jet fan disease. How is it that this Mangenius hasn't had an NFL job since 2015? And was out of work for three years before he managed that gig? What do the Fanginis know that the league doesn't? I guess FS1 is really onto something there. 

Given what we’ve seen recently, it’s not all that hard to get yourself blacklisted from the NFL. SpyGate wasn’t just about competitive advantage and nonsense football stuff, it compromised what Goodell really cares about—Vegas money. Given the repeat failures that stick around League offices forever, and in coaching ranks forever, there’s really no other explanation for why Mangini isn’t in the NFL.

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Just now, BCJet said:

I remember very clearly folding against the Bills.  You want to kill him for Marcus Gilchrist and Fitzpatrick - was there some other QB he should have gone out an gotten?  How did Gilchrist play in 2015?  Was Mac supposed to see forecast his injury (he missed 2 total games in the prior 5 seasons) How did Brandon Marshall and Carpenter work out for that team?

I also understand what a GMs job is and Wilkerson was a mistake, but Revis had never ever given an inclination of having an issue with effort, he didnt when he signed initially and for some reason decided to quit in 2016.  He took over a 4-12 team and made it immediately competitive with also being able to do a full rebuild by not crippling the team with future bad money.  

Is he great, no.  But to discount what Idzik gave him is simply making the argument fit your preconceived notion.

Don’t forget what Dick Steinberg did to the roster. Maccagnan was working against a stacked deck

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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Don’t forget what Dick Steinberg did to the roster. Maccagnan was working against a stacked deck

20 picks (essentially 3 drafts worth of choices) and you get 3 starters and a backup.  That level of ineptitude shouldnt factor into the roster at all.

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12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Given what we’ve seen recently, it’s not all that hard to get yourself blacklisted from the NFL. SpyGate wasn’t just about competitive advantage and nonsense football stuff, it compromised what Goodell really cares about—Vegas money. Given the repeat failures that stick around League offices forever, and in coaching ranks forever, there’s really no other explanation for why Mangini isn’t in the NFL.

1

The other explanation is that he's not nearly as good as the Fanginis think, but that's not an explanation that Fanginis are willing to accept. If he was the personnel guru they believe that he is, he'd be in a behind-the-scenes front office job for one of 31 NFL teams (I think the Pats are pretty safely out of contention). I mean, the Jets would be the team with the first-hand info on him, he broke Spygate working here, why wouldn't the Jets bring him back? 

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

The other explanation is that he's not nearly as good as the Fanginis think, but that's not an explanation that Fanginis are willing to accept. If he was the personnel guru they believe that he is, he'd be in a behind-the-scenes front office job for one of 31 NFL teams (I think the Pats are pretty safely out of contention). I mean, the Jets would be the team with the first-hand info on him, he broke Spygate working here, why wouldn't the Jets bring him back? 

.......because he single-handedly slapped an asterisk on two decades worth of NFL record-keeping as it pertains to the marquis franchise in the NFL?

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21 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I remember very clearly folding against the Bills.  You want to kill him for Marcus Gilchrist and Fitzpatrick - was there some other QB he should have gone out an gotten?  How did Gilchrist play in 2015?  Was Mac supposed to see forecast his injury (he missed 2 total games in the prior 5 seasons) How did Brandon Marshall and Carpenter work out for that team?

I also understand what a GMs job is and Wilkerson was a mistake, but Revis had never ever given an inclination of having an issue with effort, he didnt when he signed initially and for some reason decided to quit in 2016.  He took over a 4-12 team and made it immediately competitive with also being able to do a full rebuild by not crippling the team with future bad money.  

Is he great, no.  But to discount what Idzik gave him is simply making the argument fit your preconceived notion.

If what he did wasn't "crippling the team with future bad money" then why did we take last year off?  Literally no attempt was made to put a competitive team on the field in 2017.  Idzik left him with cap space and draft picks and the team had to take a year off to get back to that spot this offseason.  

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

.......because he single-handedly slapped an asterisk on two decades worth of NFL record-keeping as it pertains to the marquis franchise in the NFL?

If he hadn't had a couple jobs since Spygate, including a head coaching gig, that explanation might hold more water. More likely is that he's not nearly as talented as his never waning supporters believe and/or he's impossible to work with. I'm going with "and." 

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4 minutes ago, slats said:

If he hadn't had a couple jobs since Spygate, including a head coaching gig, that explanation might hold more water. More likely is that he's not nearly as talented as his never waning supporters believe and/or he's impossible to work with. I'm going with "and." 

I was going to say ... 5-11, 5-11 and then DC of a bottom 5 D. 

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On 5/10/2018 at 12:22 PM, slats said:

If he hadn't had a couple jobs since Spygate, including a head coaching gig, that explanation might hold more water. More likely is that he's not nearly as talented as his never waning supporters believe and/or he's impossible to work with. I'm going with "and." 

Yeah.  Who says he a great guy?  We had the best drafts when he was calling the shots.  That's all.  

