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Rotoworld: NFL's Best GM's 2018


MDL_JET

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2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

I mean if you want to give him credit for recruiting Peyton Manning, sure. After Peyton was there, everyone else followed. 

Life after Peyton is looking a little rough for Elway, not as easy when you don't have a HOF QB to support you.

Whatever.   he got Peyton there.   And when Peyton looked done, he built a stellar defense.   Peyton was not the reason they won that Super Bowl, he had a horrible season and looked like crap in the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

All I’m going to say is...Maccagnan executed this offseason to just about perfection, meanwhile Tanny gave away Jarvis Landry for peanuts and Beane sat on his hands in QB FA until he was forced to sign AJ McCarron.

Been telling people here his reputation around the league is not good. That's why agents advised their players to go elsewhere (unless this was their best offer by a long shot), and why he's seen as a bottom-5 incumbent GM. They had him at #27 out of 28 returning GMs last year, so 22 is improvement. It's probably about right, only because other teams also employ some terrible GMs like we do.

  • 4 FAs turned him down after we were the highest bidder. I've never even heard of that happening twice, let alone four times, in just 1 offseason.
  • He wanted not 1 but 2 different FA WRs at ~$15m/year, both of whom have done nothing to earn that amount since their past injuries.
  • He wanted Cousins at $30m for the next 4-5 years (allegedly was willing to go to a fully guaranteed deal 5 years out) instead of drafting a young FQB at ~$7m. I'd bet my house he would have then stayed pat at #6 and drafted a freaking guard instead of moving up or down or taking a more un-replaceable position.
  • Spurned by the horrible attitudes of Richardson and Mo, he then offered Suh $16m this year.
  • On the other hand he shrunk back into his shell when it came time to up the ante for a 26 year-old all pro guard, to make an offer he couldn't refuse, while we were sitting on nearly $100m in cap space, to protect a FQB about to be added.
  • He signed Bridgewater, whom you wanted "no part of" up until you found out Maccagnan liked (and signed) him. He's paying McCown twice what you wanted to grudgingly sign him to (instead of Bridgewater).
  • You claimed you wanted us to draft Rosen over Darnold (until we drafted Darnold, presumably). 
  • All the extra scouting on this year's QB class - and likely the QB-or-bust attitude in general - was done at the behest of Chris Johnson, not Maccagnan, after we took freaking safeties with both our #6 and #39 picks the year before (and turning down Wentz/Goff the year before, so we could draft a nutcase LB/S hybrid Darron Lee, 3rd-4th string Christian Hackenberg, and re-sign Ryan Fitzpatrick for $12m).

I get (and agree) with the notion of it being better to be lucky than good, but Maccagnan is putting on a clinic in proving this idea (starting with the luck of being employed by such undemanding ownership).

**** Beane, but his QB problem in comparison, ultimately, was that his team was better than Maccagnan's last year (so they picked lower) and that he inherited a lot of bad contracts.  McCarron is 27 years old, is signed for $5m/year x 2 years, and prior to FA starting he was expected to get low-end starter money in the $12-16m/year range (and IIRC in Feb some here were pushing for us to sign him in that range); if someone had made him a larger offer early-on that wouldn't make AJ any better or worse. Beane signed AJ for half what we're paying Josh McCown; some would - and did - say he was rewarded for exhibiting this patience. Flip those 2 pickups around the other way, with Buffalo paying McCown $10m followed by the Jets paying AJ $5m, and there's little doubt you'd mock Beane for such a doltish move while praising Macc for his superior GMing and patience. Beane drafted the biggest hit-or-miss QB in the draft. Hopefully he misses like most of us think he will, but we're not there yet. 

**** Tannenbaum. No further commentary required.

 

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13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It follows the ne path of getting a player then dumping him the next year.  Isn't the object of the game to get good players and keep them?

The jets draft and then dump players like mo wilk and richardson and get killed for losing value the pats do it all the time and get praised for it.

Not at all.  The object of the game is to put together a team that can compete each and every week and compete for a super bowl every year.  He does that.

The Jets drafted Wilkerson and got great value for that pick.  Then they paid him a ton of money and let him walk.  Where is the value?

I don't think anybody kills them for the handling of Richardson, but they could have had that 2nd, or more, in 2015, 2016, or 2017.  Instead, he spent time suspended, and/or playing out of position, while the asset lost value.

How did the Pats lose value with Cooks?  They got a year of use, 1,000+ yards and traded him for more than they gave up.  People in this thread are complaining that they let Jimmy G go?  They got a 2nd, and certainly could not afford to give him $145M. 

They got nothing out of Rivers?  Big deal, he was a 3rd.  They got 5 sacks out of Dietrich Wise Jr.   Easley (Curtis Warriors!) was the 29th pick - they took a swing and missed.  He still has more career interceptions than Jamal Adams and more sacks than Darron Lee.  Belichick is not a great drafter, but he has great teams.  As a result he takes more chances on guys like Easley and smaller school guys like Rivers and Garcia. Rookies have to stand out to have a chance on that team.  He also has UDFA guys like Malcolm Butler.  How many guys did the Jets lose that are signing $61M contracts? 

