RESNewYork Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said: That is exactly right. Yet Todd Bowles fired the OC for over achieving with his unit, why Bowles once again under achieved with his. Bowles wants to take us back to the dark ages and run the ball, pass conservatively. Why Morton was fired. Well Morton is still available. Maybe the timing of his firing is the reason. Maybe next season he will be the hot O coordinator. Either way, he's still looking for work. Or maybe the reason he was fired was something more than simply he didn't run the ball enough. Could it be Bates proved what he can do last season, got promoted, and they felt Bates was the better coach going forward for a young QB? Maybe Morton isn't a bad coach, but Bates is a better coach for Darnold, or whichever young QB we got in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 If Sam is ready, start him week 1, but not because he's going the savior right now. Growing pains are inevitable, better to allow him to go through that now than wait until next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 13 hours ago, New York Mick said: Why rush it? Let Bridges start for a few weeks if he’s doing good keep him as the starter then trade him. If he shows himself to be the best QB in camp and preseason, he should play. If you start someone else knowing that Darnold is better, it is as if you are conceding the season. I am not in favor of conceding this is a "development" year for the team. If they think he is better, why not throw him in and try to win right away? (If does not win the job, sit him.) I bet his coach at USC wishes that he didn't wait till the fourth game his freshman year to start him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 39 minutes ago, BCJet said: Hahahaha word play - super funny stuff, what a writer you are. So in Denver he and Dennison shared the 3 titles of OC, QB coach and Oline coach with Dennison as the OC, Bates called the plays and installed the passing game plan and Dennison installed the running game and ran the Oline. With the Jets he and Dennison will share the 3 titles of OC, QB coach and Oline coach, Bates will call plays and install the passing game plan and has Dennison who will install the running game and run the Oline. Yea - i think Seattle seems like a better comparison...... so you think that if they hold the same job then instantly they will have the same results? lol ok lets agree to disagree......for now we can put a pin in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: If he shows himself to be the best QB in camp and preseason, he should play. If you start someone else knowing that Darnold is better, it is as if you are conceding the season. I am not in favor of conceding this is a "development" year for the team. If they think he is better, why not throw him in and try to win right away? (If does not win the job, sit him.) I bet his coach at USC wishes that he didn't wait till the fourth game his freshman year to start him. Play whoever is the best but don’t start Darnold just to start him. There’s no rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 5 hours ago, slats said: He'd avoid the worst part of the schedule, three games in 11 days, 3/4 on the road, all while the new offense and zone blocking scheme work their kinks out. I don't think that's a bad plan at all. Teddy is the least likely of the three QBs to start a game for the Jets this year. Opening day, it's already down to McCown vs. Darnold. Look at the rep numbers in practice; Darnold gets the most overall and a bunch with the starters, McCown gets all of his with the starters, and Bridgewater gets what's left. He's not in the conversation. If he is our best player, why would we want him to miss our first few games? If he isn't, he needs the time on the bench anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, jetspenguin said: so you think that if they hold the same job then instantly they will have the same results? lol ok lets agree to disagree......for now we can put a pin in that. When did I ever say they would have better results? Considering in 2008 they finished second in yards, the answer would be no - i dont think we will have the number 1 or 2 offense in the entire league. What ive said is that your statement that the 2010 seahawks are a more accurate representation of what our offense will look like the the 2008 Broncos are is not correct. Keep backtracking though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, BCJet said: When did I ever say they would have better results? Considering in 2008 they finished second in yards, the answer would be no - i dont think we will have the number 1 or 2 offense in the entire league. What ive said is that your statement that the 2010 seahawks are a more accurate representation of what our offense will look like the the 2008 Broncos are is not correct. Keep backtracking though I'm not backtracking, you are changing what you are saying and it isnt accurate. I said his results may be closer to what he produced the last time he has this job. YOU are saying that his results are more likely to resemble when he had lesser responsibilities. The only thing that resembles what the 2008 Broncos did is the composition of the staff, nothing more, nothing less. You are just fishing and hoping at this point. and I didnt say you said the results would be better...I asked if you think they will be the same....READING IS FUNDAMENTAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Well Morton is still available. Maybe the timing of his firing is the reason. Maybe next season he will be the hot O