Kleckineau Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how-kellen-winslow-ii-went-from-nfl-star-to-accused-serial-rapist/ar-BBLiTbw?ocid=spartandhp How Kellen Winslow II went from NFL star to accused serial rapist VISTA, Calif. – The witness known as Jane Doe 2 moved closer to the microphone when she was asked to speak up. She appeared to be avoiding eye contact with the defendant, Kellen Winslow II, the retired NFL player who sat across the courtroom. One of his attorneys asked the 58-year-old homeless woman about having testified Winslow choked her during sexual intercourse. “It wasn’t intercourse,’’ she responded. “It was rape. You need to use your words correctly, sir.’’ It was the morning of July 12, and tension was rising inside the North County Division of the San Diego Superior Court during a pretrial hearing in a case that’s as disturbing as it is confounding. Winslow, 35, is the son of an NFL Hall of Famer; the sixth overall pick in the 2004 NFL draft who made almost $40 million in salary as a tight end during his 10-year pro career; and the husband of his high school sweetheart and father of their two young children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 When I watch these crazy incidents with guys like him and Hernandez and Rothslisberger I wonder if CTE contributes to them engaging in this kind of behavior. Not that it makes a difference. He still should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 When I watch these crazy incidents with guys like him and Hernandez and Rothslisberger I wonder if CTE contributes to them engaging in this kind of behavior. Not that it makes a difference. He still should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.Thats an interesting thought. I am sure there is something wrong with his brain just not sure there is a direct correlation between CTE and this sort of behavior.Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: When I watch these crazy incidents with guys like him and Hernandez and Rothslisberger I wonder if CTE contributes to them engaging in this kind of behavior. Not that it makes a difference. He still should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. No. There is no correlation between CTE and violent behavior. But some lawyers will try and create one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, johnnysd said: No. There is no correlation between CTE and violent behavior. But some lawyers will try and create one. exactly, with all the press of NFL/concussions etc, a good lawyer will roll dice order a Scan of Brain and hope there is a anamoly he can get 'sone Dr.' to say it is signs of CTE and hope for lenient sentencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: When I watch these crazy incidents with guys like him and Hernandez and Rothslisberger I wonder if CTE contributes to them engaging in this kind of behavior. Not that it makes a difference. He still should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. No. This sh*t happens every single day. Every single day. You just hear about it more from public figures because on a national level, no one cares when a poor person rapes/molests another poor person/child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, johnnysd said: No. There is no correlation between CTE and violent behavior. But some lawyers will try and create one. There are differing viewpoints on this: https://melmagazine.com/the-connection-between-concussions-cte-and-acts-of-violence-65330058f80 But it doesn't mean that these perpetrators should be punished any less, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Eh, Chris Benoit murdering his wife and son seems to be pretty clearly linked to CTE to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Eh, Chris Benoit murdering his wife and son seems to be pretty clearly linked to CTE to me. Think roids are more likely. Or maybe he was just always just crazy and real violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchmemory Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, flgreen said: Think roids are more likely. Or maybe he was just always just crazy and real violent Or maybe they weren't listening? Too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, flgreen said: Think roids are more likely. Or maybe he was just always just crazy and real violent "Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient."[122] He was reported to have had an advanced form of dementia, similar to the brains of four retired NFL players who had suffered multiple concussions, sank into depression, and harmed themselves or others. Bailes and his colleagues concluded that repeated concussions can lead to dementia, which can contribute to severe behavioural problems.