Trouble in the Trenches? Jets O-Line Questions Linger, but all is not Lost

[JetNation]

While the majority of Jets fans were thrilled to see Gang Green nab a potential franchise quarterback in Sam Darnold with the third overall pick in this year’s draft, there were those who were none too thrilled over the team’s failure to use any of their choices to stock the pipeline to the o-line.

With all of the concerns about the unit, we take a look at the offensive line from top to bottom and discuss whether or not the picture is as bleak as some say.

LT Kelvin Beachum: Beachum is a perfect example of the old saying, “you get what you pay for”.  He’s a middle of the road left tackle who makes middle of the road left tackle money as the 18th highest paid player at his position in the NFL at $8 million.  The Jets should look to make an upgrade at the position, but you can live with Beachum for another season or two.

LG James Carpenter: No player on the Jets offensive line is more important than Carpenter this season.  Prior to last year, he was viewed as one of the best players on the Jets’ 53-man roster.  He consistently won his battles up front and was a big part of the success the Jets had in the ground game.  Last season however, was a different story.  On a seemingly weekly basis, Carpenter was consistently beaten by the man across from him.  If he fails to return to 2015/2016 form, opponents will attack him up the middle consistently.  There are also valid concerns as to how Carpenter will play in what is expected to be a zone-heavy offense.

C Spencer Long: Let’s get this out of the way right away.  Simply parting ways with Wesley Johnson this off-season made the Jets offensive line better.  Johnson was arguably the single worst center in the NFL and was the biggest culprit for the pocket consistently collapsing.  Even if Long plays at a league average level, which he should, this is an enormous upgrade.  Long missed some time last season with a torn quadriceps but prior to that missed just four games over the previous two seasons.

RG Brian Winters: After cashing in with a big contract following the 2016 season, Jets fans were worried when Winters came out last season, and much like Carpenter got beaten regularly throughout the season.  As it turns out, we would later learn that Winters played the majority of the season with a torn abdominal muscle that he suffered in week 2.  This year is a big one for Winters as he’ll have to return to form or run the risk of being released after this season as the Jets wouldn’t incur any cap hit while saving $6.5 million according to overtheap.com.

Will Brandon Shell be a more consistent player in 2018? Only time will tell. 

RT Brandon Shell: Over the course of his first two pro seasons, Shell’s play has been inconsistent, but has shown flashes of brilliance.  There’s no denying that Shell has the ability to be an above average player, but the key for him will be doing the things he does well every week.  A better pass blocker than run blocker, Shell lacks the skill set to move to the left side, so this is where he’ll likely stay.  As is the case with Beachum on the left, you could do a lot worse than Shell on the right side.

Back-ups:

LT Ben Ijalana: After a few years as D’Brickashaw Ferguson’s understudy, Ijalana finally got some live reps over the past couple of seasons at both left and right tackle.  He’s been better on the right side and can be a liability on the left, but how many teams have a back up left tackle who can come in and play at a high level when you consider the fact that there aren’t even 32 starters who can do it?

RT Brent Qvale: A former undrafted free agent, Qvale is the opposite of the aforementioned Brandon Shell.  A better run blocker than pass blocker, Qvale is what he is.  A back-up level lineman who can start a game for you from time to time, but as you look around the league at how putrid many offensive lines are, retaining Qvale made sense for the Jets this season.

RG Dakota Dozier: Dozier has been moved around quite a bit in his time with the Jets as he seemed to bounce from guard to center and back again over his first few seasons.  At this point, he’s a high character, spot starter who has looked excellent in the run game at times.

C Jonotthan Harrison: Harrison came on in relief of Wesley Johnson last season and while he was an improvement, he didn’t play well enough to warrant consideration as a starter this season.  He should be able to win the backup job over Travis Swanson.

C Travis Swanson: Swanson was a disaster in Detroit last season and was so bad that the Lions opted to let him walk before signing Wesley Johnson.  Swanson may not even make the roster.  If he does, and plays well, the Jets O-line staff will have worked a miracle.

Rookie to watch: 

OG Dakoda Shepley: An undrafted lineman out of Canada, Shepley moves extremely well for a big man and plays with a mean streak.  However, going from a small program in Canada to the NFL, Shepley will be lined up across from players with a much different skill set than he’s accustomed to.  Even still, his progress is worth monitoring as he could fit nicely in the Jets zone scheme.

