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Jets Offensive Line


Vince

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4 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Not even sure there are building blocks, maybe Shell stays? everyone else could be gone next year, great opportunity for Garcia and CFL guys to make a statement 

LT - Beachum, Kelvin, Ijalana, Ben, Garcia, Antonio, James, Darius CF18        
LG  - Carpenter, James, Dozier, Dakota, Braden, Ben CF17                
C - Long, Spencer, Swanson, Travis, Golson, Austin CF18                
RG - Winters, Brian, Harrison, Jonotthan SF17                        
RT - Shell, Brandon, Qvale, Brent, Shepley, Dakoda CF18    

Beachum's PFF grade last year was 72. Nate Solder was 75. According to bleacherreport, Beachum was the 19th ranked Tackle while Nate Solder was the 23rd. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752521-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-left-tackles-of-2017-season#slide7

The Giants had to pay Solder a fortune so I think Beachum is pretty undervalued on this board. No, he isn't a stud LT, but he is very solid and is still only 28 which is not that old for a tackle. 

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6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Beachum's PFF grade last year was 72. Nate Solder was 75. According to bleacherreport, Beachum was the 19th ranked Tackle while Nate Solder was the 23rd. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752521-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-left-tackles-of-2017-season#slide7

The Giants had to pay Solder a fortune so I think Beachum is pretty undervalued on this board. No, he isn't a stud LT, but he is very solid and is still only 28 which is not that old for a tackle. 

I have no issues with Beachum considering his FA contract, he has been a solid player, not easy to find a LT in FA, just not sure he is a building block, Brick retired at 32 and Beachum can void the final year of his contract with a Pro-Bowl selection, the market could make him prohibitive to resign

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On 6/6/2018 at 5:20 PM, jetstream23 said:

It’s wishful thinking but I really think we need a Brick/Mangold type Draft emphasis again sooner rather than later.

If I’m the Jets then I’m sitting in Round 1 next year and really only looking at two positions from which to take the BPA - Left Tackle and Edge Rusher. 

This is a given. Has to be. In 2019, Mac has to revamp the OL because Darnold must be protected. Mac can’t afford to let the Red Golden Goose manhandled once he takes over. We’ve got big bucks in FA next year and a #1 and a #3. Pass rusher, LT, RT, G, LB are absolute musts next year. 

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We have had this discussion... many times.

The offensive line is the most important unit on a team.  By far.  The Jets continuing to ignore the position in the draft is indefensible.  They finally decided to trade up for a franchise QB.  Now we have to hope that he lasts long enough to build a young OL behind this veteran holdover group. I think the Jets might have put the cart before the horse (I hate cliches but oh well).  Nevertheless, I am still encouraged because Darnold's best attribute is his ability to sense pressure with "360 degree" eyes.

Macc isn't perfect, but he is better for long term success than what the Jets have had in a while.

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8 hours ago, RoadFan said:

We have had this discussion... many times.

The offensive line is the most important unit on a team.  By far.  The Jets continuing to ignore the position in the draft is indefensible.  They finally decided to trade up for a franchise QB.  Now we have to hope that he lasts long enough to build a young OL behind this veteran holdover group. I think the Jets might have put the cart before the horse (I hate cliches but oh well).  Nevertheless, I am still encouraged because Darnold's best attribute is his ability to sense pressure with "360 degree" eyes.

Macc isn't perfect, but he is better for long term success than what the Jets have had in a while.

They may have gone after a guard of they had a 2nd rounder but as Macc said they weren't going to draft oline just for the sake of it later on. 

They missed out on the free agent oline prospects because they were selling "Hey maybe we sign cousins or draft a rookie" 

Next season if Darnold or teddy has a good year I think they will sign a few guys on the oline because guys will want to play here 

Last year the tackles were ok but the Jets were terrible up the middle. Hopefully long can improve that 

Whats a head scratcher to me is they are letting carpenter compete for a job 

With the scheme change you would think the Jets could have traded him like the colts did with Henry Anderson 

 

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As a former secondary coach, Bowles needs studs all over the backfield to make a competent defense. But Macc thinks Bowles can put together a functional OL with retreads and JAGs.

You’d expect the HC to do more with less in his area of expertise and allocate more resources to areas that he’s not an expert at. Never understood how most coaches lobby and overload the roster on “their” side of the ball. A good HC would do the exact opposite.

