That's Mr. Williams to you Leonard

[Jetster]

How much will Leonard Williams be worth as a free agent? Call me crazy, but breaking the bank on a Dlineman that isn't sack machine is nuts! Von Miller? yes, Khalil Mack? yes, Aaron Donald? yes, Leonard Williams? No freaking way! 

Unfortunately for the NY Jets, the only player that ever deserved an NFL boffo contract was Darelle Revis, even than you could argue that Brady & Belichick just schemed around his talent. Giving a huge contract to Dbrick? worth it, making Nick Mangold the highest paid center? not worth it. 

We saw what happened with Wilkerson, that's not to say Leo isn't a hard worker, the guy has been a model citizen, its just that these big interior dlineman just don't CHANGE the game like an edge rusher, or a Elliott at RB, or a OBJ. 

The headline of this post says it all. Trent Williams, a 6 time probowler neutered Leo in practice today...STONED HIM. Now you give me a young Trent Williams vs a Leonard Williams & ask me who gets the huge payday? Trent Williams EVERYTIME. 

One of the biggest issues always for the Jets has been overpaying for just above average talent. Leonard Williams is a really good player, problem is he's not a GREAT PLAYER. Someone in earlier posts regarding Khalil Mack stated they would trade Williams & a pick for Mack. I tend to agree. How much worse would the interior be going from Leo to Nathan? How much better would the outside pass rush be going from Bass, or Martin, Donahue, or Luvu to Khalil Mack? 

With 90 million next year, it would be a helluva lot easier to find a veteran DT than a pass rusher. Some interesting decisions ahead in the years to come.

[Untouchable]

Trent Williams is one of the Top 3 LT’s in football when healthy.

So this shouldn’t really come as a shock.

I’d still invest in Leo longterm if he has a good season this year.

[detectivekimble]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Trent Williams is one of the Top 3 LT’s in football when healthy.

So this shouldn’t really come as a shock.

I’d still invest in Leo longterm if he has a good season this year.

Yes, but if you're top defensive lineman, you should still win some of the battles.  He got his sh*t pushed in.

[Losmeister]

for me, what i've witnessed, Leo was way overdrafted at #6.

basically, the whole NFL scouting system overrated him. 

[UntouchableCrew]

He’s literally the best player on the team. Let’s get rid of him.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

for me, what i've witnessed, Leo was way overdrafted at #6.

basically, the whole NFL scouting system overrated him. 

And fans too.  Myself included, thought he was legit.  People were comparing him to Reggie White (which in retrospect was totally ridiculous).

I think Leo is worth the investment as long as his pay is in line with his play.  I cant imagine Leo demanding that much in the open market but who knows.  So crazy contracts are starting to get thrown around.  Give him a fair contract that doesnt kill the eventual Darnold second contract?  I'm good with it.  Otherwise, his role is easily replaced. 

 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

He’s literally the best player on the team. Let’s get rid of him.

I think Avery Williamson will hold that title when it's all said and done this season. 

Or (getting my boner pants ready) Darnold!!!

[ScarletKnight89]

Leonard Williams is a good NFL player. Probably better than good to be fair. But he's not worth breaking the bank over. He's not that type of player at all. Hopefully when it's time for him to hit the market the Jets can bring him back at a fair price. 

[RESNewYork]

It's one thing to over react when watching a pre season game. It's a whole other level to over react to tweets from a joint practice. 

By this logic, if Leo gets a sack on Thursday then he deserves the big contract? If he beats Trent in another practice rep, do the Jets tack on another million? 

He's got 16 games to show what he's worth.

[GreenFish]

So how much is reasonable for Leo’s services?  Not seeing numbers thrown out there. How much is everyone expecting him to get paid?

Suh got a $14 mil contract. That’s probably Leo’s ceiling if he takes a step forward. 

 

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He’s literally the best player on the team. Let’s get rid of him.

PFF has him ranked 38.

 

[The Crusher]

nice solid player deserves a nice solid contract. Nothing more nothing less.

[Jetster]

13 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Trent Williams is one of the Top 3 LT’s in football when healthy.

So this shouldn’t really come as a shock.

I’d still invest in Leo longterm if he has a good season this year.

Fletcher Cox is the highest paid Dtackle at 17.1 million. I tend to believe that Fletcher Cox is a better player than Leonard Williams. But Leos agent won't let that stop him from trying to get more than 17 million. 

Leonard Williams would have to play like the best DT in football, Leo had 2 sacks last year. 2019 & 2020 would have to be STELLAR for me to give him a 2nd contract. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Hes slightly above a JAG.  If he wants to stay here, he has to accept a slightly above JAG contract.

[Losmeister]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think Avery Williamson will hold that title when it's all said and done this season. 

