Safety Vacarro might meet with Jets.

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, RSJ said:

 

If you like FS’s that are afraid of contact.


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Rhodes was excellent in coverage.  Adams is nowhere near as good in coverage granted he was a rookie but a safety taken 6th overall shouldn’t have Anthony Fasano and David Njoku scoring touchdowns on him and never get a single pick

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, RSJ said:

 

The Jets have literally have not had a decent FS since Eric McMillan. Maye might be the first one to break a very long streak.

 

 

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I still remember when Bradway replaced Victor Green with Sam Garnes and Green pick six’d Vinny as a Patriot the next season

 

J-E-T-S

 

  

[Larz]

8 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The Safety market completely fell off a cliff this year in Free Agency.  There is too much supply and not enough demand, yet the Jets went to that well twice in the Draft last year.  I'm still scratching my head over it.  Don't get me wrong, I like both Adams and Maye but there was no reason to double dip at S in my opinion.  We could have signed a good FA to pair with Adams, and we'd have either a starting RB like Dalvin Cook or Alvin Kamara, or a young long-term starting Center like Ethan Pocic or Pat Elflein (both made the PFWA All Rookie Team).  Even more interestingly, we could have taken Ju Ju Smith-Schuster instead in Round 2 and he'd now be reunited with his college QB, Sam Darnold.

I read an article about it and safeties have to be versatile to get big dollars. 

Adams played all over the place last year, edge rusher, slot corner, outside corner, he's exactly the type of safety NFL teams are looking for. 

Picking him in the first place was odd, it's more of a luxury for a team that already had a foundation, I think the Jets were looking for a guy to lead the defense 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Larz said:

I read an article about it and safeties have to be versatile to get big dollars. 

Tyrann Matthieu got one year for seven million and he’s roughly a thousand times better in coverage than Adams. 

[KRL]

Some background on what happened with Vaccaro in NO:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15813/kenny-vaccaro

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/71117/saints-kenny-vaccaro-era-ends-with-unrealized-potential

METAIRIE, La. -- A radio interviewer asked me Thursday if it would be fair to describe safety Kenny Vaccaro as a “serviceable” player during his five seasons with the New Orleans Saints. But I said that term doesn’t fit.

I understand the reason for the question. Vaccaro’s time in New Orleans will unfortunately be remembered for his unrealized potential, particularly if he finally goes on to make his first Pro Bowl or more now that he is destined to leave in free agency.

But Vaccaro was never just “serviceable” or “solid” or "ordinary."

Sure, the Saints’ first-round draft pick in 2013 could be frustrating and inconsistent. But he also flashed great potential at times.

And he always had a dynamic presence, starting with that first season, when he finished third in the NFL’s Defensive Rookie of the Year voting while former defensive coordinator Rob Ryan used him as a versatile chess piece all over the field.

There were other times, too, when Vaccaro appeared to be on the verge of a career breakthrough (including last season, before he had season-ending groin surgery in December; and including 2016, which ended with him serving a four-game suspension for a positive Adderall test).

That breakthrough won’t be coming in New Orleans, though.

A source confirmed that Vaccaro won’t be back with the Saints when he hits free agency in two weeks. And Vaccaro told ESPN he has basically known that would be the case dating back to last year, since the team has never shown a desire to re-sign him.

The Saints also have drafted two second-round safeties over the past two years: Vonn Bell and Marcus Williams.

“I'm looking forward to free agency," Vaccaro said. "I love the Saints, my teammates and coaches, but it's a business and I have sacrificed too much to not go get paid and be able to keep providing for my family. That's just the way it is sometimes."

It’s hard to pinpoint exactly why things never panned out for Vaccaro.

One of his greatest assets -- his versatility -- might have been something of a curse, since his role often changed. The 6-foot, 214-pounder spent much of his rookie season as a nickelback covering receivers out of the slot, which is what he primarily did in college. It’s something he always has done well and should continue to do at times with his next team.