coordinator. Either way, he's still looking for work. Or maybe the reason he was fired was something more than simply he didn't run the ball enough. Could it be Bates proved what he can do last season, got promoted, and they felt Bates was the better coach going forward for a young QB? Maybe Morton isn't a bad coach, but Bates is a better coach for Darnold, or whichever young QB we got in the draft? It’s a nice story what you propose. Bates being the perfect coach for darnold. He was a qb coach, so obviously he is good at that job. That doesn’t mean he is going to be a good OC for darnold. We shall see. Nobody was trying to wooo Bates to be their OC, just the jets. If Todd Bowles was fired, he would be available right now too.. Bates was available quite a long time after he got canned in Denver. I do think not many respectable OCs would work under a DC who wants to tell the OC how to run an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelenOfTroy Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, flgreen said: What really sucks is that for the next 6 weeks or so the coaches can't even talk to Darnold. He has to hire a private guy like Palmer to help him prep for camp. Darnold seems like the kind of guy who would love to spend the next 6 weeks making Bates crazy with questions. This CBA rule is goofy. If a young guy wants to work, let him work. The only players the rule benefits are the vets. it makes it a lot harder for aggressive rookies to improve and take their jobs. It's one of the main reasons it's so hard to develop a QB in the NFL right now. He'll be working with Jordan, plus he will likely work out at USC with WRs JuJu and Nelson Agholar, who played a big role in the Super Bowl win for the Eagles), not only do a lot of our guys come back to USC to work out, but so does a lot of world class athletes. Ideally, it would be better if his Jets' WRs were out here with him, but he will have opportunity to work out with NFL athletes. Our new young gun frosh QB in the first PRP Tuesday, threw to visitors Terrell Owens and Julio Jones. We have so many NFL stars, entertainers and stars in every sport work out at USC, the school uses a hashtag #OnlyAtUSC. I'll be happy to report anything I hear about Sam's workouts out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Beerfish said: And a 100 year vet will always be better than a rookie, always I think this year may be the exception to the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: This is the best argument for me. Otherwise I'd say if it's even close he should just start and get as many lumps in this season as he can. Also two of those first three games we're the only NFL game on, so the whole country would be fixated on him. Plenty of those games are going to happen, but first and third games of his career are a bit rough. I'd say the Cleveland one should be easier because it's Cleveland, but they've made a bunch of moves and it's half-expected that any decent QB should throw for 300 yds and 2-3 TDs against them (even though it didn't happen once last year because there was no need). I take for granted that an experienced QB like McCown is going to have a huge advantage just because nothing has been new to him for well over a decade. So if Darnold's even really close by the end of the summer that's close enough since he's the only one of the two will get better beyond that. I'm generally of the opinion that he (or any young QB) shouldn't be held back unless he's so raw he just looks lost out there, where all he's going to accomplish is getting hit and hit and starting to develop & reinforce bad habits that are hard to undo once they've taken root (especially hard to undo once the season is underway and he has to focus on gameplans not reinforcing the basics). 1 The bold is a good point, and an interesting one because while Darnold sitting a few weeks might be beneficial to his development, Darnold (and Mayfield) playing is much better for the league and its TV partners. I wonder if there would be any pressure from the league to play the kids. Even just a little nudging. 16 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: If he shows himself to be the best QB in camp and preseason, he should play. If you start someone else knowing that Darnold is better, it is as if you are conceding the season. I am not in favor of conceding this is a "development" year for the team. If they think he is better, why not throw him in and try to win right away? (If does not win the job, sit him.) I bet his coach at USC wishes that he didn't wait till the fourth game his freshman year to start him. A couple reasons... One, I think there is some benefit to sitting on the bench for a rookie QB just to get the flow of the game, the ins and outs, talking to the coaches and other QBs about each down, etc. I also -absolutely- think that benefit has an expiration date, where the youngster starts rotting rather than getting anything positive out of it. That's why I specifically talk about... Two, the Jets have a rough start to their schedule, with that three games in 11 days and 3/4 on the road. All while a new offense and new zone blocking scheme are getting the bugs out. Really, the #1 reason to not rush Darnold out there is that the OL might not be ready to adequately protect him. Letting the ultra-experienced vet help settle in the new offense for a few weeks, also not a terrible idea. I don't think that qualifies as conceding the season. That said, I believe the Jets are doing all they can to prepare Darnold to be the Day One starter, and I'll be excited to watch if they do. He's the most talented QB the team has, it's really about him -and the whole offense- being ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 47 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Well Morton is still available. Maybe the timing of his firing is the reason. Maybe next season he will be the hot O coordinator. Either way, he's still looking for work. Or maybe the reason he was fired was something more than simply he didn't run the ball enough. Could it be Bates proved what he can do last season, got promoted, and they felt Bates was the better coach going forward for a young QB? Maybe Morton isn't a bad coach, but Bates is a better coach for Darnold, or whichever young QB we got in the draft? 