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1 hour ago, David Harris said:

A GM's number 1 job is to find a franchise QB

 

53 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Isn't the object of the game to get good players and keep them?

The object of the game is to win a championship, which, not coincidentally, is also a GM’s number one job. 

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3 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Roseman should be #1. He did a great job putting the Eagles together doing some moves that looked like head-scratchers at the time that turned out to be genius. Belicick owns the Garapolo trade whether he privately approved it or not. It was a completely stupid move for that organization. And what on earth have Marvin Lewis, Reggie McKenzie, or Brandon Beane accomplished? All those teams regressed, and the Bills were effectively turned into a division II college team over the past year.

totally agree. another point is just about all of the top ten gm's have a good qb.

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3 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Belichick is definitely a tough one to really evaluate, as I feel like you could be all over the place with that.  Obviously, as much as we hate the Pats and you know, they cheat, you can't really ignore their endlessly ongoing success year after year.  With that said, their drafts have been absolutely awful for a very, very long time.  On the flip side, they definitely have quite the penchant for getting a very good ROI on their mid-to-low level FA signings.  My initial reaction was that it's a bit ridiculous to give the #1 spot to such a horrible drafter, but in the end they've still been successful.  Of course, if the team completely falls apart once Brady is gone, that would be a different story.

I also definitely agree with others that Elway's ranking is rather laughable.

I think they exceptional coaching/cheating may be responsible for Lil' Bill being seen as an excellent GM. He has a system that these FA signing fit seamlessly into for the most part. His coaching, management of football operations, and coaching development are the things he should be lauded over.

His drafts suck.... but that is only 40% of being a GM..... MacDaddy has been less than average on ALL fronts!!!

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4 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Roseman should be #1. He did a great job putting the Eagles together doing some moves that looked like head-scratchers at the time that turned out to be genius. Belicick owns the Garapolo trade whether he privately approved it or not. It was a completely stupid move for that organization. And what on earth have Marvin Lewis, Reggie McKenzie, or Brandon Beane accomplished? All those teams regressed, and the Bills were effectively turned into a division II college team over the past year.

I think Roseman may still be suffering from Chip Kelly.  He kind of helped bring Kelly on and then initially lost the power struggle.  He seems to be doing great since they unloaded Kelly and he took over as chief decision maker after years letting Reid and Kelly make final decisions.

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39 minutes ago, kelly said:

"..26. Mike Tannenbaum, Dolphins

-The rest are new hires-

Thoughts???  "...

 

tanny or " the rest " ?..  i'll go with " the rest "   ?

My thought is that the Dolphins are going to hire Heimerdinger.  

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6 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/79956/57/nfls-best-gms-2018?pg=2

It's a pain in the ass to copy and paste the entire thing but here's how they rank them...

1. Bill Belichick, Patriots

2. Kevin Colbert, Steelers

3. Howie Roseman, Eagles

4. Thomas Dimitroff, Falcons

5. Ozzie Newsome, Ravens

6. Rick Spielman, Vikings

7. John Schneider, Seahawks

8. Steve Keim, Cardinals 

9. John Elway, Broncos

10. Mickey Loomis, Saints

11. Dave Caldwell/Tom Coughlin, Jaguars

12. Les Snead, Rams

13. Jerry Jones/Stephen Jones, Cowboys

14. Tom Telesco, Chargers

15. Marvin Lewis/Duke Tobin/Mike Brown, Bengals

16. Jon Robinson, Titans

17. Reggie McKenzie, Raiders

18. John Lynch, 49ers

19. Bob Quinn, Lions

20. Chris Ballard, Colts

21. Brandon Beane, Bills

22. Mike Maccagnan, Jets

23. Ryan Pace, Bears

24. Jason Licht, Bucs

25. Bruce Allen/Doug Williams, Redskins

26. Mike Tannenbaum, Dolphins

-The rest are new hires-

Thoughts???

I think John Elway is ranked way too high. I think Loomis should be higher just based off his draft of last year alone. And love that everyone agrees that Tannenbaum is the absolute worst. Let's hope he stays for a while. 

Thanks for posting . Agree I think Elway is way too high. Both Macc, Loomis  and Beane should be higher. Ozzie (#5) is also rated too high. His last few drafts have been nothing to write home about.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’d like to see how good of a GM Belichick would be if Brady was getting paid as a top-3 QB on the books instead of through Goodell-approved money laundering schemes.

Great point. Let's see how he does with Brady getting a legit value contract. Take those millions off his cap space and see how he does.

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6 hours ago, Pcola said:

I think Macc is ranked way too low.  Sure the 5 win seasons are hurting him but the work he did to turn a roster void of any talent into a contender in 2015 and potentially in 2018, he will move up.  By the end of 2019, he could be top 5 if the Jets are a playoff team because of Darnold and his free agent crop from this year and next.