But Vaccaro also played a lot of strong safety, some free safety and a pseudo-linebacker role over the years. He’s a hard hitter, effective blitzer and solid in run defense or coverage versus tight ends. But he also struggled with missed assignments on occasion, particularly in deep coverage. He was temporarily demoted twice during his career (though neither demotion lasted long).

The Saints ultimately decided Vaccaro was best used closer to the line of scrimmage, which is what his next employer should probably do, too.

Injuries also interrupted Vaccaro’s growth at times, including a broken ankle at the end of his rookie season and a quadriceps injury during his second year.

Still, Vaccaro’s combination of potential, versatility and experience should land him a healthy contract on the open market. He’s still just 27, with 67 career starts, 385 tackles, eight interceptions, 7.5 sacks and four forced fumbles under his belt.

So could this become another situation like when the Saints let safety Malcolm Jenkins go in free agency, and he went on to become a perennial Pro Bowler and Super Bowl champion in Philadelphia?

Perhaps. There is a good chance Vaccaro will find a better fit elsewhere and continue to show growth and maturity in his next spot.

But that doesn’t mean the Saints are wrong to let him go, considering what it would cost to keep him and the fact that he's yet to realize that lofty potential on a consistent basis.

The Saints likely will add a cheaper veteran to the mix of Bell and Williams, since they like to use three safeties in so many of their nickel and dime packages. They could re-sign veteran Rafael Bush. They also met with former Carolina Panthersveteran Kurt Coleman at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis on Thursday, according to NOLA.com.

Or they could invest more heavily in a third cornerback and switch to more of a traditional nickel package going forward.

A change of scenery might work out fine for everyone involved. But it’s still hard not to consider it a shame that Vaccaro isn’t something like a two-time Pro Bowler about to start into his second contract in New Orleans.

[The Crusher]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Tyrann Matthieu got one year for seven million and he’s roughly a thousand times better in coverage than Adams. 

Not a fair comparison Tom, they  don’t really play the same position. Mathews is a playmaker and Adams is a noise maker. Big difference Bucko.

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, KRL said:

But Vaccaro also played a lot of strong safety, some free safety and a pseudo-linebacker role over the years. He’s a hard hitter, effective blitzer and solid in run defense or coverage versus tight ends. But he also struggled with missed assignments on occasion, particularly in deep coverage.

hmm

[RSJ]

Rhodes was excellent in coverage.  Adams is nowhere near as good in coverage granted he was a rookie but a safety taken 6th overall shouldn’t have Anthony Fasano and David Njoku scoring touchdowns on him and never get a single pick

The comparison is Rhodes to Maye. Those two play the same position. Adams is a SS. Rhodes was below average in coverage. He got burnt a lot when he was made to play center field and he was horrible at tackling. He never came up and guarded anyone one on one. Partially because he was a FS and covered the deep part of the field.


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[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, Dcat said:

vacarro has under performed since he was drafted.  Meh.

That's an understatement.  PFF graded him out as the worst safety in the entire NFL last year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/kenny-vaccaro/7796 

2017 PFF Grades

Overall

35.4

#120 CB

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

The comparison is Rhodes to Maye. Those two play the same position. Adams is a SS. Rhodes was below average in coverage. He got burnt a lot when he was made to play center field and he was horrible at tackling. He never came up and guarded anyone one on one. Partially because he was a FS and covered the deep part of the field.


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An SS should never be taken in the first round let alone 6th overall

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Uh, you’re only allowed to do this exercise with Idzik’s drafts, bud. It’s a rule around here, from what I understand. 

Idzik was Terry Bradway.  Good in a smaller role.  Lousy as a GM. 

Pretty sure people have been ripping Macc's drafts just as hard as Idzik's.  You just have a soft spot for him that is borderline disgusting.  Let it go.

