Case for Teddy?

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, shuler82 said:

Another Warfish post dealing in blah blah blah...

It's my reading of things.  Nothing more.  Don't get so butthurt over it.

I should have added how intolerant Camp 1 is of any opinion not in 100% agreement with Camp 1.

[shuler82]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

It's my reading of things.  Nothing more.  Don't get so butthurt over it.

I should have added how intolerant Camp 1 is of any opinion not in 100% agreement with Camp 1.

I’ve always thought you were a quality poster.. except for your frequent recent habit to over generalize differenting opinions than yours to make your viewpoint seem more rational. But you’re right - it’s all blah blah and we’re all hoping for the same end result here 

[batman10023]

3 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

I’ve always thought you were a quality poster.. except for your frequent recent habit to over generalize differenting opinions than yours to make your viewpoint seem more rational. But you’re right - it’s all blah blah and we’re all hoping for the same end result here 

I believe it’s due to his retirement.  

[Greenseed4]

2 good QBs is immeasurably better than 1 good QB with another draft pick. 

See: Eagles 2017

[Fantasy Island]

10 hours ago, Dcat said:

Here's a comparable analogy to the situation above:  if Kate Upton knocks on my door and tells me that she has been sexually longing for me for quite some time, no... aching for me...  and I say, sorry Kate, but I have a thread on JN to attend to, but maybe tomorrow.  That's how likely your above scenario is.  Completely irrelevant to the reality and to the discussion.  If Teddy were to have that kind of success, it would have to start well before the trading deadline and if he's doing that well leading into the trade deadline, there will be more than one enticing offer on the table and the Jets will pull the trigger because Darnold is the future.  End of story. 

Who is Kate Upton?

Edit: Never mind it's the Hardee's girl

 

[GreenFish]

Darnold is our future. If we can get a a 3rd or better for Teddy, we have to take it. This team needs to keep adding better players. Teddy is gone after this year.

[AZJets fan]

We are not going to the SB this season so no need to start Darnold.  Play TB2 and or McCowan until we have an o-line that can protect or new asset. We need to bolster the o-line and receiver corps before we trot Darnold out there. Darnold is the future, not the present. No reason to screw this up. Patience is the key here! We have waited too long.

[JohnnyLV]

14 hours ago, j4jets said:

So you’re saying if TB goes for 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games, you’ll let him walk and put all your eggs in Darnold basket? Indeed, “this is silly”. 

There is literally more chance of Darnold throwing for 5000 yards than TB having that season. He was never that type of QB, and his knee injury precludes any chance of that now. Plus the Jets are NOT starting Bridgewater. Pretty muvh ever.

[mkajet01]

Teddy had 3 picks one day! Darnold is showing he's best qb on team! Also why do you want teddy to start when jets drafted their franchise qb. Teddy's best yr 14 Td's 9 interception are mediocre stats. I bet you loved geno smith

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[jetstream23]

18 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

BINGO

Count me in Camp 2

Same here. Camp 2.

Love Darnold but he has to earn it. 

[mkajet01]

Josh McCown had a better season last year that Bridgewater ever had before he lost his leg. If someone offers the Jets anything in the third-round pick and up range, they should just say thank you. 
Darnold is a much better prospective franchise QB than Bridgewater is today. 

I agree Bridgewater is a mediocre qb

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[mkajet01]

Teddy is the 3rd best qb on this team.  He stinks.

I agree Darnold could throw 14 Td's with 9 it's with his left arm

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[mkajet01]

So you’re saying if TB goes for 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games, you’ll let him walk and put all your eggs in Darnold basket? Indeed, “this is silly”. 

Bridgewater with more offensive talent in Minnesota never came close to those numbers! What are you smoking? McCown is better then him!

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[mkajet01]

I think the point is that this is silly because there isnt a chance in hell he goes 4000+ yards, 30+ TDS n under 10 picks while winning 10+ games.   