So are the concerns over the O-line among fans overblown?  The weakest link (Johnson) is gone, and a previously injured Winters is set to return at full strength.  As mentioned above, that leaves Carpenter as the biggest question mark, but the reality is that the Jets should be good enough up front to give their quarterbacks time to throw and their running backs room to run.  While it won’t be at a dominant level, it will be far better than what plenty of fans seem to think.

The post Trouble in the Trenches? Jets O-Line Questions Linger, but all is not Lost appeared first on NY Jets News.

Click here to read the full story...

[Long Island Leprechaun]

One has to wonder how much Wesley Johnson's failures impacted Carpenter. We all know that offensive lines are not individuals so much as a coordinated unit. When there's a weak link at the center, it impacts the entire line's performance.

[New York Mick]

And this is why I go mental when they draft and FA a ton of DL. 

[flgreen]

One of the major problems is that Carpenter is very unlikely to return to his form from 15-16.  At the time Carpenter said his play was better in NY then Seattle because the Jets ran a man blocking system which suited his skill set very well.  In Seattle they ran a zone, and he played poorly.

Jets switched to a zone system last year, and Carpenter's play went in the toilet.  Jets are still in a zone.

On the flip side Long has the opposite problem.  From reports I've read he plays much better in a zone.

[#27TheDominator]

I am pretty surprised that you are so high on Harrison.  I don't think they like him or Dozier that much.  Swanson had a bad year in Detroit, but he was a starter for years.  The change of scenery might help him.  I think they will expect at least one of the UDFA to stick.  Might be Shepley, Golson or somebody else.  I imagine at least one of Ijalana and Qvale will stick because none of the others translates to tackle.

The big problem with thinking they can't be worse than last year is that they were healthy.  Most of the other teams that had sh*tty lines had quality players missing games.  Yeah, Winters was dinged, but not bad enough that one these other squids was any better.  

[varjet]

I don’t understand how you play a guard with a torn abdominal muscle.  I would think playing guard would require a strong core.  

[Augustiniak]

also wondering about ben braden from michigan, he was an UDFA but he's the type of guy who could sneak onto the roster.  

[Jetsplayer21]

It’s very possible we Replace most the line next yr. Winter prob stays, Carpenter is likely cut. 

[LIJetsFan]

Bowels plays vets.  Winters is a vet.  Bowels played Winters.  Borderline criminal IMHO.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 hours ago, flgreen said:

One of the major problems is that Carpenter is very unlikely to return to his form from 15-16.  At the time Carpenter said his play was better in NY then Seattle because the Jets ran a man blocking system which suited his skill set very well.  In Seattle they ran a zone, and he played poorly.

Jets switched to a zone system last year, and Carpenter's play went in the toilet.  Jets are still in a zone.

On the flip side Long has the opposite problem.  From reports I've read he plays much better in a zone.

great points

[Thai Jet]

27 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

It’s very possible we Replace most the line next yr. Winter prob stays, Carpenter is likely cut. 

Agree   It's shaping up in 2019 for a decent o line group in the draft.

[section314]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

also wondering about ben braden from michigan, he was an UDFA but he's the type of guy who could sneak onto the roster.  

He is very versatile.....believe he played 3 positions over the years in Ann Arbor. They seem to like him.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

He is very versatile.....believe he played 3 positions over the years in Ann Arbor. They seem to like him.

did he play tackle or both G spots and C?  

[Freemanm]

6 hours ago, JetNation said:

While the majority of Jets fans were thrilled to see Gang Green nab a potential franchise quarterback in Sam Darnold with the third overall pick in this year’s draft, there were those who were none too thrilled over the team’s failure to use any of their choices to stock the pipeline to the o-line.

With all of the concerns about the unit, we take a look at the offensive line from top to bottom and discuss whether or not the picture is as bleak as some say.

LT Kelvin Beachum: Beachum is a perfect example of the old saying, “you get what you pay for”.  He’s a middle of the road left tackle who makes middle of the road left tackle money as the 18th highest paid player at his position in the NFL at $8 million.  The Jets should look to make an upgrade at the position, but you can live with Beachum for another season or two.