[Jetsplayer21]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The Safety market completely fell off a cliff this year in Free Agency.  There is too much supply and not enough demand, yet the Jets went to that well twice in the Draft last year.  I'm still scratching my head over it.  Don't get me wrong, I like both Adams and Maye but there was no reason to double dip at S in my opinion.  We could have signed a good FA to pair with Adams, and we'd have either a starting RB like Dalvin Cook or Alvin Kamara, or a young long-term starting Center like Ethan Pocic or Pat Elflein (both made the PFWA All Rookie Team).  Even more interestingly, we could have taken Ju Ju Smith-Schuster instead in Round 2 and he'd now be reunited with his college QB, Sam Darnold.

When you live and die by BPA you will often pick the less valued positions. Why Mac so offen drafts Dlineman Who cannot pass rush.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Idzik was Terry Bradway.  Good in a smaller role.  Lousy as a GM. 

Pretty sure people have been ripping Macc's drafts just as hard as Idzik's.  You just have a soft spot for him that is borderline disgusting.  Let it go.

80 letting a bomb go. A truth bomb at that.

 

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Idzik was Terry Bradway.  Good in a smaller role.  Lousy as a GM. 

Pretty sure people have been ripping Macc's drafts just as hard as Idzik's.  You just have a soft spot for him that is borderline disgusting.  Let it go.

Mac’s drafts have been similarly bad as Idzik’s hence the 10-22 record last 2 seasons

But we did get Darnold this year and hopefully Shepherd and Herndon pan out

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I still remember when Bradway replaced Victor Green with Sam Garnes and Green pick six’d Vinny as a Patriot the next season

 

J-E-T-S

 

  

Bellichick invented the Big Nickel just to get Green on the field more often. Still one of the best images of the Jets embracing the fruits of their own ineptitude...

[T0mShane]

31 minutes ago, KRL said:

Vaccaro also played a lot of strong safety, some free safety and a pseudo-linebacker role over the years. He’s a hard hitter, effective blitzer and solid in run defense or coverage versus tight ends. But he also struggled with missed assignments on occasion, particularly in deep coverage. He was temporarily demoted twice during his career (though neither demotion lasted long).

The Saints ultimately decided Vaccaro was best used closer to the line of scrimmage, which is what his next employer should probably do, too.

Hmm

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Idzik was Terry Bradway.  

 

[T0mShane]

30 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Not a fair comparison Tom, they  don’t really play the same position. Mathews is a playmaker and Adams is a noise maker. Big difference Bucko.

It’s better if you think of Adams as a very small linebacker and Darron Lee as a developmental safety.

[Sarge4Tide]

Somewhat off topic, but back in the 70s, i had a super celebrity crush on actress Brenda Vaccarro 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s better if you think of Adams as a very small linebacker and Darron Lee as a developmental safety.

If we sign Vaccaro we can run a quarters defense the entire game.  Bowles is reinventing football

[Sperm Edwards]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's an understatement.  PFF graded him out as the worst safety in the entire NFL last year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/kenny-vaccaro/7796 

2017 PFF Grades

Overall

35.4

#120 CB

If you’re placing value in PFF grades, they also graded Trumaine Johnson the #68 CB last year.

Both Johnson and Vaccaro made their 9 ‘FAs to avoid’ list:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-free-agents-to-avoid 

TRUMAINE JOHNSON

Johnson has all the traits of an elite corner, and the fact that he was franchised twice already might suggest he is one, but nothing in our grading agrees with that evaluation. In fact, it can be argued that Johnson was the weak link in the Rams’ secondary at times last year. He gave up at least 79 yards in four separate games and his 759 yards allowed were fifth-most among all corners. He’s a solid starter, but is not worth near what he got paid the past two seasons.

KENNY VACCARO

Vaccaro is another player who has never been right since suffering a serious knee injury. The former first-rounder was a serious rookie of the year candidate before breaking his ankle in Week 15. His struggles came to a head this past season, where he allowed a career high 492 receiving yards after being moved more into the slot. Vaccaro once again ended his season on injured reserve, this time with a torn groin.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If you’re placing value in PFF grades, they also graded Trumaine Johnson the #68 CB last year.

