LOST (Merged 13X)

[Tony Soprano 661]

My bad I should have been clearer.

I am talking when Jacob visited Locke after his dad pushed him out the window. Locke looked dead on the ground, Jacob touched him and Locke drew in a breath.

Kate, Locke, Sayid and Hurley he clearly had an effect on shaping their future. Why?

Jin/Sun and Jack, not so much.

So the hanging plots are:

Whose eye opens at the end of the show?

Does Juliette live?

(Score one for us if she appears nekid next season like Desmond)

What do they mean by "new destiny"?

It was no Sopranos finale....

[SouthernJet 209,016]

My bad I should have been clearer.

I am talking when Jacob visited Locke after his dad pushed him out the window. Locke looked dead on the ground, Jacob touched him and Locke drew in a breath.

Kate, Locke, Sayid and Hurley he clearly had an effect on shaping their future. Why?

Jin/Sun and Jack, not so much.

So the hanging plots are:

Whose eye opens at the end of the show?

Does Juliette live?

(Score one for us if she appears nekid next season like Desmond)

What do they mean by "new destiny"?

haha,,trust me when I tell you that all those answers will be decided soon by a group of writers huddled together in a house on Smithcliffs Rd. in Laguna Beach whilst toking on a bong.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

It was no Sopranos finale....

apples/oranges..

it wasnt the series finale, just the season finale..

next year we get the hype over the SERIES finale

[PFSIKH 101,506]

haha,,trust me when I tell you that all those answers will be decided soon by a group of writers huddled together in a house on Smithcliffs Rd. in Laguna Beach whilst toking on a bong.

Yeah and we have to wait 8 months to see the beginning and a year for the conclusion.

[Jetlag 40,917]

Yeah and we have to wait 8 months to see the beginning and a year for the conclusion.

Do you guys think they put shows like 24 and Lost opposite the football season on purpose? I wonder if there is something to people watching more network TV during the week since they don't spend their entire Sunday on football.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

Do you guys think they put shows like 24 and Lost opposite the football season on purpose? I wonder if there is something to people watching more network TV during the week since they don't spend their entire Sunday on football.

no.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

Jacob and Esau Bible Story Puzzled Over by Puzzled Lost Fans

By Robert Dougherty

Jacob and Esau is a classic Bible story, detailing how Jacob and Esau are two brothers fighting for their birthright. But for Lost, Jacob and Esau are just two more Bible references to make, and another story of literature to parallel. Jacob's significance on Lost has been speculated for three seasons, as the God-like, unseen leader of the Others. But Jacob was not alone on the island, as the Lost season finale proved. Now, the story of Jacob and Esau may be our only clues for nine months as to who is impersonating the late John Locke.

The Lost season finale didn't begin in 1977 or 2007, but possible in the mid 1800's - when the Black Rock slave ship arrived and the four toed statue was still standing. This event was marked by two men having a typically cryptic conversation - with the one in the white shirt revealed as the long awaited Jacob.

The second man, wearing a black shirt and played by Deadwood actor Titus Welliver, was never revealed by name. All we learned of him was that he has a dim view of humanity, and he wants to find a loophole to kill Jacob. And in the end of the season finale, Lost provided its biggest shock of the night by revealing he had.

The strange, resurrected John Locke was not resurrected - but in fact, was being impersonated by Jacob's long time nemesis. And this unknown man had manipulated Ben Linus all throughout the last few weeks to finally kill Jacob, which he appeared to accomplish.

In the desperate search for clues as to who this shape shifting, vengeful, possibly villainous figure is, Lost fans have searched the Bible story of Jacob and Esau. In the Bible, Jacob is a quiet, intelligent, crafty being, much like Lost's Jacob.

Esau, on the other hand, is an impulsive hunter and gatherer who blames Jacob for stealing his birthright. So Esau tries to get one up on Jacob and take power over him, perhaps like the mystery man did to Lost's Jacob last night.

But the lesson of Jacob and Esau is that it was a battle between two strong, flawed would-be leaders that had to combine their strengths to overcome their weaknesses - a common theme of Lost. Good and evil was often at a blur, as is always the case on Lost. Jacob was the chosen son, but Esau was always lurking behind the scenes - just like the Esau stand in on Lost seems to have always been lurking.