LG James Carpenter: No player on the Jets offensive line is more important than Carpenter this season.  Prior to last year, he was viewed as one of the best players on the Jets’ 53-man roster.  He consistently won his battles up front and was a big part of the success the Jets had in the ground game.  Last season however, was a different story.  On a seemingly weekly basis, Carpenter was consistently beaten by the man across from him.  If he fails to return to 2015/2016 form, opponents will attack him up the middle consistently.  There are also valid concerns as to how Carpenter will play in what is expected to be a zone-heavy offense.

C Spencer Long: Let’s get this out of the way right away.  Simply parting ways with Wesley Johnson this off-season made the Jets offensive line better.  Johnson was arguably the single worst center in the NFL and was the biggest culprit for the pocket consistently collapsing.  Even if Long plays at a league average level, which he should, this is an enormous upgrade.  Long missed some time last season with a torn quadriceps but prior to that missed just four games over the previous two seasons.

RG Brian Winters: After cashing in with a big contract following the 2016 season, Jets fans were worried when Winters came out last season, and much like Carpenter got beaten regularly throughout the season.  As it turns out, we would later learn that Winters played the majority of the season with a torn abdominal muscle that he suffered in week 2.  This year is a big one for Winters as he’ll have to return to form or run the risk of being released after this season as the Jets wouldn’t incur any cap hit while saving $6.5 million according to overtheap.com.

Will Brandon Shell be a more consistent player in 2018? Only time will tell. 

RT Brandon Shell: Over the course of his first two pro seasons, Shell’s play has been inconsistent, but has shown flashes of brilliance.  There’s no denying that Shell has the ability to be an above average player, but the key for him will be doing the things he does well every week.  A better pass blocker than run blocker, Shell lacks the skill set to move to the left side, so this is where he’ll likely stay.  As is the case with Beachum on the left, you could do a lot worse than Shell on the right side.

Back-ups:

LT Ben Ijalana: After a few years as D’Brickashaw Ferguson’s understudy, Ijalana finally got some live reps over the past couple of seasons at both left and right tackle.  He’s been better on the right side and can be a liability on the left, but how many teams have a back up left tackle who can come in and play at a high level when you consider the fact that there aren’t even 32 starters who can do it?

RT Brent Qvale: A former undrafted free agent, Qvale is the opposite of the aforementioned Brandon Shell.  A better run blocker than pass blocker, Qvale is what he is.  A back-up level lineman who can start a game for you from time to time, but as you look around the league at how putrid many offensive lines are, retaining Qvale made sense for the Jets this season.

RG Dakota Dozier: Dozier has been moved around quite a bit in his time with the Jets as he seemed to bounce from guard to center and back again over his first few seasons.  At this point, he’s a high character, spot starter who has looked excellent in the run game at times.

C Jonotthan Harrison: Harrison came on in relief of Wesley Johnson last season and while he was an improvement, he didn’t play well enough to warrant consideration as a starter this season.  He should be able to win the backup job over Travis Swanson.

C Travis Swanson: Swanson was a disaster in Detroit last season and was so bad that the Lions opted to let him walk before signing Wesley Johnson.  Swanson may not even make the roster.  If he does, and plays well, the Jets O-line staff will have worked a miracle.

Rookie to watch: 

OG Dakoda Shepley: An undrafted lineman out of Canada, Shepley moves extremely well for a big man and plays with a mean streak.  However, going from a small program in Canada to the NFL, Shepley will be lined up across from players with a much different skill set than he’s accustomed to.  Even still, his progress is worth monitoring as he could fit nicely in the Jets zone scheme.

So are the concerns over the O-line among fans overblown?  The weakest link (Johnson) is gone, and a previously injured Winters is set to return at full strength.  As mentioned above, that leaves Carpenter as the biggest question mark, but the reality is that the Jets should be good enough up front to give their quarterbacks time to throw and their running backs room to run.  While it won’t be at a dominant level, it will be far better than what plenty of fans seem to think.

The post Trouble in the Trenches? Jets O-Line Questions Linger, but all is not Lost appeared first on NY Jets News.