[122] I'm not gonna say 'roids weren't involved but I think common sense dictates that killing your wife on Friday, your son on Saturday, then yourself on Sunday is more than "roid rage." The guy was messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, TeddEY said: No. This sh*t happens every single day. Every single day. You just hear about it more from public figures because on a national level, no one cares when a poor person rapes/molests another poor person/child. Nobody cares when people have CTE and it isn't from professional sports. There are plenty of ways to get concussions and traumatic brain injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Wonder how many concussions John Wayne Gacy had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgivs21 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 53 minutes ago, johnnysd said: No. There is no correlation between CTE and violent behavior. But some lawyers will try and create one. No? Didn't Junior Seau shoot himself? I think that's pretty violent. What about that wrestler who killed himself & his family - Benoit? He was found to have severe CTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, flgreen said: Think roids are more likely. Or maybe he was just always just crazy and real violent I’ve known a lot of juicers in my day Powerlifting for over 25 years. If your not an a$$hole before you do steroids you’re pretty much OK. If your a big a$$hole before you do steroids your just a bigger a$$hole on them. Tons of people commit violent crimes and don’t do steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Sure, it's possible he has a damaged melon but just its as possible he was a born sociopathic sexual deviant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Eh, Chris Benoit murdering his wife and son seems to be pretty clearly linked to CTE to me. Pain killers, concussions, host of other issues. Wrestlers get tons of concussions, and since its entertainment they get little to no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, MaxAF said: I’ve known a lot of juicers in my day Powerlifting for over 25 years. If your not an a$$hole before you do steroids you’re pretty much OK. If your a big a$$hole before you do steroids your just a bigger a$$hole on them. Tons of people commit violent crimes and don’t do steroids. Actually I agree. This CTE thing being blamed for everything football players do off the field is getting old. Guess roids fall into the same category. Some people are just violent A holes. A lot of them actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, chirorob said: Pain killers, concussions, host of other issues. Wrestlers get tons of concussions, and since its entertainment they get little to no help. Right. CTE from the concussions... Painkillers/steroids are a big part of why so many die young but I think it's hard not to link the Benoit situation to CTE/concussions. He clearly lost his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, flgreen said: Actually I agree. This CTE thing being blamed for everything football players do off the field is getting old. Guess roids fall into the same category. Some people are just violent A holes. A lot of them actually Yupper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said: Right. CTE from the concussions... Painkillers/steroids are a big part of why so many die young but I think it's hard not to link the Benoit situation to CTE/concussions. He clearly lost his mind. Benoit’s Wikipedia page was edited to say his wife died one week before it happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I can't even fathom how horrific it must be to get on the stand and relive something so traumatizing. Kudos to that lady. I don't think I'll ever do anything in my life that takes that much courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said: When I watch these crazy incidents with guys like him and Hernandez and Rothslisberger I wonder if CTE contributes to them engaging in this kind of behavior. Not that it makes a difference. He still should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. No, they are just sh*tty people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: Nobody cares when people have CTE and it isn't from professional sports. There are plenty of ways to get concussions and traumatic brain injuries. I can't imagine you're suggesting causality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 6 hours ago, flgreen said: Wonder how many concussions John Wayne Gacy had? he got one playing linebacker a week before his first kill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReallyBigFan Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 14 hours ago, johnnysd said: No. There is no correlation between CTE and violent behavior. But some lawyers will try and create one. Actually, there are a boatload of studies now showing an absolute correlation between CTE and violent behavior. Now, that does not mean that every perpetrator of violence suffers from CTE. But there are so many documented cases of people, who were later determined to be suffering from CTE, who underwent dramatic personality change and developed a tendency towards violent outbursts which they had never shown previously in their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReallyBigFan Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 13 hours ago, flgreen said: Actually I agree. This CTE thing being blamed for everything football players do off the field is getting old. Guess roids fall into the same category. Some people are just violent A holes. A lot of them actually Yeah, I think it would behoove you to do a bit more research into CTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 16 hours ago, flgreen said: Wonder how many concussions John Wayne Gacy had? There’s probably many reasons he became the person he was. But his father did beat him when he was kid and knocked him out by hitting him on the head with broom stick. I know you were being sarcastic but Gacy likely had at least one. My guess is the psychological played a bigger role though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ReallyBigFan said: Yeah, I think it would behoove you to do a bit more research into