How good would Darnold look?

[Jetster]

Playing behind the Eagles Oline? 

Carson Wentz lit it up right away and proved he's going to be a good one, but a QB that had been overlooked, (Foles), dumped by the Rams (even Macc passed on him for Fitz), won a Super Bowl and the Eagles did not punt ONCE. 

We judge players & the truth is most are not playing on the same plane. Dak Prescott & Wentz are both benefitting from the 1st & 2nd best Oline in the entire league, plus they both have better RBs. 

Until Macc fixes the Jets Oline, comparing Sams early career to those QBs is like apples ? & oranges ?. I would have loved to see Sam Darnold playing behind those 2009, 2010 Jets Olines. It would probably looked much like Wentz & Prescotts rookie years. 

Oline & a pass rusher continue to be Maccs Achilles heel, but he's not alone in this league. 

[JetFaninMI]

What can I say except I agree. Hopefully the best case scenario happens and the OL plays league average or better and the Jets can trade TB for a decent draft pick. If they can get a decent WR and a second rounder for a malcontent DL what is an starting caliber QB worth? All I can say is if the Jets can somehow get a second rounder back in next years draft the first 2 picks need to be OL and EDGE. Even if they don't somehow get a 2nd those first two picks need to be at those positions. They need to focus on building around Sam and the first thing is to protect the guy.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

He would be better with the Cowboys backup OL at this point - wake up Mac, get some more coffee

[chirorob]

Yeah, he would look better.  

It was a great start.   But, let's remember, it was preseason game #1 against a lot of other teams backups.   I am totally excited about him, I'm not bashing him at all.  

[Jet Nut]

42 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Playing behind the Eagles Oline? 

Carson Wentz lit it up right away and proved he's going to be a good one, but a QB that had been overlooked, (Foles), dumped by the Rams (even Macc passed on him for Fitz), won a Super Bowl and the Eagles did not punt ONCE. 

We judge players & the truth is most are not playing on the same plane. Dak Prescott & Wentz are both benefitting from the 1st & 2nd best Oline in the entire league, plus they both have better RBs. 

Until Macc fixes the Jets Oline, comparing Sams early career to those QBs is like apples ? & oranges ?. I would have loved to see Sam Darnold playing behind those 2009, 2010 Jets Olines. It would probably looked much like Wentz & Prescotts rookie years. 

Oline & a pass rusher continue to be Maccs Achilles heel, but he's not alone in this league. 

How much better would he have looked last night?  What about the OL play needed to be better for Darnold last night?  Wha he was sacked late in the game?  SO, happens to any and every team in the preseason.  The line was fine for one night.  

[ASH1962]

Jet QB's were sacked once last night, late in the game, the OL did not play that poorly, why the hysteria about the OL? One thing is clear, we now have 2 QB's instead of none, Josh is a coach at this point and a valuable one at that. Also, after watching last nights game, I have a huge issue with even considering trading Teddy B, he looked awesome last night and could easily lead this team to competitiveness in my opinion.

That TD pass Sam threw on the roll out was a thing of pure beauty BTW, hate to say it, reminded me of the TD pass Sanchez threw against SD in the playoffs. You can see already the difference between Sam and Hack/Petty even early on. Quick release, scanning the field. Very encouraging. Kid's gonna be a great one.

[Jetster]

30 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How much better would he have looked last night?  What about the OL play needed to be better for Darnold last night?  Wha he was sacked late in the game?  SO, happens to any and every team in the preseason.  The line was fine for one night.  

I'm talking about when the REAL BULLETS fly. Jets Oline is mediocre at best. I like a lot of what Macc has done, but his detractors regarding ignoring the Oline in the draft have a point. I mean Stewart sucks, and he could have drafted Elflien instead & there was an obvious need at center. The Stewart pick is looking bad, plus there were rumors he was trying to maneuver to get Kamara, hindsite 20/20, should have given up Stewart & Hansen spots to snag Kamara. 

Getting Darnold will cover a lot warts.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Playing behind the Eagles Oline? 

Carson Wentz lit it up right away and proved he's going to be a good one, but a QB that had been overlooked, (Foles), dumped by the Rams (even Macc passed on him for Fitz), won a Super Bowl and the Eagles did not punt ONCE. 

We judge players & the truth is most are not playing on the same plane. Dak Prescott & Wentz are both benefitting from the 1st & 2nd best Oline in the entire league, plus they both have better RBs. 