Click here to read the full story...

The Lions thought Travis Swanson was worse than Wesley Johnson? Can such a thing even be possible? That says a lot.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

did he play tackle or both G spots and C?  

Played both left and right tackle, as well as guard. Was a 3 year starter. I believe we had him working some at center last year. With the terrible play we had at that position last year, you and I probably would have gotten a look there too.? The guy is massive..like 6'6 330ish.

[#27TheDominator]

6 hours ago, JetNation said:

C Travis Swanson: Swanson was a disaster in Detroit last season and was so bad that the Lions opted to let him walk before signing Wesley Johnson.  Swanson may not even make the roster.  If he does, and plays well, the Jets O-line staff will have worked a miracle.

Click here to read the full story...

 

30 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

The Lions thought Travis Swanson was worse than Wesley Johnson? Can such a thing even be possible? That says a lot.

I don't really know where that came from.  They let Swanson walk and signed Johnson, but they signed Kenny Wiggins, a lousy G from the Chargers, so they can kick their 2016 3rd, Graham Glascow, slated to kick in from G and start at C. They drafted Ragnow, so will probably leave Glascow at G.  It isn't like they were ever intending to play Johnson who ourlads lists  as 3rd string G. FWIW, PFF rated Swanson low 43.4, but considerably better than Johnson 31.3.  Swanson has apparently had concussion issues. 

[Augustiniak]

41 minutes ago, section314 said:

Played both left and right tackle, as well as guard. Was a 3 year starter. I believe we had him working some at center last year. With the terrible play we had at that position last year, you and I probably would have gotten a look there too.? The guy is massive..like 6'6 330ish.

i remember the book on him being that he wasn't a great athlete so at first blush i'm not sure how well he fits in the new scheme, but even if he can be an adequate backup, that's really cheap depth.

[jetstream23]

Do we really have both a Dakota and a Dakoda on our offensive line?

[rangerous]

21 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

One has to wonder how much Wesley Johnson's failures impacted Carpenter. We all know that offensive lines are not individuals so much as a coordinated unit. When there's a weak link at the center, it impacts the entire line's performance.

yep.  that door swings both ways too. at this point the oline is what it is. losing winters last season didn't help. they have improved and at least 4 of the 5 guys have played together for a season.  this should help. and so should an improved passing and running attack.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

This is exactly why Darnold should NOT see the field this season behind such poor excuse of an oline.  Next year, free agency and draft should be all about offensive line.

[Jetster]

We're supposed to have 100 million again in free agency. Let's hope the Cowboys & Titans are cap strapped & steal Lewan & Martin. 

Hows that for an upgrade? Lewan for Beachum, Zack Martin for Left Guard, if Long falters, take the best Center coming out in the 2019 draft. Winters & Shell (I think Shell has improved every year), should be ok and Sam can ride with Lewan-Martin- Long or best Center in draft- Winters- Shell. That's enough beef to keep Sam, a player who can also create enough time to make plays. 

Having Darnold with a 5th year option allows us to use free agency in 2019 to sign a couple of STUD veteran olineman to this team. Look what that did for the 2009/2010 team. Eagles don't win a Super Bowl without that dominant Oline. 

[T0mShane]

My unpopular opinion is that Beachum-Carpenter-Long-Winters-Shell isn’t great but it’s a better group than half the teams in the league currently employ. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

My unpopular opinion is that Beachum-Carpenter-Long-Winters-Shell isn’t great but it’s a better group than half the teams in the league currently employ. 

Standard. Jetsy. Pretend everything was Wesley Johnson until the games start and you're forced to acknowledge that the other four guys suck too. Is Long actually even any good?

[JiFtheOracle]

20 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Standard. Jetsy. Pretend everything was Wesley Johnson until the games start and you're forced to acknowledge that the other four guys suck too. Is Long actually even any good?

This and no.

[peebag]

23 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

It’s very possible we Replace most the line next yr. Winter prob stays, Carpenter is likely cut. 

Winters probably needs to go as well.

[derp]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

My unpopular opinion is that Beachum-Carpenter-Long-Winters-Shell isn’t great but it’s a better group than half the teams in the league currently employ. 

Above median but below average.

