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LOST (Merged 13X)

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SOOOOOOOOOOOO?????? anybody else wonderign when the answers are going to come?

No, we already know them. We are just keeping them from you.

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No, we already know them. We are just keeping them from you.

hey! dont be a meannnnnnnnnnnnnnie!!! :baby:

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hey! dont be a meannnnnnnnnnnnnnie!!! :baby:

I think the answer is already there.

It is a War. I think (or leaning towards) it being as simple as good versus evil.

An interesting thing said was when Locke/Dark Man said Linus could be the one to watch the island. Does this mean the island needs a person/soul to overwatch it?

Good believe the island is a special place. Evil think it is an island.

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I think the answer is already there.

It is a War. I think (or leaning towards) it being as simple as good versus evil.

An interesting thing said was when Locke/Dark Man said Linus could be the one to watch the island. Does this mean the island needs a person/soul to overwatch it?

Good believe the island is a special place. Evil think it is an island.

I don't know if it was that so much as it was an attempt for the MIB to capitalize on Linus' obsession with power. Which the whole episode was about.

The first few minutes were very telling, when he's in class discussing Napoleon on Elba, and how he had to deal with his loss of power on the island.

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I am finally after months of procrastinating caught up with the show via DVR -- The only thing I have predicted correctly was that Widmore would be the one Jack was to wait for. I can now read up with everyones tidbits as to what is going on because you guys read intio this far more than I do. Claire said she wouldf kill Kate if she knew it was her who was taking care of her child. Any bets Sawyer comes out of nowhere to save her in the last second. other than that your guess is as good as mine.

This is television at its finest -- I am now attempting to watch Flashfoward from the beginning.

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I don't know if it was that so much as it was an attempt for the MIB to capitalize on Linus' obsession with power. Which the whole episode was about.

The first few minutes were very telling, when he's in class discussing Napoleon on Elba, and how he had to deal with his loss of power on the island.

Agree.

Quite frankly the MIB is OBVIOUSLY going to be compared to the Devil and why not? He seems to know EXACTLY what to say to each person to get them to follow him. He's not threatening, just saying, come along I'll make it easy.

-Sawyer wants off the island, period. He tells him I'll get you off the island

-Claire wants her baby back. He promises to get her baby back.

-Sayid is a soul missing a major piece, Nadia. He promises he can bring him back to Nadia

-Ben craves power and control. He offered Ben the absolute power of being THE man on the island. Ben chose a path of redemption instead.

It is a war, between two opposing sides. To me it's clear the MIB exists for destruction and is the Omega in this. He signifies the end. Jacob on the other hand, I'm still not clear on. Yes, he's on the other side. But why is he protecting the island and trying to seat a replacement? Those are answers we'll get I'm sure.

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Interesting take from someone. Like everyones elses take, who the hell knows:

THEORY: How will LOST end? The same way it began.

February 13th, 2010JosephLeave a commentGo to comments

I

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on the forever repeating scenario, someone said this:

I think the last scene of the whole series will be Sawyer and Jack reenacting this scene with Sawyer as the MiB and Jack as Jacob.

7yCmCOQbYAI

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another thought

Steve West, CinemaBlend

"I believe the island itself is a manifestation of the ideals of humanity. It's where selected people are guided to confront the truths about themselves and the world of man as a whole. Jacob is not God. The Man in Black is not the Devil. They are far older than any human notion of divinity, and they are playing a game with each other that ultimately brings balance to the world. I'm not talking good versus evil either. Remember way back in season one when Locke explained Backgammon to Walt? Locke makes it a point to mention that Archaeologists found Backgammon sets long before Jesus Christ was around. Then he says, "Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is dark." Right there in the pilot for the series we were given the general overview of what is going on. One is light. One is dark. The Man in Black (MiB) has grown tired of the millennia-old game he and Jacob have been playing, so he has set in motion a way to finally kill Jacob. In order to battle back, Jacob has had to meddle in human affairs far more than he is allowed.

While the island and what it does has been going on for a long time, there is a reason why we're being told this particular part of its history. This is the MiB's attempt at an endgame. So Jacob went to all of the people we saw in the finale of season five to touch them, Sistine Chapel

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Wasn't there once a theory that the story revolved a possible Cain and Abbel subplot?

Is it just mere coincidence that Ben was teaching about the island of Elba, a jumbled Abel?