Until Macc fixes the Jets Oline, comparing Sams early career to those QBs is like apples ? & oranges ?. I would have loved to see Sam Darnold playing behind those 2009, 2010 Jets Olines. It would probably looked much like Wentz & Prescotts rookie years. 

Oline & a pass rusher continue to be Maccs Achilles heel, but he's not alone in this league. 

Bowles and Mac are too stupid, too ignorant, too stubborn to “ all of a sudden “ care about OL. They have consistently ranked it dead last, in importance. It will be why both are fired in Jan 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Bowles and Mac are too stupid, too ignorant, too stubborn to “ all of a sudden “ care about OL. They have consistently ranked it dead last, in importance. It will be why both are fired in Jan 

Neither will be fired in Jan.  

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Playing behind the Eagles Oline? 

Carson Wentz lit it up right away and proved he's going to be a good one, but a QB that had been overlooked, (Foles), dumped by the Rams (even Macc passed on him for Fitz), won a Super Bowl and the Eagles did not punt ONCE. 

We judge players & the truth is most are not playing on the same plane. Dak Prescott & Wentz are both benefitting from the 1st & 2nd best Oline in the entire league, plus they both have better RBs. 

Until Macc fixes the Jets Oline, comparing Sams early career to those QBs is like apples ? & oranges ?. I would have loved to see Sam Darnold playing behind those 2009, 2010 Jets Olines. It would probably looked much like Wentz & Prescotts rookie years. 

Oline & a pass rusher continue to be Maccs Achilles heel, but he's not alone in this league. 

true the oline isn't as good as it should be but a really good qb can make an oline look pretty good too.  patsies are a prime example.  brady makes quick decisions so there isn't as much pressure on his oline to hold the pocket for very long.  and it takes time for an oline to jell.  this current group needs to play together for a few games (or even seasons) before all of the kinks are worked out.

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

true the oline isn't as good as it should be but a really good qb can make an oline look pretty good too.  patsies are a prime example.  brady makes quick decisions so there isn't as much pressure on his oline to hold the pocket for very long.  and it takes time for an oline to jell.  this current group needs to play together for a few games (or even seasons) before all of the kinks are worked out.

Oh, I agree about Darnold being able to help the Oline. My real point is what you can do with a GREAT OLINE. 1- You can get to 2 AFC Championship games with Mark Sanchez at QB, 2- You can WIN a Super Bowl with a guy with cement shoes like Nick Foles. 

[HawkeyeJet]

The Eagles are not the first or second best pass blocking OL in football.  They just aren't.  They gave up 36 sacks.  That's nothing to write home about.  I don't get how the Eagles OL is getting all this publicity as some sort of elite unit.  I digress.

The Jets OL isn't going to be an elite unit by any stretch.  If they can run the ball well, and utilize the play action and boot game well, they can be serviceable in a WCO passing game.

 

 

[sec101row23]

24 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The Eagles are not the first or second best pass blocking OL in football.  They just aren't.  They gave up 36 sacks.  That's nothing to write home about.  I don't get how the Eagles OL is getting all this publicity as some sort of elite unit.  I digress.

The Jets OL isn't going to be an elite unit by any stretch.  If they can run the ball well, and utilities the play action and boot game well, they can be serviceable in a WCO passing game.

 

 

Agreed.  These hypotheticals of how good would he look with this unit, or how good would he look with so and so at WR, are simply a waste of time.  The O line wasn’t a disaster last night, albeit against a rather simple defense and scheme.  Being able to run the ball somewhat effectively will be Darnold’s best friend.  

[Jetsplayer21]

46 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Neither will be fired in Jan.  

Did you also say mangini wouldn’t be fired after finishing 8-8 ?Just curious if you also said “ mangini will not be fired “ at any time in 08 season. 

Darnold is now the rare gem of the jets. There is really no other gem. If he gets mauled this yr, due to Mac letting Bowles pick and sign his D and fail, you bet they will be fired for a HC and gm Who actually understands a OL is important, especially with a young qb

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Did you also say mangini wouldn’t be fired after finishing 8-8 ?Just curious if you also said “ mangini will not be fired “ at any time in 08 season. 

Darnold is now the rare gem of the jets. There is really no other gem. If he gets mauled this yr, due to Mac letting Bowles pick and sign his D and fail, you bet they will be fired for a HC and gm Who actually understands a OL is important, especially with a young qb

What does Mangini have to do with Bowles?  

The OL played well, especially given the first preseason game and a starter out of the game.  The OL isnt nearly as bad as some complain about. Its not a strength but no one is running for their lives

If we're going to predict that the GM and HC are getting fired off of a preseason game, you would think it wouldnt really be the game where we take care of the team that should have won the SB two seasons ago.  A game we had all our QBs play extremely well and the defense pitch a shut out.  Might be the wrong time to talk about firings.

