Dante Fowler in a Contract Year - Operation Complete the Defense 2019

[JustInFudge]

18 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Fowler and Ray both stink.  That's why neither of their respective teams want them.

Stay far away from both of these JAGS.

 

Shane Ray sucks, no doubt.  Fowler is baller.

8 sacks, 3 FF, 3 FR, and 1 TD - Jets fan would be lining up to give Fowler head for that production and he did that playing 44% of their defensive snaps.  Highest sack to snap ratio in the league.  Dude can ball and he's hitting his stride.  

 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, k-met57 said:

good teams are not built by overpaying for other teams rejects.

The Jets just paid for Trumaine Johnson, Avery Williams, Spencer Long, etc.

The Eagles basically built a Super Bowl team through FA; Jeffrey, Blount, Ajayi, Smith, Darby, Long, Graham, Jenkins, Bradham, Foles, etc.  

[k-met57]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

The Jets just paid for Trumaine Johnson, Avery Williams, Spencer Long, etc.

The Eagles basically built a Super Bowl team through FA; Jeffrey, Blount, Ajayi, Smith, Darby, Long, Graham, Jenkins, Bradham, Foles, etc.  

TJ was a guy who was franchised twice and is a top 5-10 player at this position in the league. Avery Williams and Long are cheap, with Long being on a 1 year deal. I would be much more comfortable throwing a boat full of cash at a true franchise player as opposed to backing up a small SUV for an underachiever like Dante Fowler. There are Dante Fowlers in the first few rounds of the draft at this production level.

[chrisfaceoff]

I like Fowler.  Ray I am not interested in at all.  Not even a little bit.

[JustInFudge]

45 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

TJ was a guy who was franchised twice and is a top 5-10 player at this position in the league. Avery Williams and Long are cheap, with Long being on a 1 year deal. I would be much more comfortable throwing a boat full of cash at a true franchise player as opposed to backing up a small SUV for an underachiever like Dante Fowler. There are Dante Fowlers in the first few rounds of the draft at this production level.

I dont know how often "true franchise" players hit FA but either way, you have to pay to play.  The Jets paid for TJ who I would argue isnt top 5-10 but either way, that's the NFL.  The Jets have 90 mil available and nobody to resign...they're going to be getting other teams "cast offs" just like they did this year and just like every single team in the NFL does during the FA period.  It's how this thing works.

I dont know if I would call Fowler and "underachiever" - maybe because he was the 3rd overall pick but he was IR'd in the preseason year 1.   The Jags slowed played him and he started balling toward the end of the 2016 season.  Anyone that was paying attention, new he was on the verge of breaking out.  And then he did...highest snap to sack ratio in the league.  3 FF, 3 FR, a TD...again, we'd be doing back flips for that, and no, you dont find that production in the first few rounds as easy as you're claiming...if that was the case, the Jets would be still looking to replace J.Abe.

 

 

[Jetster]

Can we draft our own pass rusher in 2019 please. We have our QB now lets draft a stud OLB & some beef for the Oline.

[slats]

45 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont know how often "true franchise" players hit FA but either way, you have to pay to play.  The Jets paid for TJ who I would argue isnt top 5-10 but either way, that's the NFL.  The Jets have 90 mil available and nobody to resign...they're going to be getting other teams "cast offs" just like they did this year and just like every single team in the NFL does during the FA period.  It's how this thing works.

I dont know if I would call Fowler and "underachiever" - maybe because he was the 3rd overall pick but he was IR'd in the preseason year 1.   The Jags slowed played him and he started balling toward the end of the 2016 season.  Anyone that was paying attention, new he was on the verge of breaking out.  And then he did...highest snap to sack ratio in the league.  3 FF, 3 FR, a TD...again, we'd be doing back flips for that, and no, you dont find that production in the first few rounds as easy as you're claiming...if that was the case, the Jets would be still looking to replace J.Abe.

7

Yup, you pay for that level of production in the rare instances when it free agency. For a player the other team has to account for on every passing down. The Jets have invested heavily in their secondary, a legit pass rush is the compliment that it needs. The key for the Jets is becoming a team free agents want to join, instead of one they use to up their asking price. Maybe (hopefully?) a defensive player is more inclined to come play for Bowles than the top QB in free agency, but the best way to attract FAs is to demonstrate that your team can already win games and that, perhaps, you appear to have a young franchise QB in house. 

As has also been stated, signing a guy like Fowler doesn't stop you from drafting another pass rusher round one next year if there's one there wearing the BAP label. You can't have enough of these guys. Free agency and a couple dips from picks 3-7 can build that OL. 

