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Case for Teddy?


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I’m a little confused when people say we should trade Teddy Bridgewater (TB2). There are a few issues with that. He’s either healthy or he’s not. If he’s not healthy, he has no trade value. If he’s healthy, then he’s either playing well or he’s not. If he plays bad in preseason, he has no value. If he plays well, then we shouldn’t trade him.

This brings me to my main point. If TB2 plays lights out in the preseason, we need to start him and be committed to him until the wheels come off. Having a good QB was the only reason Jets traded up to the third. If TB2 ends up being what we hope Darnold would be, then TB2 should stay as long as he’s good. Let Darnold learn and only let him start at any point in the future when he’s better than TB2, whether that’s in 4 games, or 4 years (assuming we resign of course)

Why should the Jets trade TB2 if he’s healthy and plays in the season like he has all off-season? We need a franchise QB and I don’t care one bit if that’s Darnold or TB. 

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  • The goal of any team should be the win a Super Bowl.
  • Many moves the Jets have made over the last 4+ years were designed to prevent them from being horrible, and not to win a Super Bowl.
  • This Jets team is not a Super Team this year.  Next year they could win a playoff game or more.  
  • Teddy is a great guy and story.  But he is not taking the Jets to the Super Bowl this year.  The Jets should be looking for a QB2 somewhere.  The best move that helps the Jets win a Super Bowl during Darnold's rookie contract is to trade TB for some value and find a second QB who would be under contract next year.  
  • Teddy could possibly win more games this year than McCown or Darnold, but that should not be the goal.  I can see it being the goal so Bowles gets more job security.  
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The absolute best thing we can do is have Teddy be our Week 1 starter, assuming he's fully healthy.  If he shows anything positive, there's bound to be a team willing to trade for him or, at the very least, sign him as a UFA this offseason and net us a compensatory selection in 2020. 

Hell, just look at what teams have traded/signed substandard QB's for over the years:

* Matt Flynn (Seahawks, 2012):  3 years, $20.5M ($9M guaranteed) -- netted Packers a 5th round compensatory selection in 2013.

* Sam Bradford (Eagles, 2015):  Bradford and a 5th were traded by the Rams for Nick Foles, a 2nd rounder and 4th rounder.  He then signed a 2-year, $26M extension ($26M guaranteed) that offseason, prior to the Eagles moving up for Carson Wentz.

* Brock Osweiler (Texans, 2016):  4 years, $72M ($37M guaranteed) -- along with losing Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan, Denver received a 3rd, 5th, and 2 7ths in compensatory picks in 2017.

* Sam Bradford (Vikings, 2016):  Once again Bradford was traded, this time to the Vikings for a 1st rounder. 

* Mike Glennon (Bears, 2017):  3 year, $45M -- compensatory selection for the Bucs was only offset by signing of UFA DeSean Jackson.  Likely would have been a 4th or 5th rounder in compensation.  Instead they settled for a 7th rounder.  Sorry @Villain The Foe.

* Sam Bradford (Cardinals, 2018):  Again?  Bradford signed a 2-year deal with the Cardinals worth up to $20M with $15M guaranteed.  He should net the Vikings a compensatory selection in 2019. 

 

Think we can't get something decent for Bridgewater if he shows anything positive?

2018 is not about wins and losses.  It's about building for our future around Sam Darnold.  Teddy B. is a nice bridge option that can help get us some valuable draft capital. 

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Feels like we've had this exact thread three+ times already.

It boils down to two camps:

Camp 1:  Darnold or nothing.  Play him or nothing.  Sell everything else to support Darnold.  Wins do not matter till whatever future year Darnold is ready to win a Super Bowl.  Only Darnold's development matters.  This camp would trade Bridgewater for a bag of footballs if it increased thec hance of Darnold starting.  And this camp has no backup plan if Darnold plays poorly (irrelevant, he's developing!) or is a bust (impossible, best prospect since Jesus!).  This camp things the job should be handed to Darnold a la Sanchez, not earned.  Interestingly, most in this camp LOVE Josh McCown.

Camp 2:  Wants to win and compete now with whomever the best player playing the best now is (be in Bridge or Darnold), and develop the players who are not the best now till they are ready in the future.  This camp does not inherently trust that Darnold is the next Luck at QB, or that the team should be all-in to such an extent on Darnold until he earns such all-in investment.  This camp would play Bridge is Bridge was playing better than Darnold, and only make a switch when Darnold shows he's worthy of it.  They think a team with a histroy at QB as bad as ours needs to invest at QB in depth, with a plan A (Darnold) and plan B (Bridge maybe, maybe not) and stop spending 10 million a year on glorified .333 winning percentage Coach-players like McCown when we could have a young prospect there instead.  This camp thinks the job should be earned, not handed.