For all the talk leading up to last night, the OL sucks, the OL has no depth, the defense will suck, Bowles is looking to ground and pound the ball, Bates is questionable, Darnold has no chance developing under Bowles etc, might be time to just enjoy the game, because none of this came true last night

 

[Jetsplayer21]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

What does Mangini have to do with Bowles?

The OL played well, especially given the first preseason game and a starter out of the game.  The OL isnt nearly as bad as some complain about. Its not a strength but no one is running for their lives

If we're going to predict that the GM and HC are getting fired off of a preseason game, you would think it wouldnt really be the game where we take care of the team that should have won the SB two seasons ago.  A game we had all our QBs play extremely well and the defense pitch a shut out.  Might be the wrong time to talk about firings.

 

I merely was gauging if you also said in 08, “ mangini will not be fired if we finish 8-8” because you are quite known to blindly stand behind Jet coach, player. I like that..

Our OL was ranked 3rd from last. That is not good ! They base the rankings on sacks, hurries, ect. Don’t give me that bs. We are just so use to having a terrible OL since 2010 some say “ it’s not so bad, 2 teams are worse “?‍♂️?

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I merely was gauging if you also said in 08, “ mangini will not be fired if we finish 8-8” because you are quite known to blindly stand behind Jet coach, player. I like that..

Our OL was ranked 3rd from last. That is not good ! They base the rankings on sacks, hurries, ect. Don’t give me that bs. We are just so use to having a terrible OL since 2010 some say “ it’s not so bad, 2 teams are worse “?‍♂️?

Yeah, blindly stand behind a coach or player.

Heres the thing.  Its not 2017.  The line is different.  Injured players, new faces, a new coach and blocking scheme says last night was more important than how they stuggled in 17, especially once Petty was missing blocking calls for 3.5 games.  You have to do more than just look up numbers and blindly repeat them without context.  Guessing that youre going off of an article in PFF, the one that shows 13 teams allowed more QB pressures than the Jets.  As I said, QBs arent running for their lives....

[GreenFish]

I think by now, all Jets fans agree, the OL needs to be priority number 1 next offseason. The good news is that we will have the resources in free agency and the draft to fix the OL. Next years draft has 3 or so LT that may go in the top 15. We just need one. We can hopefully land a player like Shaq Mason and invest a day 2 pick on a Center to compete with Long and eventually replace him.

This year, all we need is for Winters and Shell to show that they can be at least average (seems reasonable to expect). If that happens, we can have a solid OL by this time next year as long as we commit to fixing the OL. 

This is why trading Teddy for a day 2 pick is important (ideally a 2nd round pick). The top interior lineman seem to go in the late 1st and 2nd round. We can potentially get a top LT and top interior lineman in next year's draft. I don't know how the interior lineman look for 2019, but there always seems to be a handful that are worthy of day 2 picks. 

[jetrider]

How confusing would the OP be without the apple and orange emojis?

The secret to our overrated '09-10 OL was Tony Richardson. We don't have T-Rich, Jones, Washington, LaDainian, or a wrecking ball RB. An anemic running game will sabotage the passing game. An explosive running game will enhance the air game. I'm particularly concerned about our backfield.

Please see attached pic: 

[Jetsplayer21]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, blindly stand behind a coach or player.

Heres the thing.  Its not 2017.  The line is different.  Injured players, new faces, a new coach and blocking scheme says last night was more important than how they stuggled in 17, especially once Petty was missing blocking calls for 3.5 games.  You have to do more than just look up numbers and blindly repeat them without context.  Guessing that youre going off of an article in PFF, the one that shows 13 teams allowed more QB pressures than the Jets.  As I said, QBs arent running for their lives....

Ok that was quite decent bullsh*t i will give you that ?‍♂️ I tend to be a realist. I do value rankings. We had top running game game, D in 09-10. Guess what, our running game and D was pretty dam good in 09-10 and carried a weak qb to playoffs twice. Eagles had a top ranked OL last yr, it made their back up look better than tom Brady. 

If you think “ zone blocking “ is end all cure for a very weak OL, more successful teams would be doing it to no ?

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Ok that was quite decent bullsh*t i will give you that ?‍♂️ I tend to be a realist. I do value rankings. We had top running game game, D in 09-10. Guess what, our running game and D was pretty dam good in 09-10 and carried a weak qb to playoffs twice. Eagles had a top ranked OL last yr, it made their back up look better than tom Brady. 