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A lot of hopes and prayers for the OL this year. Basically hoping that Winters is healthy and better, Shell continues to improve, Long is a genuine upgrade, and the new zone blocking scheme makes a difference. A lot of "ifs." It can work, especially with improved QB play, but it's pretty certain to be an up and down year for the group. 

Next year OL has to be the focus of free agency, especially with no second round pick. They need to go into the draft feeling good about the line, not being in a position where they feel they have to go OL in the first. 

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11 hours ago, jgb said:

As a former secondary coach, Bowles needs studs all over the backfield to make a competent defense. But Macc thinks Bowles can put together a functional OL with retreads and JAGs.

You’d expect the HC to do more with less in his area of expertise and allocate more resources to areas that he’s not an expert at. Never understood how most coaches lobby and overload the roster on “their” side of the ball. A good HC would do the exact opposite.

Maybe you haven't heard, they traded up with the Colts for a QB, signed a QB, signed a RB, Center, Center /Guard, LT and a WR, drafted a TE and a RB, signed an udfa FB 

I think I figured out why you don't understand it 

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14 minutes ago, Larz said:

Maybe you haven't heard, they traded up with the Colts for a QB, signed a QB, signed a RB, Center, Center /Guard, LT and a WR, drafted a TE and a RB, signed an udfa FB 

I think I figured out why you don't understand it 

Finally after how many years we got an offensive player in round one. It wasn’t just a knock on Bowles. But several regimes in a row. And by the way, the Jets defense was atrocious last year, before finally spending premium draft capital for the first time in 8 or 9 years or whatever it is on a non-defender. 

 

Offense was actually better than the defense despite having nobodies out there. So what does Bowles do? Can the OC.

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Just now, jgb said:

Finally after how many years we got an offensive player in round one. It wasn’t just a knock on Bowles. But several regimes in a row. And by the way, the Jets defense was atrocious last year, before finally spending premium draft capital for the first time in 8 or 9 years or whatever it is on a non-defender. 

I forgot they also signed a TE and another RB 

The only position on offense they didn't try to address seems to be RT 

 

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1 minute ago, Larz said:

I forgot they also signed a TE and another RB 

The only position on offense they didn't try to address seems to be RT 

 

Big difference between signing guys and spending real capital on guys. Every offseason jets probably sign at least one guy at every position going into camp.

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16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Signing an UFDA isnt “addressing the position.”

Also, drafting a guy on Day 3 is very different than on Day 1 or 2.

I didn't list the 3 udfa offensive lineman they signed because they are camp bodies. Rawls probably gets cut but he is not some udfa Longshot nobody 

Flowers has a good shot at making the team 

Keep digging, this is getting entertaining 

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On 6/7/2018 at 11:55 AM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Beachum's PFF grade last year was 72. Nate Solder was 75. According to bleacherreport, Beachum was the 19th ranked Tackle while Nate Solder was the 23rd. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752521-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-left-tackles-of-2017-season#slide7

The Giants had to pay Solder a fortune so I think Beachum is pretty undervalued on this board. No, he isn't a stud LT, but he is very solid and is still only 28 which is not that old for a tackle. 

As long as Beachum stays healthy our OL is decent.  

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5 hours ago, jgb said:

Finally after how many years we got an offensive player in round one. It wasn’t just a knock on Bowles. But several regimes in a row. And by the way, the Jets defense was atrocious last year, before finally spending premium draft capital for the first time in 8 or 9 years or whatever it is on a non-defender. 

 

Offense was actually better than the defense despite having nobodies out there. So what does Bowles do? Can the OC.

Our OLBs are beyond atrocious so our defense again will be atrocious next year

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8 hours ago, Larz said:

I didn't list the 3 udfa offensive lineman they signed because they are camp bodies. Rawls probably gets cut but he is not some udfa Longshot nobody 

Flowers has a good shot at making the team 

Keep digging, this is getting entertaining 

 

 

Let’s put all the jets draft capital into a bucket, with first round picks worth significantly more. Then let’s add in money as well. What percentage of the total during the Macc/Bowles regime would you say has been allocated to the offense?

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6 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

 

Let’s put all the jets draft capital into a bucket, with first round picks worth significantly more. Then let’s add in money as well. What percentage of the total during the Macc/Bowles regime would you say has been allocated to the offense?