It just gets ridiculous at some point

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on the forever repeating scenario, someone said this:

I think the last scene of the whole series will be Sawyer and Jack reenacting this scene with Sawyer as the MiB and Jack as Jacob.

7yCmCOQbYAI

The best scenario I have ever heard. :love0030:

Interesting take from someone. Like everyones elses take, who the hell knows:

THEORY: How will LOST end? The same way it began.

February 13th, 2010JosephLeave a commentGo to comments

I

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Thoughts on last night?

Good episode, but I think I nearly made a mess of myself when I saw next week is a Richard episode.

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Thoughts on last night?

Good episode, but I think I nearly made a mess of myself when I saw next week is a Richard episode.

I'm already counting down the days to that. That episode (Should) be extremely telling.

AS for the rest, I'm really starting to support the Cain & Abel theories that some have posted here. When I started reading up on them (being the lapse Catholic that I am) it really started to make a lot of sense.

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I've thought this before but this season has really enforced this as well, does anyone else get the feeling that the overall story line, the perpetual battle, is just like the plot to The Matrix? It's basically the same theme, Man vs, The Machines, fighting a battle which has always ended the same exact way everytime it played out, until Neo came along.

Now we have an obvious battle that has been going for 1000s of years, taking the theory that Sawyer & Jack are the MiB/Jacob replacements, does it simply keep repeating itself or is Jack "The One", who is able to disrupt things enough to finally force a change after all these years.

I see a lot of Matrix similarities.

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I've thought this before but this season has really enforced this as well, does anyone else get the feeling that the overall story line, the perpetual battle, is just like the plot to The Matrix? It's basically the same theme, Man vs, The Machines, fighting a battle which has always ended the same exact way everytime it played out, until Neo came along.

Now we have an obvious battle that has been going for 1000s of years, taking the theory that Sawyer & Jack are the MiB/Jacob replacements, does it simply keep repeating itself or is Jack "The One", who is able to disrupt things enough to finally force a change after all these years.

I see a lot of Matrix similarities.

I think the block universe theory is VERY telling for lost. I'll post some excerpts. Overall I think the island is essentially a stopgap, something that is preventing the world from ending in a way, and thus allowing a cycle to repeat. Jacob is trying to get "progress" because it always ends the same. This is something that has been building over time and eventually so many iterations will eventually create a new bubble, or universe, seen in the flash sideways. Anyways, here's the information.

The Wheeler-DeWitt equation suggests a model in which all of time is laid-out (just as the space dimension is laid-out), and all times are equally real: there is no special "now", no distinction between past and future.

It is also called a block universe because all of spacetime can be viewed as being laid-out as an unchanging four-dimensional block:

So all of time is laid-out as an unchanging block, and there is no moving "now" moment through time. To say "Time moves at the rate of one second per second" is meaningless. Rather, the rate of time flow would have to be measured with respect to some secondary, external time reference. But throughout this page we have stressed that there is no clock outside the universe, so there cannot be any such external time reference, and therefore no moving "now".

Some people have suggested that the block universe model is incompatible with any notion of free will. This, they would say, is because the future appears to be set-in-stone in the block universe model, so we are never at liberty to change it by our choices. I would disagree with this reasoning as I believe it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the block universe implies.

The misunderstanding arises because the notion of free will is so poorly defined. I am going to define "free will" in what I believe is the best and most accurate description:

Free will is defined as the ability to make decisions.

This definition of free will is completely compatible with the block universe model. The key thing is that only one course of action results when we make a decision. There is only one outcome. There is only ever one stream of events. For example, the sequence of events when we come to a fork in the road might be:

EVENT 1) You walk along the road and come to a fork in the road.

EVENT 2) You decide to turn to the left.

EVENT 3) You continue your journey along the left road.

This is just a sequence of three events, and that's all the block universe is: a sequence of successive events. So these three events can easily be incorporated into the block universe model.

In the block universe model, events are unchanging and "frozen-in-time". But that does not mean that those events do not represent the expression of free will. For example, when we look back into the past we consider those past events to be "frozen", and nothing could change those events. However, we might also remember some of those past events as representing moments when we made decisions, i.e., expressed our free will

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On the "alternate" universe

Andre Linde realised that a succession of further quantum fluctuations within the expanding universe would result in areas of secondary inflation. This process can continue indefinitely in a process known as eternal inflation. In an eternally inflating universe, "bubble" universes can bubble-up out of an eternally inflating space like bubbles in a bottle of champagne (see Andrei Linde's paper Inflation, Quantum Cosmology and the Anthropic Principle)."