He's never done it! His career numbers rather pedestrian

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[mkajet01]

As has been pointed out, Bridgewater was on his way to becoming a career gamemanager before he completely wrecked his knee...now we have people who think he can be the longterm solution here based off a couple of decent minicamp practices (the last of which TB looked like dogsh*t in with 3 picks and a botched snap).
This is just bonkers 
If Teddy plays at a competent level during the pre-season and at the same time Darnold looks like he has a nice grasp of the offense and isn’t totally overwhelmed, then you trade Teddy for a 3rd rounder and never look back.

All he is game manager! Darnold playmaker

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[mkajet01]

Would like to see one of those reports where it was said he looked better than anyone.  All that was said is that he looks good and its a nice story.  So far.
Dont remember one Teddy was the best QB in OTAs and camp.  

Teddy three 3 int's in 1 day Darnold is out shining the other 2 guys! What is it with you & Bridgewater?

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[mkajet01]

The vikings offense became more explosive when Bridgewater wasn't playing!

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[mkajet01]

We all said the same about Sanchez. 

Bridgewater ain't Brady or Brees! He couldn't carry either guys jock

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[Philc1]

14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

What are two out of three things Teddy Bridgewater has never done, Alex? 

But Teddy was a “franchise qb” before the injury!

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, mkajet01 said:

The vikings offense became more explosive when Bridgewater wasn't playing!

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It did.  A total JAG like Keenum put up big numbers bigger than anything Teddy had done.  He’s a glorified Jacoby Brisset

[CanadaSteve]

19 hours ago, slats said:

Darnold's ceiling is so much higher than Teddy Bridgewater's that you have to do everything they can to get Darnold there ASAP. If Sam was floundering, and Teddy was playing better than he ever did before he got hurt, maybe then you start him over Darnold. But tha's about it/ If Darnold is playing well enough to be competitive and not get himself killed, he should play whether Bridgewater is slightly ahead or not. And reports from the spring practices suggest that Darnold is playing well. You have to remember that this is a kid who went from linebacker to the top NFL QB prospect in the country in three years. He's a quick learner who's still ascending. You nurture that. 

Camp #2 overrates Bridgewater and fails to recognize that he's not going to be on the Jets next year, period. Getting a pick for him and saving that $5M to spend on another piece around Sam is the smart play. 

I'm not nearly as certain as @Dcat that the Jets can't wind up with a 2020 comp pick with some clever maneuvering (Iknow, I know!), but I'll take the bird in the hand (which, in this case, would actually be more valuable than two in the bush). 

And I think this is where Camp #2 points out again that having two quarterbacks is not a problem.  Wasn't a problem for the Redskins when they gave up two years worth of picks to get Robert Griffin and then still took Kirk Cousins with a 4th round pick.

Bridgewater was good in his rookie season and better in his sophomore season. Eggs in one basket is just as bad in football as it is in poker....

[CanadaSteve]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

There is literally more chance of Darnold throwing for 5000 yards than TB having that season. He was never that type of QB, and his knee injury precludes any chance of that now. Plus the Jets are NOT starting Bridgewater. Pretty muvh ever.

While he may not throw 5000, he most definitely could put up 4000/20+ and under 10 INT.'s

What is just not fathomable with Jet fans (not you, but a generalization) is we have gone almost 20 years without a franchise QB (and that is being generous with Chad Pennington), but now we have the opportunity to have a franchise QB AND another 2nd quality QB, but we are quick to want to ship him out the door as fast as possible.  Why the rush to spring clean?  Darnold will more than likely not start anyway.  I seem to recall a vast majority of the board not being that happy with trotting out Josh McCown last year.  So why not see what you have in Bridgewater, and try and at least raise his value some before the trade deadline?

 

[#27TheDominator]

10 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

2 good QBs is immeasurably better than 1 good QB with another draft pick. 

See: Eagles 2017

Do you want me to point out how flawed this argument is? 