Macc has been a bottom 3 GM in the NFL his first 3 years here.  He did get really lucky getting Darnold tho and it can change everything

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22. Mike Maccagnan, Jets

 

5-11 is a matter of perspective. In 2016, it was calamitous for the Jets, an epic fail of a season after the previous year’s narrow playoff miss. In 2017, it was a pleasant surprise, proof things could turn around faster than expected in Florham Park. At the center of it all is Mike Maccagnan, who has managed to see it all in just three years on the job. After reloading in 2015, doubling down in 2016 and rebuilding in 2017, Maccagnan now has something he previously lacked: A potential franchise player. Thanks to the Jets’ stadium mates in the Giants, Sam Darnold fell into Maccagnan’s lap at No. 3 overall. Like all quarterback prospects, Darnold divides opinion, but his upside is immense at only 21 years of age (in June). He’s a building block the Jets have lacked since 2009, the last time they traded up for a signal caller. Maccagnan needs Darnold to be better than Mark Sanchez, but his presence allows Maccagnan to better focus on the Big Picture now that he’s finally answered the Big Question of quarterback.    

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6 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

We'll see how good Bill* B* is when Brady* is gone. I know he had a good season with Cassell and Jimmy G seems like the real thing. Still we'll see.

Exactly I'm so nauseous hearing everyone drool over how great Beliprick.  Once Brady retires that weasel will be running out of Foxboro that's why he was so pissed they traded away Jimmy G

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4 minutes ago, Larz said:

22. Mike Maccagnan, Jets

 

5-11 is a matter of perspective. In 2016, it was calamitous for the Jets, an epic fail of a season after the previous year’s narrow playoff miss. In 2017, it was a pleasant surprise, proof things could turn around faster than expected in Florham Park. At the center of it all is Mike Maccagnan, who has managed to see it all in just three years on the job. After reloading in 2015, doubling down in 2016 and rebuilding in 2017, Maccagnan now has something he previously lacked: A potential franchise player. Thanks to the Jets’ stadium mates in the Giants, Sam Darnold fell into Maccagnan’s lap at No. 3 overall. Like all quarterback prospects, Darnold divides opinion, but his upside is immense at only 21 years of age (in June). He’s a building block the Jets have lacked since 2009, the last time they traded up for a signal caller. Maccagnan needs Darnold to be better than Mark Sanchez, but his presence allows Maccagnan to better focus on the Big Picture now that he’s finally answered the Big Question of quarterback.    

5-11 is a matter of perspective? hmmmm

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11 minutes ago, Larz said:

22. Mike Maccagnan, Jets

 

5-11 is a matter of perspective. In 2016, it was calamitous for the Jets, an epic fail of a season after the previous year’s narrow playoff miss. In 2017, it was a pleasant surprise, proof things could turn around faster than expected in Florham Park. At the center of it all is Mike Maccagnan, who has managed to see it all in just three years on the job. After reloading in 2015, doubling down in 2016 and rebuilding in 2017, Maccagnan now has something he previously lacked: A potential franchise player. Thanks to the Jets’ stadium mates in the Giants, Sam Darnold fell into Maccagnan’s lap at No. 3 overall. Like all quarterback prospects, Darnold divides opinion, but his upside is immense at only 21 years of age (in June). He’s a building block the Jets have lacked since 2009, the last time they traded up for a signal caller. Maccagnan needs Darnold to be better than Mark Sanchez, but his presence allows Maccagnan to better focus on the Big Picture now that he’s finally answered the Big Question of quarterback.    

None of these dudes ever—EVER—passed an academic writing course. EVER. 

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Maccagnan has been up and down 

Makes a mess, cleans it up 

But if you keep promoting people into the position that have never done it, you have to eventually be patient with one of them and let them grow into the job. 

Just like Bowles, the good news is that you got the QB, the bad news is that you got the QB 

Now it's all about developing Darnold, giving him pieces and winning. 

 

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8 hours ago, Larz said:

Maccagnan has been up and down 

Makes a mess, cleans it up 

Now it's all about developing Darnold, giving him pieces and winning. 

 

Mac, Bowles, Darnold and the rest of the team are all in development. 

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16 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

We'll see how good Bill* B* is when Brady* is gone. I know he had a good season with Cassell and Jimmy G seems like the real thing. Still we'll see.

As far as the whole Jimmy G. thing I dont know what to think.

I know he looked good last season but lets face it its still early.

JG was either a genius pick and a total brain fart trade by BB or he felt he was not what he expected as 2nd rnd pick and then pulled a smart trade.

I know its been said TB forced the trade but I dont buy it.

BB and especially Kraft  look to the future of the franchise not the present like Brady has to.

If Jimmy G becomes a perennial top tier starter and the Pats become QB starved it will certainly stain BBs legacy as the GM.

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Tannenbaum and Terry Bradway (senior scout) making the personnel decisions for the Miami Dolphins delights me to a level I can't even describe. If only John Idzik could be hired as Buffalo GM.

The description of Tannenbaum's failings was right on the mark, and it didn't even touch upon his Jets exploits, like the Tebow trade, the endless trading away of draft picks for no good reason, Santonio Holmes ("who's the smart guy who signed him!"), letting Danny Woodhead get plucked away from us by Belichick, the Sanchez extension, etc. 

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