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On 5/10/2018 at 12:01 PM, slats said:

The other explanation is that he's not nearly as good as the Fanginis think, but that's not an explanation that Fanginis are willing to accept. If he was the personnel guru they believe that he is, he'd be in a behind-the-scenes front office job for one of 31 NFL teams (I think the Pats are pretty safely out of contention). I mean, the Jets would be the team with the first-hand info on him, he broke Spygate working here, why wouldn't the Jets bring him back? 

Ofcourse

 

Mangini stunk in Cleveland after presiding over the greatest ever choke job in Jet history which is saying a lot.  Somehow no FO in the entire NFL has brought on this genius who supposedly drafted Revis, Brick, Mangold etc because... he didn’t the current dolphins GM did

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40 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Ofcourse

 

Mangini stunk in Cleveland after presiding over the greatest ever choke job in Jet history which is saying a lot.  Somehow no FO in the entire NFL has brought on this genius who supposedly drafted Revis, Brick, Mangold etc because... he didn’t the current dolphins GM did

Cool story. The Jets have been Super Bowl contenders twice  in the last thirty years: once with Parcells and the other with Mangini. The teams they built were so good that the core of those teams made two slack-jawed failures in Herm and Rex look respectable. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Cool story. The Jets have been Super Bowl contenders twice  in the last thirty years: once with Parcells and the other with Mangini. The teams they built were so good that the core of those teams made two slack-jawed failures in Herm and Rex look respectable. 

They weren’t Super Bowl contenders under Mangini. They looked like it, but Favre’s arm fell off. Rex took that with Mark #%*^’ing Sanchez at QB (with a few notable additions) much further than Mangini ever got with a HoF’er, or Chad, for that matter. 

Mangini sucked. If Darnold is what we hope he is, Bowles is going to look like a genius. Much like the 2/3’s of one season Mangini looks to you. 

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1 minute ago, slats said:

They weren’t Super Bowl contenders under Mangini. They looked like it, but Favre’s arm fell off. Rex took that with Mark #%*^’ing Sanchez at QB (with a few notable additions) much further than Mangini ever got with a HoF’er, or Chad, for that matter. 

Mangini sucked. If Darnold is what we hope he is, Bowles is going to look like a genius. Much like the 2/3’s of one season Mangini looks to you. 

They were Super Bowl favorites in Vegas after beating Tennessee. I’m not asserting an opinion here. This is recorded history. 

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8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

They were Super Bowl favorites in Vegas after beating Tennessee. I’m not asserting an opinion here. This is recorded history. 

Eric Mangini has a career 0-1 record in the post season, but that’s probably not fair being that the year they were Super Bowl favorites in Las Vegas for a week they failed to even make the playoffs. 

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21 minutes ago, slats said:

Eric Mangini has a career 0-1 record in the post season, but that’s probably not fair being that the year they were Super Bowl favorites in Las Vegas for a week they failed to even make the playoffs. 

Uh huh. Uh huh. Took over a 4-12 team that was $25 million dollars over the salary cap, cleaned house, drafted elite talent at OLT, C, and CB1, signed Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, and Alan Faneca, and drafted a ten year starter at ILB in David Harris. Traded for Thomas Jones. Left all that in the cupboard for Rex, whose amazing coaching ability seemed to disappear once all of those guys Mangini put on the roster fell off the roster, similar to the way Herm looked worse the further he got away from Parcells’ roster. Mangini goes to Cleveland where the ownership hires George Kokinis as his GM, who immediately has a nervous breakdown and has to work from home, then they hire Mike Holmgren as Grand Viseur, who comes in and takes a blowtorch to the franchise and never works in the NFL again. 

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9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Uh huh. Uh huh. Took over a 4-12 team that was $25 million dollars over the salary cap, cleaned house, drafted elite talent at OLT, C, and CB1, signed Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, and Alan Faneca, and drafted a ten year starter at ILB in David Harris. Traded for Thomas Jones. Left all that in the cupboard for Rex, whose amazing coaching ability seemed to disappear once all of those guys Mangini put on the roster fell off the roster, similar to the way Herm looked worse the further he got away from Parcells’ roster. Mangini goes to Cleveland where the ownership hires George Kokinis as his GM, who immediately has a nervous breakdown and has to work from home, then they hire Mike Holmgren as Grand Viseur, who comes in and takes a blowtorch to the franchise and never works in the NFL again. 

Oh so the GM in Cleveland sunk Eric Mangini and set him up to fail but Eric Mangini set up the GM here in NY to do well — how is this incredible shadow GM Eric Mangini not running a NFL front office or at least working as a scout?

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The same guy who has been an outright tire fire as a GM every year other than 2006-2009.

Oh right the 7th grade logic argument that people should always have the same level of success or failure.  If that’s the case Brian Billick should still be winning Super Bowls as a HC somewhere instead of working as an announcer

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Oh right the 7th grade logic argument that people should always have the same level of success or failure.  If that’s the case Brian Billick should still be winning Super Bowls as a HC somewhere instead of working as an announcer

Is it seventh grade logic to correctly state that the only time Mike Tannenbaum was remotely proficient at his job was when he was working with Eric Mangini?

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