2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said: It’s a nice story what you propose. Bates being the perfect coach for darnold. He was a qb coach, so obviously he is good at that job. That doesn’t mean he is going to be a good OC for darnold. We shall see. Nobody was trying to wooo Bates to be their OC, just the jets. If Todd Bowles was fired, he would be available right now too.. Bates was available quite a long time after he got canned in Denver. I do think not many respectable OCs would work under a DC who wants to tell the OC how to run an offense. Did I say perfect? I just said better. Bates turned down offers during his 4 year sabbatical. Morton is unemployed. Really just gave an opinion since Bates was promoted and Morton was released. I assume it's because the organization felt better with Bates knowing they were going to bring in a new high pick QB. It's probably more realistic to think that than simply saying Morton was fired because he didn't run the ball enough. So OCs just work in a vacuum? No collaboration? All the "respectable" OCs in the league ignore the HC. Though maybe you're right. Morton will be someone's OC next season, light it up, and Jet fans will cry about Morton getting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Bates was not available "quite a long time after he got canned in Denver." He was calling plays for Pete Carroll at USC the following season. Carroll took him along to be OC of the Seahawks in 2010. Pretty sure Shanahan would have taken him along, but Shanahan spent 2009 out of football. After Carroll fired him and hired Bevell, he took a year off and then went back to QB coach for Cutler in Chicago. It is after Trestman took over and fired Lovie Smith's staff that he ended up out of the league for an extended period. He might have been better served by rejoining Shanahan in a reduced capacity and just waiting to move back up, but with Kyle and McVay on staff it was probably going to take forever to regain prodigy status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 58 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Well Morton is still available. Maybe the timing of his firing is the reason. Maybe next season he will be the hot O coordinator. Either way, he's still looking for work. Or maybe the reason he was fired was something more than simply he didn't run the ball enough. Could it be Bates proved what he can do last season, got promoted, and they felt Bates was the better coach going forward for a young QB? Maybe Morton isn't a bad coach, but Bates is a better coach for Darnold, or whichever young QB we got in the draft? My personal opinion is that, for the most part, good QBs make OCs look good and bad QBs make OCs look bad. Bates is probably going to end up looking good, whether he deserves to or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 With Bates' qualifications and sporadic resume as part of the discussion here, I thought I'd post this article from last year that touches on both: After conquering 3,000-mile trail, coach faces new challenge: Jets QBs "It was the right time for me to step aside, find out some things about myself and have the opportunity to do some things outside football," Jeremy Bates said of his four-year absence from the game. Photo courtesy of Beverly Bates Jul 27, 2017 Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer Facebook Twitter Facebook Messenger Pinterest Email print comment After more than 30 years in the family business, Jeremy Bates needed to get away. Burned out by football, perhaps disillusioned by the cutthroat nature of the NFL, the one-time rising star in the coaching ranks bolted after the 2012 season. Only 36, he disappeared from the football landscape for four years, losing touch with some of his closest friends in the game. "What the hell is Jeremy up to?" Jon Gruden, his first NFL boss, often asked Jim Bates, Jeremy's father and a retired coach. ADVERTISEMENT Jeremy went from the Chicago Bears to the grizzly bears of Montana. During his sabbatical, he spent five months hiking the 3,000-mile Continental Divide Trail. With a 40-pound backpack, he walked on two surgically repaired knees from New Mexico to Colorado to Wyoming to Idaho to Montana to Canada. He endured blizzards, lightning storms at high elevation and the ever-present danger of rattlesnakes and bears. Only 200 people a year navigate the CDT, and he did it alone. It was a harrowing time for his family, which heard from him every week or so. He grew a beard and a ponytail -- "his mountain man look," his father said -- straying from the image of the clean-cut football prodigy who impressed coaching heavyweights Gruden and Mike Shanahan with his work ethic and X's and O's acumen. Maybe he had lost his way. A map got him from New Mexico to Canada, but sometimes people need to find themselves even when they're on a marked trail. "Football is a 24/7 commitment and he just needed some