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Draft Elimination Round 1: New York Micks vs. HawkeyeJet "Jeteys"


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Draft Elimination Round 1: New York Micks vs HawkeyeJet "Jeteys"  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins this match in a virtual universe where these two teams meet?

    • New York Mick
      10
    • HawkeyeJet
      18

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  • Poll closed on 07/30/2018 at 10:04 PM

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RND 1; @New York Mick vs. @HawkeyeJet

JN: vote on who's all time drafted team you feel would win the match up.... you're assuming each player is entering this match up in their prime.

 

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Offense - Welsh’s WCO

Montana is obviously prefect for this since he won 4 SBs, 3 SB MVPs, 2 league MVPs and 8 pro bowls on top of too many awards to list running it.

RBs Allen and Harris fit nicely since receiving out of the backfield is so important on top of rushing and picking up the blitz.

WRs Holt and Morgan can stretch the field for the occasional big pass plays and make quick catches which Holt excelled at. Morgan especially can stretch the field. He averaged over 19 yac, 6 seasons over 20 yac with over 24 yac his best. 

Ditka can block, pick up the blitz and catch quick passes required in Welsh’s WCO. 

The oline on the right side has arguably the best RT ever in Deirdorf and the best OG ever in Hannah. The other side and center Shaw (8), Brown (9) and Hilgenberg (7) have a ton of probowls, super bowl wins and 2 HOFers. 

 

Defense - Fritz eagle/hybrid 46

It basically requires more LBers that can move around that’s why I choose players that excelled at multiple positions and getting a lot of QB pressure. LB and S need to be able to tackle as well as cover and CBs need to be able to play zone and man to man.

Greene 3rd all time - 160 sacks

Doleman 5th all time - 150.5 sacks

O’Neil 13th all time - 132.5 sacks 

Hendrick 60.5 sacks, 28 ints

Suh 51.5 sacks

Tuggle all time leading tackler 1809

Weddle 1002 tackles, 29 ints

Barber 1231 tackles, 47 ints

Allen 54 ints

Blount 57 ints

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HawkeyeJets:  The Jeteyes

QB-Terry Bradshaw

RB-Thurman Thomas

FB-Mike Alstott

WR-Fred Biletnikoff

WR-John Stallworth

TE-Jackie Smith

LT-Art Shell

LG-Bruce Matthews

C-Jim Ringo 

RG-Jim Tyrer

RT-Damien Woody

Defense

DE-Lee Roy Selmon

NT-Kyle Williams

DE-Jerome Brown

OLB-Lawrence Taylor

ILB-Zach Thomas

ILB-Nick Buoniconti

OLB-Andre Tippett

CB-Charles Woodson

CB-Richard Sherman

S-Yale Lary

S-Mark Carrier

Offense is a balanced attacking utilizing both RBS in the run game.  Passing game is heavy on play action, and spreading the targets evenly, including both RBs.

3-4 Defense 

 

 

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I'm not gonna do any campaigning other than this.

14 HOF Players(13 plus lock in Charles Woodson.  Potentially 1 more in Sherman)

62 All Pro Seasons

138 Pro Bowl Apparences

3 NFL MVP Seasons

1 AP Offensive player of year season

5 AP Defensive POY(3 guys)

3 Rookie of year seasons.

26 NFL Titles

My run game behind that OL will control the game and Bradshaw will make big plays off play action.

I think my defense speaks for itself.  Best Defensive player ever.  Best pass rusher ever.  One of the best corners ever.

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Hawk gets the edge here for me. Very very close though. Hawks secondary is just too much. Very well balanced and talented, 3 HOF’s there, Sherman is a lock HOF. And his WR’s are just better. That pass rush is insane. 

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Goal to attack Jeteyes wesknesses. 

On D Williams, Thomas and Carrie.

On O Woody and Alstott have no business on a all time time.

