flgreen Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Previewing the NY Jets offensive line, including Brian Winters, Spencer Long, Brandon Shell Andy Vasquez, NorthJerseyPublished 8:00 a.m. ET July 11, 2018 Jets writer Andy Vasquez goes position-by-position through the offense in advance of training camp.Andy Vasquez, Staff Writer, @andy_vasquez CONNECTTWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE The Jets weren't good enough in 2017 at a lot of positions. That's just how it is for a 5-11 team. But their offensive line was particularly disappointing. They were supposed to be an experienced and reliable group. Instead they were dogged by injury, inconsistency and allowed 47 sacks — seventh-worst in the NFL. Things are supposed to be different this year. The Jets have upgraded a key position and got healthy at another. So what to make of this offensive line? Our position-by-position preview continues as we get closer to July 26, and the start of training camp. The depth chart (Projected starters in bold): (LT) Kelvin Beachum, (LG) James Carpenter, (C) Spencer Long, (RG) Brian Winters, (RT) Brandon Shell, Travis Swanson, Antonio Garcia, Brent Qvale, Dakota Dozier, Ben Ijalana, Jonotthan Harrison, Ben Braden, Dakoda Shepley, Darius James The breakdown The Jets signed Long to replace Wesley Johnson, who had a disappointing season after the departure of longtime center Nick Mangold. Long is coming off quad surgery but should be a big upgrade and provide stability throughout the line. Beachum, Carpenter and Shell all proved themselves competent in 2017. Winters struggled mightily as he dealt with an injury — more on that in a moment — but should be improved. Swanson, a free-agent pickup, started 42 of 53 games in his first four seasons in Detroit. He will almost certainly make the team as a backup center/guard. Expect Garcia, a new addition from the Patriots, to push Qvale, Dozier and Ijalana for a backup job. The big question Can Winters get back to old form? Winters signed a four-year, $29 million ($15 million guaranteed) extension with the Jets before the 2017 season, and then went on to have the worst year of his career. But that was for good reason: He played most of the season with torn abdominal and abductor muscles. Winters, who suffered the injury in Week 2, called the pain "horrendous" and said he "wasn't able to do anything." But offseason surgery fixed all that, and Winters says he's poised for a big year. He's only 27 and in the midst of his prime, so if Winters does play the way he's supposed to, it could transform this line. Part of the reason Johnson struggled last season was because Winters wasn't 100 percent. But with a healthy Winters, the line should be the consistent experienced unit it is supposed to be. The Jets certainly need that this season, because the Jets can't afford to have any of their quarterbacks — Josh McCown, Teddy Bridgewater, or Sam Darnold — taking major punishment. Email: vasqueza@northjersey.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckkieB Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 By far the most important unit on the team this year IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The other big question is how Carpenter responds to the zone blocking scheme. He performed poorly in Seattle's zone and was psyched to be in the Jets man/power system. Swanson will likely compete for his starting spot in the Jets zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 It can't be worse than last year, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, peebag said: It can't be worse than last year, can it? uggghhhh ?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrene Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 52 minutes ago, ljr said: Toulouse-Lautrec, or is the fault of the Jets GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Gangrene said: Toulouse-Lautrec, or is the fault of the Jets GM? Made me look up who peg-leg was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRy56 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 A healthy Winters and a much improved C position = let’s ******* go! Darnold is coming for ROTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 6 hours ago, slats said: The other big question is how Carpenter responds to the zone blocking scheme. He performed poorly in Seattle's zone and was psyched to be in the Jets man/power system. Swanson will likely compete for his starting spot in the Jets zone. Agreed on the Carp point. Also, what makes you say that in bold out of curiosity? Can't say I know much about the guy other than he was a former Lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 6 hours ago, slats said: The other big question is how Carpenter responds to the zone blocking scheme. He performed poorly in Seattle's zone and was psyched to be in the Jets man/power system. Swanson will likely compete for his starting spot in the Jets zone. I kinda think this sh*t is overrated. It mattered in the past when you didn't have guys that were 6'5 getting to the quarterback in under 3 seconds. Nowadays it's just you can either stop Von or Donald or you can't. Seems really rare to find guys in today's game that are successful in one scheme and completely fall off in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Fingers crossed on Garcia Head scratched on Carpenter Prayers said for Long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 30 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: I kinda think this sh*t is overrated. It mattered in the past when you didn't have