Or (getting my boner pants ready) Darnold!!!

perty much this.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

18 minutes ago, Jetster said:

How much will Leonard Williams be worth as a free agent? Call me crazy, but breaking the bank on a Dlineman that isn't sack machine is nuts! Von Miller? yes, Khalil Mack? yes, Aaron Donald? yes, Leonard Williams? No freaking way! 

Unfortunately for the NY Jets, the only player that ever deserved an NFL boffo contract was Darelle Revis, even than you could argue that Brady & Belichick just schemed around his talent. Giving a huge contract to Dbrick? worth it, making Nick Mangold the highest paid center? not worth it. 

We saw what happened with Wilkerson, that's not to say Leo isn't a hard worker, the guy has been a model citizen, its just that these big interior dlineman just don't CHANGE the game like an edge rusher, or a Elliott at RB, or a OBJ. 

The headline of this post says it all. Trent Williams, a 6 time probowler neutered Leo in practice today...STONED HIM. Now you give me a young Trent Williams vs a Leonard Williams & ask me who gets the huge payday? Trent Williams EVERYTIME. 

One of the biggest issues always for the Jets has been overpaying for just above average talent. Leonard Williams is a really good player, problem is he's not a GREAT PLAYER. Someone in earlier posts regarding Khalil Mack stated they would trade Williams & a pick for Mack. I tend to agree. How much worse would the interior be going from Leo to Nathan? How much better would the outside pass rush be going from Bass, or Martin, Donahue, or Luvu to Khalil Mack? 

With 90 million next year, it would be a helluva lot easier to find a veteran DT than a pass rusher. Some interesting decisions ahead in the years to come.

Agree with most of this. While I don't agree that bigger linemen can't/don't change the game like an edge rusher, I agree someone like Leo doesn't change the game like a top-5 edge rusher.

Aaron Donald is a game-changer. JJ Watt was a game changer before the injuries began. Suh is (or anyway, can be) a game changer. Plenty of others past and present (before his injury look what a difference a healthy Kris Jenkins made).

The thing isn't merely that Leo is in that physical mold; it's that, at least so far, he isn't one of these ridiculous difference-makers. 

 

[Jetster]

18 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He’s literally the best player on the team. Let’s get rid of him.

We have him under contract till the end of 2020 I believe. No one is saying get rid of him for nothing. I'm just saying I wouldn't think twice about using him in a trade for Mack & there is no way I'm breaking the bank for him with an early reup contract if his agent gets into those Fletcher Cox numbers now that we hopefully found our franchise QB in Darnold. 

You look at a player like Joey Bosa, and then you look at a Leonard Williams and you realize how Leo dropped to the 6th spot. Now, if Bosa dropped to the 6th instead of going 3rd overall, that would have been a coup. Joey Bosa is DEFINITELY getting a 2nd contract in LA, Williams? don't be so sure if he has an agent with unrealistic expectations.

[Sperm Edwards]

Don't expect an early extension beyond 2019, though it should be heavily considered unless we're looking to trade him. His 5th year option was already exercised at $14m, and I don't expect to see that rescinded. While it's possible he'll be extended earlier, that's not our GM's style. History suggests we'll wait until after the 2019 season and then we'll pay him going rate for a UFA.

If we're keeping him even in the absence of improvement to the elite tier, which is what I think is going to happen, we may as well extend him now. If he doesn't improve, make it a number they were comfortable paying anyway; if he does turn into the JJ Watt Lite he was drafted to be, then we got a bargain closer to $14m/year than $20m/year (which is what a 25-26 yr old Watt-Lite UFA will cost in/around March of 2020). 

We'll see any day now, if not today, what Donald will command on an extension while the team still has him locked in for this 5th yr option season.

[jetstream23]

29 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

for me, what i've witnessed, Leo was way overdrafted at #6.

basically, the whole NFL scouting system overrated him. 

We overdraft everyone at #6!

We also are mostly horrible at drafting in the 2nd round.

We also could be 0 for 3 on WRs taken between Rounds 2 and 4 under Macc (Devin Smith, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen).

We also do not seem to have drafted a starting OLineman in any recent draft with the possible exception of a RT in Shell.

 

OTHER THAN THAT, we've done pretty well.  Have you seen Sam Darnold?

[bealeb319]

im glad we know leonard is going to demand to be paid as a top taleng when we still have him under contract for 2 more seasons...why dont we let the kid keep playing and developing than talk about what he is worth when it comes time to extend him?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[Untouchable]

32 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Yes, but if you're top defensive lineman, you should still win some of the battles.  He got his sh*t pushed in.

Based on what?

I saw like two tweets posted that said Trent got the the best of Leo in a one on one drill in addition to the short little video. I think it was one of the Redskins writers who said it was a great matchup but gave the edge to Trent and that they both slapped each other on the helmet after the drill respectfully.

I’m assuming these guys went at it multiple times over the last two days but these beat writers aren’t going to report on every single rep.