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And I think this is where Camp #2 points out again that having two quarterbacks is not a problem.  Wasn't a problem for the Redskins when they gave up two years worth of picks to get Robert Griffin and then still took Kirk Cousins with a 4th round pick.

Bridgewater was good in his rookie season and better in his sophomore season. Eggs in one basket is just as bad in football as it is in poker....

You want to point to the Redskins as sound managers of the position?  What did the Redskins end up with when it was all said and done?  They spent a bunch of draft picks and spend millions then let both QBs walk without compensation and had to send a 3rd and a promising CB to KC for the "right" to give 33 year old Alex Smith a long term contract for a gajillion dollars.

Here is why the "two QBs are better than one" philosophy is wrong in this case.  The Jets are not contending for anything this year.  The purpose of the season is to get Darnold ready for the big push in 2019/2020 and beyond. The Jets already have a 2nd QB that was worth more on the open market than Bridgewater.  Bridgewater will be an unrestricted FA in 2019.  They will get nothing in return and if he seems like a viable starting QB again, he will not likely sign with the Jets. 

The Eagles are a bad comparison, seeing how they moved their best QB when they drafted Wentz.  That is what the Jets would be doing here.  Drafting Darnold (=drafting Wentz), keeping McCown (=keeping Chase Daniel), and trading Bridgewater (=trading Bradford).

There is some value to having Bridgewater around, which is why we are not all advocating cutting him (to save cap space) or trading him for anything (Hackenberg conditional 7th anyone?).  There is a spot in the 2nd-4th rounds, where it makes too much sense not to move the guy.

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

While he may not throw 5000, he most definitely could put up 4000/20+ and under 10 INT.'s

What is just not fathomable with Jet fans (not you, but a generalization) is we have gone almost 20 years without a franchise QB (and that is being generous with Chad Pennington), but now we have the opportunity to have a franchise QB AND another 2nd quality QB, but we are quick to want to ship him out the door as fast as possible.  Why the rush to spring clean?  Darnold will more than likely not start anyway.  I seem to recall a vast majority of the board not being that happy with trotting out Josh McCown last year.  So why not see what you have in Bridgewater, and try and at least raise his value some before the trade deadline?

McCown could put up 4000/20 and under 10 ints too.  In his best season, Bridgewater put up 3200/14/9 in 16 games.  Last year McCown put up 2900/18/8 in 13 games.   One did it in 2017, the other in 2015.  One is not coming off a catastrophic injury. 

I don't think anybody is rushing to ship these guys out the door, but if you can get a 2nd or 3rd for either you had better consider it strongly.  QB is a strange position.  Teams don't like to have guys on the roster that may detract from the psyche of their starters.  Guys like Tebow, Cutler and Kaepernick do that for varying reasons.  That doesn't make them less likely to win games than guys on roster - guys like Joel Stave, Nic Shimonek, Alex Tanney, and Luis Perez all have jobs.  One of those guys goes down and teams will almost certainly prefer to play Taylor, Bridgewater, or McCarron. 

[slats]

3 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

While he may not throw 5000, he most definitely could put up 4000/20+ and under 10 INT.'s

What is just not fathomable with Jet fans (not you, but a generalization) is we have gone almost 20 years without a franchise QB (and that is being generous with Chad Pennington), but now we have the opportunity to have a franchise QB AND another 2nd quality QB, but we are quick to want to ship him out the door as fast as possible.  Why the rush to spring clean?  Darnold will more than likely not start anyway.  I seem to recall a vast majority of the board not being that happy with trotting out Josh McCown last year.  So why not see what you have in Bridgewater, and try and at least raise his value some before the trade deadline?

 

The Great Teddy Bridgewater was an UFA and the best opportunity he could find was for $500K guaranteed on the worst team in Madden. A team that had already named McCown the starter, and was certain to take a QB high in the draft. Why do you think that is? He was beloved in Minnesota, and they didn't even consider having him back. The fact is that he was never as good as the hype that surrounded him, and that injury not only almost cost him his career, but nearly cost him his leg. No one really knows how well that's gonna hold up. 