guys that were 6'5 getting to the quarterback in under 3 seconds. Nowadays it's just you can either stop Von or Donald or you can't. Seems really rare to find guys in today's game that are successful in one scheme and completely fall off in another. Other than just our info on Carpenter playing poorly in zone for Seattle but well for Jets in Man ... It would be nice if there was some way to predict/evaluate this .. Maybe some bulk #'s scouts or FO people could track. Breakdowns of thedifferent concepts discuss how quickness/shiftiness/smaller OL work better for zone ... and Brute strength & size for man .. But hard data compiled over the years on this would be cool to dig into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, ljr said: Other than just our info on Carpenter playing poorly in zone for Seattle but well for Jets in Man ... It would be nice if there was some way to predict/evaluate this .. Maybe some bulk #'s scouts or FO people could track. logic would seem to indicate quickness/shiftiness for zone ... Brute strength & size for man .. But hard data would be cool to dig into The numbers say Carpenter didn't play well in man. FO and PFF's numbers for tracking OL performance have him as pretty bad along with the rest of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: The numbers say Carpenter didn't play well in man. FO and PFF's numbers for tracking OL performance have him as pretty bad along with the rest of the line. All of our OL played like $h*t last year ... My understanding was he had performed much better in our scheme the years before that than he had in Seattle guess i'venever dug into the FO or PFF data you're talking about... But sounds like that's exactly what I was hoping for ... Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 OL needs a MASSIVE overhaul in 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Tony MaC said: Agreed on the Carp point. Also, what makes you say that in bold out of curiosity? Can't say I know much about the guy other than he was a former Lion. Swanson lists as a C/G with a lot of starts under his belt. Stands to reason that he'd be competing for a starting job, especially if Carpenter faulters. He could continue being the backup center. 4 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said: I kinda think this sh*t is overrated. It mattered in the past when you didn't have guys that were 6'5 getting to the quarterback in under 3 seconds. Nowadays it's just you can either stop Von or Donald or you can't. Seems really rare to find guys in today's game that are successful in one scheme and completely fall off in another. I don't know. We're talking about the same guy here, not some example from 20 years ago. He was very happy to get out of a zone blocking system, and played well here before last season when Johnson sucked and Winters was hurt. A lot of pressure on Carpenter with little help. We'll see. I see it as a legit question, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said: OL needs a MASSIVE overhaul in 19. Not sure that it can all be accomplished in one year but I definitely would like to see the Jets consider LT in the 1st round if they can find a 10-year franchise type guy. I also think they need to find a LG to replace Carpenter in either FA or the Draft. He is simply miscast in the zone scheme that Bates will run and I think it will become apparent over the first few weeks of the season. This blocking scheme doesn't rely on 320 maulers, you run it will with athletic 290 lb guys that can quickly identify and pickup the correct defender. It will be an interesting season on offense to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Maybe we can stuff a couple safeties into one XXL jersey and make an OLman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 10 hours ago, jetstream23 said: Not sure that it can all be accomplished in one year but I definitely would like to see the Jets consider LT in the 1st round if they can find a 10-year franchise type guy. I also think they need to find a LG to replace Carpenter in either FA or the Draft. He is simply miscast in the zone scheme that Bates will run and I think it will become apparent over the first few weeks of the season. This blocking scheme doesn't rely on 320 maulers, you run it will with athletic 290 lb guys that can quickly identify and pickup the correct defender. It will be an interesting season on offense to say the least... The interesting thing we are not tied to 1 single OL starter beyond this year. Either they are outright Free agents, or cut-able with little or no dead cap. That is the only positive to see who want back in 19, after seeing them play a year in new zone blocking scheme. A O tackle in the first round ? Would be the first time in almost a decade we drafted a OL before the fifth round lol. That would mean Bowles would have to wait until 3rd round again to pick his first D. I would assume he would have a serious meltdown lol. Your right hard to do complete makeover in 1 year.Maybe Mac will take OL more seriously after seeing what our big brother team did this offseason. The giants OL was garbage last yr, they signed a top O tackle, drafted a giant hole opener guard in top of 2nd, and signed another durable upgrade. I will settle for 3 big upgrades next yr for jets ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrene Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 19 hours ago, ljr said: Made me look up who peg-leg was Hah, it was a referenc to the the loose train track in your photo but still, Toulouse-Lautrec is worthy of your attention. This