Mike Maccagnan has built a Jets team he can believe in

[Sperm Edwards]

10 wins and a playoff push! Happy times!

aka “Remember that time 3 years ago when we almost made the playoffs after blasting through 2 years’ worth of FA contracts in 1 offseason?”

It’s all good. Once every 4 years, after whiffing on 5 draft picks, we’ll end up with an UFDA we can cheer about. An UDFA like Snacks...who Maccagnan screwed up retaining so we could rent any number of his ridiculous acquisitions.

Anderson!! Obviously he’s worth 20 draft picks and 20 veteran contracts, since that’s what he apparently cancels out.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

10 wins and a playoff push! Happy times!

aka “Remember that time 3 years ago when we almost made the playoffs after blasting through 2 years’ worth of FA contracts in 1 offseason?”

It’s all good. Once every 4 years, after whiffing on 5 draft picks, we’ll end up with an UFDA we can cheer about. An UDFA like Snacks...who Maccagnan screwed up retaining so we could rent any number of his ridiculous acquisitions.

Anderson!! Obviously he’s worth 20 draft picks and 20 veteran contracts, since that’s what he apparently cancels out.

We spent a lot of money on aging players and almost made the playoffs 3 years ago and you are not impressed?  SOJF alert right here.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

We spent a lot of money on aging players and almost made the playoffs 3 years ago and you are not impressed?  SOJF alert right here.

Plus the multitude of favorable matchups (playing a good amount of teams without many of their key starters) just to reach “almost made the playoffs one time 3 years ago” lol.

I admit I’m hard to please.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I admit I’m hard to please.

I hope to have a son one day and I hope to tell him about the time the Jets almost made the playoffs in 2015 against the leagues easiest schedule.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I hope to have a son one day and I hope to tell him about the time the Jets almost made the playoffs in 2015 against the leagues easiest schedule.

With a long gray beard, smoking a pipe, in front of a roaring fire. Oh, the tales you’ll tell.

[RutgersJetFan]

It's the same team as last year.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

It's the same team as last year.

Same fans that are giddy in August and are sad by the time they actually start playing games. 

[dbatesman]

43 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Hes had 3 years, hes a big, fat INC

So when, exactly, does he become responsible for the team's win-loss record? Not this year, obviously. How about 2019? 2020? Later than that?

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, dbatesman said:

So when, exactly, does he become responsible for the team's win-loss record? Not this year, obviously. How about 2019? 2020? Later than that?

When John Idzik is dead.

[jgb]

I don’t trust Macc outside of the top 6 in the first round in the draft. He should go mike ditka for Ricky Williams every year.

[UntouchableCrew]

I think there's something to be said for the fact that he was clearly under an edict from Woody to improve the team immediately in 2015 rather than doing the "from scratch" rebuild he started last year. Most of the bad contracts offered during that time initially worked. Sure, nobody is giving out kudos for almost making the playoffs one year (and the subsequent implosion in 2016 is on him) but everything about that off-season (most notably paying out the @$$ for Revis) reeks of Woody. 

In general my biggest issues with Maccagnan center on what I perceive to be poor drafting. I think despite some misfires his moves in FA have generally made sense. But when you hire a former scout who's a "personnel guy" I think you're looking for more hits in the draft. 

In the first three rounds we've landed:

Leonard Williams -- Very good player who's been a bit underwhelming

Devin Smith -- Total bust. Made of glass, released with, what, 150 career yards?

Lorenzo Mauldin -- Seems like a jag who can't make an impact as a pass rusher on a team that desperately needs pass rushers.

Darron Lee -- Undersized linebacker who doesn't seem to display the athleticism he's clocked at and seems to lack instincts for the position. Lots of puff pieces about how improved he is, let's hope so.

Christian Hackenberg -- Would be the worst draft pick in franchise history if Vernon Gholston didn't go in the top 6.

Jordan Jenkins -- Edge setting LB good against the run. Not much of a difference maker.