Best as I can tell, the vast majority of fans are firmly in camp #1.  They have faith in Darnold being great.  

The entire debate, of course, is moot if Darnold outplays everyone.  Then both sides agree (from their own perspective) that Darnold should play.

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The absolute best thing we can do is have Teddy be our Week 1 starter, assuming he's fully healthy.  If he shows anything positive, there's bound to be a team willing to trade for him or, at the very least, sign him as a UFA this offseason and net us a compensatory selection. 

Hell, just look at what teams have traded/signed substandard QB's for over the years:

* Matt Flynn (Seahawks, 2012):  3 years, $20.5M ($9M guaranteed) -- netted Packers a 5th round compensatory selection in 2013.

* Sam Bradford (Eagles, 2015):  Bradford and a 5th were traded by the Rams for Nick Foles, a 2nd rounder and 4th rounder.  He then signed a 2-year, $26M extension ($26M guaranteed) that offseason, prior to the Eagles moving up for Carson Wentz.

* Brock Osweiler (Texans, 2016):  4 years, $72M ($37M guaranteed) -- along with losing Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan, Denver received a 3rd, 5th, and 2 7ths in compensatory picks in 2017.

* Sam Bradford (Vikings, 2016):  Once again Bradford was traded, this time to the Vikings for a 1st rounder. 

Mike Glennon (Bears, 2017):  3 year, $45M -- compensatory selection was only offset by signing of UFA DeSean Jackson.  Likely would have been a 4th or 5th rounder in compensation. 

* Sam Bradford (Cardinals, 2018):  Jesus.  Again?  Bradford signed a 2-year deal with the Cardinals worth up to $20M with $15M guaranteed.  He should net the Vikings a compensatory selection in 2019. 

 

Think we can't get something decent for Bridgewater if he shows anything positive?

2018 is not about wins and losses.  It's about building for our future around Sam Darnold.  Teddy B. is a nice bridge option that can help get us some valuable draft capital. 

Trade during the season?  Perhaps.  Comp pick?  I don't think we have much of a chance.  At least I hope not.  To get a comp pick, net UFA losses must exceed net UFA gains.  Even though we have like a zillion players on one-year contracts, I still doubt that Mac will forego acquiring available UFA talent left and right next off season.  I am hopeful he acquires MANY more UFAs than he loses.  Thus there should be no 2020 comp pick for Teddy or any of the others who don't stay after their one-year deals end.  Plus, the comp pick would not be for next off season, it would be for the off season between 2019 and 2020. Better off trading him this season but only if it looks like Darnold is ready at some point.

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Trade during the season?  Perhaps.  Comp pick?  I don't think we have much of a chance.  At least I hope not.  To get a comp pick, net UFA losses must exceed net UFA gains.  Even though we have like a zillion players on one-year contracts, I still doubt that Mac will forego acquiring available UFA talent left and right next off season.  I am hopeful he acquires MANY more UFAs than he loses.  Thus there should be no 2019 comp pick for Teddy or anyof the others who don''t stay after their one-year deals.  Plus, the comp pick would not be for next off season, it would be for the off season between 2019 and 2020. Better off trading him this season if it looks like Darnold is ready at some point. 

Yep, 2020 compensatory selection would be the result.  And yes, you're right that I would expect a lot of UFA signings this offseason to offset the loss of Bridgewater.

So a midseason trade, OR signing him to an extension and trading him in the offseason would be the 2 best routes. 

There's bound to be an injury or something that pushes Bridgewater onto the market.  Hell, the Bradford trade to the Vikings for a 1st was ushered in because of the injury Bridgewater himself suffered. 

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1 minute ago, j4jets said:

Again, the assumption being made here is that we resign TB after this year. 

why in the world would he want to sign with the Jets when it is clear the future is Sam Darnold?  I seriously doubt Teddy will be anxious to sign a contract that would wind up making him a career back up.  Teddy wants and deserves a chance to start somewhere else.  He's not signing here again.  

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

why in the world would he want to sign with the Jets when it is clear the future is Sam Darnold?  I seriously doubt Teddy will be anxious to sign a contract that would wind up making him a career back up.  Teddy wants and deserves a chance to start somewhere else.  He's not signing here again.  

He signed knowing very well we had every intention to go QB with the first pick. If TB doesn’t start this year, we wouldn’t resign him anyways. We only resign him if he starts most, of not all games and plays at a pro bowl level. 

