Draft Elimination Round 1: T0mShane vs. greenwichjetfan

[CTM]

I voted for Greenwich, but only because losing makes T0m happy and I want him to be happy  

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, CTM said:

I voted for Greenwich, but only because losing makes T0m happy and I want him to be happy  

I’m pretty much assuming every vote against me is similarly motivated. ?

[T0mShane]

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

How many teams were in this that these are the starting QB's?

[T0mShane]

My secondary: 

174 INTs

31 Pro Bowls

8 1st Team All Pros

 

Greenwich’s secondary:

140 INTs

22 Pro Bowls

9 1st Team all pros 

[New York Mick]

53 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

Sounds familiar 

My front 7 had 

585 sacks

42 pro bowls 

[HessStation]

2 hours ago, BigO said:

Yea I’d gave to now agree with that strategy. I remember Fouts. He was insane for a few years. Winslow and Jefferson were unstoppable! Came within an eyelash if taking Jefferson. One of my favorite WR’s of all time. 

 

when i was a kid,  id play mock football games in my moms living room.  i destroyed her good furniture. anyway i was mostly the chargers but fouts, joiner, chandler and winslow. w a nerf id throw the ball if it hit the right pillows itd be caught then id switch to the receiver and dive and run into the chairs and stuff...

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Sounds familiar 

My front 7 had 

585 sacks

42 pro bowls 

Yes, but would it win on FanDuel? ?

[New York Mick]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yes, but would it win on FanDuel? ?

Everywhere but NY/NJ

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

Your 4 downlineman are sick. And your CB Tandem is probably my favorite. I actually love Houston roaming behind those two CBs. My only issue is with your LBs on D

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Your 4 downlineman are sick. And your CB Tandem is probably my favorite. 

@Jetsfan80 implying that Champ Bailey and Albert Lewis would be “overmatched” by Chad Johnson and Demaryius Thomas is the most offensive thing I’ve ever seen on the internet.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

@Jetsfan80 implying that Champ Bailey and Albert Lewis would be “overmatched” by Chad Johnson and Demaryius Thomas is the most offensive thing I’ve ever seen on the internet.

Gronk tho

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

@Jetsfan80 implying that Champ Bailey and Albert Lewis would be “overmatched” by Chad Johnson and Demaryius Thomas is the most offensive thing I’ve ever seen on the internet.

My two all time most underrated CB would Albert Lewis and Louis Wright. Two fairly overrated modern day WRs would be Chad Johnson and Demaryius Thomas. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, BigO said:

Wow he’s pretty mature for a 19 year old. Coulda fooled me. 

lol, I'm 32.  Tom's just mad he's losing.  Fortunately this isn't a simple "winner moves on" situation, and I think he can make it into Round 2. 

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Gronk tho

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

 

His O-Line is far superior.  This is undeniable. 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, HessStation said:

My two all time most underrated CB would Albert Lewis and Louis Wright. Two fairly overrated modern day WRs would be Chad Johnson and Demaryius Thomas. 

I don't think either WR is special, but you have to account for all of the personnel on offense.  You can't just leave those 2 open and double cover both Gronk and Sterling Sharpe. 

And blitzing won't work well either.  Great O-Line and a QB who, if nothing else, is adept at escaping pressure. 

[greenwichjetfan]

4 hours ago, slats said:

I can't believe some of these QBs got picked while Fouts is still out there. That's the guy I thought @JiF was targeting, and then I thought he just fell into gjf's hands. 

 

6 hours ago, HessStation said:

My mind shifts to what bothers me most as I look at these things. Sorry but everyone’s teams are so stacked it’s just where it goes. 

Tom: Mecklenburg at 43OLB is a bad fit. Him and Sam Mills both inside in a 34 would have been huge. Both a bit out of position for me.

Greenwhich: but you do the same thing taking two elite 34 OLBs and place them in a 43...80 did the exact same thing. Seymour’s greatness came from being in a 34 at DE. Another bad scheme fit. Also Polamalu would get lit as a FS. Greenwich’s names on D are ridiculous but they’re sorta hodgepodged together in the wrong schemes/fit.

 

Greenwhich has probably one of the best teams by name recognition, but why why not go with Fouts or Stabler over Wilson. Would have been so much sexier imo.

 

Seriously, if Greenwhich just made his d a 34, moved Darnold to 5 tech (which is more believable imo) and found a true NT and anothe 34 ILB...OMG. Legit terror of a d

 

Greenwhich has one of my favorite OL so far.  But Tom’s right side. 

