What is Macc's Plan as General Manager of the Jets?

[Villain The Foe]

I sat down today and watched a video that will be linked below of Howie Roseman and his plan to make the Eagles a successful franchise. What I watched left me with the same feeling that I had towards the end of this season of replacing Mike Maccagnan, not just because of our record, but because I have no idea the direction of this team. 

This won't be a thread requesting him to be fired, but more of an opportunity to ask and see if any of you have recognized this plan of Mike Maccagnan's and can you give a general breakdown of it. Because outside "trying to find value" I cant point to anything specific and say "That's part of Mike's plan to build the Jets into a Champion". 

 

And as a side note, Howie Roseman a GM that believes in and uses analytics to build his roster. Below is the video that I seen. 

 

What do you think is Maccagnans plan outside of dumping the entire franchise on the shoulders of Sam Darnold? 

[T0mShane]

[Lupz27]

Hmmmm wonder if this thread gets created if Baker Mayfield was the Jets draft pick?

[Jet Blast]

I know he has a philosophy, but that is not a plan. It's tough to see if he has a plan when ownership is interfering. I get the sense that Chris is giving him more free reign than Woody did, so maybe between this season and next we will be able to see a plan... if he has one.

[bealeb319]

He is trying to build the team to be more respectable. He got rid of problem children that he inherited like Richardson and wilk (after realizing his mistake in resigning him) and he replaced them with leaders like Jamal adams. I think his plan right now is to build a team around locker room unity. Mac has made some mistakes and some bad moves as a gm but it is important to remember how bad the the team was and that he was also new to being a gm. I am pretty excited about what he has done this off-season for once we have two qbs who could potentially be more than a low grade starter in the league competing for a job.

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[Villain The Foe]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

lmao! Exactly! 

[dbatesman]

Its called a competitive rebuild genious

[The Crusher]

[Villain The Foe]

21 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Hmmmm wonder if this thread gets created if Baker Mayfield was the Jets draft pick?

It probably wouldn't, but since he drafted the Bryce Petty's and Christian Hackenberg's of the world...hence the question.  

And to continue to poke at your Baker hatred, I spoke to @Patriot Killa about a week or two ago stating that I purchased a few new Jerseys. Here they are.

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Its called a competitive rebuild genious

lol. Dude has been great at rebuilding every year....I'll give him that! 

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

He is trying to build the team to be more respectable. He got rid of problem children that he inherited like Richardson and wilk (after realizing his mistake in resigning him) and he replaced them with leaders like Jamal adams. I think his plan right now is to build a team around locker room unity. Mac has made some mistakes and some bad moves as a gm but it is important to remember how bad the the team was and that he was also new to being a gm. I am pretty excited about what he has done this off-season for once we have two qbs who could potentially be more than a low grade starter in the league competing for a job.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

Is there anything that we can point to in regards to on the field, meaning developing positions, depth at positions etc? 

This is his 4th year as GM, it has to be more than releasing players you inherited. Look at Jon Gruden. Dude went to the Raiders and began cleaning out players he didn't want, and did it before hitting OTA's. 

He went as far as cutting the clear-cut best Punter in the league, because he's a Jokester. 

 

 

[bealeb319]

Is there anything that we can point to in regards to on the field, meaning developing positions, depth at positions etc? 
This is his 4th year as GM, it has to be more than releasing players you inherited. Look at Jon Gruden. Dude went to the Raiders and began cleaning out players he didn't want, and did it before hitting OTA's. 
He went as far as cutting the clear-cut best Punter in the league, because he's a Jokester. 
 
 

Development of players is not the sole responsability of the gm, Mac has brought talent in the coaching staff has to coach and develop the players. I think one of the worst moves Mac has made is allowing Bowles to keep his friend kayce Rodgers as dc.

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[Villain The Foe]

Just now, bealeb319 said:

Development of players is not the sole responsability of the gm, Mac has brought talent in the coaching staff has to coach and develop the players. I think one of the worst moves Mac has made is allowing Bowles to keep his friend kayce Rodgers as dc.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

I never once said that development of players is the sole responsibility of the GM. However, to provide you with an example, when we see how poor our Oline can be from starters, or when starters go down, I wonder what our GM's plan is when it's his job to put together player personnel. What positions does he hold in high regard, what does he think is important to building a football team to win a championship. When I see a guy draft young QB's but provides nothing to the offensive line or to the rushing game then I have to look at Macc when I come to the conclusion that he's not providing anything for the coaches to develop. 