Scenario: If TB plays at a pro bowl level, do you tag n trade him and commit to Darnold? Or do you resign Teddy to a multi year deal and think about trading Darnold instead?

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Feels like we've had this exact thread three+ times already.

It boils down to two camps:

Camp 1:  Darnold or nothing.  Play him or nothing.  Sell everything else to support Darnold.  Wins do not matter till whatever future year Darnold is ready to win a Super Bowl.  Only Darnold's development matters.  This camp would trade Bridgewater for a bag of footballs if it increased thec hance of Darnold starting.  And this camp has no backup plan if Darnold plays poorly (irrelevant, he's developing!) or is a bust (impossible, best prospect since Jesus!).  This camp things the job should be handed to Darnold a la Sanchez, not earned.  Interestingly, most in this camp LOVE Josh McCown.

Camp 2:  Wants to win and compete now with whomever the best player playing the best now is (be in Bridge or Darnold), and develop the players who are not the best now till they are ready in the future.  This camp does not inherently trust that Darnold is the next Luck at QB, or that the team should be all-in to such an extent on Darnold until he earns such all-in investment.  This camp would play Bridge is Bridge was playing better than Darnold, and only make a switch when Darnold shows he's worthy of it.  They think a team with a histroy at QB as bad as ours needs to invest at QB in depth, with a plan A (Darnold) and plan B (Bridge maybe, maybe not) and stop spending 10 million a year on glorified .333 winning percentage Coach-players like McCown when we could have a young prospect there instead.  This camp thinks the job should be earned, not handed.

Best as I can tell, the vast majority of fans are firmly in camp #1.  They have faith in Darnold being great.  

The entire debate, of course, is moot if Darnold outplays everyone.  Then both sides agree (from their own perspective) that Darnold should play.

I would rephrase Camp 1. I am all for whatever is best for Sam. Not so much Darnold or nothing, I'm saying that if Sam needs TB to play a few games early on to catch up or get game ready, so be it. I'm not pretending that this team is a contender right now. I'm in no rush to throw the kid into the fire if he's not ready. And I am curious to see what we have in Bridgewater.

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1 minute ago, j4jets said:

He signed knowing very well we had every intention to go QB with the first pick. If TB doesn’t start this year, we wouldn’t resign him anyways. We only resign him if he starts most, of not all games and plays at a pro bowl level. 

Scenario: If TB plays at a pro bowl level, do you tag n trade him and commit to Darnold? Or do you resign Teddy to a multi year deal and think about trading Darnold instead?

none of the above. This is silly.  The Jets will not be trading Darnold, so forget that.  Had we picked Allen or Mayfield, both of whom are more likely to bust than Darnold, then maybe.  Teddy signed with us because nobody else was willing to risk his recovery.  If he plays and plays well, he won't be signing with us again.  He'll be going elsewhere to start.  If he wants to resign himself to career back up status, he'll sign again with the jets.  But he'd be crazy to do that.

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9 minutes ago, j4jets said:

He signed knowing very well we had every intention to go QB with the first pick. If TB doesn’t start this year, we wouldn’t resign him anyways. We only resign him if he starts most, of not all games and plays at a pro bowl level. 

Scenario: If TB plays at a pro bowl level, do you tag n trade him and commit to Darnold? Or do you resign Teddy to a multi year deal and think about trading Darnold instead?

Trading Darnold ain't gonna happen.

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22 minutes ago, Dcat said:

why in the world would he want to sign with the Jets when it is clear the future is Sam Darnold?  I seriously doubt Teddy will be anxious to sign a contract that would wind up making him a career back up.  Teddy wants and deserves a chance to start somewhere else.  He's not signing here again.  

Totally agree. If he proves he's a capable NFL starter why in the world would he want to resign here? It would be "thanks for taking a chance on me. Adios "  Who can blame him ?

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41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Feels like we've had this exact thread three+ times already.

It boils down to two camps:

Camp 1:  Darnold or nothing.  Play him or nothing.  Sell everything else to support Darnold.  Wins do not matter till whatever future year Darnold is ready to win a Super Bowl.  Only Darnold's development matters.  This camp would trade Bridgewater for a bag of footballs if it increased thec hance of Darnold starting.  And this camp has no backup plan if Darnold plays poorly (irrelevant, he's developing!) or is a bust (impossible, best prospect since Jesus!).  This camp things the job should be handed to Darnold a la Sanchez, not earned.  Interestingly, most in this camp LOVE Josh McCown.