Against the Jeteyes on O I’d move Ditka to LTs side to help slow him down. Ditka can bump him and catch a quick pass to slow LTs attack down (if it’s possible) or stay in and help Hannah and Deirdorf with LT and Selmon. Hilgenberg should be able to handle Williams while Shaw takes on Brown which leaves Rosie Brown to block Tippett. Attacking the center of the D with runs up the middle (I feel it’s their weakness with Williams and Thomas) and between the guard tackle will draw in the safety which will allow Morgan to get open deep. Allen will also line up as a receiver and come out of the backfield exploiting Carrier who is the weakest link in the DBs. Montana is a master of quick passes and play action which I think will work well against this team with such a good passrush. They’d have to slow down to stop it. 

On D I’d put Greene, O’Neil and Suh over Woody and Tryer. There’s no chance the left side is going to be able to stop them. Hampton will be able to keep Ringo occupied leaving Doleman and Hendricks to Shell and Matthews. Hendricks is great at coverage so he’ll also cover Thomas or Smith. The CBs match up well against the WR leaving Weddle and Barber to help with run support and coverage. Tuggle is a beast against the run 1800 plus tackles so it’s going to be hard to run against  

Intresting match up but I think Woody, Alstott, Williams and Carrier will cost him the game. 

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Montana 

15 minutes ago, BigO said:

Hawk gets the edge here for me. Very very close though. Hawks secondary is just too much. Very well balanced and talented, 3 HOF’s there, Sherman is a lock HOF. And his WR’s are just better. That pass rush is insane. 

If you look at the numbers the WRs are close with the deep threat edge to mine on top of Montana throwing the ball. Blount and Woodson are tied and Allen is better then Sherman. 

The biggest weakness is Woody. He’d get Bradshaw killed. 

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24 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not gonna do any campaigning other than this.

14 HOF Players(13 plus lock in Charles Woodson.  Potentially 1 more in Sherman)

62 All Pro Seasons

138 Pro Bowl Apparences

3 NFL MVP Seasons

1 AP Offensive player of year season

5 AP Defensive POY(3 guys)

3 Rookie of year seasons.

26 NFL Titles

My run game behind that OL will control the game and Bradshaw will make big plays off play action.

I think my defense speaks for itself.  Best Defensive player ever.  Best pass rusher ever.  One of the best corners ever.

Montana has half those awards by himself and Woody is a joke on an alltime team. 

You have LT so half the people are going to vote your team just because of him without looking at the other players. 

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This is surprisingly close because I loved Mick’s team as he was building it, but Hawkeye’s team is pretty damn good. Both can rush the passer, both can block, and both can get the ball downfield.  In a case like this, you have to go to the QBs to tip the scales, but you can’t really knock either Bradshaw or Montana. I don’t think I can vote for either, honestly. That’s how close this is.

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Mike Alstott doesn't deserve to be on an all-time team?  His 6 Pro-Bowls and 3 All-Pro teams beg to differ.

those appearances are more than the following players on the opposing defense:

Jesse Tuggle

Eric Weddle

Ronde Barber

Casey Hampton

Leslie O'Neil

Eric Allen

Suh

It would have been easier to list who had a better resume on the opposing defense.  

 

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1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Mike Alstott doesn't deserve to be on an all-time team?  His 6 Pro-Bowls and 3 All-Pro teams beg to differ.

those appearances are more than the following players on the opposing defense:

Jesse Tuggle

Eric Weddle

Ronde Barber

Casey Hampton

Leslie O'Neil

Eric Allen

It would have been easier to list who had a better resume on the opposing defense.  

 

Well yeah, but that's just because he was one of the only fullbacks in the league who actually got carries...

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

dWell yeah, but that's just because he was one of the only fullbacks in the league who actually got carries...

This entire concept is supposed to be based off their accomplishments vs their peers.  Mike Alstott is more accomplished than half his team.

Thats not even getting into the actual versatility of his game.

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10 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Montana 

If you look at the numbers the WRs are close with the deep threat edge to mine on top of Montana throwing the ball. Blount and Woodson are tied and Allen is better then Sherman. 

The biggest weakness is Woody. He’d get Bradshaw killed. 

Every team has a weakness. Your wr’s just don’t do it for me. And your secondary is good but not great. It’s close very close but the edge goes to Hawk. 

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

This entire concept is supposed to be based off their accomplishments vs their peers.  Mike Alstott is more accomplished than half his team.