 

Tom has my favorite DL so far...

Tom also has my two favorite pairings of corners in the draft (I think). 

If you look at when my guys were taken, you’ll notice that I was going for a 3-4 base when I started, but as the rounds continued and there were 98 picks between my sets of 4 picks, I started realizing that trying to do a 3-4 with second tier guys while there were still perennial all-pros and hall of famers out there would be stupid. 

Ultimately, my goal was to get the best players. If we had to choose everything based on the schemes they ran, then my HoF RB wouldn’t function with (IMO) the best OL in our league because half of my OL wouldn’t even know what a zone blocking scheme is.

Within the DL and LB corp, I decided to grab players that could play the run and rush the quarterback. Additionally, in a 46 defense, the Jack and Charlie backers constantly switch roles play to play, so if I’m playing a team that has a TE running a pattern, Brazile can go out and cover while Ware can blitz. 

I’m not sure why you’d say Polamalu would get lit as a FS. He was one of the hardest hitting and best ballhawking safeties in the modern NFL going up against bigger and stronger players than a lot of the guys from the past. He played against the likes of TO, Moss, Megatron, Gronk....it’s not like his size was a limiting factor for him. I’d say he’s actually my best playmaker behind Russell and maybe Gronk on my entire team. Both of my safeties can play both safety position, and once again the versatility and talent is what I was going for. 

Ultimately people will vote how they vote and this is all fun and games. I get what you’re saying about being scheme dependent, but we’re talking subtle variations. It’s not like I’m taking Seymour and asking him to play OL or even LB. 

Regarding QB: I never saw Fouts play. For the most important position in teams sports, I wanted a player that I had judged with my own eyes as a top talent. Also, wasn’t Fouts the leader of the run and gun? I’m fairly certain the conflicts with your philosophy of taking scheme fits, since none of my WRs or RB had ever played in that type of system, so then that pick would have been panned too, lol.

 

================

 

I like my OL vs Tom’s DL and think we’d play ball control offense with TD running at a 4.5 you clip. Reggie and Dwight are nasty and Wilfork is a beast, but I think my OL matches up extremely well. I like my QBs mobility and scrambling/playmaking ability against Tom’s pass rush. I think Ben is one of the hardest QBs to play against. You can scheme a free rusher and have him get to Ben only to have Ben shake him off or absorb his hit and keep the play alive. But I love my front 7 against his OL, and I think even a guy like Ben would have issues after repeatedly taking hits. I think Champ would stifle any of my 3 wideouts, but I think Gronk would have a career day against anyone that matched up on him on Tom’s defense. 

Overall, I know there are going to be games that I’m going to lose easily because I’ve seen some of the other teams out there, but I think I matchup with Tom’s team particularly well and think my squad would get a win in a real game.

[slats]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

So I'll explain this because it was actually down to those 2 when I picked.  Obviously, Fouts operating that offense with my personnel would have been amazing to watch and that was actually my plan when the QB's I really wanted started flying off the board.  It just so happened I was having dinner with my folks right around this pick, my Pops is 82.  So I asked him, who would you rather have Jurgs or Fouts?  He said Jurgs without hesitation. 

I take my Pops word for a lot of sports that happened before my time but he said nobody could throw the ball like Jurgs.  He was the best pure passer he's ever seen.  Before Namath, Marino, Moon - it was Sonny.  He was doing things in an era that was unheard of and he did it mostly on bad teams. He's never seen a QB with a better spiral, placement, long ball, etc.  Whereas he thought Fouts was a system guy that didnt really have anything magical about his game the way Sonny did. He said watching Sonny was like a guy playing a different sport. 

It made me look it up and then I started seeing quotes from people about Jurgs...like Lombardi, Shula, etc. and then I watched some NFL films on him and just fell in love with the dude.  He's just a regular Joe who loved booze and woman who just happened to have a gift from god attached to his shoulder.  Whereas, when I did the same with Fouts, I came away hating him.  Just seemed like an arrogant big mouth who choked in the big moments. 

 

He's before my time, too. His career was winding down as I was a little kid just starting to watch the NFL. Could be that you made the right choice is a bunch of experts were voting, but you have to figure the JN knuckleheads who actually are. @BigO learned the hard way. 