[GangGreen55]

11 hours ago, MykePM said:

Considering that he got those 8 sacks while playing only 44.8% of the Jaguars' defensive snaps last year, maybe you should.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2173899/dante-fowler

Good observation. My fear originally was if he lit it up this coming season he might price himself out of what the Jets would be willing to pay. However, after seeing Trumaine's contract, MacCagnan has shown he is willing to throw big money at a player if they deserve it...kudos to MacCagnan, as we know most Jets GM's previous to him were not so willing.

[GangGreen55]

24 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Can we draft our own pass rusher in 2019 please. We have our QB now lets draft a stud OLB & some beef for the Oline.

Couldn't agree more! However, if you look at previous drafts, top pass rushers are a rare commodity and usually go quickly/high in the draft. If we do have a good or great season (which I hope we do), we could take ourselves out of the running for the top edge rushers (unless we trade up which is entirely possible). The same go for OL as well, the best ones are known and usually go high. Doesn't mean we won't find one later in the draft, just unlikely.

 

Same also goes in free agency. Elite edge rushers and offensive lineman rarely hit the market.

[GangGreen55]

20 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

This is why I don’t mind overpaying for O-line. Draft tackles and use FA for interior lineman o-line with experience that are known commodities since college is ruining o-line play. Just my opinion of course. 

Unfortunately, elite and top OL rarely hit the FA market. Teams know they are rare commodities. Same goes for edge rushers.

[slats]

20 hours ago, BCJet said:

With respect to free agency in general though, the safest route for this team is going to be to resign some of the young playmakers IF they continue to develop and/or stay healthy.  Leo (a definite), Enunwa, Robby, and Kearse in particular all have the potential to be resigned and 2 of them paired with Hansen gives the WR corps talent and continuity which allows us to spend on other positions.  I simply dont think LT is going to be one of them as there are no players to pay (Lewan will not get out of tennessee).

3

With your IF in mind, I definitely agree that this should be a priority for the Jets, one they should think about addressing during the season. Robby Anderson will be a RFA, so he'd be the last guy I'd deal with. Just slap a first-round tender on him if he leads the team in receiving again (a little over $4M in 2018) and come back to him. If Enunwa not only demonstrates that he's 100% healthy, and the team doesn't believe his neck to be an issue in the future, and he looks like the guy the team hoped he was becoming before he went down, he should be the priority. Have to see how Hansen performs when the pads go on, but he, Enunwa, and Anderson could be a very good, young WR group to join with Darnold. I'd love to see Pryor perform to the level where they want to resign him, too. 

[slats]

10 minutes ago, GangGreen55 said:

Good observation. My fear originally was if he lit it up this coming season he might price himself out of what the Jets would be willing to pay. However, after seeing Trumaine's contract, MacCagnan has shown he is willing to throw big money at a player if they deserve it...kudos to MacCagnan, as we know most Jets GM's previous to him were not so willing. 

 

Lol, I don't if there's a GM in league history more willing to pay people than Mike Tannenbaum. 

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, GangGreen55 said:

Unfortunately, elite and top OL rarely hit the FA market. Teams know they are rare commodities. Same goes for edge rushers.

I thought interior O-line at least had a shot at hitting FA unlike offensive tackles but you are probably right and it will probably become less frequent now since the whole offensive line seems like it’s becoming a premium. 

[nycdan]

2019 looks loaded for pass rushers.  I think we need to strongly consider OL as well but we should be able to solve at least one of those problems.  Now if we can turn Teddy into a high pick, maybe we can solve both

 

[GangGreen55]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

2019 looks loaded for pass rushers.  I think we need to strongly consider OL as well but we should be able to solve at least one of those problems.  Now if we can turn Teddy into a high pick, maybe we can solve both

 

Good post. As of now, the 2019 class does looked loaded with edge rushers (both outside lineman and standing edge rush backers). Keep in mind, college season hasn't even started yet. Many of those guys could fall off or down that list, and some may choose not to declare. That being said, I REALLY hope we find a way to get Nick Bosa. Even if we have to trade to move up for him.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Yup, you pay for that level of production in the rare instances when it free agency. For a player the other team has to account for on every passing down. The Jets have invested heavily in their secondary, a legit pass rush is the compliment that it needs. The key for the Jets is becoming a team free agents want to join, instead of one they use to up their asking price. Maybe (hopefully?) a defensive player is more inclined to come play for Bowles than the top QB in free agency, but the best way to attract FAs is to demonstrate that your team can already win games and that, perhaps, you appear to have a young franchise QB in house. 