If you think “ zone blocking “ is end all cure for a very weak OL, more successful teams would be doing it to no ?

You really need to slow down and read before typing to what you think you read.  I said the OL isnt as bad as some have said, not saying theyre really good.  I also said, given the talk is over Sams health, that the QBs are hardly running for their lives.  You gave me their ranking, based on PFF, that also shows that 13 teams allowed more pressure to the QB than the Jets OL.  Your response is to bring up teams with the NFLs top OLs as if there isnt any room for OLs than arent number 1?  Can they get better, **** yeah.  Are they so bad that Darnold shouldnt be allowed to play as some have suggested?  Please

And of course call it bulshlt.  Or not realistic.

[Losmeister]

i wonder how he'd look behind the...

prolly not qs good as her, but his QBR would be nice.

[ASH1962]

Do not get the OL hysteria after a nice performance by 2 QB's last night. I am starting to believe that some of the members here would actually find something to complain about if we ever won another SB! I mean really, take it easy! The OL played ok last night, our 3 QB's did not get pounded at all against a decent team without their starting LT.

The OL will be fine for this season, then next season Mac will draft more OL.

To trade Teddy B for a "second day pick" as someone suggested earlier, after watching him last night would in my mind, be grounds for Mac being fired. Having said that, it is of course contingent on his staying healthy, but for an organization that has not had competent QB play in ages, who are we to start throwing away legitimate if not a really good starting QB?

 

 

[tfine]

Our Oline isn’t the best, but it’s def not the worst. Your line doesnt need to be Elite to win. A better then average line is all you need. Which is what the Jets have. You need a good Oline if your QB can’t move in the pocket. Which isn’t the case with Darnold


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, blindly stand behind a coach or player.

Heres the thing.  Its not 2017.  The line is different.  Injured players, new faces, a new coach and blocking scheme says last night was more important than how they stuggled in 17, especially once Petty was missing blocking calls for 3.5 games.  You have to do more than just look up numbers and blindly repeat them without context.  Guessing that youre going off of an article in PFF, the one that shows 13 teams allowed more QB pressures than the Jets.  As I said, QBs arent running for their lives....

Thank you. My God, the QB is so important to making an OL look good. Forget about getting the ball off quick, it's  all about calling the right protection. Has anyone ever noticed that Brady very rarely has a free runner coming at him, it's  because he always has the right protection called. Petty sucked at that. I think the OL got a lot better just by the addition of Teddy. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

I think by now, all Jets fans agree, the OL needs to be priority number 1 next offseason. The good news is that we will have the resources in free agency and the draft to fix the OL. Next years draft has 3 or so LT that may go in the top 15. We just need one. We can hopefully land a player like Shaq Mason and invest a day 2 pick on a Center to compete with Long and eventually replace him.

This year, all we need is for Winters and Shell to show that they can be at least average (seems reasonable to expect). If that happens, we can have a solid OL by this time next year as long as we commit to fixing the OL. 

This is why trading Teddy for a day 2 pick is important (ideally a 2nd round pick). The top interior lineman seem to go in the late 1st and 2nd round. We can potentially get a top LT and top interior lineman in next year's draft. I don't know how the interior lineman look for 2019, but there always seems to be a handful that are worthy of day 2 picks. 

Man this is a tough room. Didn't  Long just play his first game as a Jet and a preseason one at that and you already want to get rid of him?

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Thank you. My God, the QB is so important to making an OL look good. Forget about getting the ball off quick, it's  all about calling the right protection. Has anyone ever noticed that Brady very rarely has a free runner coming at him, it's  because he always has the right protection called. Petty sucked at that. I think the OL got a lot better just by the addition of Teddy. 

I said this long ago, Petty had no idea when it came to blocking calls at the line.  If you cant ID the blitz, how are you going to make the right calls?

[PS17]

I think Darnold will be fine this year. Even if the line is below average, he’s the kind of quarterback that will still play well. He has some of that Russell Wilson playground style when things start to break down. We saw it at USC time and time again. 

@HelenOfTroy, how would you rate USC’s protection of Darnold the past two years? 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

How confusing would the OP be without the apple and orange emojis?

The secret to our overrated '09-10 OL was Tony Richardson. We don't have T-Rich, Jones, Washington, LaDainian, or a wrecking ball RB. An anemic running game will sabotage the passing game. An explosive running game will enhance the air game. I'm particularly concerned about our backfield.

Please see attached pic: 

THIS!