time off," Jim Bates said. "When he first walked away, it was real tough on him, but I think it really helped him. I think he's really matured and he appreciates the game that much more. ... It was a very, very valuable time for Jeremy, and he's real excited to be on the football field again." Now 40 and clean-shaven, Bates came down from the mountains, so to speak, to coach the New York Jets' quarterbacks for Todd Bowles, who plucked him out of the thin air to preside over the development of Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty. If Bates thought 15 to 20 miles a day on the CDT was a challenge ... well, this is the NFL version of Mount Everest. The polarizing Hackenberg, whom the organization hopes can win the starting job ASAP, has yet to take a regular-season snap. His mechanics were a mess when he came out of Penn State, and he spent his rookie season on the bench, languishing on the scout team. Job No. 1 for Bates is to fix Hackenberg. "Can this kid throw the ball like he did as a freshman at Penn State? Can he regain his confidence? I don't know, nobody knows," said Gruden, who hired Bates as a quality-control assistant for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002. "Is there enough talent in New York to find a quarterback right now? I don't know, but if there is, Jeremy will develop it. That's what I do know." From the fast track to crashing out Gruden and Shanahan are huge fans of the former wonder boy, who worked three years for each coach. Bates was the Denver Broncos' quarterbacks coach when Jay Cutler made the Pro Bowl in 2008, dazzling Shanahan with his knowledge of defenses and pass-protection schemes. Shanahan was fired after the season, so Bates joined Pete Carroll at USC and followed him a year later to the Seattle Seahawks. Bates was an offensive coordinator at 34, seemingly on the fast track to becoming a head coach, but he was fired after one season -- a playoff year, no less. There was reported strife between Bates and offensive line coach Alex Gibbs; Carroll, in an out-of-character move, sent Bates packing. After sitting out a year while getting paid by the Seahawks, Bates reunited with Cutler, this time in Chicago. It was another one-and-done, as the Bears cleaned house despite a 10-6 record. Bates, known for his intensity, chafed some people in the organization, a source said. Former Bucs quarterback Shaun King, recalling their days in Tampa, told the Chicago Tribune that Bates "had that cocky, I-know-more-than-you attitude. We would give him a hard time about that." With a 40-pound backpack, Jeremy Bates walked on two surgically repaired knees from New Mexico to Colorado to Wyoming to Idaho to Montana to Canada. Photo courtesy of Beverly Bates Bates headed for the hills, deciding to explore another meaning of the word "hike." In addition to the CDT, he tackled the 2,200-mile Appalachian Trail last year. Why the detachment? "That's a good question," he said last month. "There were a couple of things going on at the time. I don't think you can mess with your life's journey, if you will. I think at the time it was the right time for me to step aside, find out some things about myself and have the opportunity to do some things outside football." It was the first time he was away from football. He had played quarterback in high school and went on to Rice University after a one-year stop at Tennessee, where he was Peyton Manning's teammate. Actually, his education began long before college. Because of his father, who coached at seven colleges and for seven NFL teams, Bates grew up around the game. He was a 3-year-old ball boy at Texas Tech, sleeping in the dorms during summer camp and hanging around at practice. At 17, he was a ball boy for the Cleveland Browns, whose quarterback, Vinny Testaverde, became his pupil when he coached the Jets' quarterbacks in 2005 under Herm Edwards. In a way, Bates has been victimized by bad timing, as he walked into three one-and-done coaching situations. It's the ugly part of the business, and it took a toll on him. Before hiring him, Bowles wanted to make sure his head was in it. After all, a four-year absence is practically a generation in the NFL. "You have to see if he has the desire to come back, why he left, why he wants to come back, where he is mentally," Bowles said. "Then you have to make an executive decision. Jeremy was all the things I was looking for." Always a hunch he would return Coaches and players describe Bates as bright, meticulous, demanding and direct. He already has a comfort level with new offensive coordinator John Morton, as they worked together on Carroll's staff at USC. Josh McCown said Bates tweaked his footwork in 2012, when they were together in Chicago. Bates taught him to throw from a shoulder-width base, improving his velocity. That adjustment, McCown said, "helped propel me to play into my late 30s because I felt like I got a little more juice on the ball. I give him a lot of credit." Hackenberg, who has struggled with accuracy, revamped his footwork and showed signs of improvement in the spring. The Jets hope it's the Bates Effect. "This guy knows what he’s talking about," Gruden said. "This guy is a hard-ass guy, he’s a tough guy. He’s not going to let you step with your right foot if he wants you to step with your left foot. If he wants a little stagger in your feet, have your feet staggered. If he wants you to read a progression this way, you'd better read it that way or he's going to jump your ass." While away from the game, Bates lived in Colorado and was into snowboarding. As for football, he didn't go cold turkey. He did his own "projects," according to his father, exercises that involved breaking down game tape. He also attended a couple of camps with Shanahan, who always had a hunch Bates would return to coaching. "It's not going to take long for Jeremy to get back into the swing of things," Shanahan said. "He was a very bright guy who was always on top of his game. To get a guy like Jeremy, with his background and his mentality of X's and O's, I think they got themselves a pretty special guy. He'll be at the top of the food chain when it's all done." Bates, in his only media availability since being hired, was reluctant to talk in detail about his four-year hiatus. He wants to focus on now. He's reunited with his first love, hoping he can scale new mountains. "At the end of the day, I think it made me a better person," he said. "I think it made me a better teacher. I look forward to being a coach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Did I say perfect? I just said better. Bates turned down offers during his 4 year sabbatical. Morton is unemployed. Really just gave an opinion since Bates was promoted and Morton was released. I assume it's because the organization felt better with Bates knowing they were going to bring in a new high pick QB. It's probably more realistic to think that than simply saying Morton was fired because he didn't run the ball enough. So OCs just work in a vacuum? No collaboration? All the "respectable" OCs in the league ignore the HC. Though maybe you're right. Morton will be someone's OC next season, light it up, and Jet fans will cry about Morton getting away. Lol. I don’t know what Bates turned down during his journey in mountains. Im sure Morton turned down offers too. He was a WR coach for a while for 1 of the best offenses in nfl year in year out. I’m worried Bates he hasn’t really called a game in a long time. Never had that great of a resume to begin with. But I am relieved that Todd Bowles won’t be allowed to pick his 4th OC in as many years if Bates doesn’t work out. So Bowles is better his job on Bates. I think Bates will be more a yes Man because he has been off the map for most teams. Let’s hope it all works out. Maybe strong qb play by McCown and darnold will help him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 6 hours ago, slats said: He'd avoid the worst part of the schedule, three games in 11 days, 3/4 on the road, all while the new offense and zone blocking scheme work their kinks out. I don't think that's a bad plan at all. Teddy is the least likely of the three QBs to start a game for the Jets this year. Opening day, it's already down to McCown vs. Darnold. Look at the rep numbers in practice; Darnold gets the most overall and a bunch with the starters, McCown gets all of his with the starters, and Bridgewater gets what's left. He's not in the conversation. It's not really three games in 11 days since the first is opening day on 11 days rest and the 4 day rest for Thursday is something all QBs have to do, so preparing for that is a fantastic learning experience. Plus his mobility is actually an advantage for the team as the offensive line grows and gels so his chance to succeed there is better too. Unless he is overwhelmed by learning the playbook (which Bates suggested yesterday was opposite of what he was doing) or he shows an inability to handle the rush in preseason games I think there is literally no reason not to give Darnold all the experience he can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 16 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said: If hes the best guy, he plays week 1. If not, McCown will be in there until Sam is ready. yup !.. ...& then we'll see - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, johnnysd said: It's not really three games in 11 days since the first is opening day on 11 days rest and the 4 day rest for Thursday is something all QBs have to do, so preparing for that is a fantastic learning experience. Plus his mobility is actually an advantage for the team as the offensive line grows and gels so his chance to succeed there is better too. Unless he is overwhelmed by learning the playbook (which Bates suggested yesterday was opposite of what he was doing) or he shows an inability to handle the rush in preseason games I think there is literally no reason not to give Darnold all the experience he can get. Well, it is three games in 11 days because they play three games over an eleven-day span. That means short weeks of preparation in his 2nd and 3rd career NFL starts. Not sure that's fantastic experience. He'll have to experience that eventually, of course, but there's not a huge reason to start his career like that with 2/3 of those games on the road. Starting him week #5 would put him in front of the home crowd for three straight Sundays. Typical preparation time in front of a very friendly and supportive audience after allowing the new offense and new OL and new zone blocking scheme to settle in. I understand that Darnold has the mobility to work behind a less-than-stellar line, but that doesn't mean they should put their crown jewel back there if the OL is still missing assignments. I'm excited to see Darnold start, too, but I find it hard to argue that sitting those four games couldn't/wouldn't be beneficial to him, or that getting full weeks of preparation at home for his opening three games as a starter wouldn't be optimal. As I've already said, if they decide to start Darold on opening day, I'll be tuned in and excited to watch. If he's blowing away the other QBs by the end of training camp, that's what they should do. If it's close, and/or he's struggling with protections or the OL isn't quite there yet, that fifth game of the season looks like the sweet spot to me for him to debut as the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 54 minutes ago, slats said: Two, the Jets have a rough start to their schedule, with that three games in 11 days and 3/4 on the road. All while a new offense and new zone blocking scheme are getting the bugs out. Really, the #1 reason to not rush Darnold out there is that the OL might not be ready to adequately protect him. Letting the ultra-experienced vet help settle in the new offense for a few weeks, also not a terrible idea. I don't think that qualifies as conceding the season. and there it is........