And why would Teddy be more ready to start than Darnold? One of the alleged knocks on Sam is that he only started two years in college. Teddy spent those same two years rehabbing his leg and throwing a single NFL pass. Who do you think would have more rust? 

The writing is pretty clearly on the wall here. McCown is getting all of his reps exclusively with the starters. Darnold is getting the most overall, and a nice chunk of those with the starters. Teddy didn't get any reps with the starters with reporters present until the mandatory practices where he just got a few. Basically, it's McCown's job until Darnold takes it from him. Bridgewater is a $500K flier/insurance policy. The insurance was against McCown getting hurt and/or the rookie they chose not being ready to play (if Darnold hadn't been there, we'd be reading locally about Mayfield not being ready, most likely). They're throwing everything at Sam, and by all accounts is absorbing it and performing well. They might sit him a few weeks just because the Jets' opening schedule is rough, but they're going to play Darnold -sooner rather than later- because that's the only way he's going to achieve his potential. 

We have that second quality QB in McCown, so that's not an argument. Teddy still has a ways to go to prove he's better than McCown. The flip-side of that is that if Bridgewater is the franchise QB a few of you inexplicably imagine him to be, there's absolutely no way he's resigning with the Jets. He's going to take his best offer to start elsewhere. In fact, the only way Teddy is back on the Jets next year is if the Jets backup offer is the best thing on his table. McCown will likely be back next year as the designated backup at less than what he's currently making, while Teddy embarks on his journeyman career.   

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, mkajet01 said:

Teddy three 3 int's in 1 day Darnold is out shining the other 2 guys! What is it with you & Bridgewater?

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Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote.  I said I don't remember one article that said Teddy was the best QB.  

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

While he may not throw 5000, he most definitely could put up 4000/20+ and under 10 INT.'s

What is just not fathomable with Jet fans (not you, but a generalization) is we have gone almost 20 years without a franchise QB (and that is being generous with Chad Pennington), but now we have the opportunity to have a franchise QB AND another 2nd quality QB, but we are quick to want to ship him out the door as fast as possible.  Why the rush to spring clean?  Darnold will more than likely not start anyway.  I seem to recall a vast majority of the board not being that happy with trotting out Josh McCown last year.  So why not see what you have in Bridgewater, and try and at least raise his value some before the trade deadline?

 

It is not really that people want to ship him out the door as much as the situation basically stating that is the best course for him. We signed Bridgewater to a one year deal, and then were able to draft Darnold.

In this situation, there is very little reasonable in terms of scenarios where we can keep Bridgewater.

Even if he started and played decent, we wouldnt likely sign him, as someone else would offer him more money.

Even if he stays healthy and holds a clipboard for a year, her has likely done enough to get a starting chance elsewhere.

Best scenario for Bridgewater is to stay healthy and show decent enough in training camp to get us some trade offers.

And in terms of the OP constantly bringing up other QBs that recovered from injury it is not apples to apples. His injury was horrific, one of the worst knee injuries in NFL history.  It is actually amazing he has recovered enough to walk.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

20 hours ago, j4jets said:

Confidence is good. And I’m hoping you’re right. But that doesn’t address my hypothetical and very realistic scenario. 

4K yards and 30+ TDS with under 10 picks would be much more of a known commodity than a rookie QB. And it won’t be as a game manager either. 

Sheldumb (why not him?), Revis, Vilma, John Abraham, Coles n Moss to name a few. Then there are several we let walk in FA cuz we didn’t want to pay them the market value.

Sounds good except for the fact that the game manager never threw for more than 3100 yards or 14 TDs before his knee injury.  

The if pigs had wings they could fly approach doesnt quite work

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Do you want me to point out how flawed this argument is? 

