Jets QB Josh McCown has enduring quality

[Larz]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Larz with all due respect Josh McCown is 23-50 as an NFL starter on many teams he's a journeyman NFL loser, great teammate,class act just not a winning NFL QB not quite sure I want him mentoring a rookie phenom QB. All these wayward bound QB's nobody else wants sign with the Jets and many go giddy over them and elect them into the Jets ring of honor for some unknown reason. 

You're like my wife with directions. I ask her what she thinks and go the opposite way. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, Larz said:

You're like my wife with directions. I ask her what she thinks and go the opposite way. 

Thats ok why bother asking if you do what you want anyway...........

[Jetsplayer21]

24 minutes ago, slats said:

Two reasons. One, the three games in 11 days, 3/4 games on the road opening stretch and two, giving the OL time to gel with a new center and scheme. A few weeks of observing the NFL, and how the coaches and starting QB prepare and then actually work in regular season games can also only be a plus. But only so much can be learned sitting on the sidelines, he eventually has to get on the field and do it. Week five is the first of three straight home games, which is a great opportunity to break Sam in in front of friendly, supportive home crowds. He and the OL should be ready by then, too. 

I see we have a very late bye week this year. That has always been the best time to make the switch, especially a young qb. He needs that extra week after not getting a lot of time with first team in the first few weeks.

But after 10 games we should know if we are still in the playoff hunt. If we are not it shouldn’t matter how well josh is doing. If we are out of it, and darnold is not ready to come in by the bye week, he might as well sit the rest of the year. 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Who knows but I'd be very surprised.  I'd like to see him sit most of the year and learn from McCown (even if Bridgewater wins the job).  I don't know if our OL is strong enough for me to trust it to protect Darnold.  

Just listen to what the Jets are saying. Top 3 QBs do not sit long if at all. Bowles exclamation was not just a joke, the way he discusses Darnold starting is way different than it ever was for Petty and Hack, plus the Jets also realize Darnold playing puts butts in the seats. I would actually be shocked if he does not start the season. Just look at the comments they are making on only his third practice. Sitting a QB and expecting him to learn under the current CBA is just not a reality.

[joewilly12]

What mentoring did Josh provide Hackenberg with? 

Took this off 24/7 message board Im assuming a Cleveland Browns board?   

So, Josh says he'll mentor a young QB...for $6mil a year.  Well...yeah!!!  You're damn straight you will! Who wouldn't, especially when you've proven to be a mediocre QB in the NFL.

Damn scrub needs to be cut. Josh McCown mentoring your young QB is not a good proposition. He'll show the kid:

1) how to hold onto the ball way too long

2) when outside the hash marks, how not to throw the ball away, and take a sack 

3) How to throw interceptions in the red/end zone

4) How to lose poise in critical moments

5) how to take avoid sliding, and take big hits unnecessarily (this is what so-called experts call a "tough quarterback"). How about dumb quarterback.

I know, I know the naysayers will say he's a good backup. What good is a backup who can't win games? Cut Lil Abner.   Josh McCown = dumbest QB to ever wear a Browns uniform - bar none. Don't get me wrong, McCown may have an IQ of 160 (doubt it) BUT that's besides the point -- as far as playing NFL QB, he has an IQ of 60. I think the boys from Harvard will agree. Put that $6mil towards a high profile, immediate impact free agent.

[Dcat]

7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Did you not read OPINION the only factual information I have posted is 23-50 as an NFL starter,10 NFL teams 1 Canadian team, 0 NFL success. 

Please some factual information on other teams success with a mentor type QB in place that they are also paying $10 million a year..

Well your "opinion" is faulty in that it is creating a FALSE necessity for success at mentoring/teaching/coaching.  There is NO requirement that an excellent mentor/teacher/coach have had winning success as a player.  You just made that up in your 'opinion'.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What mentoring did Josh provide Hackenberg with? 

Took this off 24/7 message board Im assuming a Cleveland Browns board?   

So, Josh says he'll mentor a young QB...for $6mil a year.  Well...yeah!!!  You're damn straight you will! Who wouldn't, especially when you've proven to be a mediocre QB in the NFL.

Damn scrub needs to be cut. Josh McCown mentoring your young QB is not a good proposition. He'll show the kid:

1) how to hold onto the ball way too long

2) when outside the hash marks, how not to throw the ball away, and take a sack 

3) How to throw interceptions in the red/end zone

4) How to lose poise in critical moments

5) how to take avoid sliding, and take big hits unnecessarily (this is what so-called experts call a "tough quarterback"). How about dumb quarterback.