With Jacob's unnamed rival getting a decisive win in the Lost season finale, fans have nine months of Bible studying to figure out if Jacob can rise again. As if this season, with its constant Jesus and religious parallels, didn't drive enough Lost fans to study the Bible when not studying physics.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

On Lost: "The Incident" Season Finale

Wow, curse you Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse for writing what might top the Season 1 finale for most unsatisfying finale ever! Juliet striking a hydrogen bomb core with a rock was emotionally and visually stirring. Then a flash of white, cut to LOST. Except this time, it is a white background with black lettering. The inverse of what we have seen for 5 seasons. Good thing we have 8 months to think about it.

Esau and Jacob?

We don't know if Juliet succeeded in detonating the bomb; we don't know the fates of anyone. All we really have is the somewhat cryptic, "They're coming" from a dying Jacob. Jacob, the mysterious head of the Island, who we saw for the fist time today as he was literally touching the lives of many of our favorite Losties. So let's start off there. We open to a scene introducing the simple life with Jacob. We are also introduced to what seems to be an adversary/friend. He remains nameless but the striking divide between the two is one is wearing white (Jacob) the other black (Anti-Jacob?).

I am already getting theories that this Anti-Jacob is named Esau after the Genesis tale of Jacob and his brother Esau (Ee-Saw). It is a tale of the elder son Esau starving, selling his birthrights to his younger twin brother Jacob for a bowl of red lentil soup. Jacob also tricks his father Isaac (son of Abraham the founding patriarch to the Jew's, Christians, Muslims, and founder of monotheism) to give his deathbed blessing to Jacob instead of Esau. Esau told Jacob that he wanted to kill him, for what he did. Jacob went on to be renamed Israel by God and founded the Israelites tribe. Esau formed his own tribe of people the Edomites, they became associated with Romans/Europe by Jewish history.

So is Esau (I'm going to call the Anti-Jacob Esau just because its nice to give him a name) evil? This episode pegged Jacob as the "Good Guy." I'm just not sure. The "good guy-bad guy" lines have been thrown so many ways. I'm just not sure who to trust. Also, we found out that the self-assured re-born Locke doesn't seem to be re-born at all.

The second we saw Esau and his Jacob death wish, I feared that Locke, one of my favorite characters, was actually being personified by Esau. Is this a just end to one of our favorite and best characters on Lost? I think it would really upset me if the evil, conniving Ben actually ended the redemption of Locke's character. That would just make his life a sad, pathetic mess, and after all he/we was/were put through. His character deserves far more than that.

I still trust the writers enough to not lose sight of the fact that humans, while flawed, can be redeemed. There is only one season left and if I'm not mistaken, every original character's island redemption has been thrown out the window by this episode's close, aside from Rose and Bernard, who actually may have gotten it right by just living out their lives together. The reveal about where their characters have been and their life choice has all but solidified them as the "Adam and Eve" from the caves of Season 1.

While I really enjoyed this finale and it had so many great moments and reveals, my biggest gripe is that nothing was resolved. The "Losties in Dharma Time" story has not been resolved as far as we have seen. We do not know if Faraday died in vain or not. We do not know the fates of any of the characters we love whatsoever. It's all up to assumption. I understand this was the writers/producers choice, but this isn't Season 1. We don't have an unknown amount of seasons left. To me, the end of the finale last night wasn't a true season ender. None of the themes from the season were resolved. At least in Season 1 we knew that they opened the hatch. As Season 5 is officially over, we don't even know for certain if the bomb exploded or not. In Season 2, we found out what happens when you don't push the button and that outsiders actually found the island. Season 3 we found out that some of our Losties made it off the island and they have to go back. For Season 4's finale, we found out who was in the bloody coffin and that Ben was going to be a part of going back. While the Season 5 finale gave us so much in terms of answers, I think it left too little to resolve this season and set up its last. I would count this 17th episode of the 5th season as more of a 5.0 and next season as a concluding 5.5. Or to be more specific this season is the first half of the last act.

In the end, this season to me is the first half of the last act. Incomplete until we go into next season. If anything, this finale left a lot of plot left for its final season, but I don't know if it gave enough plot to this season. I guess only time will tell. One thing we do know for sure: it's going to be another long 8 months.

[PFSIKH 101,506]

I do not know if the Jacob/Esau holds to scrutiny. At least not in it's literal meaning.

Jacob - "I take it you're here because of the ship"

????? - "I am. How did they find the island?"

Jacob - "You'll have to ask them when they get here"

????? - "I dont have to ask, you brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong aren't you..."