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, slats said: The bold is a good point, and an interesting one because while Darnold sitting a few weeks might be beneficial to his development, Darnold (and Mayfield) playing is much better for the league and its TV partners. I wonder if there would be any pressure from the league to play the kids. Even just a little nudging. That occurred to me as well, but I have to believe even these morons wouldn't give a crap about one night of potentially higher ratings, weighed against a 21 year-old's career development. Plus while I'm sure both teams believe in their young QBs, they also know there's only going to be one winner and who wants the pressure of their guy looking like the wrong pick, even if only temporarily. They should let that stuff slide. Play him if he can handle it, and bench him if he can't. He's played on national TV plenty of times already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 5 hours ago, flgreen said: What really sucks is that for the next 6 weeks or so the coaches can't even talk to Darnold. He has to hire a private guy like Palmer to help him prep for camp. Darnold seems like the kind of guy who would love to spend the next 6 weeks making Bates crazy with questions. This CBA rule is goofy. If a young guy wants to work, let him work. The only players the rule benefits are the vets. it makes it a lot harder for aggressive rookies to improve and take their jobs. It's one of the main reasons it's so hard to develop a QB in the NFL right now. bates should resign as the OC of the Jets to work full on with Sam - and then get the job again in a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 4 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said: I would love for this to happen and hope that is part of the plan especially with McCown working with him over next few weeks. I know the rules are strict for the offseason but hopefully Uncle Josh is earning his $10 million during the off-season and working with Darnold. That would be incredible and genius which is why it’s probably not happening unfortunately. i don't really understand the Jets overpaying for mediocre Vet QB when the next bid is significantly lower. Josh would have taken 5mm with incentives to get him to 10mm if he played the entire season. 5mm with 250k per game starter incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, batman10023 said: bates should resign as the OC of the Jets to work full on with Sam - and then get the job again in a month. of all my posts this silly one gets a "butt fumble". lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 8 hours ago, BCJet said: This is not a big deal in 2018. For one, Darnold has the entire playbook and can literally script 6 weeks worth of workouts with Bates, hand them to Palmer and have palmer run him through his drills. Then he can work on the playbook as much as he can alone, and god willing, he and McCown can get 10+ days to sit together and go over the playbook, audibles, etc together since Mccown isnt a coach. The next 6 weeks should be about terminology and mechanics so that he is ready to roll for TC. Yes it would be nice to do it with Bates, but Palmer is fine. Yeah, Bates gave him home work. The difference between homework and having access to his position coach is like the the difference between going to Community College, or Yale. Dan Leberfeld @jetswhispers 44m44 minutes ago More "This whole collective [bargaining agreement]. How do you develop a quarterback? I don't know how you do it." - Jon Gruden on lack of practice time hurting young QB development (ESPN). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 I'm not really that surprised and I think Bates means it. The expectation when they drafted him was that he was going to be a superior Qb and I see no problem giving him immediate playing time. I'm usually against this for a rookie Qb esp with two good vet Qbs on the roster. But if he is ready why not. I want to see if like in college he can bring his team back in a game. How he reacts under pressure etc. I'm willing to take a few bumps along the way. There will be picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Jets are willing to put Sam Darnold on fast track to starting QB job Steve Popper, NorthJerseyPublished 5:15 p.m. ET June 13, 2018 | Updated 6:29 p.m. ET June 13, 2018 Jets Head Coach, Todd Bowles, talks to the media about trash talk and not hitting the quarterback during certain practices. Wednesday, June 13, 2018 Kevin R. Wexler/NorthJersey.com CONNECTTWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE FLORHAM PARK - The easy move for the Jets is to arm Sam Darnold with a clipboard and a headset, point him to a spot a few feet behind the coaching staff and let him take his time learning his place in the National Football League. It is the safe move, allowing the just turned 21-year-old quarterback to watch and