I dont see anything consistent with him outside of investing in the D-line and the secondary. Yet even with those positions it's not like we're shut down there, though it would be safe to say that Macc in his years here has put in enormous resources to those positions via the draft or Free agency. Outside of that it seems the rest of what makes up a football team is pretty much a crap shoot. 

I'll give him credit for moving up to draft Darnold. I honestly do believe that Darnold's potential is MUCH higher than Petty and Hack, but his RT is Shell, is center is some Jag, his LT is an injury away etc. His best Lineman are the guards and they're middle of the pack/average-to-good players. And by the way, we have zero depth at the Oline. That's not a great combination when you mix that with the fact that Darnold fumbles alot. Not knocking the player, but simply criticising the GM and his player personnel decisions. How is he building this team? It seems like all we give a crap about is Lineman and secondary players and a young QB that can keep the fanbase quiet living off of potential. That's not how you build a football team. 

[GKnight83]

I understand a lot of folks do not get it.  It is hard to argue with them when our GM has misfired a bit.  

However, the man and his team were absolutely stellar in cutting dead wood and preparing for free agency.  Also, it was a great job moving up to position for selection of a QB.  Will it pan out?  We will see.

It has been reported a couple of times that the priority now is preparing Darnold!  If he is starting by year end I will be impressed.  I for one am also keeping an eye on Bridgewater. It is starting to look like another stellar move there.  I am starting to believe he may start before Darnold.  That would be great as he could be traded if and when Darold is ready.

You will start to see the longer term strategy next off season and the draft.

[T0mShane]

33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It probably wouldn't, but since he drafted the Bryce Petty's and Christian Hackenbergs of the world...hence the question.  

And to continue to poke at your Baker hatred, I spoke at @Patriot Killa about a week or two ago stating that I purchased a few new Jerseys. Here they are.

Did you have to pay in euros for those Jamal Adams jerseys or do they just give you one for finishing the five pound weinerschnitzel at Rümplebee’s? 

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, GKnight83 said:

I understand a lot of folks do not get it.  It is hard to argue with them when our GM has misfired a bit.  

However, the man and his team were absolutely stellar in cutting dead wood and preparing for free agency.  Also, it was a great job moving up to position for selection of a QB.  Will it pan out?  We will see.

It has been reported a couple of times that the priority now is preparing Darnold!  If he is starting by year end I will be impressed.  I for one am also keeping an eye on Bridgewater. It is starting to look like another stellar move there.  I am starting to believe he may start before Darnold.  That would be great as he could be traded if and when Darold is ready.

You will start to see the longer term strategy next off season and the draft.

 

Part 3 of the true rebuild, in redshirt year # 6?  Can't wait!

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, GKnight83 said:

I understand a lot of folks do not get it.  It is hard to argue with them when our GM has misfired a bit.  

However, the man and his team were absolutely stellar in cutting dead wood and preparing for free agency.  Also, it was a great job moving up to position for selection of a QB.  Will it pan out?  We will see.

It has been reported a couple of times that the priority now is preparing Darnold!  If he is starting by year end I will be impressed.  I for one am also keeping an eye on Bridgewater. It is starting to look like another stellar move there.  I am starting to believe he may start before Darnold.  That would be great as he could be traded if and when Darold is ready.

You will start to see the longer term strategy next off season and the draft.

Moving up in the draft is great, however, providing talent around that guy is key, especially when you gave up three 2nd round picks just to move up 3 spots. That's my point. The job isnt finished. It's more to a football team than trading up. We did that with Petty and Hackenberg, and that didn't end well, and even if they were good QB's they need a running game and an offensive line to protect them. Im satisfied with our WR situation. No superstars, but guys who if put in the right situation with the right QB can produce. 

I want to start seeing the strategy now though, it's year 4. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Did you have to pay in euros for those Jamal Adams jerseys or do they just give you one for finishing the five pound weinerschnitzel at Rümplebee’s? 

lmao! That made me laugh. 