As has also been stated, signing a guy like Fowler doesn't stop you from drafting another pass rusher round one next year if there's one there wearing the BAP label. You can't have enough of these guys. Free agency and a couple dips from picks 3-7 can build that OL. 

This 100%.  The Jags already had a good pass rush.  They took another teams cast off, his name is Calais Campbelll and I think that worked out pretty well for them, they also added Barry Church last year...had the best D in the league.  Then they also drafted Taven Bryan, another pass rusher in the draft this year.  They get it, stack the cupboard filled with pass rushers because you can never have enough.

 

[GreenFish]

Let’s stop worrying about other team’s players and hoping our players step up. I, for one, think Obum Gwacham is ready to make that leap.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, k-met57 said:

TJ was a guy who was franchised twice and is a top 5-10 player at this position in the league. Avery Williams and Long are cheap, with Long being on a 1 year deal. I would be much more comfortable throwing a boat full of cash at a true franchise player as opposed to backing up a small SUV for an underachiever like Dante Fowler. There are Dante Fowlers in the first few rounds of the draft at this production level.

No he isn't. He's just paid like one.

We had money to burn, so why not, but even Rams fans who watched him every week and wanted him back don't think he's a top 5 corner. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

This 100%.  The Jags already had a good pass rush.  They took another teams cast off, his name is Calais Campbelll and I think that worked out pretty well for them, they also added Barry Church last year...had the best D in the league.  Then they also drafted Taven Bryan, another pass rusher in the draft this year.  They get it, stack the cupboard filled with pass rushers because you can never have enough.

 

Unbelievable hot streak by Idzik, tbh.

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Unbelievable hot streak by Idzik, tbh.

I saw him at Capital Grill the other day, his teeth are bigger in person than they are on TV and I always thought TV made things look bigger than they are.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I saw him at Capital Grill the other day, his teeth are bigger in person than they are on TV and I always thought TV made things look bigger than they are.

When you’re an apex predator, you get big teeth.

[#27TheDominator]

5 hours ago, JiF said:

The Jets just paid for Trumaine Johnson, Avery Williams, Spencer Long, etc.

The Eagles basically built a Super Bowl team through FA; Jeffrey, Blount, Ajayi, Smith, Darby, Long, Graham, Jenkins, Bradham, Foles, etc.  

 

4 hours ago, k-met57 said:

TJ was a guy who was franchised twice and is a top 5-10 player at this position in the league. Avery Williams and Long are cheap, with Long being on a 1 year deal. I would be much more comfortable throwing a boat full of cash at a true franchise player as opposed to backing up a small SUV for an underachiever like Dante Fowler. There are Dante Fowlers in the first few rounds of the draft at this production level.

Avery Williamson

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Let’s stop worrying about other team’s players and hoping our players step up. I, for one, think Obum Gwacham is ready to make that leap.

*Said by Seahawks fans (2015), Saints fans (2016) and Cardinals fans (2017)

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Avery Williamson

*Said by Seahawks fans (2015), Saints fans (2016) and Cardinals fans (2017)

Gwachum was a big SPARQ guy!

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Gwachum was a big SPARQ guy!

Not as big as you think.  He was like 25th.  Ranked 56th percentile at EDGE as a pro. Good length, but his speed and jumps were underwhelming. His 3cone was pretty horrid, but much better than Bud Dupree.  The guy the Giants drafted Odighizuwa was the monster.  Gwacham was expected to beast out because he converted from WR and played pretty well as a senior.  I was interested in him at the time.  Maybe he turns the corner.  He had a couple of sacks as a rookie, but basically no stats since.

[ljr]

31 minutes ago, JiF said:

I saw him at Capital Grill the other day, his teeth are bigger in person than they are on TV and I always thought TV made things look bigger than they are.

Hope you Bill Cosby'd some Metamucil into his drink to pay him back!

[IndianaJet]

3 hours ago, GangGreen55 said:

Good observation. My fear originally was if he lit it up this coming season he might price himself out of what the Jets would be willing to pay. However, after seeing Trumaine's contract, MacCagnan has shown he is willing to throw big money at a player if they deserve it...kudos to MacCagnan, as we know most Jets GM's previous to him were not so willing.

That 44% stat doesn't mean much when it comes to his sack numbers...sure, he may have only been on the field for 44% of the defensive snaps, but I would imagine the vast majority of those snaps came on passing downs.  Thus, while he may have only been on the field for 44% of the defensive snaps, I would bet 75% of that 44% were passing downs.