Both Johnson and Vaccaro made their ‘FAs to avoid’ list:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-free-agents-to-avoid 

TRUMAINE JOHNSON

Johnson has all the traits of an elite corner, and the fact that he was franchised twice already might suggest he is one, but nothing in our grading agrees with that evaluation. In fact, it can be argued that Johnson was the weak link in the Rams’ secondary at times last year. He gave up at least 79 yards in four separate games and his 759 yards allowed were fifth-most among all corners. He’s a solid starter, but is not worth near what he got paid the past two seasons.

KENNY VACCARO

Vaccaro is another player who has never been right since suffering a serious knee injury. The former first-rounder was a serious rookie of the year candidate before breaking his ankle in Week 15. His struggles came to a head this past season, where he allowed a career high 492 receiving yards after being moved more into the slot. Vaccaro once again ended his season on injured reserve, this time with a torn groin.

You’re also missing that 80–that insolent DOLT—said PFF had Vaccaro rated as the worst safety, but the stat he posted had Vaccaro rated the worst CB

Overall

35.4

#120 CB

[#27TheDominator]

I was thinking they might want to use him at LB, but he is a bit on the light side.  

Vaccaro has started to log snaps at free safety, which might be the last item left on his checklist. If you look at his list of responsibilities from last season, there were times when he played strong safety, nickel cornerback, linebacker and as a pressure player.

The Saints drafted Marcus Wllliams last year at #42 and he outplayed Adams and Mayes, I guess that made Vaccaro expendable. 

1 hour ago, Larz said:

I read an article about it and safeties have to be versatile to get big dollars. 

Adams played all over the place last year, edge rusher, slot corner, outside corner, he's exactly the type of safety NFL teams are looking for. 

Picking him in the first place was odd, it's more of a luxury for a team that already had a foundation, I think the Jets were looking for a guy to lead the defense 

See above.  Vaccaro was versatile.  He has sacks, passes defensed, INTs.  He's still not getting big money. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You’re also missing that 80–that insolent DOLT—said PFF had Vaccaro rated as the worst safety, but the stat he posted had Vaccaro rated the worst CB

 

 

Lol you’re sore about that Idzik comment, right?

I thought - and still think - he generally had a good plan, but I also accept he was incapable of successfully executing that plan. I believe he has good use in an NFL front office in an assistant/consultant role, but the results of his being the man to make the final call in all player acquisition decisions proved that as GM he was farting higher than his own ass.

I think that’s the case with very many (possibly most) GM hires, where the difference ends up being who guessed lucky and/or was in the right place at the right time, vs. who was not. One looks far better than the other to the subjective eye, but objectively neither GM is an actual asset to the team (so much as the asset being the presence or absence of Lady Luck herself). 

He inherited a horrible situation with no cap room, and high picks in a weak draft that was just awful up top (and frankly, not so great throughout). But his job the following year only looks less tragic when one comparatively uses the name Hackenberg (among others) in its defense. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

14 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

We could have had the Honey badger, but Todd said he did not know how to use him? So instead let's sign a much less versatile Box safety..

Said someone that doesn't understand how the cap works.

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol you’re sore about that Idzik comment, right?

I thought - and still think - he generally had a good plan, but I also accept he was incapable of successfully executing that plan. I believe he has good use in an NFL front office in an assistant/consultant role, but the results of his being the man to make the final call in all player acquisition decisions proved that as GM he was farting higher than his own ass.

I think that’s the case with very many (possibly most) GM hires, where the difference ends up being who guessed lucky and/or was in the right place at the right time, vs. who was not. One looks far better than the other to the subjective eye, but objectively neither GM is an actual asset to the team (so much as the asset being the presence or absence of Lady Luck herself). 

He inherited a horrible situation with no cap room, and high picks in a weak draft that was just awful up top (and frankly, not so great throughout). But his job the following year only looks less tragic when one comparatively uses the name Hackenberg (among others) in its defense. 

Thank you for this fair-minded critique. I agree with it whole-heartedly. I compare Idzik taking the Jets job to that time George Clooney agreed to star in Batman and Robin when it was clear that the Batman franchise was, and remains, irredeemable. 

