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The Gun Of Bavaria

By The Gun Of Bavaria
in The Jets Lounge

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The Gun Of Bavaria

The Gun Of Bavaria

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sigh... there was a difference. in this episode.. which i know VERY well..

the parallel world had the "other" crew as evil..

in the STNG episode i was referring to, the new riker is not evil..

right now we have not gotten the impression that the passengers that are now on the plane.. are not evil.. they just continued on as if they didnt crash.

nice try, officer ;)

and oh by the way.. any thoughts on my queries?

Oooooh, a fellow Trekkie Geek. You and I are going to have a Star Trek trivia battle on our hands Na.

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BaumerJet

BaumerJet

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Julia tells Sawyer from the grave through Miles that "IT WORKED."

The "It" she referred to was the Nuclear Explosion in 1977 that destroyed the electromagnetic pulse that the Island had/has & was responsible in knocking down Oceanic flight 815 in 2004.

No pulse, no crash - Flight lands safely - WITH ALL PASSENGERS ALIVE & WELL - in Los Angeles.

Now, because the pulse effects time on the island as well, a PARADOX was created because the original time line that existed prior to the explosion (This is a hard explanation - Quantum theory states that time is a constant and that an individual who travels throughout time [past/present/future] does so because it was always supposed to happen).

It becomes more responsive if you view the fact that an individual's time line could remain a constant straight line that exists in the present, travels to the past & returns to the present because their individual time line was supposed to cross all time & space.

It also explains Richard's immortality.

He may not be immortal - It may just exist in flux with the island & because of it, he never ages.

So, with the Island now COMPLETELY out of flux - a paradox created by the destruction of Oceanic flight 815 is preparing for a final battle, what that means is going to be revealed in the last 17 episodes of this insane & incredible series.

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CTM

CTM

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Good stuff. Mentioned the grandfathers paradox earlier, and I think a related idea is at play here (if the flight never crashed, how could the survivors have ever got to the island in the first place to blow up the hatch and prevent the plane crash) I'm not sure they'll ever go back to the other dimension, however my understanding of string theory and quantum mechanics is extremely limited..

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The Gun Of Bavaria

The Gun Of Bavaria

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Julia tells Sawyer from the grave through Miles that "IT WORKED."

The "It" she referred to was the Nuclear Explosion in 1977 that destroyed the electromagnetic pulse that the Island had/has & was responsible in knocking down Oceanic flight 815 in 2004.

No pulse, no crash - Flight lands safely - WITH ALL PASSENGERS ALIVE & WELL - in Los Angeles.

Now, because the pulse effects time on the island as well, a PARADOX was created because the original time line that existed prior to the explosion (This is a hard explanation - Quantum theory states that time is a constant and that an individual who travels throughout time [past/present/future] does so because it was always supposed to happen).

It becomes more responsive if you view the fact that an individual's time line could remain a constant straight line that exists in the present, travels to the past & returns to the present because their individual time line was supposed to cross all time & space.

It also explains Richard's immortality.

He may not be immortal - It may just exist in flux with the island & because of it, he never ages.

So, with the Island now COMPLETELY out of flux - a paradox created by the destruction of Oceanic flight 815 is preparing for a final battle, what that means is going to be revealed in the last 17 episodes of this insane & incredible series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

Michael Faraday, FRS (22 September 1791

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CTM

CTM

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This season to this point has blown...way too much "setup".

Just keep it simple. 2 hour episode, explain it all, have the good vs. evil battle....call it a day.

Uneven.. as usualy the kate and Jack stuff stink.. I thought last weeks episode was really good..

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Garb

Garb

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I thought last night was okay. I know that every episode has some kind of weird, out of nowhere, reveal - but its kind it odd that Jack's son shows up now. Does not gel with his character.

Anyway, I get that all the characters are "Lost" and I get the whole six degrees of separation vibe as well as the good versus evil feel - I can't wait 'till the story starts making enough sense to truly piece together.

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The Gun Of Bavaria

The Gun Of Bavaria

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What was wrong with last night's episode. I thought the lighthouse was pretty cool, and weird. Can't have dramatic and meaningful; reveals every week, especially with this many weeks left. Looks like next week will be pretty wild, hopefully.

Jack was his usual, woe is me, drama queen self in last night's episode.

I say for the finale, Mr. Eko comes back and beats the piss out of everyone with a baseball bat.

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Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof

Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof

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Jack was his usual, woe is me, drama queen self in last night's episode.

I say for the finale, Mr. Eko comes back and beats the piss out of everyone with a baseball bat.

Eh, to each his own I guess. The only episode I ever really disliked was the Paolo and Nicki episode (Expose) and the only character I've ever really disliked was Shannnon, b/c she was such a whiny twaat. I just enjoy the entertaining ride the show's taken me own. I'm saving my criticism for a wet-noodle ending, should it occur.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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What was with the preview for next week, they better start finalizing this ****.