Thats not even getting into the actual versatility of his game.

No he's not. You actually think Mike Alstott was a better player than Eric Weddle? Weddle is a 5x Pro Bowler and 5x All Pro -- at safety, where he actually had to be better than other safeties in the league to get those distinctions. Alstott was a good player but citing his "Pro Bowls" is ridiculous. He was competing against nobody, it was a dying position and he was the only player at the position who actually got carries.

I'm not knocking having Alstott on the team but simply citing Pro Bowls or All Pros is ridiculous.

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

No he's not. You actually think Mike Alstott was a better player than Eric Weddle? Weddle is a 5x Pro Bowler and 5x All Pro -- at safety, where he actually had to be better than other safeties in the league to get those distinctions. Alstott was a good player but citing his "Pro Bowls" is ridiculous. He was competing against nobody, it was a dying position and he was the only player at the position who actually got carries.

I'm not knocking having Alstott on the team but simply citing Pro Bowls or All Pros is ridiculous.

Thats precisely what im saying.  How the hell do you figure Weddle is better?  Just because he plays a more "desirable" position?  That's like comparing a really, really outstanding relief pitcher to to an every day position player who might be league average.  Is the league average short stop a better player than the dominant relief pitcher just because he plays SS?

I'm not saying Weddle is average by any stretch, but what has he done that would leave you to believe he's a better football player than Alstott?

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2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This entire concept is supposed to be based off their accomplishments vs their peers.  Mike Alstott is more accomplished than half his team.

Thats not even getting into the actual versatility of his game.

Really? 

Alstott isnt close to Harris

Montana all day over Bradshaw

Allen vs Thomas wash

WRs wash

Oline your leftside my rightside. Woody is a joke. 

DL would go to me Doleman 8 probowls, 150 sacks. Suh 5 pro bowls 51 sacks, ONeal 6 pro bowls 132 sack 

LBs you simply because you have LT but Tuggle all time tackles and Greene 3 all time sacks are equal to your guys and Hendricks is better. CBs Allen beats Sherman Blount washes with Woodson. 

Montana and LT are the biggest names on our teams so it goes down to that pretty much. 

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15 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Montana has half those awards by himself and Woody is a joke on an alltime team. 

You have LT so half the people are going to vote your team just because of him without looking at the other players. 

Actually, he has LT, Tippett AND Selmon. That's an avalanche. Hawkeye has got the superior defense. Hawk's offense has some gaps so give the edge to Mick. Montana vs. Bradshaw? In playoffs they were both other-worldly, but Montana is by far the better overall QB. Harris and Allen are more dynamic than Thomas who was very good but not elite. Receivers are a wash. Just not sure at all how Montana ever gets the ball out. Mick can stop half that rush but not all of it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Actually, he has LT, Tippett AND Selmon. That's an avalanche. Hawkeye has got the superior defense. Hawk's offense has some gaps so give the edge to Mick. Montana vs. Bradshaw? In playoffs they were both other-worldly, but Montana is by far the better overall QB. Harris and Allen are more dynamic than Thomas who was very good but not elite. Receivers are a wash. Just not sure at all how Montana ever gets the ball out. Mick can stop half that rush but not all of it.

 

How does Woody’s side stop Suh, O’Neal and Greene? 

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1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Thats precisely what im saying.  How the hell do you figure Weddle is better?  Just because he plays a more "desirable" position?  That's like comparing a really, really outstanding relief pitcher to to an every day position player who might be league average.  Is the league average short stop a better player than the dominant relief pitcher just because he plays SS?

I'm not saying Weddle is average by any stretch, but what has he done that would leave you to believe he's a better football player than Alstott?

I'm saying that Alsott's "accomplishments" were largely by default and your argument for why he was so good centers on his accomplishments. It's not like there were 15 other fullbacks in the NFC he was outplaying every year to earn a trip to Hawaii. It was a dying marginalized position and he happened to play in an offense with a scat back (Dunn) he shared the load with for several years. Simply put, being an All Pro Fullback is less impressive than being an All Pro safety because of the level of competition.

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3 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

How does Woody’s side stop Suh, O’Neal and Greene? 

