HawkeyeJet Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jetster said: My point exactly, Trent Williams is GREAT, Leo is good. Leo had 2 sacks last year, he didn’t face 16 Trent Williams. That's not your point exactly. Your point exactly is spend money on a great pass rusher like Khalil Mack who also didn't do sh*t against Trent Williams. If you don't think Williams is as good as advertised, so be it. How he did against Trent Williams in situational practice drills is trivial. Just out of curiousity, if Trent Williams lined up against say Von Miller 100 times in the same drill(or one on one in a game) how many times do you think Miller "gets the best" of Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: That's not your point exactly. Your point exactly is spend money on a great pass rusher like Khalil Mack who also didn't do sh*t against Trent Williams. If you don't think Williams is as good as advertised, so be it. How he did against Trent Williams in situational practice drills is trivial. Just out of curiousity, if Trent Williams lined up against say Von Miller 100 times in the same drill(or one on one in a game) how many times do you think Miller "gets the best" of Williams Please don’t talk about Von Miller & Khalil Mack in the same sentence as Leonard Williams. Where did people rank these 3 in the NFL top 100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, The Crusher said: Albert Haynesworth before he signed with the Redkins was amazing. Yep. I was initially trying to name players who are still in the league (before mentioning Jenkins just because he was with the Jets and there was such a stark comparison from the prior few pre-Jenkins seasons). That he was a crazy loon doesn’t factor into it. There are lunatics at any number of positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jetster said: Please don’t talk about Von Miller & Khalil Mack in the same sentence as Leonard Williams. Where did people rank these 3 in the NFL top 100? I'm not. I'm simply asking you, since you value those practice results so much, as to what you think a "stud" pass rusher would produce in 100 opportunities. Obviously you know the answer if you know that Leonard Williams was "neutered". I'm just curious to what that number is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexJet Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Wow....Jets fans, just wow! I'm speechless after reading some of the comments on Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcola Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 First, let’s not over react in two or three drills. OL own even the best pass rushers most of the time. What makes a guy elite is when he can get by OL 4 or 5 times a game that may result in a sack or two. The fact that Trent Williams blocked Leo in the drills is the equivalent of one drive in a game. All Leo has to do is blow by him once to have a shot at a sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Dude, what if he has 10 sacks this season. It's not that crazy to think he can do that. He had 7 in 2016. 10 is not a ridiculous amount. But its certainly not peanuts. Then what???! Just saying. He's already been able to stay healthy, is a positive influence in the locker room, is as solid as it gets against the run, requires double teams and creates havoc in the backfield. I would definitely invest big money in a player that does EVERYTHING except produce sacks in the top 5. At 10 a season he would probably be somewhere closer to top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Leo is too used to whooping the scrubs on the Jets line lol These practices are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 August over-reaction threads are the best over-reaction threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Williams is a nice player. He's not a pass rusher. He's a versatile 3-4 End, that can play DT also. He was not worth #6 over all. We should have drafted Vic Beasley. Especially having Wilkerson and Richardson on the books at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: August over-reaction threads are the best over-reaction threads. I don't know. The week 1 over reaction thread is usually pretty amazing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 How have all those overpaid Defensive line players help Miami??? REX has been drafting Dline for ever and none have been pro bowl type players. Not even WILK. Lets not overpay unless he commands respect and is pro bowl material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Let me give y'all a contract; tell me if you think it's reasonable. A five year 98 million dollar deal, 20 million dollar signing bonus, 50 million guaranteed 2019- 14 million fully guaranteed base, 18 million cap 2020- 16 million fully guaranteed base, 20 million cap 2021- 16 million base, 20 million cap 2022- 12 million base, 16 million cap 2023- 14 million base, 18 million cap 2024- 20 million base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, southparkcpa said: How have all those overpaid Defensive line players help Miami??? REX has been drafting Dline for ever and none have been pro bowl type players. Not even WILK. Lets not overpay unless he commands respect and is pro bowl material. Wilkerson was an All Pro under Rex and Richardson was DROY and a Pro Bowler under Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 