You want to point to the Redskins as sound managers of the position?  What did the Redskins end up with when it was all said and done?  They spent a bunch of draft picks and spend millions then let both QBs walk without compensation and had to send a 3rd and a promising CB to KC for the "right" to give 33 year old Alex Smith a long term contract for a gajillion dollars.

Here is why the "two QBs are better than one" philosophy is wrong in this case.  The Jets are not contending for anything this year.  The purpose of the season is to get Darnold ready for the big push in 2019/2020 and beyond. The Jets already have a 2nd QB that was worth more on the open market than Bridgewater.  Bridgewater will be an unrestricted FA in 2019.  They will get nothing in return and if he seems like a viable starting QB again, he will not likely sign with the Jets. 

The Eagles are a bad comparison, seeing how they moved their best QB when they drafted Wentz.  That is what the Jets would be doing here.  Drafting Darnold (=drafting Wentz), keeping McCown (=keeping Chase Daniel), and trading Bridgewater (=trading Bradford).

There is some value to having Bridgewater around, which is why we are not all advocating cutting him (to save cap space) or trading him for anything (Hackenberg conditional 7th anyone?).  There is a spot in the 2nd-4th rounds, where it makes too much sense not to move the guy.

McCown could put up 4000/20 and under 10 ints too.  In his best season, Bridgewater put up 3200/14/9 in 16 games.  Last year McCown put up 2900/18/8 in 13 games.   One did it in 2017, the other in 2015.  One is not coming off a catastrophic injury. 

I don't think anybody is rushing to ship these guys out the door, but if you can get a 2nd or 3rd for either you had better consider it strongly.  QB is a strange position.  Teams don't like to have guys on the roster that may detract from the psyche of their starters.  Guys like Tebow, Cutler and Kaepernick do that for varying reasons.  That doesn't make them less likely to win games than guys on roster - guys like Joel Stave, Nic Shimonek, Alex Tanney, and Luis Perez all have jobs.  One of those guys goes down and teams will almost certainly prefer to play Taylor, Bridgewater, or McCarron. 

Actually, I can say your argument is flawed.  Had the Redskins not drafted Cousins as well as Griffin, they would have been even worse off.  As it was, Cousins took his team to the playoffs. 

Yeah, because there is TONS of upside in putting McCown in there to do that.

Nobody is saying NOT to trade Bridgewater.  But right now, nobody knows if that knee can actually take NFL pounding.  So that is why you do start him, to see what you have.  IF the guy can play well, his value is only going to go up.  There is ZERO CHANCE you get a 2nd or a 3rd for him right now.  

To quote Warfish's argument that there is two camps here, camp #2 is just saying why the rush to get Bridgewater out the door when you would be lucky to get a fifth rounder for him?  Let the guy play, see if the knee holds up, and let him make some throws in a game.  Then start answering the phone. 

[slats]

14 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Nobody is saying NOT to trade Bridgewater.  But right now, nobody knows if that knee can actually take NFL pounding.  So that is why you do start him, to see what you have.  IF the guy can play well, his value is only going to go up.  There is ZERO CHANCE you get a 2nd or a 3rd for him right now. 

He can achieve his maximum trade value by playing decently in the preseason, demonstrating to the TV world that he's moving around well. He doesn't have to start any regular season games, and the Jets don't seem to have any plans to have him do that, either, barring injury. 

15 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

To quote Warfish's argument that there is two camps here, camp #2 is just saying why the rush to get Bridgewater out the door when you would be lucky to get a fifth rounder for him?  Let the guy play, see if the knee holds up, and let him make some throws in a game.  Then start answering the phone. 

 

I guess there must be some mysterious camp #3 out there saying let's trade Teddy for a fifth rounder, because I haven't seen a single person mention that being a good idea here. A third rounder seems to be the minimum. Now that I think about it, I don't recall anyone suggesting that he be traded before training camp, either. Hmmm...  who is this camp #3? 