is not, in fact, a painting Robert Kraft with his baby's momma but Toulouse-Lautrec documenting the working girls of Paris with their monied clientele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 no reason not to introduce french sex workers if possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Carpenter certainly said he preferred a man power scheme to zone blocking, but I'm not sure how that translates to his performance in either. Seattle started off at RT and juggled him back and forth with LG based on injuries and available personnel. My understanding is that he had eventually settled in fairly well at LG, but they had declined his 5th year option and the Jets offered more money. Seattle had to save their scratch for Wilson and that D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 fwiw, why Winters is still a Jet is beyond me. The guy's a turnstile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Losmeister said: fwiw, why Winters is still a Jet is beyond me. The guy's a turnstile. You realize the guy had torn abdomen and abductor muscles last season right? He was very solid in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 The problem with these stats, especially for the OL, is that it isn't just a change in scheme, or individual stats. Maybe it is more like, didn't play great at Seattle. Then played great when he was playing between Brick and Mangold. Then, not as great when he played between JAG and Mangold. Then got worse when he played between JAG and crap. Not to mention that we went from Ivory, Marshall, and Decker to Forte, unknown, unknown - it changes the offense and how the defense play them. Not making excuses, but just saying it is more complicated than just man vs. zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 An OL can not have a weak link. Invest on the investment #14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavericknyc1980 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Invest in line and in pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 14, 2018 Author Share Posted July 14, 2018 23 hours ago, bostonmajet said: The problem with these stats, especially for the OL, is that it isn't just a change in scheme, or individual stats. Maybe it is more like, didn't play great at Seattle. Then played great when he was playing between Brick and Mangold. Then, not as great when he played between JAG and Mangold. Then got worse when he played between JAG and crap. Not to mention that we went from Ivory, Marshall, and Decker to Forte, unknown, unknown - it changes the offense and how the defense play them. Not making excuses, but just saying it is more complicated than just man vs. zone. It's not just stats out of context, Carpenter seems to think he plays much better in a man as opposed to a zone. 54SHARES SHARE TWEET EMAIL By: Connor Hughes | June 23, 2016 6:20 am ET When James Carpenter signed with the Jets last offseason, little was known by Gang Green faithful of the former Seattle Seahawk. A quick google search didn’t turn up much: He was a big, strong guard drafted in the first round of the 2011 NFL draft. He wasn’t bad during his four-year stay in Seattle, but not good. Outside of that? Nothing. Flash forward a year, and Carpenter’s under-the-radar signing is now viewed as arguably the best made by New York in 2015. “He’s just a good football player,” Jets offensive line coach Steve Marshall said at minicamp last week. During free agency a year ago, the Jets made it one of their priorities to address the interior of their offensive line. After missing out on signing Mike Iupati, the team turned their attention to Carpenter. Having not had an overwhelming amount of success with the Seahawks, many teams overlooked the 6-5, 321-pound guard. He wasn’t dominant during the first four years of his career, so why would that suddenly change now? The Jets were not one of those teams They studied his film, and it was there that they realized the root of his on-field struggles. In Seattle, Carpenter was forced to play in a zone-blocking scheme. The Jets ran a man-to-man, power-blocking scheme. “This offense is like a dream to me — man and power blocking,” Carpenter said during training camp last summer. “It’s a dream come true for me. That’s the type of lineman I am.” Playing on an offensive line that featured other names like “Nick Mangold” and “D’Brickashaw Ferguson,” Carpenter was arguably the best man up front for the Jets a season ago. He was a dominant force run blocking, just as good in pass protection and looked completely at home every Sunday. Heck, had it not been for his quiet nature, there’s a good chance he would have made the Pro Bowl. But while Carpenter’s success took many by surprise, it was expected by the Jets. They knew what he was capable of. He just needed to find a home. “I expected a lot out of him,” Marshall said. “I knew what Carp could do. He’s a big, young, physical player who’s going to continue to get better. He’s had an outstanding offseason. “James Carpenter can play football. He did that in college, in Seattle and he’s continued to do that here.” *** Connor Hughes covers the Jets and is the managing editor of Jets Wire.He can be reached on Twitter (@Connor_J_Hughes), Instagram (@ConnorHughesNFL) or via email (chughes@usatoday.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 8:27 AM, flgreen said: You realize the guy had torn abdomen and abductor muscles last season right? He was very solid in 2016 disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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