That buzz you hear is all about Darnold

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I think @KRL's point is that a second overall pick should be an investment in a potential HoF caliber player or at the very least, a strong 8-12 year contributor. If both players are playing well in this situation, a QB at the end of his rookie deal will just be entering the prime of his career while the RB will either (1) have a ton of mileage on him in just 5 years or (2) not be on your team in five years as referenced by your "next team" comment.

On top of that, it's even more ridiculous that they passed on a guy like Darnold to draft the above...especially when their HoFer at the position is in the twilight of his career and will need replacing soon.

 

12 minutes ago, KRL said:

Exactly!!!

You get #2 overall for 5 years.  There is not much reason to look past that.  It is up to you work out a deal you think makes sense after that.  I keep harping on it, but how long a player's career is does not help their draft value.  The Jets had Wilkerson on his rookie deal for 5 seasons.  Then he signed an extension.  He was an excellent draft pick, but a horrible signing. For the 5 years of his rookie deal, Mangold was a great value.  After that you  have to review his value in terms of signing him vs. guys like Mawae.  They had Farrior for his rookie deal.  He was adequate at best.  Then he went to the Steelers and excelled - not a good draft pick.  No matter how good his career turned out. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

That is something. I'm not a big Bridgewater fan, but I do think he's better than Taylor. And while Teddy is getting praise from some reporters, I can't recall anyone saying that he looks better than Darnold. 

Mayfield was supposed to be just about as NFL-ready as Josh Rosen. He's also supposed to be this super-fast learner with a photographic memory. These were some of his major plusses. Struggling to take the job from Tyrod Taylor can't be a good sign. 

Conversely, if Barkley can help get the jints another championship before Eli is done, it'll be hard to disparage the pick - and that's coming from someone who really couldn't believe they passed on Darnold. I never thought they would. Once Mayfield went first, I was really concerned about which of Rosen or Allen the Jets were gonna wind up with. 

Right now Baker Mayfield is bookmarking those tweets and hunting for the address of those reporters.  Because maturity.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

You get #2 overall for 5 years.  There is not much reason to look past that.  It is up to you work out a deal you think makes sense after that.  I keep harping on it, but how long a player's career is does not help their draft value.  The Jets had Wilkerson on his rookie deal for 5 seasons.  Then he signed an extension.  He was an excellent draft pick, but a horrible signing. For the 5 years of his rookie deal, Mangold was a great value.  After that you  have to review his value in terms of signing him vs. guys like Mawae.  They had Farrior for his rookie deal.  He was adequate at best.  Then he went to the Steelers and excelled - not a good draft pick.  No matter how good his career turned out. 

But you’ve really gotta think twice in five years when you’re about to give a RB with a million carries a second contract, and it’s a 26 year-old you’ve spent the second overall pick on. Hell, LeVeon Bell might be a top five player in the league and I don’t blame the Steelers from sweating that potential contract. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But you’ve really gotta think twice in five years when you’re about to give a RB with a million carries a second contract, and it’s a 26 year-old you’ve spent the second overall pick on. Hell, LeVeon Bell might be a top five player in the league and I don’t blame the Steelers from sweating that potential contract. 

Right, but we will gladly be paying Darnold 6 for $180M?

[Jimmy 2 Times]

 

 

 

 

These bastards are making me believe again.

Oh how it’ll hurt if he busts like all the others.

 

 

 

 

 

[slats]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But you’ve really gotta think twice in five years when you’re about to give a RB with a million carries a second contract, and it’s a 26 year-old you’ve spent the second overall pick on. Hell, LeVeon Bell might be a top five player in the league and I don’t blame the Steelers from sweating that potential contract. 

I don't mind the RB pick there if you believe that you're a world-class RB away from a championship. Even if you franchise him for a couple years after that initial five, then let him go and collect your 3rd round comp pick when he's 28-years-old. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Right, but we will gladly be paying Darnold 6 for $180M?

For the sake of argument, let’s assume that both Barkley and Darnold are pretty good players five years from now. Of course you’re running to give that money to Darnold because he’s not going to implode physically. Backs, obviously, fall off a cliff physically. 

[Jetster]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Now do the same exercise with Jamal Adams and Pat Mahomes.