I know, I know the naysayers will say he's a good backup. What good is a backup who can't win games? Cut Lil Abner.   Josh McCown = dumbest QB to ever wear a Browns uniform - bar none. Don't get me wrong, McCown may have an IQ of 160 (doubt it) BUT that's besides the point -- as far as playing NFL QB, he has an IQ of 60. I think the boys from Harvard will agree. Put that $6mil towards a high profile, immediate impact free agent.

From what I've read/heard, he can teach him how to go about daily life as a QB.  How to train, how to review film, how to eat, how much to sleep, etc.  I realize that all of this can (and should) be done by the CS but for whatever reason it's not done.  I listened to a Peter King interview w/ McCown and he was talking about how he offered Johnny Manziel that type of mentoring.  I'm assuming that means their CS didn't (or maybe wasn't allowed to) do.  Maybe it's related to the CBA?

 

EDIT: Also mentioned in the Peter King interview, McCown has been in the league for like 15 seasons (something like that) and, amazingly, has never had the same OC 2 years in a row.   In other words, he's learned A LOT of different systems.

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Well your "opinion" is faulty in that it is creating a FALSE necessity for success at mentoring/teaching/coaching.  There is NO requirement that an excellent mentor/teacher/coach have had winning success as a player.  You just made that up in your 'opinion'.

And what you are posting is your OPINION as well......faulty? most definitely.

How did Josh McCown mentoring Christian Hackenberg workout and before him Ryan Fitzpatrick in your opinion of course. 

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I see we have a very late bye week this year. That has always been the best time to make the switch, especially a young qb. He needs that extra week after not getting a lot of time with first team in the first few weeks.

But after 10 games we should know if we are still in the playoff hunt. If we are not it shouldn’t matter how well josh is doing. If we are out of it, and darnold is not ready to come in by the bye week, he might as well sit the rest of the year. 

If Darnold is still on the bench in week 11, something has gone terribly wrong and someone should need to be fired. If Sam sits the entire year because for some reason Bowles thinks McCown gives him the best chance to win, then it should be Bowles. 

It's not about short term goals this year. It's about developing the new franchise QB and getting him up to speed ASAP and putting a championship roster around him while he's still on his rookie deal. Sitting him for the year just stunts his development. He has to get on the field, sooner rather than later. 

[Scott Dierking]

28 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What other team would have payed Josh McCown $10 million and before him Ryan Fitzpatrick.  

If I don't agree with you it becomes a comprehension thing in short of a personal attack which I'm sure is coming. 

You have your opinions and I have mine. 

49 years and counting............

You continue to ignore the question, what qb did YOU want? 

Since I am not a mindreader, I don't know what other teams would have paid him. Silly question.

You don't like him, we get it. As many million times s you say it, it does not make you right, though.

[T0mShane]

McCown is a good dude and has been a credit to the uniform. I didn’t feel that way about Fitzpatrick, whose ego never matched his play. There’s a reason so many teams kept paying Fitzpatrick to play for someone else’s squad. 

[joewilly12]

17 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You continue to ignore the question, what qb did YOU want? 

Since I am not a mindreader, I don't know what other teams would have paid him. Silly question.

You don't like him, we get it. As many million times s you say it, it does not make you right, though.

Im not sure I don't remember who else was available when they signed Josh McCown and named him the instant starter like they did with Ryan Fitzpatrick, how did that all work out. 

I do like him as a person great teammate, class act but with our QB situation he wasn't the right choice or the answer here and neither was Ryan Fitzpatrick both failed in "mentoring" Christian Hackenberg or Bryce Petty for that matter. 

[Dcat]

29 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

And what you are posting is your OPINION as well......faulty? most definitely.

How did Josh McCown mentoring Christian Hackenberg workout and before him Ryan Fitzpatrick in your opinion of course. 

Did Bill Parcells have success as a player?  Did Bill Belichick have success as a player?  No he wasn't drafted after college and never made it to the NFL.   I can name a lort of great coaches, mentors, teachers who had no success as a player and just as many who did .  There are also plenty of great players who were winners who have tanked out at coaching.  Just give it up already. Your opinion on this has no merit and in fact it is flat out convoluted.