Given that I dont eat pork anymore, I paid with Euros! lol. 

[The Crusher]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Did you have to pay in euros for those Jamal Adams jerseys or do they just give you one for finishing the five pound weinerschnitzel at Rümplebee’s? 

Did you get a new Jets Snuggy too?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

One of my biggest criticisms has been the lack of a coherent vision with roster building. it just feels like a series of incremental roster decisions without a semblance of a plan. At least they are starting to draft better athletes. 

 

[bealeb319]

I never once said that development of players is the sole responsibility of the GM. However, to provide you with an example, when we see how poor our Oline can be from starters, or when starters go down, I wonder what our GM's plan is when it's his job to put together player personnel. What positions does he hold in high regard, what does he think is important to building a football team to win a championship. When I see a guy draft young QB's but provides nothing to the offensive line or to the rushing game then I have to look at Macc when I come to the conclusion that he's not providing anything for the coaches to develop. 
I dont see anything consistent with him outside of investing in the D-line and the secondary. Yet even with those positions it's not like we're shut down there, though it would be safe to say that Macc in his years here has put in enormous resources to those positions via the draft or Free agency. Outside of that it seems the rest of what makes up a football team is pretty much a crap shoot. 
I'll give him credit for moving up to draft Darnold. I honestly do believe that Darnold's potential is MUCH higher than Petty and Hack, but his RT is Shell, is center is some Jag, his LT is an injury away etc. His best Lineman are the guards and they're middle of the pack/average-to-good players. And by the way, we have zero depth at the Oline. That's not a great combination when you mix that with the fact that Darnold fumbles alot. Not knocking the player, but simply criticising the GM and his player personnel decisions. How is he building this team? It seems like all we give a crap about is Lineman and secondary players and a young QB that can keep the fanbase quiet living off of potential. That's not how you build a football team. 

I agree we could have done a bit more to sure up our offensive line, I think there is somewhat of a possibility that acquiring the right players and having them actually pan out the way they should on paper is harder than we think. I do not believe that anyone had the expectations that we were going to have a near perfect roster this year. I do not know what Macs plan for the season is but I wouldn't be surprised if he held back on letting darnold play unless the o line is better than expected.

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[bla bla bla]

Here’s my take:

Macc inhereted a terrible team with a ton of cap space and a top 6 pick. The idea was to try and take advantage of the vets that were aging on our roster while using that window to draft his own players and see if Geno was the answer at QB. I believe the Devin Smith pick was poor luck but was the right type of selection to take advantage of Geno’s arm. The Leo pick made sense as we lacked talent across the board, Sheldon had been in trouble, and Mo refused to sign a long term deal. 

Geno gets knocked out and the team over achieves playing a weak schedule. I believe at this point we knew Geno was not the answer and were looking for a QB. We didn’t have the firepower at that point to get up and get Goff or Wentz, people say there was a rumored deal that included Mo but I’ve never seen anything outside of forum posts. So we are stuck in the middle of round 1, Mac drafts the fastest LB from the best defense in college to replace a slow LB core. The Hack pick IMO is the most agregious of his selections, there have only been like 3 QBs taken that late to actually pan out, that pick should have been used elsewhere. But for the sake of getting inside Mac’s head we’ll say that’s Hack was a long shot prospect that would allow us to groom for a year because we knew we wanted to make one more run with Fitz (even though he hadn’t been signed yet).

The wheels fall off this season and the team bottoms out earning a top 6 pick again. Our secondary was consistently burnt over the top and the locker room needed a reset. Mac did the equivalent of Thanos snapping his fingers to our roster and poof half the team was gone. He selects Adams to be his field general even though Mahomes and Watson are still on the board. Passing on a QB for a safety was alright in my eyes because I think they wanted to have Petty and Hack duke it out. If either wins the job then we have solved our QB for cheap while adding talent around them. If they can’t earn the starting job then the team will bottom out and have a ton of cap space to either sign Kirk Cousins or have a high enough pick to land a top QB in what was considered a far more promising draft class.