You can only do that if you think Sam Darnold wasn't going to be there for the Jets to pick this year..amirite? Sam wasn't luck....it was DESTINY! The 50 year Namath Curse is over. I honestly thought the Giants were going to take Darnold

[T0mShane]

Just now, slats said:

I don't mind the RB pick there if you believe that you're a world-class RB away from a championship. Even if you franchise him for a couple years after that initial five, then let him go and collect your 3rd round comp pick when he's 28-years-old. 

Good point, but there are just so many factors in place that could blow up on the Giants. The primary one, obviously, being that Darnold becomes a legitimate star while the Giants have nothing behind a possibly finished Eli. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

You can only do that if you think Sam Darnold wasn't going to be there for the Jets to pick this year..amirite? Sam wasn't luck....it was DESTINY! The 50 year Namath Curse is over. I honestly thought the Giants were going to take Darnold

Jetster, when the Jets meet destiny, we both know what happens. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For the sake of argument, let’s assume that both Barkley and Darnold are pretty good players five years from now. Of course you’re running to give that money to Darnold because he’s not going to implode physically. Backs, obviously, fall off a cliff physically. 

and it might be to the detriment of your team.  The fact that teams ran to pay guys like Flacco and Stafford is not a reason to laugh at a team for taking what is allegedly such a great RB prospect.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Based on this article, it seems like the FO decided before that (2017) draft that they would be all in for the QBs iin 2018 instead.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft

Yes, and t worked out better than they could have possibly imagined. Especially with freaking Cousins being their top option. Luckily Cousins ego and arrogance saved us from ourselves, and we lucked into a QB that has a very realistic chance of being the best in the NFL.  We should send a thank you note to Cousins every year for the next 20 years.

7 words: "Does not make the same mistake twice"  Both Bates and Bowles said this in regards to Darnold, and I saw a couple of draft analysis that said the same thing about him, even noting he did not make the same mistake in the same game.

I have not been as excited about this team in a LONG time and it is all Darnold.

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Good point, but there are just so many factors in place that could blow up on the Giants. The primary one, obviously, being that Darnold becomes a legitimate star while the Giants have nothing behind a possibly finished Eli. 

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I thought the Giants were gonna take Darnold there and, if I were them, that's what I would've done. But the in-house politics of having a two-time Super Bowl MVP at the end of his career on the roster is something that escapes me as a Jets fan. 

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I thought the Giants were gonna take Darnold there and, if I were them, that's what I would've done. But the in-house politics of having a two-time Super Bowl MVP at the end of his career on the roster is something that escapes me as a Jets fan. 

I think it was the wrong decision no matter how you slice it up. Even if they must choose Barkley they could have extorted another pick from us at that point. I am also not convinced Barkley is going to be all world as expected.

[Rangers9]

The latest we are hearing from Todd Haley in Cleve is that Baker is not ready yet and Tyrod is at this time the team leader. No surprise and Tyrod imo is a pretty good Qb. It would be awesome for Jets fans if this guy is ahead of schedule and can be competitive from day 1. Competitive is a conservative phrase and it can morph into anywhere from good to we finally have our franchise Qb now!

[greenwichjetfan]

27 minutes ago, slats said:

Conversely, if Barkley can help get the jints another championship before Eli is done, it'll be hard to disparage the pick - and that's coming from someone who really couldn't believe they passed on Darnold. I never thought they would. Once Mayfield went first, I was really concerned about which of Rosen or Allen the Jets were gonna wind up with. 

Can't argue with the championship, but it's still an interesting debate. 10-12 years of top 7 QB play with meaningful football in January every year with the chance to win multiple super bowls, or the RB who helps you win one and most probably doesn't get to 7 years of top RB play.

[Jetster]

21 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't mind the RB pick there if you believe that you're a world-class RB away from a championship. Even if you franchise him for a couple years after that initial five, then let him go and collect your 3rd round comp pick when he's 28-years-old. 

Is there anyone out there that believes the NY Giants have a championship defense?

Eagles- Rams- Vikings- Falcons- Packers- Panthers- Saints,  all got better. Giants added a RB & added a 30 year old LT who had back issues in the past & blocked for the GOAT QB in Brady, who makes 3 decisions B4 Eli makes one. I'll never take away the 2 huge plays ELI made in 2 Super Bowls but both were also AMAZING catches too. Eli at his age is a slightly above average QB right now at age at 37 years old.