1,000%

I've posted about this several times over the years.  T Rich was the straw that stirred the drink of our running game those years.

Do you think Thomas Jones or Shonn Greene we elite, Pro Bowl type RBs?  No way.  Were defenses afraid of the Mark Sanchez passing game?  C'mon.  We had a very good OLine but everything else was average.....except Tony Richardson.  He would make the one key block on every play that sprung guys for big yards.  A 2 yard rush became a 6 yard rush as he picked up the MLB.  A 4 yard rush sprung for a 50 yard TD and Tony hit the second level and took out the approaching Safety.

Bring the Fullback back to Football!  It will really, really help.

[HelenOfTroy]

49 minutes ago, PS17 said:

I think Darnold will be fine this year. Even if the line is below average, he’s the kind of quarterback that will still play well. He has some of that Russell Wilson playground style when things start to break down. We saw it at USC time and time again. 

@HelenOfTroy, how would you rate USC’s protection of Darnold the past two years? 

2016 was just OK, Sam made the online better than it was, no question.  2017 was awful due to injury of 3 experienced starters, true freshman forced to start.  Sam struggled, but again, made lemonade out of lemons.

that tOSU D  manhandled our offense, it was embarrassing, not much a QB can do on his back, but it did show Sammy still managed to throw for some yards.

[bealeb319]

He needs some weapons around him is what he really needs couple of nice deep misses that maybe would have been avoided if he had someone to throw the ball too. We need to get him a solid tight end and a true number 1 reciver, one that can fight for 50/50 balls

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsplayer21]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You really need to slow down and read before typing to what you think you read.  I said the OL isnt as bad as some have said, not saying theyre really good.  I also said, given the talk is over Sams health, that the QBs are hardly running for their lives.  You gave me their ranking, based on PFF, that also shows that 13 teams allowed more pressure to the QB than the Jets OL.  Your response is to bring up teams with the NFLs top OLs as if there isnt any room for OLs than arent number 1?  Can they get better, **** yeah.  Are they so bad that Darnold shouldnt be allowed to play as some have suggested?  Please

And of course call it bulshlt.  Or not realistic.

You bleed jet green, I love that. I want the same thing you do,a great Jet team. We haven’t picked a OL before the “fifth round” I repeat “ fifth round since we took winters 3rd in 2013!!!We haven’t  signed even “ one “ top tier OL since when 09.  ? See the trend ??!! and you actually think nothing is wrong with that ????

 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

You bleed jet green, I love that. I want the same thing you do,a great Jet team. We haven’t picked a OL before the “fifth round” I repeat “ fifth round since we took winters 3rd in 2013!!!We haven’t  signed even “ one “ top tier OL since when 09.  ? See the trend ??!! and you actually think nothing is wrong with that ????

 

 

 

I repeat, the OL isn't as bad as you're saying it is.  I'm not the only one saying it.  Doesn't make a difference when they drafted at OL.  They need to address the OL as well as edge.  It also isn't 2017, give it a chance.  Nothing here says I don't think they can't get better or don't want the OL addressed.  Let's see how a healthy Winters and the change at C add.  

[Jetsplayer21]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I repeat, the OL isn't as bad as you're saying it is.  I'm not the only one saying it.  Doesn't make a difference when they drafted at OL.  They need to address the OL as well as edge.  It also isn't 2017, give it a chance.  Nothing here says I don't think they can't get better or don't want the OL addressed.  Let's see how a healthy Winters and the change at C add.  

Replacing the very worst center in NFL was a good start ?‍♂️ We just have a HC who only sees D. A gm who goes with him,  unless It’s to chase a qb. Just like Mike t /rex days.. nobody in nfl drafts more D than the jets. Fact. We also splurge and sign D guys to Major contracts. Never Offense . Yet our D still sucks 

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Replacing the very worst center in NFL was a good start ?‍♂️ We just have a HC who only sees D. A gm who goes with him,  unless It’s to chase a qb. Just like Mike t /rex days.. nobody in nfl drafts more D than the jets. Fact. We also splurge and sign D guys to Major contracts. Never Offense . Yet our D still sucks 

Let's not go there too, lol.  You predicted Bowles was going into ground and pound ala Rex and it's apparent that that's not happening.  Didn't happen with Fitz, didn't happen with McCown and didn't happen with anyone last night before 17-0.  

Jets drafts are pretty much split half D, half O.  Probably leans more to the O.  Nowhere near the percentages youre thinking.  We've been through this before on the board.  Add them up, the perception isn't always reality.