About even 

The disparity is in 1st round picks but if you count Darnold as 4 picks you will be surprised 

Do the math 

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4 minutes ago, Larz said:

About even 

The disparity is in 1st round picks but if you count Darnold as 4 picks you will be surprised 

Do the math 

So you need this years massive investment in Darnold to make it about even. So again why has Bowles defenses been bad with huge overallocation to defense up to now?

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

So you need this years massive investment in Darnold to make it about even. So again why has Bowles defenses been bad with huge tilt to defense up to now? Answer: not a good head coach.

It's 13 to 11 offense /defense with Darnold trade picks, 10 to 11 without 

That's not stacking is it? 

Kacey Rodgers is the DC

Do you follow the Jets? 

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1 minute ago, Larz said:

It's 13 to 11 offense /defense with Darnold trade picks, 10 to 11 without 

That's not stacking is it? 

Kacey Rodgers is the DC

Do you follow the Jets? 

you keep backing away for your points. So now the argument is that it’s all moot because the DC and not the HC bears responsibility for the poor defense. So then if Morton was responsible for the offense... what exactly is Bowles on the hook for? Seems like not much. Good work if you can find it.

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Just now, jgb said:

you keep backing away for your points. So now the argument is that it’s all moot because the DC and not the HC bears responsibility for the poor defense. So then if Morton was responsible for the offense... what exactly is Bowles on the hook for? Seems like not much. Good work if you can find it.

I'm going to work on my hot chick draft board 

Have a great night 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

OT Johnson was a 2017 5th round pick. Raw...Might be worth a look...It'd be a grand slam if Jets think enough of Garcia and Johnson to bring aboard, find a way to keep on 53 man, and develop for 2018 season.

2017 DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 3-4

SOURCES TELL US

 "He should have gone back, but I think he's interesting because I still think he is growing into his body. He will probably always have some balance issues because he's always going to be a leaner. If he can improve his body control with that length ... that could be really interesting." - AFC Director of College Scouting

NFL COMPARISON

 Morgan Moses

BOTTOM LINE

 Long-limbed left tackle who has the physical traits that teams want from their blind-side protector, but who is missing some of the body control and balance that is needed to succeed at his position. Despite his balance inconsistencies, Johnson can be a powerful run blocker when he gets defenders framed up. Teams will have to decide if they want to play him on the left or right side, but an offensive line coach will need to try and correct issues with his pass sets and his footwork before he gets his shot.

Johnson, a 6-foot-7, 298-pound offensive tackle received the ACC Jacobs Blocking Trophy and named to the All-ACC First Team last season. The Browns moved up to get Johnson trading to the New York Jets their No. 181 and 188 picks, while getting back No. 224 in the seventh round.

 

Strengths:

  • Ideal left tackle size
  • Excellent length
  • Good quickness on the edge
  • Very athletic
  • Quick feet
  • Agile
  • Natural build
  • Quick to the second level
  • Good fit in a zone-blocking scheme
  • Extremely long arms (36 inches)
  • Upside

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2017rjohnson.php#haK2SsyXRjD1pewy.99

Browns sign Greg Robinson, waive Rod Johnson

6/19/2018 11:01:03 AM

The Browns added another potential tackle option on Tuesday, signing Greg Robinson, Dan Labbe of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. They waived Rod Johnson to make room.

Robinson was drafted by the St. Louis Rams with the second overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.  After three seasons with the Rams, he was traded to the Lions prior to the 2017 season but was released by last November.

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On 6/7/2018 at 7:50 AM, BCJet said:

There is no such thing as simply outbidding teams anymore, almost everyone has cap space now that there is a rookie cap.  Tennessee is not going to let lewan go, hes too young and good.

Marpet is a different story and definitely someone to potentially target as the Bucs invested heavily in Ryan Jensen and dont have much space.

There are 2 other things to consider when looking at drafting Oline.

1.  Its real hard to develop guys given the college offenses and lack of practice time once they get to the league.  Oline is arguably the best position to spend on in FA because you get a known commodity.  Personally I would have liked Jensen over Long, but Long is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over johnson who was quite possible the worst center in the league last year.