The reason you pay Leonard is because you’re letting Lee walk the next year, and the year after that Jamal Adams is going to ask for cornerback money, which, lol. So if Macc lets Leonard walk, he’s got nothing to show for his first three years of drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, T0mShane said: The reason you pay Leonard is because you’re letting Lee walk the next year, and the year after that Jamal Adams is going to ask for cornerback money, which, lol. So if Macc lets Leonard walk, he’s got nothing to show for his first three years of drafting. Similar to his first 3 years of rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 31 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Wilkerson was an All Pro under Rex and Richardson was DROY and a Pro Bowler under Rex. Where are they now. NEITHER one, had the look of a good DE. Wilk in my view always seemed a step too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsman1 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 The video i watched Leonard Williams bullrushed Trent Williams four or five yards straight backwards into the QB....he got the sack.He reached out and tapped the QB(guy with the ball),thats all he has to do to get the sack and the win over the LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I have no idea why this is even a discussion at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Integrity28 said: Similar to his first 3 years of rebuilding. If we let Williams walk, a not-insignificant portion of this board will laud Maccagnan for “finally cutting the dead weight from the roster.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 D line is like O-line in a way. The big guys aren’t as athletic as the skill position players so they tend to have longer careers and there seems to be a lot of good vets that can be found easily like Steve McLendon for example. The Linebackers/passrushers make a 3-4. Save money on the D-line by maybe having/paying 1 stud like Leo(especially given our cap situation and lack of talent to sign). The old situation of Sheldon, Mo, Snacks AND Leo was insane. We pretty much lost the first 3 and resigning all of them would have been a huge mistake. You don’t overspend on the overall D line in a 3-4. The reason why Pittsburgh D used to be great is because of their rock solid line backing core. I love Leo and think we should resign him as long as it matches production but we should not look for 3 studs on the D line to spend on. If we find a late round, UDFA or FA signing that knocks it out of the park, awesome but it’s not a good use of resources when you are trying to build a team and spending(expensive contracts and/or high draft picks) while neglecting other key areas. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayRay Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Leo is 24, the age when most NFL players are starting just their sophomore season. In other words, he still has plenty of room to grow. Last year, after a nice 7-sack season in 2016, he had a wrist industry that no doubt contributed to a slow start. We all know he had little help on the line and was constantly double teamed. Yet he led all 3-4 DEs in QB hits with 17 in 2017, according to PFF. So even though he had only two sacks, he was still among the best defenders at applying consistent pressure on the QB. He also graded out as among the leagues best run defenders. I repeat: He did all this at the age of 24. On top everything else, he’s shown himself to be a good kid, a leader and someone eager to put the work in to get better. So the talk I’m seeing in this thread about him being a “jag” or just an “average” player makes no sense. The facts don’t back it up and, on the contrary, indicate that he is a rising star. I’m glad as hell we have him and fully expect the Jets to extend him. Maybe if some of you looked beyond sack totals you might see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Jetster said: Just don't want him to be an overpaid NY Jet. He needs to bring it this season, 2 sacks don't cut it for me as a fan. It's time for Leo the Lion to really show up & put himself on the NFL map, I doubt other fans know that much about him. Time to make himself known. Like Revis his last year, totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Ghost said: I have no idea why this is even a discussion at this point. No one in this discussion is calling Leo a Jag, my point is that AFTER you find your franchise QB your eventually going to have to pay him a small fortune, so it's imperative that the other highest paid players are compensated relative to their production. Leo is the only player whose contract demands will be very large because he is considered the best player on a very average team. If you don't think his agent won't be asking for Leo to be the highest paid DT in the league you haven't been paying attention to these agents. Im hoping Leo takes his play to another level the next 2 years but unless he gets to even a Geno Atkins in his prime level, I doubt he'll be worth the contract he'll be looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Integrity28 said: August over-reaction threads are the best over-reaction threads. Don’t you think you’re overreacting a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Jetster said: No one in this discussion is calling Leo a Jag, my point is