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On the "alternate" universe

The alternate universe seems to be a result of the grandfathers paradox.. If the survivors of Oceanic blew up the hatch in the 70's that would prevent their plane from ever crashing, how'd they get on the island to blow up the hatch? So during the 70's an alternate universe was created one in which they never crashed and mever blew up the hatch

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The alternate universe seems to be a result of the grandfathers paradox.. If the survivors of Oceanic blew up the hatch in the 70's that would prevent their plane from ever crashing, how'd they get on the island to blow up the hatch? So during the 70's an alternate universe was created one in which they never crashed and mever blew up the hatch

That's true. But at the same time the reason I kind of by Linde's theory as a serious possibility for what's happening on the island is that famous conversation at the end of season 5

Esau: I don

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maybe there are several alternates due to not resetting or hatch blown over milenium..

so idea is to lessen number of these alternates by order on island..

soooooooo.. what is widmores reason for getting back?? does he need another alternate??

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maybe there are several alternates due to not resetting or hatch blown over milenium..

so idea is to lessen number of these alternates by order on island..

soooooooo.. what is widmores reason for getting back?? does he need another alternate??

I think you are still right on for the final scene.

After Sawyer made several points that he is getting off the island in this last episode. He is not going anywhere.

Jacob continues to tinker and perhaps "reset things" in order to help protect the island from completely ending things. Like I said the island is a stop gap, something that is holding back "the end" so he can continue to push buttons and perhaps get the "progress". Thus hitting the reset button too many times will eventually create this "bubble universe". This bubble universe could finally possibly offer the losties an out when the end finally comes and this is what Jacob has been trying to push all along. To unbalance the equation while the MIB only sees the end and there is no way around it.

I just cannot wrap my hands around this. I agree Jacob goes back to tweak things. I do not think it is to save the world from the island though.

I am fascinated with that conversation between Jacob and MIB. Like the show it leaves as many questions as answer. While you can easily explain your theory above from it, it could also boil down to something as easy as a bet. Loophole?

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I think you are still right on for the final scene.

After Sawyer made several points that he is getting off the island in this last episode. He is not going anywhere.

I just cannot wrap my hands around this. I agree Jacob goes back to tweak things. I do not think it is to save the world from the island though.

I am fascinated with that conversation between Jacob and MIB. Like the show it leaves as many questions as answer. While you can easily explain your theory above from it, it could also boil down to something as easy as a bet. Loophole?

I didn't mean to "save the world from the island". Think of it like this. There was something bad that happened and the island was the cork stuck on top of it to prevent it from continually spilling. That's why he feels the island needs a protector. MIB seems to perhaps feel that it's no biggie, let's pop the cork off this thing.

Anyways, half the fun is theorizing and I'm probably wrong 80% of the time. Could be nothing more than a bet.

Although- hearing about MIB's mother this week was interesting... seems to be a lot of turmoil there which makes me feel like Jacob and MIB are brothers.

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IF they end up being Cain and Abel..

Is the Island the famed 'Lost' Garden of Eden?

I am staring to think so..................

island is the Garden of Eden. Paradise. Straight out of the bible. The place where man is tempted by good and evil, where freewill and destiny are put to the test.

The Monster

When Danielle Rousseau is asked about the monster she says that it's not a monster, it's a security device to keep things out (Ep: 1x23, Exodus Part 1).

The black smoke is that security device. Pick up the bible, read Genesis 3. After Adam and Eve eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God kicks them out of the garden. To prevent them from eating of the tree of life, God places a cherubim as a guardian to the tree. It's said to hold a flashing sword that guards every which way into the garden.

Think back to the episode with Eko when he encounters the black smoke (Ep: 2x10, The 23rd Psalm). It comes out to him, long and cylinder like (sword like?). It is dark and flashes. If you pause carefully as the camera moves through the smoke, you'll see still images that are of Eko's past life, as though he were standing at the judgement seat (of God). After seeing the black smoke what does he do? He builds a temple to the Lord (sort of like what the children of Israel did after they witnessed the awesome power of God on the mountain in the wilderness).

God is frequently manifested in the old testament as appearing as a cherubim, as black smoke, as flashes of lightening (see the story of Moses and Elijah's encounters with God on the mountain and the appearance of God to the children of Israel in the wilderness).