You just can't double his # of plays and assume the sack numbers are going to go up.

That being said, if he makes it to free agency, I would spend the money on him....we're gonna have $100 million again next year and if Darnold pans out, we don't have to worry about paying big QB money for close to 5 years.

[Bugg]

19 hours ago, MykePM said:

Considering that he got those 8 sacks while playing only 44.8% of the Jaguars' defensive snaps last year, maybe you should.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2173899/dante-fowler

Stats also reflect he played in all 16 games, which begs a bunch of questions that I don't have complete answers for. Did he get spelled like a lot of big DL guys do? Was he out of shape such they didn't play him except on passing downs? Or  was he known to take non pass downs off such they didn't play him then? It's intriguing, simply not sure you want to get back in bed with a possible nonhacker after you rightly got rid of 2 of those. But Fowler was at least productive when he did play. And pass rushers are hard to come by. 

[BigO]

On 6/14/2018 at 3:22 PM, Jetsplayer21 said:

As they are they FINALLY address the OL first and foremost. Now that we have a franchise qb, D has take a backseat for once.

Mac has enough money to sign an OLB like Fowler AND sign a top LT.  With picks 1and 3, we can get another G, LB or DE. 

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, BigO said:

Mac has enough money to sign an OLB like Fowler AND sign a top LT.  With picks 1and 3, we can get another G, LB or DE. 

We need to revamp 80% of the OL though. So not just 1 LT.. OL has great value in 2nd round. We should try to trade down, get 2 2nd rounders if possible and take 2 OL. Don’t think Mac will ever spend the $$$ for a decent OL in FA

[BigO]

21 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We need to revamp 80% of the OL though. So not just 1 LT.. OL has great value in 2nd round. We should try to trade down, get 2 2nd rounders if possible and take 2 OL. Don’t think Mac will ever spend the $$$ for a decent OL in FA

I’ll give you a high five ? for that move.

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, BigO said:

Mac has enough money to sign an OLB like Fowler AND sign a top LT.  With picks 1and 3, we can get another G, LB or DE. 

We need to sell out to get a top tier blue chip pass rusher in the draft next season like we did this year to get Darnold 

 

That means trade up for this guy:

 

 

 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We need to revamp 80% of the OL though. So not just 1 LT.. OL has great value in 2nd round. We should try to trade down, get 2 2nd rounders if possible and take 2 OL. Don’t think Mac will ever spend the $$$ for a decent OL in FA

80%. Wow you guys are hysterical why not 100%

 

I would upgrade the left side in FA next year. Long is probably going to be ok.  Winters and Shell aren’t spectacular but they are fine.  Realistically we will be able to sign both Lewan and Martin if both hit the free agent market

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, Bugg said:

Stats also reflect he played in all 16 games, which begs a bunch of questions that I don't have complete answers for. Did he get spelled like a lot of big DL guys do? Was he out of shape such they didn't play him except on passing downs? Or  was he known to take non pass downs off such they didn't play him then? It's intriguing, simply not sure you want to get back in bed with a possible nonhacker after you rightly got rid of 2 of those. But Fowler was at least productive when he did play. And pass rushers are hard to come by. 

The bigger issue is Fowler was pretty much a bust until last season when Coughlin took over.  He’s been a headcase both on and off the field and an unproductive one at that until this past season

 

A big contract + Todd Bowles drooling on himself means Fowler most likely reverts to what he was up until 10 months ago

[BigO]

15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We need to sell out to get a top tier blue chip pass rusher in the draft next season like we did this year to get Darnold 

 

That means trade up for this guy:

 

 

 

No way we have the capital to get him. No way. We should be around 5-11 7-9 record and we don’t have a #2 to use so it’s a long long shot.  Besides we have way to many holes and an average to below average talent pool to be trading up. 

[Jetsplayer21]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

80%. Wow you guys are hysterical why not 100%

 

I would upgrade the left side in FA next year. Long is probably going to be ok.  Winters and Shell aren’t spectacular but they are fine.  Realistically we will be able to sign both Lewan and Martin if both hit the free agent market

If 100% was an option yes. I don’t think a team in NFL history has managed to replace all 5 jags on their OL in 1 yr. “ long is probably going to be ok” lol. That is a great endorsement ? Although we signed him for a 4 yr deal, he only has 6 mil guaranteed. All next yr. That is how much he is thought of. But yes, I’d be happy with a solid upgrade on the left side next offseason. Even that is asking a lot with team Mac/Bowles.