Jacob - "You are wrong."

????? - "Am I? They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt, it always ends the same."

Jacob - "But it only ends once, anything that hapens before that, is just progress."

????? - "Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?"

Jacob - "Yes."

????? - "One of these days sooner or later, I'm going to find a loophole my friend"

Jacob - "Well when you do I'll be right here."

????? - "Always nice talking to you, Jacob."

Jacob - "Nice talking to you to."

This suggests it is some type of contest and/or sociological experiment. Judging by their conversation, they seem to be a higher being. Or maybe even GOB's theory of aliens. Jacob supports the lesser humans and believes they prgress. The other guy not so much.

Jacob - "But it only ends once, anything that happens before that, is just progress."

What does this suggest?

[The Gun Of Bavaria 228,296]

WTF??

Good vs Evil..devil vs jesus?

WTF????

jacob = jesus,,and the lostees now disciples to spread the word????

Do you think it is that simple?

Or two brothers, enemies in a contest?

Did he bring Locke back to life?

its more than brought back to life,,it wasnt locke in lockes body,,it wa sIMHO the guy on beach with jacob ion opening scene..he used lockes likeness cause he knew a 'locke' looking person could get trust and llegiance to accomplish his goals..i think the 'rules' bewtween these two say they cant harm each other, but have to convince someone else to do thier bidding,,

My bad I should have been clearer.

I am talking when Jacob visited Locke after his dad pushed him out the window. Locke looked dead on the ground, Jacob touched him and Locke drew in a breath.

Kate, Locke, Sayid and Hurley he clearly had an effect on shaping their future. Why?

Jin/Sun and Jack, not so much.

So the hanging plots are:

Whose eye opens at the end of the show?

Does Juliette live?

(Score one for us if she appears nekid next season like Desmond)

What do they mean by "new destiny"?

What if, as the article said, Jacob is actually the bad guy and ????? is the good guy? Remember the people who were carrying Locke inside the shipping container commenting to the Captain, "We're the good guys". What about Locke's quote of "Things are going to change for the better" when inferring to Jacob's death?

I can see LOST easily flipping the two.

[Borgoguy 157,276]

What if, as the article said, Jacob is actually the bad guy and ????? is the good guy? Remember the people who were carrying Locke inside the shipping container commenting to the Captain, "We're the good guys". What about Locke's quote of "Things are going to change for the better" when inferring to Jacob's death?

I can see LOST easily flipping the two.

This is a great post, Guns. It's essence is what I think about often concerning the connection of "God" and/or religion to war and general human suffering. What better guise could one imagine for an evil entity than to take the form of a, seemingly, benevolent one? As for Lost, I hope the writers don't go down this simple morality play route.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

Nice read..

"Lost's" Finale Was The Bomb, Yo

Now that is how you cap off a killer season of "Lost!" Last night's season five finale was easily the most satisfying ending the show has ever had, while completely leaving fans with their jaws on the floor, begging for more! The two-hour spectacle had it all -- love, death, science, scares, mythology, explanations, murder, resurrections, good versus evil and even the return of Vincent!

Yes, it was a balls-out brilliant finale that didn't trip up once, so let's dig in deep and begin the dissection -- even though we have nearly a year to finish the job.

I'm not even sure where to start, so I am -- once again -- going to follow the advice of a wise woman and start at the very beginning, because it's a very good place to start. Leading off the episode, we were introduced to an extra from the movie "Wanted" as we watched this mystery man work on a loom. At first I thought this was a coincidence -- they wouldn't steal that film's Loom of Life concept -- but once this man was introduced as the mysterious Jacob, it didn't seem terribly unrealistic that he would be dealing with destiny via dye-free fabrics.

Jacob, outfitted in pure white, was then met by a darkly dressed dude, who said, "You know how badly I want to kill you, right?" before implying that Jacob beckoned a nearby ship (The Black Rock?) to the island. It's at this point I took the leap of faith that these two men represented God and the devil -- or some equivalent -- and the island was simply a tool to play out the age-old battle between light and dark.

This theory quickly became a fact as Jacob was shown visiting our Losties -- and very intentionally touching each -- throughout their lives. He saved a young Kate from the cops, talked Sawyer down after his parents' death, congratulated Jin and Sun at their wedding, put Sayid's ladylove in the path of a careening car, satiated Jack's sweet tooth, gave Hurley the guitar that he dragged back to the island and brought Locke back from the dead after bad daddy tossed him out that window.