******************Possible SPoiler Alerts*****************

I think they are.

As Baumer pointed out about Julia, "it worked."

I do not think it is so much an alternate universe, but the people that were 'broke' in reality being fixed by the island and leading normal lives.

Linus is a history teacher.

Locke seems to be moving past his 'crippled man complex'. (Which I think is going to be the Man in Black's ultimate downfall.)

Jack seems to be moving on from repeating the same mistakes of his father. (Would anyone be surprised to see Julia as the ex-wife?)

Hugo happy with his success and prospering.

The only thing I think is up in the air is the origin of the island and Jacob/Man in Black and how Desmond factors into things.

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gg

gg

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i am sure i am just looking for crap where there isnt any.. but i wonder why they choose the name "david" for Jack's son? If we go the whole religious route.. David was the king of the jews.. also the whole David and Goliath thing.

Ok.. maybe i am just reading into stuff that isnt there. lol

i hate this show.. cant wait for next tuesday! :D

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Garb

Garb

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Well.....so much for being slow.

Unchecked, evil prevails.

....is Kate the savior? She appears to be the only one of the main characters who has "lost" her evil intentions....if she ever really had any. And, where the heck is Desmond? You just know he is the crucial piece that glues it all together somehow.

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Vicious89x

Vicious89x

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....is Kate the savior? She appears to be the only one of the main characters who has "lost" her evil intentions....if she ever really had any. And, where the heck is Desmond? You just know he is the crucial piece that glues it all together somehow.

"Someone's coming to the island"

"I'm sure they'll figure it out"

That was last week and I'm certain it was Desmond they were referring to. And I don't think Kate is the savior, she's really not even a candidate as per the list in the cavev.

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The Gun Of Bavaria

The Gun Of Bavaria

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"Someone's coming to the island"

"I'm sure they'll figure it out"

That was last week and I'm certain it was Desmond they were referring to. And I don't think Kate is the savior, she's really not even a candidate as per the list in the cavev.

I don't suppose we get to see Mr. Ecko again?

Desmond as the Savior? perhaps. Still trying to figure the significance of no Jack or Sawyer in this past episode....

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Garb

Garb

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I don't suppose we get to see Mr. Ecko again?

Desmond as the Savior? perhaps. Still trying to figure the significance of no Jack or Sawyer in this past episode....

Jacob sent Hurley and Jack away the last episode, the lighthouse, thus out of harms way. Hurley is the only one that can see Jacob - and listens to Jacob, so he's important. Jack has value as a credible leader? Sawyer left of his own accord. Kate is the only "main" character who seems "good" but in the company of evil.

It seems clearer to me that Locke (smokemonster) is Lucifer - the evil force who gets people to perform evil tasks for him in exchange for a wish or promise.

I read somewhere that viewers should pay very close attention to the music played in each episode. That the clues are there.

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Vicious89x

Vicious89x

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I don't suppose we get to see Mr. Ecko again?

Desmond as the Savior? perhaps. Still trying to figure the significance of no Jack or Sawyer in this past episode....

I don't think it has much significance outside of the fact that they are trying to balance a couple of storylines while the characters are separated.

I don't think Desmond will be the savior. I'm really locked in that it's Jack. It's going to be on Jack to gather all the good people or candidates on the island and then he's going to have to do something that is very hard. Perhaps even commit the ultimate sacrifice.

I felt last weeks episode had a deep significance with Jack's character. There was a couple of times throughout the episode you saw Jack looking at his own reflection. Jack has always run from his problems by trying to save everyone else. Last week to me was an episode that finally made Jack look deep into himself, and finally believe "He has what it takes."

As for Desmond, I think he's going to have something to do with the merging or destruction of the timelines. He is so special and unique with his time travel abilities. I can't see the writers leaving it open as two open universes.

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Garb

Garb

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I don't think it has much significance outside of the fact that they are trying to balance a couple of storylines while the characters are separated.

I don't think Desmond will be the savior. I'm really locked in that it's Jack. It's going to be on Jack to gather all the good people or candidates on the island and then he's going to have to do something that is very hard. Perhaps even commit the ultimate sacrifice.

I felt last weeks episode had a deep significance with Jack's character. There was a couple of times throughout the episode you saw Jack looking at his own reflection. Jack has always run from his problems by trying to save everyone else. Last week to me was an episode that finally made Jack look deep into himself, and finally believe "He has what it takes."

As for Desmond, I think he's going to have something to do with the merging or destruction of the timelines. He is so special and unique with his time travel abilities. I can't see the writers leaving it open as two open universes.

Nice observation!

I love this show.

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piney

piney

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A few thoughts:

1) In this strange crazy alternate time-line where the plane never crashes on the island there are a lot of crazy differences in details about these characters. Stuff that we were not led to believe existed in the time-line where they plane crashed. I wonder if the bomb also nullified any interaction Jacob may have had with the main characters after 1977, which may explain some of the differences. What is the theory about a butterfly creating hurricanes, change just one small thing, one chance meeting between Jack and Jacob and suddenly he has an ex0wife and a son.