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Did Bill Parcells have success as a player?  Did Bill Belichick have success as a player?  No he wasn't drafted after college and never made it to the NFL.   I can name a lort of great coaches, mentors, teachers who had no success as a player and just as many who did .  There are also plenty of great players who were winners who have tanked out at coaching.  Just give it up already. Your opinion on this has no merit and in fact it is flat out convoluted.

My opinion has factual merit Josh McCown is 23-50 as an NFL starter that equates a loser and yet you want him mentoring our rookie future franchise QB. 

How did Josh McCown's mentoring do with DeShone Kizer? 

Cleveland Browns: Josh McCown ready for more mentoring

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

My opinion has factual merit Josh McCown is 23-50 as an NFL starter that equates a loser and yet you want him mentoring our rookie future franchise QB. 

yes.  Because his career record says nothing about his ability to mentor, teach or coach.  There is no correlation.  There is no cause and effect.  Well there is, but it is only in your head. 

[Freemanm]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Larz with all due respect Josh McCown is 23-50 as an NFL starter on many teams he's a journeyman NFL loser, great teammate,class act just not a winning NFL QB not quite sure I want him mentoring a rookie phenom QB. All these wayward bound QB's nobody else wants sign with the Jets and many go giddy over them and elect them into the Jets ring of honor for some unknown reason. 

I want Darnold to be able to adjust to the speed of the game and to be comfortable reading complex NFL defenses before he becomes a starter. Regardless of McCown's career record, he can definitely help Darnold do that. There's no rush to start Darnold this year as we're probably going to finish 7-9 anyway. 

We made the same mistakes with Sanchez and Geno Smith by starting them right away (although both weren't as good as Darnold, I definitely think Geno Smith at least could have done a lot better if he he had a year under his belt before starting). 

Look at DeShone Kizer. Starting him right away was a huge mistake and now he's a scrub. Let's not do that with Darnold.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

My opinion has factual merit Josh McCown is 23-50 as an NFL starter that equates a loser and yet you want him mentoring our rookie future franchise QB. 

Perhaps you’d be interested to learn about a defensive end/tight end/boxer who played at San Jose State and went on to become Bill Walsh. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

yes.  Because his career record says nothing about his ability to mentor, teach or coach.  There is no correlation.  There is no cause and effect.  Well there is, but it is only in your head. 

The NFL is about wins and losses at least the last time I checked.

I will be anxiously awaiting for the NFL Mentor of the year award to Josh McCown of course, do they give that at the Super Bowl.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Perhaps you’d be interested to learn about a defensive end/tight end/boxer who played at San Jose State and went on to become Bill Walsh. 

So you are implying that Josh McCown could be the next Bill Walsh? 

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The NFL is about wins and losses at least the last time I checked.

I will be anxiously awaiting for the NFL Mentor of the year award to Josh McCown of course, do they give that at the Super Bowl.

McCown can be an excellent mentor, teacher, coach without having had winning success on the field.  There is no correlation at all. I'm glad he's here doing just that.  Smart move by Mac and Bowles.  You are just spewing hot air out of your arse just to argue.  Give it up.  You are completely wrong.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

McCown can be an excellent mentor, teacher, coach wothout havein winning success on the field.  There is no correlation at all. I'm glad he's here doing just that.  Smart move by Mac and Bowles.  You are just spewing hot air out of your arse just to argue.  Give it up.  You are completely wrong.

Was he worth the $10 million they paid him?  How about what they paid Ryan Fitzpatrick we even paid him when he wasn't on the team?  

Just hate seeing the fans fall for this bullsh*t all the time here I thought Ryan Fitzpatrick taught everyone a lesson.

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Im not sure I don't remember who else was available when they signed Josh McCown 

 

Not a very good answer to support your cause.

 

[joewilly12]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Not a very good answer to support your cause.

 

I honestly do not remember. 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

I honestly do not remember. 

The prosecution rests, your honor.

[Dcat]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Was he worth the $10 million they paid him?  How about what they paid Ryan Fitzpatrick?  

I could care less about Woody's money.  We had plenty of cap space to do so.  Now you are grasping at straws to defend your feeble argument.  You are being ridiculous.  So if they overpaid, they overpaid.  Money and cap space is not the debate here.. It's whether a player who has had little to no success on the field can become a great mentor, teacher and coach.  And the answer to that is a resounding yes.  Look at the NFL all time great coaches and you will see how wrong you are.  