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, slats said:

He can achieve his maximum trade value by playing decently in the preseason, demonstrating to the TV world that he's moving around well. He doesn't have to start any regular season games, and the Jets don't seem to have any plans to have him do that, either, barring injury. 

I guess there must be some mysterious camp #3 out there saying let's trade Teddy for a fifth rounder, because I haven't seen a single person mention that being a good idea here. A third rounder seems to be the minimum. Now that I think about it, I don't recall anyone suggesting that he be traded before training camp, either. Hmmm...  who is this camp #3? 

The camp that seems to be in a hurry to trade him.

You won't get a third rounder just because Bridgewater runs around against soon-to-be McDonald's employees.  He will need to see real game action.  Apparently, this will be a HORRENDOUS thing because it will stunt McCown's growth since he wouldn't be able to start. 

But again, this will be the 'wrong' choice, according to many, because Bridgewater's trade value will be at its best after two pre-season games. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

The camp that seems to be in a hurry to trade him.

You won't get a third rounder just because Bridgewater runs around against soon-to-be McDonald's employees.  He will need to see real game action.  Apparently, this will be a HORRENDOUS thing because it will stunt McCown's growth since he wouldn't be able to start. 

But again, this will be the 'wrong' choice, according to many, because Bridgewater's trade value will be at its best after two pre-season games. 

Excellent!  Glad we have a solid group of GM's here running the ship!

If Bridgewater survives the preseason and performs at a decent level, I'd put him on ice rather than risk him getting injured and losing any trade value along with $5M for nothing. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, slats said:

If Bridgewater survives the preseason and performs at a decent level, I'd put him on ice rather than risk him getting injured and losing any trade value along with $5M for nothing. 

Fair enough....That is the beauty of all this: We all have different opinions on how it would work!

I would start him if Darnold is not ready, and see what is there.  I would also keep him as a #2.  Philly doesn't win the Super Bowl last year without a solid #2.  This league has gotten to the point that without 2 QB's in many cases, you have no shot.

What I would LOVE to see is a developmental league for the NFL.  Imagine the NHL or the MLB without a minor league system?  There are some good football players who could become NFL capable if they had a 1-2 to play at a professional level in a minor league system.  QB's especially!

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

It is not really that people want to ship him out the door as much as the situation basically stating that is the best course for him. We signed Bridgewater to a one year deal, and then were able to draft Darnold.

In this situation, there is very little reasonable in terms of scenarios where we can keep Bridgewater.

Even if he started and played decent, we wouldnt likely sign him, as someone else would offer him more money.

Even if he stays healthy and holds a clipboard for a year, her has likely done enough to get a starting chance elsewhere.

Best scenario for Bridgewater is to stay healthy and show decent enough in training camp to get us some trade offers.

And in terms of the OP constantly bringing up other QBs that recovered from injury it is not apples to apples. His injury was horrific, one of the worst knee injuries in NFL history.  It is actually amazing he has recovered enough to walk.

 

 

 

 

 

To be honest, I am not sure he should even be trying to play again.  Sometimes, you take your shot and it doesn't work.  He made some money; it might be best to be sure you can walk the rest of your life.

[Warfish]

16 hours ago, shuler82 said:

I’ve always thought you were a quality poster.. except for your frequent recent habit to over generalize differenting opinions than yours to make your viewpoint seem more rational. But you’re right - it’s all blah blah and we’re all hoping for the same end result here 

I find people views on the quality my posting is generally in line with their agreement with my opinions of the day.

I also find that people who disagree with me often prefer to talk about me and how I post as they see it, rather than the topic.  

How about, and I know this may sound crazy, we just agree to disagree once in a while?  We (in general) don't have to fight over every opinion just to express our own.

Because you're quite right, we want the same thing:  A Jets Super Bowl win in our lifetimes.

[TuscanyTile2]

I didn’t read all 4 pages but did anyone make this joke yet?

Case Keenum supports Teddy B?