CTE. You also my friend. From everything that I have read, they really don't know all that much about it. Different people have different opinions but very little is fact. So far all they really know is that when you rattle your brain repeately it gets damaged. The ultimate outcome? Unknown. To blame CTE for all the misbehavior of NFL players, or every time one of these guys does something horrific to say "Oh that's clearly CTE" is a major reach. People do all kinds of things that are horrible with out ever having had a concussion. Is there some connection? I don't know, neither do the researchers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 1 hour ago, GreenFish said: There’s probably many reasons he became the person he was. But his father did beat him when he was kid and knocked him out by hitting him on the head with broom stick. I know you were being sarcastic but Gacy likely had at least one. My guess is the psychological played a bigger role though. Think that would be a pretty good guess. Look at boxers. How many concussions do you think a boxer will get in 20 years of boxing? Does it damage, and affect their brain? Of course. That's why it's called punch drunk. Does it make them violent criminals? Hard to see any consistent real evidence there. Every body knows being stuck in the head repeatedly is going to lead to long term damage to a person. CTE has been around for ever. It's suddenly become the PC thing to explain bad behavior for NFL players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 1) The type of personality that decides to play a violent game + 2) Socipathic tendencies + 3) Steroids/PEDs + 4) CTE That's a dangerous cocktail. Parsing out which of those 4 is the "primary cause" of violent behavior, or determining what % blame belongs to each, for ex-football players is difficult, but pretty necessary. It's not a good idea to dismiss any one of those factors when looking at case studies like Chris Henry, Aaron Hernandez, Kellen Winslow, Junior Seau, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 And operating under the assumption that CTE can't cause violent behavior is downright ignorant. Of course it can. You're harming the brain, and the brain is very delicate and complex. No two brains with CTE are the same. If it impacts the frontal lobe/prefrontal cortex, there goes your decision-making center, leaving behind a lot of "lizard brain" tendencies. We've had reports of players with CTE hearing voices in their heads telling them to hurt others or themselves. If that isn't alarming I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 And yeah, I know those above 2 posts were straight out of a potential episode of "Psychology talkin' guys". Symbolic Penis and what-not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: And operating under the assumption that CTE can't cause violent behavior is downright ignorant. Of course it can. You're harming the brain, and the brain is very delicate and complex. No two brains with CTE are the same. If it impacts the frontal lobe/prefrontal cortex, there goes your decision-making center, leaving behind a lot of "lizard brain" tendencies. We've had reports of players with CTE hearing voices in their heads telling them to hurt others or themselves. If that isn't alarming I don't know what is. Sure, but it's a dangerous proposition to state that CTE made me do it, when we see plenty of violence and similar behavior. Far more in fact, in people with significantly lower likelihood of CTE, including in young adolescence before things like football become a factor. A/H, including ones of violent command nature, are also not terribly uncommon. Some research suggests that it's up to 15% of the population has had experience w/ "hearing voices." When you look at diagnostic rates of Schizophrenia in poor black men, it shouldn't be terribly surprising that some NFL players indeed, experience A/H. Now, there may be, but I'm not aware of any link between them and brain injury. Also, in general, A/H are thought to be related to issues in the temporal lobe, which, again, not a neurologist, but I do not believe are as likely to be effected by concussions. Lastly, agreed, symbolic penis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReallyBigFan Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, flgreen said: You also my friend. From everything that I have read, they really don't know all that much about it. Different people have different opinions but very little is fact. So far all they really know is that when you rattle your brain repeately it gets damaged. The ultimate outcome? Unknown. To blame CTE for all the misbehavior of NFL players, or every time one of these guys does something horrific to say "Oh that's clearly CTE" is a major reach. People do all kinds of things that are horrible with out ever having had a concussion. Is there some connection? I don't know, neither do the researchers I certainly didn't suggest that CTE is to blame for every time a football player misbehaves, nor have I read anyone who does say that. But there is ample and growing evidence showing that it does cause personality changes, rage, and often violence, often directed at self, but not just. And if you read my post you saw that I said that even though studies show that CTE does cause violent behavior, obviously not every act of violence is from someone with CTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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