At this point you are just repeating the same moronic argument over and over.  You ignore that there are plenty of excellent coaches and mentors in the history of the NFL who have had little to no success as players and you are now turning it into a salary cap issue.  Just pathetic debating by you here.  

[joewilly12]

The list of mentor QB's that were supposed to help this team succeed feel free to add the names I'm sure I have forgotten. 

Mike Vick 

Jay Fiedler 

Rick Mirer 

Mark Brunell 

Ryan Fitzpatrick 

Josh McCown 

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

You're like my wife with directions. I ask her what she thinks and go the opposite way. 

GREAT ONE!!!LMAO.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The prosecution rests, your honor.

My sentence a lifelong NY Jets fan 

[MDL_JET]

13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

My opinion has factual merit Josh McCown is 23-50 as an NFL starter that equates a loser and yet you want him mentoring our rookie future franchise QB. 

How did Josh McCown's mentoring do with DeShone Kizer? 

You could also check out Doug Peterson's career as a player. Please, show me his winning stats and winning record as a starter. By JoeWilly's standards he's a loser and should've never became a good coach. 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I could care less about Woody's money.  We had plenty of cap space to do so.  Now you are grasping at straws to defend your feeble argument.  You are being ridiculous.  So if they overpaid, they overpaid.  Money and cap space is not the debate here.. It's whether a player who has had little to no success on the field can become a great mentor, teacher and coach.  And the answer to that is a resounding yes.  Look at the NFL all time great coaches and you will see how wrong you are.  

At this point you are just repeating the same moronic argument over and over.  You ignore that there are plenty of excellent coaches and mentors in the history of the NFL who have had little to no success as players and you are now turning it into a salary cap issue.  Just pathetic debating by you here.  

I still stand by what I said I don't think and NFL loser QB with a lifetime record of 23-50 is a good mentor for our future franchise rookie QB. 

Carry on. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

You could also check out Doug Peterson's career as a player. Please, show me his winning stats and winning record as a starter. By JoeWilly's standards he's a loser and should've never became a good coach. 

We are discussing Josh McCown mentoring Sam Darnold 1-1 here I thought. Not comparing coaches who were players and failed. 

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I still stand by what I said I don't think and NFL loser QB with a lifetime record of 23-50 is a good mentor for our future franchise rookie QB. 

Carry on. 

cool. It's always fun to watch someone feebly try to defend the indefensible.  Enjoy your 'opinion'. 

 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

cool. It's always fun to watch someone feebly try to defend the indefensible.  Enjoy your 'opinion'. 

 

Yes Ryan Fitzpatrick says hello. What did you do with his jersey hopefully a scarecrow or a car oil rag. 

[slats]

12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Was he worth the $10 million they paid him?  How about what they paid Ryan Fitzpatrick we even paid him when he wasn't on the team?  

Just hate seeing the fans fall for this bullsh*t all the time here I thought Ryan Fitzpatrick taught everyone a lesson.

Even after paying McCown $10M, the Jets still have a boatload of cap room. Signing him had zero effect on their ability to bring in other free agents. 

No amount of whining about it (although we all appreciate your efforts in that regard) is going to negate the fact that the guy’s an asset, overpaid or not. 

[JetFaninMI]

55 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Well your "opinion" is faulty in that it is creating a FALSE necessity for success at mentoring/teaching/coaching.  There is NO requirement that an excellent mentor/teacher/coach have had winning success as a player.  You just made that up in your 'opinion'.

Well I disagree with that. You learn to win on the field. I define that as finishing games, not quitting, keeping a team you're beating down, and not making stupid mistakes. Whether it comes from coaching or playing together a team learns to win on the field. McCown's record speaks for itself in that regard. Maybe it was due to lack of talent around him or the fact that he just wasn't good enough to get them over the hump but his record does come into play at some point. What McCown does bring into play is his attitude. He is very team oriented and that's a good thing. Did it translate into wins? In Josh's case:NO. Will it affect him as a mentor/teacher? If they had drafted Mayfield/Rosen I would say yes. Those guys attitudes would not let them learn from what they would call "a loser". Darnold is the polar opposite of those two and I think he will be able to absorb all McCown has to offer without McCowns record on the field coming into play. So I have no problem with McCown as a mentor to Darnold. Mayfield/Rosen would be a different matter entirely.