This past season was all about 1 goal “who is our future QB” it’s the only question that deserved any real attention IMO. Trading Sheldon and pre-emptively trading up to #3 were all moves that align with that thought process. Now that we have the QB there is a clear direction we are headed in terms of “who is the guy”. We will get a chance to see our skill players with an actual QB and see if we have fixed our line before heading into an offseason with $105M in cap space. My guess is that we will spend heavily on WR/OL in Free Agency and then since we still have our 1st rounder I think we will target a pass rusher. This past offseason we were not a desirable landing spot for FAs, now that we have the QB if he can show any flashes and TB12 shows any sign of regression then I think we will see players want to come here without needing to drastically over pay. It’s been a long process that could have been accelerated with different selections but I think the needle is still pointing up.

[Jetsfan80]

26 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

One of my biggest criticisms has been the lack of a coherent vision with roster building. it just feels like a series of incremental roster decisions without a semblance of a plan. At least they are starting to draft better athletes. 

 

And that has Heimerdinger's fingerprints all over it, not Macc's.  If it were up to Macc he'd throw SPARQ ratings in the trash. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Because outside "trying to find value" I cant point to anything specific and say "That's part of Mike's plan to build the Jets into a Champion". 

There really hasn't been anything more to it than that before this year. It's been all BAP in the draft, regardless of position, and trying to get deals in free agency. 

This year, they were given a directive by the stand-in owner: get a QB. They had a clear-cut Plan A and Plan B in that regard, got lucky (IMHO) that Cousins took less money to play for the Vikings and quickly pivoted to Plan B. Got lucky again when Darnold dropped lower than any draft follower expected, and here we are. Bridgewater is a bit of a wildcard that I look forward to seeing play out. Trading Hack sorta changes the trading Teddy scenarios. 

I'm a fan of the BAP philosophy in the draft overall but, in my opinion, Mac fails to weigh a player's position appropriately when determining who the BAP is. The Jets now have a defense with a very good secondary, a solid DL, but still no pass rush - the most important ingredient in any defense. WTF? I'm also a fan of drafting OL lower and developing them, but Mac hasn't done enough there. The OL needs to be upgraded still. 

It's my opinion that he has this year and next to put a winner on the field or he's gone. Darnold is the key. If he's what he's supposed to be, and the Jets get him on the field in a timely manner to display it, the team will much better attract FAs next year. They particularly need FA OL, pass rushers don't make it to free agency. 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

As if she would waste a piece of spaghetti

[Beerfish]

Here are my issues:

- Knew all along he was going to draft a young franchise QB whether it be petty, hack or darnold and has almost totally ignored the offensive line.  The same thing they did in Texas with  Carr, they ignored the oline, drafted the QB and then drafted oilne but it was too late because in those two years the QB got killed every game and was ruined.

- Has failed to draft almost nay of the prime positions that cost big dollars and ones you very rarely find in FA.  He has drafted a lot of positions in which it is easy to find acceptable to good vets in FA.  (Safety, ilb)

- I totally  believe he has 100% pandered to the head coach in his moves and though you have to work with a coach on a plan we have gone way over board on the D side of the ball.

[UntouchableCrew]

I think it depends what you mean by "strategy" to team building.

Clearly since the disastrous 2016 season there has been some direction:

1) Reshape the locker room by dumping high priced veteran malcontents. 

2) Get younger.

3) Bring in guys perceived to have high character to in impact the locker room in a meaningful way.

It's clear that reshaping the culture has been a big part of what they're trying to do, and it's probably been the area in which they've been most successful. The team is younger, hungrier and more positive than it was a year ago.

As far as the talent construction vs scheme there is definitely a less clear and obvious direction. We've used premium picks on non premium positions. The idea seems to be "best player available" and getting the best value possible but it hasn't led to an obvious direction offensively or defensively. Offense is tougher -- we're on the third OC in four years and have seen a radical shift in scheme from Gailey to what we assume Bates will run but we also just haven't used many high picks on that side of the ball (what else is new) and the ones we have used have been total failures.

Building the defense is a far more obvious area of failure from Mac down to Bowles and Rogers. We've simply invested way too much into that side of the ball not to be better. We know exactly what scheme we're trying to run and we've been trying to build it for years -- and the biggest moves we've made on that side of the ball seem to be dumping former studs from the d-line because Bowles can't motivate them. Hope isn't all lost (I'm still a believer in Williams, Adams, and Maye, and I like the FA moves we made this off season) but there's honestly no excuse for the defense not to be top 10 in 2018. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Jet Blast said:

I know he has a philosophy, but that is not a plan. It's tough to see if he has a plan when ownership is interfering. I get the sense that Chris is giving him more free reign than Woody did, so maybe between this season and next we will be able to see a plan... if he has one.