Camp 2:  Wants to win and compete now with whomever the best player playing the best now is (be in Bridge or Darnold), and develop the players who are not the best now till they are ready in the future.  This camp does not inherently trust that Darnold is the next Luck at QB, or that the team should be all-in to such an extent on Darnold until he earns such all-in investment.  This camp would play Bridge is Bridge was playing better than Darnold, and only make a switch when Darnold shows he's worthy of it.  They think a team with a histroy at QB as bad as ours needs to invest at QB in depth, with a plan A (Darnold) and plan B (Bridge maybe, maybe not) and stop spending 10 million a year on glorified .333 winning percentage Coach-players like McCown when we could have a young prospect there instead.  This camp thinks the job should be earned, not handed.

Best as I can tell, the vast majority of fans are firmly in camp #1.  They have faith in Darnold being great.  

The entire debate, of course, is moot if Darnold outplays everyone.  Then both sides agree (from their own perspective) that Darnold should play.

I am FIRMLY rooted in Camp 2.  There is nothing wrong with this situation.  If Bridgewater outplays Darnold, then he starts.  If he plays well enough to earn us a better pick when/if we trade him great.  Otherwise, at worst we have a good QB starting with the future QB sitting on the bench for awhile.  Wonder how that idea worked out for Green Bay when they had Favre starting and a young guy drafted in round 1 sitting and waiting for his chance?

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44 minutes ago, Dcat said:

none of the above. This is silly.  The Jets will not be trading Darnold, so forget that.  Had we picked Allen or Mayfield, both of whom are more likely to bust than Darnold, then maybe.  Teddy signed with us because nobody else was willing to risk his recovery.  If he plays and plays well, he won't be signing with us again.  He'll be going elsewhere to start.  If he wants to resign himself to career back up status, he'll sign again with the jets.  But he'd be crazy to do that.

So you’re saying if TB goes for 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games, you’ll let him walk and put all your eggs in Darnold basket? Indeed, “this is silly”. 

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14 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I am FIRMLY rooted in Camp 2.  There is nothing wrong with this situation.  If Bridgewater outplays Darnold, then he starts.  If he plays well enough to earn us a better pick when/if we trade him great.  Otherwise, at worst we have a good QB starting with the future QB sitting on the bench for awhile.  Wonder how that idea worked out for Green Bay when they had Favre starting and a young guy drafted in round 1 sitting and waiting for his chance?

Darnold's ceiling is so much higher than Teddy Bridgewater's that you have to do everything they can to get Darnold there ASAP. If Sam was floundering, and Teddy was playing better than he ever did before he got hurt, maybe then you start him over Darnold. But tha's about it/ If Darnold is playing well enough to be competitive and not get himself killed, he should play whether Bridgewater is slightly ahead or not. And reports from the spring practices suggest that Darnold is playing well. You have to remember that this is a kid who went from linebacker to the top NFL QB prospect in the country in three years. He's a quick learner who's still ascending. You nurture that. 

Camp #2 overrates Bridgewater and fails to recognize that he's not going to be on the Jets next year, period. Getting a pick for him and saving that $5M to spend on another piece around Sam is the smart play. 

I'm not nearly as certain as @Dcat that the Jets can't wind up with a 2020 comp pick with some clever maneuvering (Iknow, I know!), but I'll take the bird in the hand (which, in this case, would actually be more valuable than two in the bush). 

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5 minutes ago, j4jets said:

So you’re saying if TB goes for 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games, you’ll let him walk and put all your eggs in Darnold basket? Indeed, “this is silly”. 

I think the point is that this is silly because there isnt a chance in hell he goes 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games.   

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Feels like we've had this exact thread three+ times already.

It boils down to two camps:

Camp 1:  Darnold or nothing.  Play him or nothing.  Sell everything else to support Darnold.  Wins do not matter till whatever future year Darnold is ready to win a Super Bowl.  Only Darnold's development matters.  This camp would trade Bridgewater for a bag of footballs if it increased thec hance of Darnold starting.  And this camp has no backup plan if Darnold plays poorly (irrelevant, he's developing!) or is a bust (impossible, best prospect since Jesus!).  This camp things the job should be handed to Darnold a la Sanchez, not earned.  Interestingly, most in this camp LOVE Josh McCown.

Camp 2:  Wants to win and compete now with whomever the best player playing the best now is (be in Bridge or Darnold), and develop the players who are not the best now till they are ready in the future.  This camp does not inherently trust that Darnold is the next Luck at QB, or that the team should be all-in to such an extent on Darnold until he earns such all-in investment.  This camp would play Bridge is Bridge was playing better than Darnold, and only make a switch when Darnold shows he's worthy of it.  They think a team with a histroy at QB as bad as ours needs to invest at QB in depth, with a plan A (Darnold) and plan B (Bridge maybe, maybe not) and stop spending 10 million a year on glorified .333 winning percentage Coach-players like McCown when we could have a young prospect there instead.  This camp thinks the job should be earned, not handed.