[BurnleyJet]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Said someone that doesn't understand how the cap works.

Meow, Tyrann Mathieu, signed a one year 7 mill deal with Houston. I would have cut Buster Skrine with his 7.25mill contact, and played Mathieu at slot corner and Safety. Then spend the extra 250,000 on Cap class's.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Thank you for this fair-minded critique. I agree with it whole-heartedly. I compare Idzik taking the Jets job to that time George Clooney agreed to star in Batman and Robin when it was clear that the Batman franchise was, and remains, irredeemable. 

Clooney’s eyes looked weird & creepy in that getup anyway. 

[slats]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Uh, you’re only allowed to do this exercise with Idzik’s drafts, bud. It’s a rule around here, from what I understand.

There's no rule. It's just that it's easier to do with Idzik's drafts, and people are generally lazy. 

[Jetmech]

He would be good insurance and the Jets do play 3 safety stuff.

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[Lith]

42 minutes ago, Jetmech said:

He would be good insurance and the Jets do play 3 safety stuff.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

Agreed.  He is not likely to be expensive this late in the offseason.  He does not have to be better than Adams or Maye, but if he is better than Miles, Brooks or Middleton, he is an upgrade.  No harm in bringing him in for a visit and no reason that I can see for all the outrage just because he is another Safety.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Agreed.  He is not likely to be expensive this late in the offseason.  He does not have to be better than Adams or Maye, but if he is better than Miles, Brooks or Middleton, he is an upgrade.  No harm in bringing him in for a visit and no reason that I can see for all the outrage just because he is another Safety.

Why couldn't Macc use the 3-4 million they will have to spend on Vaccarro to get an elite LT and franchise QB? 

The reality is that Vaccaro is a talented player that has dissapointed probably due to injuries. But he will come very cheap and is still young enough to surprise. Kind of reminds me of our Claiborne signing from last year. 

Macc has shown that he likes taking risks on talented players with injury issues if they come at the right price. Guys like Vaccaro, Bridgewater, Garcia, Claiborne all fill that mold. 

[sec101row23]

This is why I hated the Maye draft pick.  Especially with Dalvin Cook sitting there.  There are so many safeties that could be had in FA to pass on a talent like Cook for a guy like Maye seemed so irresponsible.  

[varjet]

15 hours ago, Beerfish said:

A quality play making fs is way more valuable than a box safety.  We draft guys like dts and safeties and ilbs all who come free at fa time. 

A FS is on the same salary scale for 5th year option purposes as a SS.  

Let's see if Jamal Adams gets his 5th year option exercised.  That would seem to me to be a good metric of a good 1st round draft pick that should enforce BPA-is it worth exercising their 5th year option?  if not, it was not a good pick.  

Williams-expensive but ok.  

Let's see about Lee and Adams.  If Maye is good, he needs to be extended after year 3.  

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Why couldn't Macc use the 3-4 million they will have to spend on Vaccarro to get an elite LT and franchise QB? 

The reality is that Vaccaro is a talented player that has dissapointed probably due to injuries. But he will come very cheap and is still young enough to surprise. Kind of reminds me of our Claiborne signing from last year. 

Macc has shown that he likes taking risks on talented players with injury issues if they come at the right price. Guys like Vaccaro, Bridgewater, Garcia, Claiborne all fill that mold. 

This was my rationale in going a little overboard in an offer to 26 year-old Norwell, with a sure thing QB pick at #3 or #6 coming up. Sure it sets a bad precedent, but on a team with some $60m (or whatever it is) in cap room, if Norwell was worth $13m then he was worth $16m. This is the luxury you've hard-earned by playing it close to the vest the prior year. Not to mention the team would save an immediate $5m by cutting Carpenter 5 minutes later. Then if we did draft a worthwhile guard in April (lol) Winters and his $7m could be cut or traded a year later. 

But hey, now we can spend whatever on Vaccaro ($3-4m is your guess here), $3m on Kevin Pierre-Louis, or $10m on Josh McCown, make a $16m one-year offer to Suh, etc.