[BigO]

   1 hour ago,  T0mShane said: 

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

Sounds familiar 

My front 7 had 

585 sacks

42 pro bowls 

   1 hour ago,  T0mShane said: 

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

——————————-/—/—————

My team

562 sacks

47 Pro bowls

30 All Pro Bowls

141 forced fumbles

and that’s NOT even factoring in Howley, Weinmeister, and George whose sacks, FF were unaccounted for during that time  ??‍♂️

 

[BigO]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

He's before my time, too. His career was winding down as I was a little kid just starting to watch the NFL. Could be that you made the right choice is a bunch of experts were voting, but you have to figure the JN knuckleheads who actually are. @BigO learned the hard way. 

JNKF Jet Nation Knucklehead Forum

I like it!

[New York Mick]

12 minutes ago, BigO said:

   1 hour ago,  T0mShane said: 

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

   1 hour ago,  T0mShane said: 

My front seven:

563 career sacks

149 forced fumbles

40 Pro Bowl Appearances

18 1st Team All Pro

 

Greenwich's front seven:

423.5 career sacks

80 FF

37 Pro Bowls

19 1st team All Pro

——————————-/—/—————

My team

562 sacks

47 Pro bowls

30 All Pro Bowls

141 forced fumbles

and that’s NOT even factoring in Howley, Weinmeister, and George whose sacks, FF were unaccounted for during that time  ??‍♂️

 

At least I’m winning something lol

[greenwichjetfan]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

I kind of agree with that.  

My knock on Tom's team, he doesn't have a real deep weapon.   Toon was great, but not a real deep WR, Anquan the same.  

Greenwich kind of has 3-4 olbs playing in a 4-3 type.   Elvis wasn't a real big guy, I think he'd get swallowed up by that line.   I like Russell Wilson, but I think it's too early to put him in the top 25 of all time conversation.

Both guys did a good job.   Again, it's not an easy vote.

My DLine picks, especially in the later rounds, were motivated by the Buddy/Rex 46 philosophy. They believed in a DL that took pressure off the LBs and CBS by rushing the passer from the interior of the line. It’s a little different than something like Tom’s traditional 3-4 line which features a beefy beast like Wilfork at NT to swallow up blockers, a DT to close the gap, and two nasty DEs whose primary goals is to bite the head off the QB.

For my 46 DL, I have Elvis, Donald who is turning into the next great DL, the current record holder for most sacks from the DT position, and Seymour. Every single one of them gets after the QB.

 

Regarding Russell, I’m not putting him in the top 25 of all time. I just feel that his mobility and playmaking capabilities are a huge positive to supplement my beast OL to neutralize a lot of the ferocious pass rushers on everyone’s teams.

[BigO]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

So I'll explain this because it was actually down to those 2 when I picked.  Obviously, Fouts operating that offense with my personnel would have been amazing to watch and that was actually my plan when the QB's I really wanted started flying off the board.  It just so happened I was having dinner with my folks right around this pick, my Pops is 82.  So I asked him, who would you rather have Jurgs or Fouts?  He said Jurgs without hesitation. 

I take my Pops word for a lot of sports that happened before my time but he said nobody could throw the ball like Jurgs.  He was the best pure passer he's ever seen.  Before Namath, Marino, Moon - it was Sonny.  He was doing things in an era that was unheard of and he did it mostly on bad teams. He's never seen a QB with a better spiral, placement, long ball, etc.  Whereas he thought Fouts was a system guy that didnt really have anything magical about his game the way Sonny did. He said watching Sonny was like a guy playing a different sport. 

It made me look it up and then I started seeing quotes from people about Jurgs...like Lombardi, Shula, etc. and then I watched some NFL films on him and just fell in love with the dude.  He's just a regular Joe who loved booze and woman who just happened to have a gift from god attached to his shoulder.  Whereas, when I did the same with Fouts, I came away hating him.  Just seemed like an arrogant big mouth who choked in the big moments. 

 

There’s a video on NFL films where Jurgonsen flips a pass  behind his back that travels on a rope 30 yards easily. Fvckin amazing. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

BUMP.  This matchup ends tomorrow at 2:20 PM EST. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

10 hours ago, HessStation said:

My two all time most underrated CB would Albert Lewis and Louis Wright. Two fairly overrated modern day WRs would be Chad Johnson and Demaryius Thomas. 

I'll take that as one vote of confidence in my CB selection. Louis Wright was a big corner -- 6'2" 200 pounds. And he was quick with good hands. Took a look at some of the video on him and he was quite impressive. Those guys could hit back then too.

[Jetsfan80]

BUMP.  About 2 hours left.