Jamal Adams -- Culture changing strong safety who was elite against the run but struggled in coverage last year. Call me a homer but I'm still a believer he's going to be really good.

Marcus Maye -- ....another... safety. Played pretty well as a rookie.

Ardarius Stewart -- Has shown very little and looks like he's questionable to make the roster in his second year.

So in 9 picks in the first three rounds we've gotten nothing whatsoever on offense (epic bust QB, epic bust WR, another WR who looks like a zero) a good d-lineman, and two good safeties. When you're looking to rebuild through the draft you need to hit more than that.

The good news is that the early returns on the 2018 draft class already seem to indicate this is his best class -- it looks like Shepherd can play and the early returns on Herndon, Nickerson, and Cannon all seem positive, and obviously Darnold could change the teams fortunes. But that needs to become consistent.

If the impact of Heimerdinger is as significant as some have indicated let's all hope he doesn't get vultured away by another organization to be their GM.

 

[Jetsplayer21]

24 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Same fans that are giddy in August and are sad by the time they actually start playing games. 

Stop being such a “ voice of reason “ ?‍♂️

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

So when, exactly, does he become responsible for the team's win-loss record? Not this year, obviously. How about 2019? 2020? Later than that?

After this year it's time to put up or go away IMO.  Not while at the very start of a rebuild.  Hard to tear apart a W/L record after dumping most of the team.  And that first rebuild draft being a 2 year group.  He eventually gets,ripped and fired if he deserves it.  

Look around at all the successful teams who fire their GMs after 3 years. 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

After this year it's time to put up or go away IMO.  Not while at the very start of a rebuild.  Hard to tear apart a W/L record after dumping most of the team.  And that first rebuild draft being a 2 year group.  He eventually gets,ripped and fired if he deserves it.  

Look around at all the successful teams who fire their GMs after 3 years. 

Maybe those teams are successful because they don’t hire terrible GMs in the first place who warrant being fired after 3 years. Let’s not confuse correlation with causation.

[MDL_JET]

Can't wait for Mac to get another extension after this year. 

[varjet]

In the end this team will be judged by its record.

Mac has made an enormous number of flubs, but every team does boneheaded teams.

Let's see where this team stands, in 2018, compared to the rest of the NFL.  

I personally think they will be a bit better, middle of the pack, which would be a better than last year and other teams.  This is in large part due to the Jets bringing in more and people to support Mac.  Mac is kind of a figurehead right now.  

[varjet]

56 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If the impact of Heimerdinger is as significant as some have indicated let's all hope he doesn't get vultured away by another organization to be their GM.

 

A football team can't have enough good brains.

They should make Mac the President and Heimerdinger the GM, and pay them both fairly.

If Mac does not add enough value in a few years, then he can go.  

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

That's clearly the To-do list right there.  I agree, I wish he would have addressed OLine and our passrush search has been almost as bad as our Hunt for Red Quarterback.  But....he got the QB.  Passrusher is next and OLine, well.....we'll see.  Macc has shown a propensity to go after OTs in free agency (Clady, Beachum) rather than with high draft picks (Shell was a mid/late round guy).  But again, that's the priority list...

1. Pass rusher

2. Improve the OLine (find our next LT and get younger at C/G with a rookie)

3. Add the shiny toys, the elite WR, the game-changing RB (and last year shows that you can get excellent RB talent in middle rounds....Dalvin Cook, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara)

There will always be work to do on the roster but I'm glad that we have at least checked the QB box this year.  That's the hardest one.

You can find very good centers in the 3rd round.

[Freemanm]

21 hours ago, rangerous said:

the big issue is not finding those true impact players and a qb.  just about every move he made to get rid of the older players would've been done by any gm.  and he didn't make any great moves to bring in more than average players, at least during his first two seasons.  trumaine johnson and even claiborne seem to be pretty solid as do mcclendon and williamson.  we'll see what happens on the oline.  and his drafts haven't been all that great either. this season will be telling.