[Jetsplayer21]

24 minutes ago, peebag said:

Winters probably needs to go as well.

I see now we can cut him next yr. thought we were tied to him another yr. will see how he does this yr. Mac isn’t going to be able to replace 5 guys in 1 offseason. You know Bowles would never allow him to use a 1st round pick on a OL, and we don’t have a 2nd. Olineman are getting expensive. Most teams realize how valuable they are now.

[Joe the Breadman]

If there was ever a year for a trade down it would be next year. This year was all about quarterbacks. Next year the draft is all about the trenches and the Clemson defense.  

The quality of the offensive tackles available next draft should be superior to this last group. I hope Mac can select a quality tackle AND a quality interior lineman...Mac should go on a spree and draft nothing but offense. 

It's all about surrounding Sam Darnold with what he needs to get it done. 

 

[Larz]

Off season isn't over 

This line was awful up the middle last year, just tragic 

Jets have to be looking for guard help, maybe a trade in August? 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Maybe they just need to get punched in the mouth.

[Jetsplayer21]

23 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Maybe they just need to get punched in the mouth.

It’s a good thing Sam has a face mask to protect him, otherwise he would be getting hit in the mouth constantly by the back jet lineman’s helmet as they all get pushed back like rag dolls lol.

[TuscanyTile2]

On 5/11/2018 at 3:50 PM, Joe the Breadman said:

If there was ever a year for a trade down it would be next year. This year was all about quarterbacks. Next year the draft is all about the trenches and the Clemson defense.  

The quality of the offensive tackles available next draft should be superior to this last group. I hope Mac can select a quality tackle AND a quality interior lineman...Mac should go on a spree and draft nothing but offense. 

It's all about surrounding Sam Darnold with what he needs to get it done. 

 

That's why we might be best off having another bad year this year.  Get a high draft pick again but trade down and recoup the 2nd rounder we lost.  Though ideally Bridgewater will play well enough to get us a 2nd rounder.  The thing that's really annoying is that even if we do rebuild the OL next year, we still only have mediocre weapons for Darnold.  One of these years we have to make enough trades to get extra draft picks.  Then trade some of the extra draft picks for future draft picks.  In other words pretty much what the Bills had going into this draft (and what the Patriots have done several times).  We're just at the start of the Darnold era.  He's only 20 years old so we have time to play this situation the right way.  If this organization plays things right the next couple of years, we might be a perennial contender.  If not, we may end up ruining our chances the same way the Colts did with Andrew Luck.  

[Jetsplayer21]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's why we might be best off having another bad year this year.  Get a high draft pick again but trade down and recoup the 2nd rounder we lost.  Though ideally Bridgewater will play well enough to get us a 2nd rounder.  The thing that's really annoying is that even if we do rebuild the OL next year, we still only have mediocre weapons for Darnold.  One of these years we have to make enough trades to get extra draft picks.  Then trade some of the extra draft picks for future draft picks.  In other words pretty much what the Bills had going into this draft (and what the Patriots have done several times).  We're just at the start of the Darnold era.  He's only 20 years old so we have time to play this situation the right way.  If this organization plays things right the next couple of years, we might be a perennial contender.  If not, we may end up ruining our chances the same way the Colts did with Andrew Luck.  

Rome wasn’t built in 1 day lol. I know you were not saying it this way. But I do believe Mac and Bowles look at the offense like most of us look at our messy garage. “ geez where do I start “ so you dont even touch it, other then getting to the essential ( qb ) lol. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Rome wasn’t built in 1 day lol. I know you were not saying it this way. But I do believe Mac and Bowles look at the offense like most of us look at our messy garage. “ geez where do I start “ so you dont even touch it, other then getting to the essential ( qb ) lol. 

Agreed but Macc has already had 4 seasons to improve the team.  But I've never been more optimistic about this franchise than the day we drafted Darnold.  It all changes once you have the FQB.

[Jetsplayer21]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed but Macc has already had 4 seasons to improve the team.  But I've never been more optimistic about this franchise than the day we drafted Darnold.  It all changes once you have the FQB.

Mac has said numerous times he often is a yes Man for what his HC wants. I’m so shocked a ex DC wants 90% of team resources put into the D??