Speaking of Locke -- love saying this -- I was right about his

dead body popping up at a pivotal moment, revealing that Locke never resurrected upon returning to the island! "The Devil" had adopted his likeness and had spent the last few weeks manipulating Ben to kill Jacob because Satan can't murder God outright.

And that's exactly what Devi-Locke got Ben to do at the end of the episode, but whether or not this will have ramifications next season remains to be seen because Jack successfully detonated the hydrogen bomb. Or, more accurately, Juliette set the blast. Let's back up.

Sawyer and Juliette are on the sub where Kate is trying to convince them to return to the island. Sawyer stands firm but Juliette agrees they have to go back -- mostly because she can tell he is still in love with Kate. A fact that was crushingly confirmed when Rose and Bernard are talking about soulmates and Sawyer glances as Kate, not Juliette.

This set off a chain of events that saw Jack -- dressed like a ghostbuster -- throw the hydrogen bomb into the hatch, where it didn't explode. The increasingly strong magnetic force began to suck every metallic object toward it, including a heavy duty chain that wrapped itself around Juliette's waist. It was at this point in the episode when I stopped breathing because what came next was easily the most heartwrenching two minutes in the history of "Lost."

Sawyer rushed to save Juliette and grabbed her hand at the last minute, saving her from plummeting into the deep darkness. But the chain is still tied tightly, pulling Juliette harder and harder into the seemingly bottomless shaft. She starts to cry -- partly out of impending death, mostly out of pain -- while Sawyer screams, "Don't leave me! Don't let go!" But slip she does and fans have to watch in horror as Juliette plummets to her death and Sawyer becomes a quivering mess of emotions.

Now, even if you don't like Juliette, you have to admit that this was an amazing scene and should earn Elizabeth Mitchell the Emmy she's been rudely snubbed of the last two seasons. Ditto for Josh Holloway -- didn't know he had it in him.

But the fall didn't kill Juliette, it just injured her really badly. We discovered her bloodied body at the bottom of the pit, conveniently right next to the undetonated hydrogen bomb. Since she was already dying and had decided that not knowing Sawyer was better than loving and losing him, Juliette took a rock to the device and got it to explode. This brought us to the end of the episode and a polar opposite title card -- black on white.

Now for the big question -- how does this explosion alter the show? If you believe Jack was right, the final season will see Oceanic Flight 815 land in LAX as planned and focus on how each of the characters leads their lives, independent of the island's lessons. Would soulmates still find one another?

The other possibility is that Jack was wrong and setting off the hydrogen bomb is what actually caused "The Incident," and season six will start with the crash of Flight 815 and Jack's eye opening, a la season one. Now, if this is the plan, two additional possibilities spring forth -- will anyone remember what happened?

Either the events of the past five seasons will be washed away (me no likey) and we'd watch everyone re-meet one another. Or, (hopefully) everyone will retain their memories, making the point of season six watching everyone try to figure out why they're still on the island. Whichever plan comes to fruition, one thing is for certain, dead castaways like Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Ana Lucia, Claire and Libby can once again be part of the series!

[DHJF 39,951]

Or, (hopefully) everyone will retain their memories, making the point of season six watching everyone try to figure out why they're still on the island.

I think we're much more likely to see a scenario similar to the above, but it will be akin to deja-vu more than everyone retaining their memories.

I believe the Island is hell, and they're all living in it. Their punishment is to spend eternity going through these same sequence of events over and over again, feeling as though "this has happened before" but not quite able to put their finger on it, and not able to stop it.

[piney 6,704]

It is probably the best and most powerful and thought provoking season ender yet by LOST.

I know have to go to ABC.com and re-watch the series only because everyone we thought was somehow communicating from the dead with the survivors and Others was actually this anti-Jacob...which changes everything..then you have to think, if Jacob was not in the cabin, then it was the anti-Jacob, and then you have to wonder...what else did this anti-Jacob manipulate from the beginning....almost as if I will watch the series knowing that everything that happens is a plot to kill Jacob by the anti-Jacob...and if the seeds of this plan are noticeable throughout the series.

What else did the dead people get the living people to do? How would that help anti-Jacob in his plot against Jacob?