That's a good question.  How does any 1 player stop 3?

What defense are you running where Suh is lined up at DE over a RT?  I guess that moved Doleman or O'Neil inside to just get dump trucked by the rest of my line in the run game.

Keep trying to exploit that Damien Woody matchup, who was an absolute mauler in the run game(which by the way my team is centered on).  I won't take the time to point out like the 8 or so matchups where my defense has pretty good odds.  Or that you keep talking up Jesse Tuggle, the 3rd best MLB in the actual pretend game.

 

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8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That's a good question.  How does any 1 player stop 3?

What defense are you running where Suh is lined up at DE over a RT?  I guess that moved Doleman or O'Neil inside to just get dump trucked by the rest of my line in the run game.

Keep trying to exploit that Damien Woody matchup, who was an absolute mauler in the run game(which by the way my team is centered on).  I won't take the time to point out like the 8 or so matchups where my defense has pretty good odds.  Or that you keep talking up Jesse Tuggle, the 3rd best MLB in the actual pretend game.

 

Fritz Eagle 5/46

and it’s Woody and Tyrer

Doleman is on the end, Hampton in the middle with Suh on the end. O’Neal lines up as another OLB or another DE depending on the O. Greene basically blitz every down similar to LT but obviously LT is better. Tuggle is definitely better then Thomas. 

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37 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Fritz Eagle 5/46

and it’s Woody and Tyrer

Doleman is on the end, Hampton in the middle with Suh on the end. O’Neal lines up as another OLB or another DE depending on the O. Greene basically blitz every down similar to LT but obviously LT is better. Tuggle is definitely better then Thomas. 

if tackles is the sole measurement,then Tuggle is definitely better.  If you look at everything, I think Thomas is definitely better in considerably less games.

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3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

if tackles is the sole measurement,then Tuggle is definitely better.  If you look at everything, I think Thomas is definitely better in considerably less games.

Obviously we’ve watch Thomas play as Jet fans but living in SFlorida I always heard about him. The biggest knock was the same as Vilma. Lots of plays but 7 yards downfield. Tuggle was a beast sideline to sideline but obviously it doesn’t matter. Clearly LT was the deciding factor so far.  Good job with your lineup. 

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1 hour ago, Obrien2Toon said:

This is closest one for me so far

 

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This is surprisingly close because I loved Mick’s team as he was building it, but Hawkeye’s team is pretty damn good. Both can rush the passer, both can block, and both can get the ball downfield.  In a case like this, you have to go to the QBs to tip the scales, but you can’t really knock either Bradshaw or Montana. I don’t think I can vote for either, honestly. That’s how close this is.

 

Another matchup where I see both teams advancing to Round 2. 

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These are two similar teams in that their pass rushers and They have one side of their  OL that is elite. Montana is the better QB but I like Hawk’s Receivers and DB units a little more.  VS. the run Hawk’s interior could be exploited though. Barber at FS and Greene as a 43 LB takes away a little bit garnish for me. Hawk by a smidge. 

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14 hours ago, HessStation said:

These are two similar teams in that their pass rushers and They have one side of their  OL that is elite. Montana is the better QB but I like Hawk’s Receivers and DB units a little more.  VS. the run Hawk’s interior could be exploited though. Barber at FS and Greene as a 43 LB takes away a little bit garnish for me. Hawk by a smidge. 

Barber played FS as well granted only a little but he is an excellent tackler so playing FS isn’t an issue. He’s prefect at FS because he can cover a WR against teams running 3 WRs and he also can tackle in run support against teams using a FB.

The defense is a 3/4 hybrid. It’s was designed by Fritz with Greene in mind. Hendricks should be listed as a ILB/OLB. He can tackle, cover and rush the passer so moving him around wouldn’t be an issue. No matter what formation they do Greene’s job is to blitz and get to the QB or RB. O’Neal will move in and out depending on the O as well. I figured against Hawk it was a good idea to put both OLBs (a common thing Buddy Ryan would do) against Woody’s side because he’s clearly the weakest player on that team and there’s no point wasting someone blitzing on the left against Shell and Mathews they’re to good. 

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