[greenwichjetfan]

29 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

You get #2 overall for 5 years.  There is not much reason to look past that.  It is up to you work out a deal you think makes sense after that.  I keep harping on it, but how long a player's career is does not help their draft value.  The Jets had Wilkerson on his rookie deal for 5 seasons.  Then he signed an extension.  He was an excellent draft pick, but a horrible signing. For the 5 years of his rookie deal, Mangold was a great value.  After that you  have to review his value in terms of signing him vs. guys like Mawae.  They had Farrior for his rookie deal.  He was adequate at best.  Then he went to the Steelers and excelled - not a good draft pick.  No matter how good his career turned out. 

I don't agree. In 2018, I consider the Wilk pick a bad pick. And I don't care about Farrior because I'm looking at the pick's career with their drafter.

Also, looking at the draft in conjunction with the QB position changes everything. Citing a 4-3 DE or a C or an OLB don't really translate.

[#27TheDominator]

To be fair, the Giants D imploded last year.  The secondary in particular.  New coaches should end that.   They were 2nd in points and 10th in yards in 2016 with basically the same personnel. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I don't agree. In 2018, I consider the Wilk pick a bad pick. And I don't care about Farrior because I'm looking at the pick's career with their drafter.

Also, looking at the draft in conjunction with the QB position changes everything. Citing a 4-3 DE or a C or an OLB don't really translate.

Okay,  how do you feel about the Stafford pick?  Alex Smith?  I see a bunch of comps to Luck.  How about that? 

I have no idea what the bold means or is supposed to mean. 

You may not agree - about Wilkerson in particular, but I have no insight as to why.

[HelenOfTroy]

It appears the three franchises drafting from 1-3 got exactly who they deserved to get.  Now they have to live with it.  

I think Sam's maturity and focus is perfect for NY.

[greenwichjetfan]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You may not agree - about Wilkerson in particular, but I have no insight as to why.

I value a QB over an RB. If both players are HoF, GOATs at their position when they retire, I'm taking the QB over the RB every single time.

I don't really understand your position. Are you saying that you would have taken Barkley over your choice of QB?

[Jetster]

22 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

It appears the three franchises drafting from 1-3 got exactly who they deserved to get.  Now they have to live with it.  

I think Sam's maturity and focus is perfect for NY.

I'll tell you one thing, when you buck a trend (short QBs) not having great success in this league & you can only site Drew Brees and Russell Wilson (far more athletic than Baker) you better be right. If the Brownies missed again & Sam Darnold turns into a franchise QB for the Jets the next 15 years no way Dorsey doesn't drag that weight around for the rest of his life! This could be a Sam Bowie/ Michael Jordan type of scenario for both the Browns & the Giants regarding passing on Sam Darnold. We can only hope & pray it ends up this way & we can send Dorsey & Gettleman gifts every future draft.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

I value a QB over an RB. If both players are HoF, GOATs at their position when they retire, I'm taking the QB over the RB every single time.

I don't really understand your position. Are you saying that you would have taken Barkley over your choice of QB?

None of what you said actually relates to my post.  I also value QB over RB.  I don't particularly like Barkley either - though I have seen him rated as a "perfect" prospect and he seemed the universally loved, highest floor prospect.  My actual point (that you are looking for) hasn't been made - that is that it is too early to start crowing about how dumb the Giants are - maybe we got the cow on ice and they got the greatest RB prospect in ages.  I don't think so and I certainly hope not, but I will wait until it happens to start talking sh*t about it. 

The point that I was actually making in the post was that I do not see the negative in the Giants riding Barkley hard.  That is a team that has had trouble finding an RB for several years. The mileage on the RB should make him cheaper come contract time.  All that factors in.  A guy having a short career is not an issue when you draft IMO - the draft pick is for the slotted contract.  What the team and player do after that is an issue of free agency.

[DetroitRed]

Every Jets fans loves to hear these reports, we Thank the FO's of Brown and Blue for this gift
even SOJF are letting a little hope back in their fandom

I disagree. I’ve met “Jet fans “ who wear the SOJF patch with honor


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[HelenOfTroy]

19 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I'll tell you one thing, when you buck a trend (short QBs) not having great success in this league & you can only site Drew Brees and Russell Wilson (far more athletic than Baker) you better be right. If the Brownies missed again & Sam Darnold turns into a franchise QB for the Jets the next 15 years no way Dorsey doesn't drag that weight around for the rest of his life! This could be a Sam Bowie/ Michael Jordan type of scenario for both the Browns & the Giants regarding passing on Sam Darnold. We can only hope & pray it ends up this way & we can send Dorsey & Gettleman gifts every future draft.