[piney 6,704]

Not only that..but someone mentioned how the show can twist things for you, so some are questioning who is the good guy here, Jacob and anti-Jacob...well..if we go on the theory that jacob is the good guy well then Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke et al are the bad guys....

it means that while we all thought that the survivors were the heroes of the show and the others were the villians, it could be the other way around..

The others have been on the island to protect it from outsiders since, it seems, before the Dahrma group came in, and they are there to protect it from the survivors, and it seems, they failed since Jacob is dead.

Maybe the loophole is that he can only die by the hand of one of his disciples or in this case Ben.

..woah...I think I just got brain freeze

[PFSIKH 101,506]

What if, as the article said, Jacob is actually the bad guy and ????? is the good guy? Remember the people who were carrying Locke inside the shipping container commenting to the Captain, "We're the good guys". What about Locke's quote of "Things are going to change for the better" when inferring to Jacob's death?

I can see LOST easily flipping the two.

I do not know why...but this quote came up when I read your post.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

I was reading a Lost board and someone brought up the principle, Occahim's Razor when discussing theories.

Bright side, we have a good 7-8 months to watch old episodes.

[The Gun Of Bavaria 228,296]

Well it looks like we have another 9-10 months to figure it out. Time for this thread to go back into the mix until February, 2010.

[Gagoots 9,341]

I believe the Island is hell, and they're all living in it. Their punishment is to spend eternity going through these same sequence of events over and over again, feeling as though "this has happened before" but not quite able to put their finger on it, and not able to stop it.

Why, how sophomoric of you!

[SouthernJet 209,016]

Why, how sophomoric of you!

He may be right,,at least thats what Jacobs opening scene conversation implied about The Black Rocks arrival

[Gagoots 9,341]

He may be right,,at least thats what Jacobs opening scene conversation implied about The Black Rocks arrival

No. It didn't.

But how about this...it's all a dream!!

Come on give Abrahams a little more credit than this crap!!!

[DHJF 39,951]

Why, how sophomoric of you!

Smooches.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

No. It didn't.

But how about this...it's all a dream!!

Come on give Abrahams a little more credit than this crap!!!

yes it did...listen to the whole dialouge,,could easily be intepreted that way..

[The Gun Of Bavaria 228,296]

[The Gun Of Bavaria 228,296]

[SouthernJet 209,016]

someone likee Juliet??

google elizabeth mitchell in film GIA

[Gagoots 9,341]

yes it did...listen to the whole dialouge,,could easily be intepreted that way..

Sure it could. If you're a jackoff, it's easy to think many stupid things.

[The Gun Of Bavaria 228,296]

someone likee Juliet??

google elizabeth mitchell in film GIA

I'm at work....can't do it here...

and I've already seen the pictures

[SouthernJet 209,016]

Sure it could. If you're a jackoff, it's easy to think many stupid things.

OK.

You bring quite a bit to the table.

Post more, its fun to laugh.

[Gagoots 9,341]

OK.

You bring quite a bit to the table.

Post more, its fun to laugh.

Here's some substance amid all my potty trash talk: Look at the mythology of Horus and Set.

[SouthernJet 209,016]

Here's some substance amid all my potty trash talk: Look at the mythology of Horus and Set.

ya, any one can take that from it..probable red herring,,maybe they want lemmings...

this is fun..plus, the writers make it up as th ygo along and see what people are 'thinking' the answer is.

http://www.docarzt.com/lost-discussion/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1867

Edited May 20, 2009 by SouthernJet

[gg 318,795]

just watched the finale.

OY!

just the idea of waiting 8 months to see more pisses me off.

ugh

[CTM 140,692]

No. It didn't.

But how about this...it's all a dream!!

Come on give Abrahams a little more credit than this crap!!!

Bah! Jack reasoning for wanting to detonate jughead and Juliets reason for changing her mind were total cheese. Read somewhere that the most powerful force on the island must be Austenism, which is lame.. It ruined the episode for me..

[SouthernJet 209,016]

I read where JJ will have the finale of LOST be a tie-in to his next Star Trek movie..

The crew of Enterprise will emerge on island and Kirk will bang Juliet and Kate and Spock will do a MindMeld with Hurley to find out his Smores recipe.

Then KirK will turn to Jack and Sawyer and say 'Its Good to be the King..Beam Me Up Scotty'..

[PFSIKH 101,506]

Yeah...6 more months.

[BuckinKaeding 6,729]

Leave it to a fuggin' Chargers fan to bump this thread.

Woo hoo! 22 more days fellas!