Best as I can tell, the vast majority of fans are firmly in camp #1.  They have faith in Darnold being great.  

The entire debate, of course, is moot if Darnold outplays everyone.  Then both sides agree (from their own perspective) that Darnold should play.

BINGO

Count me in Camp 2

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15 minutes ago, j4jets said:

So you’re saying if TB goes for 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games, you’ll let him walk and put all your eggs in Darnold basket? Indeed, “this is silly”. 

What's silly is thinking that Teddy's gonna throw for 800 more yards and more than twice as many TDs as he's ever thrown his first year back from a devasting knee injury that kept him off the field for two years. And do it on a worse team than he had three years ago. 

This is kinda what I meant by people overrating the guy. 

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14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

All this arguing about Darnold and Bridgewater...

We all know who's getting the nod.

Image result for josh mccown

McCown starts three or four games, then it's Team Sam. Teddy isn't even in the picture. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Josh McCown had a better season last year that Bridgewater ever had before he lost his leg. If someone offers the Jets anything in the third-round pick and up range, they should just say thank you. 

Darnold is a much better prospective franchise QB than Bridgewater is today. 

I don’t agree that McCown had a better season than Bridgewater ever had. McCowns season is as fools gold. How many games did he lose for the Jets in the 4th qtr and a couple that we won he tried to give away. Yes he was better than anyone the Jets had the previous season and he played fairly well but I remember that he sukkked In the 4th qtr with the game on the line - like he always does. Would rather have Teddy behind center. He actually wins games. 

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Love this thread.... Just good old fashioned mindless speculation out here...

Love it!!! :) 

As far as TB goes he is better then Petty and Hackenberg; and he is a capable NFL QB when healthy. Period.....

The idea that those of us who wanted a TB type player on the team were somehow fantasizing that TB was suddenly going to morph into Tom Brady was never even suggested by the sane among us..

Again TB is far better then what we had and that includes McCown. 

 

When considering TB raw numbers folks forget that AP was the RB with TB and that means he sucked the life out of the offense and it is not a surprise that the offense became more diverse, unpredictable and dynamic without AP and I for don't think that it was some type of coincidence.

I have said it before NFL players, especially QBs get hurt (See Vikings & Eagles) and you need more than a hold the fort type QB to win big as the Eagles did last year.

 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The absolute best thing we can do is have Teddy be our Week 1 starter, assuming he's fully healthy.  If he shows anything positive, there's bound to be a team willing to trade for him or, at the very least, sign him as a UFA this offseason and net us a compensatory selection in 2020. 

Hell, just look at what teams have traded/signed substandard QB's for over the years:

* Matt Flynn (Seahawks, 2012):  3 years, $20.5M ($9M guaranteed) -- netted Packers a 5th round compensatory selection in 2013.

* Sam Bradford (Eagles, 2015):  Bradford and a 5th were traded by the Rams for Nick Foles, a 2nd rounder and 4th rounder.  He then signed a 2-year, $26M extension ($26M guaranteed) that offseason, prior to the Eagles moving up for Carson Wentz.

* Brock Osweiler (Texans, 2016):  4 years, $72M ($37M guaranteed) -- along with losing Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan, Denver received a 3rd, 5th, and 2 7ths in compensatory picks in 2017.

* Sam Bradford (Vikings, 2016):  Once again Bradford was traded, this time to the Vikings for a 1st rounder. 

* Mike Glennon (Bears, 2017):  3 year, $45M -- compensatory selection for the Bucs was only offset by signing of UFA DeSean Jackson.  Likely would have been a 4th or 5th rounder in compensation.  Instead they settled for a 7th rounder.  Sorry @Villain The Foe.

* Sam Bradford (Cardinals, 2018):  Again?  Bradford signed a 2-year deal with the Cardinals worth up to $20M with $15M guaranteed.  He should net the Vikings a compensatory selection in 2019. 

 

Think we can't get something decent for Bridgewater if he shows anything positive?

2018 is not about wins and losses.  It's about building for our future around Sam Darnold.  Teddy B. is a nice bridge option that can help get us some valuable draft capital. 

Sam Bradford has gotten some crazy contracts, considering his injury history.  But Osweiller takes the cake.  What a fiasco that was!

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