[jetstream23]

31 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He’s literally the best player on the team. Let’s get rid of him.

Possibly, but it's debatable.  The point that's been made that I agree with is that while he is an all-around excellent DLineman he is not a sack guy and he's not Aaron Donald.  He's just a very good pedestrian DLineman.  We can't overpay for a guy like that.  I didn't argue with drafting him at #6 that year but Vic Beasley should have been the choice in that spot.  I get it....the Jets had big DLine concerns with Harrison departing, Sheldon Richardson's off-field issues, etc. but Williams needs to start making periodic game-changing plays and become a real difference maker to justify a huge investment.  I like the guy, I want to keep him, I don't want to pay $15M per year to do it.

[Jetster]

3 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

im glad we know leonard is going to demand to be paid as a top taleng when we still have him under contract for 2 more seasons...why dont we let the kid keep playing and developing than talk about what he is worth when it comes time to extend him?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

Just don't want him to be an overpaid NY Jet. He needs to bring it this season, 2 sacks don't cut it for me as a fan. It's time for Leo the Lion to really show up & put himself on the NFL map, I doubt other fans know that much about him. Time to make himself known.

[Warfish]

39 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Yes, but if you're top defensive lineman, you should still win some of the battles.  He got his sh*t pushed in.

He's not one of the top Defensive Linemen.

No one outside NY knows who he is, and while he gets some props from media talking heads, it's usually about "potential" and "young", not "wow lots of production".

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Possibly, but it's debatable.  The point that's been made that I agree with is he while he is an all-around excellent DLineman he is not a sack guy and he's not Aaron Donald.  He's just a very good pedestrian DLineman.  We can't overpay for a guy like that.  I didn't argue with drafting him at #6 that year but Vic Beasley should have been the choice in that spot.  I get it....the Jets had big DLine concerns with Harrison departing, Sheldon Richardson's off-field issues, etc. but Williams needs to start making periodic game-changing plays and become a real difference maker to justify a huge investment.  I like the guy, I want to keep him, I don't want to pay $15M per year to do it.

an argument that Demario Davis was the best D player last year is not invalid, either

[dbatesman]

I'm a big Williams stan, but even I can't disagree with any of this. 

[bealeb319]

Just don't want him to be an overpaid NY Jet. He needs to bring it this season, 2 sacks don't cut it for me as a fan. It's time for Leo the Lion to really show up & put himself on the NFL map, I doubt other fans know that much about him. Time to make himself known.

Good players get double or triple teamed on the line. People weren't worried about Wilkerson last year I think Sheppard and Williams are both going to have good seasons this year.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[Kleckineau]

32 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He’s literally the best player on the team. Let’s get rid of him.

Its not about "Lets get rid of him" its about "Lets not over pay him"

He is a good player. If the Jets have any sense they wont pay him like a great player.

[Losmeister]

this horse dead

Just now, Kleckineau said:

Its not about "Lets get rid of him" its about "Lets not over pay him"

 

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I'm a big Williams stan, but even I can't disagree with any of this. 

Is that near Pakistan?

[The Crusher]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree with most of this. While I don't agree that bigger linemen can't/don't change the game like an edge rusher, I agree someone like Leo doesn't change the game like a top-5 edge rusher.

Aaron Donald is a game-changer. JJ Watt was a game changer before the injuries began. Suh is (or anyway, can be) a game changer. Plenty of others past and present (before his injury look what a difference a healthy Kris Jenkins made).

The thing isn't merely that Leo is in that physical mold; it's that, at least so far, he isn't one of these ridiculous difference-makers. 

 

Albert Haynesworth before he signed with the Redkins was amazing.

[Jetster]

9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Albert Haynesworth before he signed with the Redkins was amazing.

And a complete lunatic! At least we know Leo is a sane individual even if he's just an above average Dlineman.

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

And a complete lunatic! At least we know Leo is a sane individual even if he's just an above average Dlineman.

Agreed. Solid player solid contract. No problem with that.

[HawkeyeJet]

Trent Williams completely shutdown Mack last year.

Trent Williams hasn't allowed a sack since Week 6 in 2016.

Trent Williams has allowed the fewest QB pressures of any OT since he entered the league.

If you are drawing conclusions about Leonard Williams for not "winning" his drills against Trent Williams, your opinion should be taken very lightly.

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Trent Williams completely shutdown Mack last year.

Trent Williams hasn't allowed a sack since Week 6 in 2016.

Trent Williams has allowed the fewest QB pressures of any OT since he entered the league.

If you are drawing conclusions about Leonard Williams for not "winning" his drills against Trent Williams, your opinion should be taken very lightly.

My point exactly, Trent Williams is GREAT, Leo is good. Leo had 2 sacks last year, he didn’t face 16 Trent Williams.