LOL - I see the polar opposite of this. I see an acting-owner who is more heavily meddling, unlike his actual-owner brother.

It'd been repeatedly reported that a lot of this change - including the massive increase in college QB scouting and hiring a FO brain to compensate for Macc's lack of it - was due to CJ's influence, not because of CJ staying clear of Florham Park. 

In the months before CJ was named acting owner, Macc was still trying to extend Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clady, and held on tightly to David Harris and Eric Decker. And for all the "Big Macc knew not to take a QB last year" stuff, it's just that. They more or less admitted the only QB they'd have taken at #6 was Trubisky (i.e. if Trubisky was still there at #6 - and perhaps if he'd reached #5 - then there is no Darnold). 

Other than the one, "If I thought we could have had Darrelle for [$12m] ..." reply during the Idzik/Rex firing presser, which shows how hands-off he was even with a player he wanted, there were no real leaks for years that Woody imposed this or that player against the GM's will. It was all assumed by many, because Woody is an asshat and it's convenient to place all the blame onto an asshat. Meanwhile Macc - like Idzik, Tannenbaum, and Bradway before him - has stated in various ways that Woody let them do their own thing.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

It probably wouldn't, but since he drafted the Bryce Petty's and Christian Hackenberg's of the world...hence the question.  

And to continue to poke at your Baker hatred, I spoke to @Patriot Killa about a week or two ago stating that I purchased a few new Jerseys. Here they are.

You purchased a Baker Mayfield jersey?  

Please tell me this is a joke.  Pretty please.  Even if it's not, lie to me.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, GKnight83 said:

However, the man and his team were absolutely stellar in cutting dead wood and preparing for free agency.

Reading sh*t like this makes me want to scream. This is his fourth offseason. Any dead wood on the roster is his fault.

[JetFaninMI]

To me Macc's plan is like a blindfolded man throwing darts. You're bound to hit  the bullseye once in awhile (Leo,Adams, Darnold).

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 LOL - I see the polar opposite of this. I see an acting owner who is more heavily meddling, unlike his actual-owner brother.

It'd been repeatedly reported that a lot of this change - including the massive increase in college QB scouting and hiring a FO brain to compensate for Macc's lack of it - was due to CJ's influence, not because of CJ staying clear of Florham Park. 

In the months before CJ was named acting owner, Macc was still trying to extend Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clady, and held on tightly to David Harris and Eric Decker. And for all the "Big Macc knew not to take a QB last year" stuff, it's just that. They more or less admitted the only QB they'd have taken at #6 was Trubisky (i.e. if Trubisky was still there at #6 - and perhaps if he'd reached #5 - then there is no Darnold). 

Other than the one, "If I thought we could have had Darrelle for [$12m] ..." reply during the Idzik/Rex firing presser, which shows how hands-off he was even with a player he wanted, there were no real leaks for years that Woody imposed this or that player against the GM's will. It was all assumed by many, because Woody is an asshat and it's convenient to place all the blame onto an asshat. Meanwhile Macc - like Idzik, Tannenbaum, and Bradway before him - has stated in various ways that Woody let them do their own thing.

Where has the bolded been reported?

[JiFtheOracle]

If I had to guess, Mac's plan is to do whatever the **** Todd Bowles tells him to do. 

[peebag]

The question is this - are we any better off in 2018 than we were in 2015?

(don't look at me, I don't know)

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Where has the bolded been reported?

Seriously?

It was big news back in February just last year, and we discussed both here. They both turned him down, lucky for us.

Marshall turned down because he felt the Giants, unlike the Jets, were SB contenders in 2017.  

Clady was only let go because he wouldn't come down off his 8-figure salary. Otherwise the team was keeping him (i.e. extending him beyond 2016 by giving him a new contract for 2017). They wanted him back, but just not for another $10m+. Turned out no one else wanted him, so then he retired after shopping himself around.