Black and White

In the caves, they find two skeletons, one male and one female (Ep: 1x6, House of the Rising Sun). They jokingly dub them Adam and Eve.

In one of the skeleton's pocket there is a black stone and a white stone. Locke tells Walt about backgammon (the oldest game in history). He says that backgammon is a classic battle between good and evil. The Garden of Eden is the birthplace of good and evil.

Eden as an Island

In season 2, Locke is in the hatch working a crossword puzzle (Ep: 2x8, Collision). The camera focuses in on two words: Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Gilgamesh is an ancient hero (Mesopotamia) who survives a great flood (likely Bible's equivalent of Noah) and who afterwards calls on his God, Enkidu, for help finding eternal life. The ancients knew that eternal life used to reside in the Garden of Eden (it contained the tree of life). And during his search he locates it on an island -- read David Rohl's theories on Eden. The famed author/archeologist places Eden as likely the island of Bahrain. Now I'm not saying they're in Bahrain, just that at some point, Eden was thought to be on an island. That's the significant part. Eden was probably located somewhere in Armenia, but there was a post-flood change in thinking and somehow the idea of it as an island entered popular thought.

n episode 2x17, Lockdown, Locke sees a map on the blast door. The bunkers are strewn around the center of the island. The center is marked by a big question mark. Is this not the center of the garden which the black smoke, i.e. the cherubim, is keeping people away from?

Four Toed Statue

Sayid, Sun, and Jin see a giant statue of a foot with four toes (Ep: 2x23, Live Together, Die Alone). In Genesis chapter 4 there's a reference to giants (Nephellim) living on the earth. Personally I don't believe the bible means literal giants, rather men of great renown, but popular culture/thinking has turned giants into the literal translation. Assume that this is how the Lost creators chose to translate the Genesis 4 passage.

Social Experiment

The Garden of Eden was the first social experiment. God placed temptation, good and evil, in the garden. From that point on, mankind has been in a struggle with themselves and others. People argue that since God knew that by putting the tree of temptation (good and evil) there, it wasn't freewill. In other words, destiny. Others say that it doesn't matter that God knew, man still had a choice.

The garden has never been found. It is lost. Eternal life is still sought by mankind.

also:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Garden_of_Eden_(theory)

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just watched the episode..

i think i need a map to figure out how all the people intertwine in this alternative universe. OY!

i am looking forward to the richard-centric episode this week.

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just watched the episode..

i think i need a map to figure out how all the people intertwine in this alternative universe. OY!

i am looking forward to the richard-centric episode this week.

It sounds like a giant math problem to me.... :character0183:

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Big & telling episode last night.

Word.

I still think the overall premise still exists that has been mentioned over and over. There is a 'war' between Jacob and MIB. Good versus Evil.

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Big & telling episode last night.

Word.

I still think the overall premise still exists that has been mentioned over and over. There is a 'war' between Jacob and MIB. Good versus Evil.

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Word.

I still think the overall premise still exists that has been mentioned over and over. There is a 'war' between Jacob and MIB. Good versus Evil.

yes but having jacob be good seems so obvious and LOST is not obvious..

i am just hoping it doesnt turn into a deluded psychotic dream of hurleys in the psych ward. reminiscent of st. elsewhere.. but no snowglobe....

but speaking of which..

where is the polar bear? :lol:

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Word.

I still think the overall premise still exists that has been mentioned over and over. There is a 'war' between Jacob and MIB. Good versus Evil.

yes but having jacob be good seems so obvious and LOST is not obvious..

i am just hoping it doesnt turn into a deluded psychotic dream of hurleys in the psych ward. reminiscent of st. elsewhere.. but no snowglobe....

but speaking of which..

where is the polar bear? :lol:

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Well you knew tonight was going to be slow. Still some telling bits of info, such as the plane being the battle site, i.e. preventing the MiB's escape via it. What happens if the MiB escapes.

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Well you knew tonight was going to be slow. Still some telling bits of info, such as the plane being the battle site, i.e. preventing the MiB's escape via it. What happens if the MiB escapes.

Desmond's back... nothing else matters. :biggrin:

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Desmond's back... nothing else matters. :biggrin:

+1

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I think I might be in the minority, but I think the last 3rde of the season is shaping up nicely, as it usually does with this show. Also, I might be wrong, but I believe next week is the Jacob-MiB-centric episode. if we're ever gonna get their full backstory, it'll be then. Can't wait.

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