I won't doubt that Macc has had some bad whiffs in the draft, and I'm not just talking about Hackenberg. Taking Ardarius Stewart over OL Pat Elflein in the third rd of the 2017 draft was an incredibly bad move, given how thin we are at the position. On the flip side he took advantage of the Giants' stupidiity in taking a running back (albeit a great one) with the #2 pick instead of a QB, IMO.

But has he had anymore misses than any other GM over the past three years? I haven't really tracked the other teams. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Maybe those teams are successful because they don’t hire terrible GMs in the first place who warrant being fired after 3 years. Let’s not confuse correlation with causation.

Because in your estimation Macc has done a terrible job and deserves to be fired?  

Theyre rebuilding, you don't fire someone after being two years in.  The answer doesn't fit the scenario. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

Can't wait for Mac to get another extension after this year. 

Me too.  That would mean we had a good year

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Because in your estimation Macc has done a terrible job and deserves to be fired?  

Theyre rebuilding, you don't fire someone after being two years in.  The answer doesn't fit the scenario. 

No. What I am saying is that “successful programs don’t fire their GMs after 3 years” is not an argument that has any bearing on what Macc’s fate should be.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

No. What I am saying is that “successful programs don’t fire their GMs after 3 years” is not an argument that has any bearing on what Macc’s fate should be.

As I said he's dumped out the roster and is rebuilding.  Thinking they wouldn't struggle to win games initially isn't part of the equation and shouldn't have decided his fate.  Moving forward, yes.  

[rangerous]

41 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

I won't doubt that Macc has had some bad whiffs in the draft, and I'm not just talking about Hackenberg. Taking Ardarius Stewart over OL Pat Elflein in the third rd of the 2017 draft was an incredibly bad move, given how thin we are at the position. On the flip side he took advantage of the Giants' stupidiity in taking a running back (albeit a great one) with the #2 pick instead of a QB, IMO.

But has he had anymore misses than any other GM over the past three years? I haven't really tracked the other teams. 

i don't know.  maybe sperm will do some background analysis instead of using ad hominem attacks on mac or trotting out anecdotal stories as many of us fans do.  at some point the drafts will be judged.  right now his first one hasn't turned out so hot and the hackenberg saga really dragged down the second one.  getting darnold was a very good move and it looks like adams and maye are going to be real keepers.  the problem is that he needs to get about 10 new players each season just to keep ahead of attrition and they aren't all going to be camp fodder types.

imo this is a big season for mac's draft picks to really start paying dividends.

[dbatesman]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Because in your estimation Macc has done a terrible job and deserves to be fired?  

Theyre rebuilding, you don't fire someone after being two years in.  The answer doesn't fit the scenario. 

You must have been super pissed when we fired Idzik.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

As I said he's dumped out the roster and is rebuilding.  Thinking they wouldn't struggle to win games initially isn't part of the equation and shouldn't have decided his fate.  Moving forward, yes.  

That’s a fair observation, but I think everyone can agree that whether his time of judgment is now or not yet, it’s coming soon in any case.

[rangerous]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Because in your estimation Macc has done a terrible job and deserves to be fired?  

Theyre rebuilding, you don't fire someone after being two years in.  The answer doesn't fit the scenario. 

i'm not advocating launching mac or even bowles but at some point his drafts and other acquired players have got to start working out in a bug way.  this was his fourth draft and by all accounts he landed a really big fish in darnold.  let's see if he can capitalise on this success and build a great team.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, dbatesman said:

You must have been super pissed when we fired Idzik.

Yeah, I would draw that same conclusion.

Idzik has nothing to do with this.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

After this year it's time to put up or go away IMO.  Not while at the very start of a rebuild.  Hard to tear apart a W/L record after dumping most of the team.  And that first rebuild draft being a 2 year group.  He eventually gets,ripped and fired if he deserves it.  

Look around at all the successful teams who fire their GMs after 3 years. 

So year six is when we can really start to judge the GM? Seems like a bit much. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So year six is when we can really start to judge the GM? Seems like a bit much. 