I hope and pray that happens.  If not for the Browns FO telling Sam's people from the beginning of his sophomore season, that they were going to select him #1 if he came out early, Sam would not have left USC early.  They weren't honest, and taking them for their word was a mistake.

or as Jordan Palmer said, Sam did not leave USC to go in the first round, he left to go #1 overall.

Sammy looks happy - is happy, so that is all that counts.  I'll hate those bastards with the Browns forever.  

[greenwichjetfan]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

None of what you said actually relates to my post.  I also value QB over RB.  I don't particularly like Barkley either - though I have seen him rated as a "perfect" prospect and he seemed the universally loved, highest floor prospect.  My actual point (that you are looking for) hasn't been made - that is that it is too early to start crowing about how dumb the Giants are - maybe we got the cow on ice and they got the greatest RB prospect in ages.  I don't think so and I certainly hope not, but I will wait until it happens to start talking sh*t about it. 

The point that I was actually making in the post was that I do not see the negative in the Giants riding Barkley hard.  That is a team that has had trouble finding an RB for several years. The mileage on the RB should make him cheaper come contract time.  All that factors in.  A guy having a short career is not an issue when you draft IMO - the draft pick is for the slotted contract.  What the team and player do after that is an issue of free agency.

Fair enough. I don't necessarily find the negative in the Giants loving and taking Barkley either...as a standalone pick. However, I find it in the lost opportunity cost of selecting a potential top 10 QB for the next 10-12 years; especially given Eli's age and productivity. That was the intent of my original post.

Of course it is too early to make any judgement on the Giants, just as it is too early to make any judgement on any player or team in the 2018 draft. But talking about the Giants strategy and how bad it was (IMO) is not casting judgement on the player's careers before they happen.

[ljr]

6 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I vowed in 1997 no sex until the Jets win a SB and all I can say is .........

IT HAS BEEN A LONG....LONG.....LONG... LONG TIME!!!!

And it looks to me that the drought is about to end....

Been married since then huh? ?

[batman10023]

13 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

I hope and pray that happens.  If not for the Browns FO telling Sam's people from the beginning of his sophomore season, that they were going to select him #1 if he came out early, Sam would not have left USC early.  They weren't honest, and taking them for their word was a mistake.

or as Jordan Palmer said, Sam did not leave USC to go in the first round, he left to go #1 overall.

Sammy looks happy - is happy, so that is all that counts.  I'll hate those bastards with the Browns forever.  

how did the front office know they were going to be picking first?

[HelenOfTroy]

2 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

how did the front office know they were going to be picking first?

They were talking to Sam's people (not an agent) beginning of his sophomore year, which Sam had no interest, by mid year, the Browns thought they had a good chance of the first pick. After the Rose Bowl they were talking to Sam's private coaches about picking him #1.  Sam decided to come out with the opportunity to go #1 overall.  

[ljr]

35 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

They were talking to Sam's people (not an agent) beginning of his sophomore year, which Sam had no interest, by mid year, the Browns thought they had a good chance of the first pick. After the Rose Bowl they were talking to Sam's private coaches about picking him #1.  Sam decided to come out with the opportunity to go #1 overall.  

Thank God they are dumb liars !!!

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, ljr said:

Thank God they are dumb liars !!!

I still wonder if the Jets would have taken Mayfield over Darnold, given the chance.  And I am eternally grateful it didn't come up as a choice they had to make.  

[HelenOfTroy]

21 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I still wonder if the Jets would have taken Mayfield over Darnold, given the chance.  And I am eternally grateful it didn't come up as a choice they had to make.  

Judging by the poll of Jets fans picking Mayfield over Darnold, maybe Mayfield would have been the choice.

i can understand if it was Sammy vs Josh Rosen.

[#27TheDominator]

30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I still wonder if the Jets would have taken Mayfield over Darnold, given the chance.  And I am eternally grateful it didn't come up as a choice they had to make.  

+1

[nico002]

1 hour ago, HelenOfTroy said:

They were talking to Sam's people (not an agent) beginning of his sophomore year, which Sam had no interest, by mid year, the Browns thought they had a good chance of the first pick. After the Rose Bowl they were talking to Sam's private coaches about picking him #1.  Sam decided to come out with the opportunity to go #1 overall.  

This is nonsense. There is little to no difference between being #1 or #3. QBs get their pay day on contract #2- the browns are literally the last place he’d want to go to get that.