learn, safely providing hope for the fan base of a better future. But, while still a long way away, just two days into minicamp with plenty of time before training camp and preseason and then the Jets’ opening game in Detroit on Sept. 10, it’s worth noting that the Jets aren’t committed to that safe route. While the team quickly cleared out the end of the bench pieces, Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg, there is a capable veteran to guide Darnold’s progress in Josh McCown and a wild card in Teddy Bridgewater, who is making his way back from a devastating knee injury and has shown signs that he is back and capable of playing again. Photos: Day 2 of Jets Minicamp But just as the Jets opted for action rather than patience in trading up to the No. 3 spot in the draft to chase a quarterback, there is an open mind to throwing the rookie directly into the fire. “I don’t want to speak for the coach,” Jets offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates said. “He makes the final decisions, of course. But we’re here to play the best football players that give us the chance to win on Sunday.” The decision holds a risk for both Darnold and the coaching staff. As long as they are keeping Darnold on hold there is a bullet in their gun, protecting them, a promise of a bright future just a short wait away. And for Darnold, a prospect with potential that the Jets haven’t seen since Joe Namath limped away, time is on his side. But on the heels of a pair of 5-11 seasons head coach Todd Bowles can’t be blamed for putting the best players on the field, no matter the risk. “He made some good throws,” Bowles said. “I mean, again, it’s two-hand touch. He made some good throws. He’s learning some things. It’s a process. He’s throwing the ball well. He’s learning every day. He’s gaining some confidence, as is Teddy and Josh and we just keep it moving. We just want him to play fast once training camp comes, so he’s taking in a lot right now and he’s handling it well. “He’s right where we thought he was. Obviously, putting in installs every day, he’s going to be learning, he’s going to be learning when we get to training camp. But he applies it well, he rarely makes the same mistake twice and we’re pleased with where he is.” Darnold has made it through rookie minicamp and 10 voluntary OTAs and now the start of mandatory minicamp, and he has impressed coaches and teammates by his work ethic, working hard to master the playbook rather than coast on his talent. And the Jets have not made it easy, choosing to throw the entire playbook at him instead of opting to ease him into the offensive schemes. He has had to adjust to a different style of play, learning to play under center and to run a huddle, but Bates said that there has been no slow curve. “We threw the whole playbook at him, just like the same as Josh and Teddy,” Bates said. “(If you) treat him like a rookie they’ll become a rookie. So we threw the whole book at him, see what he can handle, what he needs to work on, just like the other two. And he’s done a really good job. There’s a lot of information there.” Mistakes are made, but rarely the same one twice. “It’s extremely important,” Bates said. “If you keep making a mistake over and over either we’re not coaching the right way or teaching the right way, or they’re just not getting it. He’s able to go watch himself on film, see what he did wrong and move forward. That’s a process of growing. That’s exciting. He’s going to continue to make mistakes. Josh is going to make mistakes, Teddy is going to make mistakes, I’m going to make mistakes. But as long as you grow from the experience that’s how you move forward as a professional.” It might tell you something about Darnold that Bowles has taken this approach, giving the rookie more reps with the first team in camp than the veteran quarterbacks. Hackenberg never got a snap with the Jets, so just throwing a quarterback into the fire isn’t exactly his style. But Darnold is a far cry from Hackenberg as a prospect. Darnold impressed again Wednesday in practice, but it’s still a long way from opening night. “First and foremost I think growing as a quarterback for me, especially with a whole new offense and trying to learn everything that’s thrown at me,” Darnold said Tuesday. “I’m just really focused on becoming a better quarterback, and becoming a better quarterback in this system right now.” Exactly what he becomes will likely determine the success of the franchise and the fate of this coaching staff. “That’s what we do,” Bates said. “We’re teachers. We’re coaches. We try to make every player as good as they possibly can be. From the first guy to the last guy we want everyone to succeed. We want everyone to be successful. We want everyone to grow. That’s just the nature of the business.” Email: popper@northjersey.