I look at it his way—Bowles is a defensive head coach so garbage defenses should inpugn him more than bad offenses. Macc is a former head scout so draft whiffs should count double against him than they do against a cap master like idzik.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, jgb said:

That’s a fair observation, but I think everyone can agree that whether his time of judgment is now or not yet, it’s coming soon in any case.

All I'm saying.  The time is coming really soon.  Hopefully it works, smoothest way to successfully move forward as opposed to dumping out and starting over.  But if this draft doesn't pan out, even if Darnold does, the pressure will and should mount.  Though I never get the impression attending games that those fans are as concerned as fans on forums

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So year six is when we can really start to judge the GM? Seems like a bit much. 

Math isn't workin,  we''re playing season 4. 

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Love that you think I was talking just to your post.  LOL

He had a choice, he could have stood pat an wound up with a QB.  Then we would be killing him for not moving up and winding up with Darnold.  Its the beauty of being a MMQB.

Plenty have rated Macc only by the picks after he lucked into Williams, Adams and Darnold.  From his first draft we've heard this unique style of criticism.  Blame him for the picks that dont pan out, dont give him credit for the ones that do because anyone could have picked them.  Except anyone didnt.

And yes, many blow off Anderson for example. 

I dont understand how after only a couple of drafts, with obvious ups and downs but with a real good 2018 draft shaping anyone would insist on calling someone an incompetent boob, atrocious or whatever negative name we can come up because were too impatient 

Much of this is common speak for the blind supporters who insist on taking an "All or nothing" approach to Macc's approval rating....

and I say that coming from a place where I think Macc is a GOOD gm... I really do think he runs the business end of this sport well. He makes good decisions on the whole, FA is handled...OK, maybe some more love at skill positions, but i'm not losing sleep over it... The players we've cut, have retired or scked balls.

...The draft though. Call it what it is -- a blatant weakness. There are ways to make improvements here if he's open to bringing in support at that level. Lots of teams employ an Aaron Wolfe of sorts who help make draft decisions.

• We have every right to blow off Anderson. Macc had nothing to do with that, other than say "Fine" when some scouting people/personnel department said, we want to sign this guy (along with 25 other UDFAs/FAs that summer).
• Macc took all thinking out of the equation with picks like Leo and Jamal... the one he did have to make a decision on? That would be the Lee's, Hackenbergs, Smiths, etc... not a great record. taking Todd Gurley over Williams would have shown some spine/balls. You tell me who moves the needle more on the field for us, who shows up in the win column, adding more dlineman for the sake of redundancy, or drafting one of, if not THE best running back in the NFL right now.... so spare me the "savy" move taking Williams. That was easy peasy chicken sh*t choice IMO
• And of course he had to trade up for #3... that wasn't even an option to stay put. Anyone was going to leapfrog us. That was just a business decision.

Its ok to say he has had issue with drafting... and not mean that you hate him.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, varjet said:

A football team can't have enough good brains.

They should make Mac the President and Heimerdinger the GM, and pay them both fairly.

If Mac does not add enough value in a few years, then he can go.  

What qualifies Maccagnan to be president of an NFL franchise if he’s being relieved of his GM duties?

I could see that role for someone who has a good idea of what a winning team can’t do without and merely executes badly, or a former successful GM/HC who doesn’t want to put in crazy hours anymore, but a guy who prioritizes redundant, low-dollar, and abundant supply positions in the draft is not someone who should be overseeing any ballclub’s FO. 

A former HC is good in this role (e.g. Coughlin) if he isn’t force-feeding the types of players who’d fit his own system(s) onto his GM/HC. A team president should be hiring the next GM (and probably putting his thumbs on the scale when choosing a HC). Maccagnan has not proven anywhere near qualified to do either of these tasks, and frankly not even scouting from what we’ve seen from his drafts. 

[CrazyCarl40]

57 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Math isn't workin,  we''re playing season 4. 

You said judge after this year. So we’d be judging next year which would be season 5 going into offseason 6. My math is fine. Macc is not.