2) So far no new dead people coming back from the grave, which helps to cement my theory (probably not mine alone, but I thought of it after last seasons reveal that Locke was Anti-Jacob) that every person who ever came back was Anti-Jacob manipulating everyone. Using the image of Jacks father, Ecko's brother, Linus' daughter, Walt in the woods, all to orchestrate Jacob's death. Not exactly a new idea, but a really cool one to watch the series back and look for, watching every mysterious appearance as being Anti-Jacob.

3) I see a lot of Cain/Abel more than God/Devil in the Jacob/anti-Jacob relationship. There are so many interpretations of the "first" murder....Byron's play/poem "Cain" was an extremely interesting take. The idea of Cain and Abel being trapped on this island, a sort of perverted Eden, and having rules to follow, regarding killing and whatnot really make me think that they can not be God/Devil types, but entities below that, ones with rules to obey, almost as if they themselves are chess pieces in a game played by greater beings.

4) The Island obviously fills voids left by people who die or leave the island. Claire is the new french woman, almost as if the island needs a french woman type. I wonder if that is how the whole Jacob/Anti-Jacob thing works? I wonder if that is where the candidates come in..replacement parts for an ongoing struggle...which makes me think, if this series is to end, something goes wrong this time other than just Jacob dying...and knowing the characters, the one I would see as not playing along by the rulebook and ending this on his terms would be Sawyer...who could be the savior of the island...which would be interesting...but who knows.

that is all for my first post here in almost a year....good to be back!

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Vicious89x

Vicious89x

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A few thoughts:

1) In this strange crazy alternate time-line where the plane never crashes on the island there are a lot of crazy differences in details about these characters. Stuff that we were not led to believe existed in the time-line where they plane crashed. I wonder if the bomb also nullified any interaction Jacob may have had with the main characters after 1977, which may explain some of the differences. What is the theory about a butterfly creating hurricanes, change just one small thing, one chance meeting between Jack and Jacob and suddenly he has an ex0wife and a son.

2) So far no new dead people coming back from the grave, which helps to cement my theory (probably not mine alone, but I thought of it after last seasons reveal that Locke was Anti-Jacob) that every person who ever came back was Anti-Jacob manipulating everyone. Using the image of Jacks father, Ecko's brother, Linus' daughter, Walt in the woods, all to orchestrate Jacob's death. Not exactly a new idea, but a really cool one to watch the series back and look for, watching every mysterious appearance as being Anti-Jacob.

3) I see a lot of Cain/Abel more than God/Devil in the Jacob/anti-Jacob relationship. There are so many interpretations of the "first" murder....Byron's play/poem "Cain" was an extremely interesting take. The idea of Cain and Abel being trapped on this island, a sort of perverted Eden, and having rules to follow, regarding killing and whatnot really make me think that they can not be God/Devil types, but entities below that, ones with rules to obey, almost as if they themselves are chess pieces in a game played by greater beings.

4) The Island obviously fills voids left by people who die or leave the island. Claire is the new french woman, almost as if the island needs a french woman type. I wonder if that is how the whole Jacob/Anti-Jacob thing works? I wonder if that is where the candidates come in..replacement parts for an ongoing struggle...which makes me think, if this series is to end, something goes wrong this time other than just Jacob dying...and knowing the characters, the one I would see as not playing along by the rulebook and ending this on his terms would be Sawyer...who could be the savior of the island...which would be interesting...but who knows.

that is all for my first post here in almost a year....good to be back!

This is a great point. I was telling my wife that I can't see them NOT being brothers. They have to be. Something happens along the way to split their ideology's thus one becoming the white and one becoming the black.

As far as the candidates, I think it's pretty clear that Jacob was practically begging for death at the hands of Ben. He was already building his army prior to dying, we saw this with him go to Ilana and asking her to come to the island. The ongoing struggle is a game of sorts. Each have sacrificed pawns in order to keep their pieces and goals intact.

I still see the island as being a stopgap of sorts. If the island is gone then the end of time is imminent. The island allows Jacob or the Guardian to essentially hit reset, and try it all over again.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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This is a great point. I was telling my wife that I can't see them NOT being brothers. They have to be. Something happens along the way to split their ideology's thus one becoming the white and one becoming the black.

As far as the candidates, I think it's pretty clear that Jacob was practically begging for death at the hands of Ben. He was already building his army prior to dying, we saw this with him go to Ilana and asking her to come to the island. The ongoing struggle is a game of sorts. Each have sacrificed pawns in order to keep their pieces and goals intact.

I still see the island as being a stopgap of sorts. If the island is gone then the end of time is imminent. The island allows Jacob or the Guardian to essentially hit reset, and try it all over again.

I would not agree with your words, but the point that his death is a means to an end. No pun intended. No doubt.

I do not think Kate is more a pawn in the war.

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