that AFTER you find your franchise QB your eventually going to have to pay him a small fortune, so it's imperative that the other highest paid players are compensated relative to their production. Leo is the only player whose contract demands will be very large because he is considered the best player on a very average team. If you don't think his agent won't be asking for Leo to be the highest paid DT in the league you haven't been paying attention to these agents. Im hoping Leo takes his play to another level the next 2 years but unless he gets to even a Geno Atkins in his prime level, I doubt he'll be worth the contract he'll be looking for. This is the “dilemma”. These agents are crazy plus with the CBA uncertainty, it’s tough to know what to expect. I love Leo and even though he’s not the Aaron Darnold/JJ Watt type that he was supposed to be (that’s crazy and rare anyways), I think he is a really solid player. The problem is like you said, the agent will ask for the moon and I’m sorry, Leo hasn’t earned that yet. If he wants top 10 DT money, that would be more than fair given the ever rising cap etc but this is based on him having a better year than last year, our great cap situation and “good faith” for a genuinely good guy/leader that can lead his unit (D-line) for years. Plus, I think his 5th year option is pricey ( $14 million for DE and $11 million for DT depending on what they classify Leo as) and by not making him wait until it’s over, he may come down on price. We will know more after his performance this year but if we redo the deal early, I believe we will get a reasonable number. Doing it early won’t “hurt” us either since the 5th year option is pretty high and the difference from $11million to $16million annually is not the end of the world and yes I do expect a number of at least $15 million/year from Leo given the current market. Like I said in another post, splurge on 1 D line player tops (Leo can and should be that player), use late round picks/FA vets for the other 2 lineman and move on to other positions. How often do we actually draft someone good? We lost our core of Brick,Harris, Mangold and Revis but it seems like Leo fits the bill for a new jets core/fan favorite. If he stinks it up and still wants too money, then we have a problem and you cannot overpay THAT much just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said: This is the “dilemma”. These agents are crazy plus with the CBA uncertainty, it’s tough to know what to expect. I love Leo and even though he’s not the Aaron Darnold/JJ Watt type that he was supposed to be (that’s crazy and rare anyways), I think he is a really solid player. The problem is like you said, the agent will ask for the moon and I’m sorry, Leo hasn’t earned that yet. If he wants top 10 DT money, that would be more than fair given the ever rising cap etc but this is based on him having a better year than last year, our great cap situation and “good faith” for a genuinely good guy/leader that can lead his unit (D-line) for years. Plus, I think his 5th year option is pricey ( $14 million for DE and $11 million for DT depending on what they classify Leo as) and by not making him wait until it’s over, he may come down on price. We will know more after his performance this year but if we redo the deal early, I believe we will get a reasonable number. Doing it early won’t “hurt” us either since the 5th year option is pretty high and the difference from $11million to $16million annually is not the end of the world and yes I do expect a number of at least $15 million/year from Leo given the current market. Like I said in another post, splurge on 1 D line player tops (Leo can and should be that player), use late round picks/FA vets for the other 2 lineman and move on to other positions. How often do we actually draft someone good? We lost our core of Brick,Harris, Mangold and Revis but it seems like Leo fits the bill for a new jets core/fan favorite. If he stinks it up and still wants too money, then we have a problem and you cannot overpay THAT much just because. My point exactly. I hope he kicks azz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Leo is 24, the age when most NFL players are starting just their sophomore season. In other words, he still has plenty of room to grow. Last year, after a nice 7-sack season in 2016, he had a wrist industry that no doubt contributed to a slow start. We all know he had little help on the line and was constantly double teamed. Yet he led all 3-4 DEs in QB hits with 17 in 2017, according to PFF. So even though he had only two sacks, he was still among the best defenders at applying consistent pressure on the QB. He also graded out as among the leagues best run defenders. I repeat: He did all this at the age of 24. On top everything else, he’s shown himself to be a good kid, a leader and someone eager to put the work in to get better. So the talk I’m seeing in this thread about him being a “jag” or just an “average” player makes no sense. The facts don’t back it up and, on the contrary, indicate that he is a rising star. I’m glad as hell we have him and fully expect the Jets to extend him. Maybe if some of you looked beyond sack totals you might see this. Oh, you mean Jets fans are frequently dumb and wrong? Who knew.Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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