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 10 hours ago, jetspenguin said: No I knew that....but being the OC is more than just calling the plays. This guy is going to have a lot more responsibility and I hope he does well. Just saying...he isnt like some sooth sayer yet Now it's up to 32-year-old quarterback coach Jeremy Bates, who calls the plays into quarterback Jay Cutler's headset, with Shanahan having the option to overrule him. He rarely does. Shanahan might make a play call or trump Bates' call two or three times a game. The gameplan is a collaborative effort between offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who is responsible for run plays and protections, and Bates, who draws up the passes. Shanahan makes some suggestions during the week while the gameplan is being formulated, but it's mostly a Dennison/Bates production. Dennison and Bates also come up with the "First 18,'' Denver's version of the old Bill Walsh "First 15,'' when the first 18 offensive snaps of the game are set in stone (except if a third-and-inches call, for instance, has to be made). Dennison and Bates figure out which run plays and pass plays will work best each week against the defense they're playing, then list them by down-and-distance, print them on a laminated play sheet, and call the plays from that sheet on gameday. Bates makes the calls, a heavy responsibility for such a young coach. But it's a natural fit. Bates is the one meeting with Cutler all week and finding out what plays he thinks are the best fit for that week's opponent. It makes sense that the coach communicating with Cutler most one-on-one during the week is the one calling the plays into his helmet during games. So there you have it. According to King, and several other media outlets, Shanahan has very little to do with the game plan/playcalling. I guess I outta put that in my sig ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 10:51 PM, Jetsplayer21 said: A bone ? We got absolutely nothing for hackenberg. A trade for a conditional likely mid 7th round pick was not even worth the paper it was printed on. The entire point was for Macagnan to say he traded his second round pick instead of cutting him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 14 hours ago, Beerfish said: Bridgewater is not going to play at all unless there are huge injuries. And that’s bad how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Rangers9 said: I'm not really that surprised and I think Bates means it. The expectation when they drafted him was that he was going to be a superior Qb and I see no problem giving him immediate playing time. I'm usually against this for a rookie Qb esp with two good vet Qbs on the roster. But if he is ready why not. I want to see if like in college he can bring his team back in a game. How he reacts under pressure etc. I'm willing to take a few bumps along the way. There will be picks. We have two good vets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 19 hours ago, slats said: He'd avoid the worst part of the schedule, three games in 11 days, 3/4 on the road, all while the new offense and zone blocking scheme work their kinks out. I don't think that's a bad plan at all. Teddy is the least likely of the three QBs to start a game for the Jets this year. Opening day, it's already down to McCown vs. Darnold. Look at the rep numbers in practice; Darnold gets the most overall and a bunch with the starters, McCown gets all of his with the starters, and Bridgewater gets what's left. He's not in the conversation. And how many reps did McClown get in preseason last year? Like 1. And who started and would have played every snap? McClown. It was a forgone conclusion last year he would start and it will be the same this year, McClown will start and I very much doubt Darnold sees the field until last quarter of the season. As far as Teddy is concerned I’d love to see What we could get for him in a draft pick. If he doesn’t play, who in their right mind would give up anything for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, BigO said: And how many reps did McClown get in preseason last year? Like 1. And who started and would have played every snap? McClown. It was a forgone conclusion last year he would start and it will be the same this year, McClown will start and I very much doubt Darnold sees the field until last quarter of the season. As far as Teddy is concerned I’d love to see What we could get for him in a draft pick. If he doesn’t play, who in their right mind would give up anything for him. I think the guy has earned the right from this fan base to not be referred to as “McClown” any longer. Plus everything else you are saying in this post is complete hogwash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 4 hours ago, BigO said: And how many reps did McClown get in preseason last year? Like 1. And who started and would have played every snap? McClown. It was a forgone conclusion last year he would start and it will be the same this year, McClown will start and I very much doubt Darnold sees the field until last quarter of the season. As far as Teddy is concerned I’d love to see What we could get for him in a draft pick. If he doesn’t play, who in their right mind would give up anything for him. We haven't gotten to the preseason yet. In spring practices last year, McCown got similar work to what he's gotten this year, maybe more, while Bridgewater is getting Petty-level work. Last year McCown played sparingly in the preseason, and it wouldn't surprie me to see the QBs split this preseason similarly, with McCown starting the opener, Darnold starting one or two games, and Bridgewater getting cleanup duty. Might see Bridgewater get better reps than Petty got last year if they have a trade suitor or two who want to see him showcased, but that's about it. He'll probably play at least 3/4 of the last preseason game while they protect Darnold and McCown. It comes down to this: Darnold is the future of this team and Bridgewater will not be here next year. They understand those two points even if some fans choose to block it out. I'd expect Darnold to take over as starter well before the last quarter mark, and give McCown better than 50-50 odds to return as his backup next year. I hope they get something for Teddy rather than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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