2.  With a true zone scheme, which Dennison is bringing here, you should not need elite olineman to succeed.  A player like Andy Levitre is a key example. He was excellent in a zone scheme and was signed to a big contract by Tennessee where he "failed".  He was then picked up by atlanta, placed back in a zone scheme that suited his skills and went back to being a good starter.  We should be able to use our 2019 first rounder on an edge rusher and hopefully sign one big FA lineman and continue to develop guys that fit the scheme.

The bolded is not really true. We couldn't simply outbid other teams because of our team/GM/HC's reputation around the league, where we sign high priced players and then turn stars into garbage and then release them into FA with their careers in tatters.

The high-priced player who did sign with us knew it would be his last big contract, and that he wasn't likely to see $13m+ by year 3 of a new contract with anybody. In his case, he might as well follow the money. But if there was a perception that he'd still be worth ~$12m in year 3, he may have signed elsewhere for less because (3x12.5) > ((2x14) + 5). That's what happened with the younger FAs who figured they'd still be in high demand in 2020 and beyond (Cousins, Norwell, Robinson -- all 3 turned us down despite us being the high bidder) so long as they stayed away from here. My hope - like everyone here - is this perception changes with Darnold. 

To your 2 other points:

1. I agree with this, except for LT. Unfortunately, good young LTs don't hit FA (and it's uncommon at center); look how much Solder got at age 30. However it is absolutely a good way to get a sure thing, if not someone elite outright, at both/either guard positions plus RT without spending in the high teens per year or more. 

2. Yes and no; it depends on the player. While Levitre is an example of one side of that coin, our own Carpenter is an example of the other. He's trash in zone blocking but he's better than expected when he gets to engage on just 1 guy. He was bad last year here, and was considered a relative bust when he was with Seattle through 2014. The two years he looked good were when he was more or less exclusively man-blocking in 2015 and 2016. It's nothing more than desirous hope that Winters doesn't suffer the same fate, even though his health is conveniently being used as an excuse for every bad play last year. 

Point is more that 1st rounders (and high 2nd rounders) are hard to come by. Use them on players that are hard to come by in free agency and later in the draft (i.e. not a DT, a WR who usually only caught 1-2 passes a game, a LB-S hybrid, followed by two more safeties). You do it that way and then that's why it takes a GM 5+ years to rebuild into a realistic contender. 

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On 6/19/2018 at 12:12 PM, C Mart said:

OT Johnson was a 2017 5th round pick. Raw...Might be worth a look...It'd be a grand slam if Jets think enough of Garcia and Johnson to bring aboard, find a way to keep on 53 man, and develop for 2018 season.

2017 DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 3-4

Browns sign Greg Robinson, waive Rod Johnson

6/19/2018 11:01:03 AM

The Browns added another potential tackle option on Tuesday, signing Greg Robinson, Dan Labbe of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. They waived Rod Johnson to make room.

Robinson was drafted by the St. Louis Rams with the second overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.  After three seasons with the Rams, he was traded to the Lions prior to the 2017 season but was released by last November.

Pretty sure Houston’s claim would take priority over Jets, if Jets put a claim in.  

 

Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL)

6/20/18, 8:28 PM

Texans claim Roderick Johnson, cut Kendall Calhoun houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/… via ⁦‪@HoustonChron‬⁩

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On 6/6/2018 at 3:39 PM, Vince said:

Discussion on the Jets offensive line. Comments, concerns...admonishments? 

Depends on whether along can stay healthy and if Winters bounces back. Even so, the line is mediocre at best. I think Darnold will make it look better than it actually is

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The jets have invested less draft wise in the oline than any other team in the league since mac took over.  It's a short sighted disgrace and it is repeating the failure of houston when he was there with carr.

Oh we can make do, these guys are good enough two years alter after the franchise QB has had his ass kicked foe two years they will clue in that you have to draft good olineman not try and free agency them.

They have used big fa dollars at CB and have still draft lots of cbs.  We have drafted WRS and now we have a dozen competing for jobs,  We have prioritized fing safety and ilb over the oline.

As I've said before the oline is a giant house of cards ready to implode with one bad year or one injury.

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It’s almost like our 3 in the middle are built for a power-O, and our 2 outside can operate the ZBS. It’ll be interesting to see if we attempt a hybrid blocking scheme that has power inside runs, and zone stretch concepts on the outside.

It’s so crazy, it might just work. 

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