Quick Observations (WSH)

[Matt39]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

what i took away is that once again on the road the jets under bowles looked flat, almost to a man.

Agreed. Preseason so you can give it somewhat of a pass. But Lee looked dreadful and the secondary looked disinterested. Trumaine Johnson's "effort" last night was pathetic.

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

On 4th down I want my QB taking a shot at extending the drive rather than throwing the ball out of bounds
as one analyst suggested.  They do realize that if you don't get the first down the ball is
being "turned over" anyway?

Tell that to Cimini.

Darnold's first INT. Bates trusted him on fourth-and-1, but it was a poor read. He threw into coverage. First rule of QBing: No turnovers in the red zone. #Jets

— Rich Cimini (@RichCimini) August 17, 2018

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Agreed. Preseason so you can give it somewhat of a pass. But Lee looked dreadful and the secondary looked disinterested. Trumaine Johnson's "effort" last night was pathetic.

the more players like johnson who come here and look ordinary, the bigger indictment it is on the defensive coaching staff and bowles.  the offense is expected to struggle with a rookie qb and makeshift OL that had 2 starters out last night.  

[Ruby2]

Tesitore and Witten were god awful. "Throw it away on 4th down!" ummm.....ok then

Going to be another brutal season of unwatchable monday night games. Booger is being wasted if they are going to only use him on the sideline, get him in the booth. ESPN needs to let analysts like Booger and Riddick call games instead of keeping them on the sidelines or doing the highlight shows. But ESPN is stupid so no wonder this is what they do.

Onto the team, this defense is just depressing. Same thing over and over again. No pass rush, too much time on 3rd down etc etc. WHY THE HELL DIDNT YOU TAKE BEASLEY HE WAS RIGHT THERE!!!! Arghhhh so frustrating.

Darnold is on his way. I have no problem starting him or going with McCown. This team isn't yet ready to compete anyway, and I dont want him to die behind our offensive line which apparently isnt important to Mac at all.

[#27TheDominator]

Sam Darnold 2nd preseason game, understands red light, yellow light, green light.  Mark Sanchez...? 

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

When you talk about me (not the topic), like a 13 year old girl whining about "hate"?  Yeah, ok, Teen Beat.

I mean you're literally the "Leave Brittney Alone" gif ffs.

Yes, an 8 for 11, 62 yard + one shorty INT and a bunch of held-it-too-long sacks in a half of football with no passes longer than what, 8 yards in the air, and 3 points scored?

I'd call that Penningtonesque.   

He absolutely has the potential to be a long-term elite starter in the NFL (clear enough for you Teen Beat?).  His poise and confidence, and even his decision making, is very impressive thus far.

That doesn't mean he has shown he is the best choice to start now, for this team as currently built, in game #1.  And he hasn't, TB (through the first two) has been materially better than him.  

Still a long way to go, PS Games #3 especially, but #4 too as needed.  Darnold could look elite next week and throw for 3 TD's in a half, and TB could sh*t the bed.  It's still early.

As of today, however, I would not start Darnold, not behind this tissue-paper O-line and with these weakest link offensive skill players.  I see no impetus to rush Darnold into being beat up week in and week out just to "learn".  We have a perfectly acceptable QB to play in TB who is better equipped, today, to win games and lead the team.  If we can shore up the O-line and show we have any skill players worth a damn, and Darnold contnues to improve to be closer to equal to TB, I would then fully support his starting.

In before all this becomes wasted effort and you go back to more Teen Beat "hate" talk.  

WTF are you talking about with this Teen Beat sh*t?  so strange...

I've said numerous times in a million threads, I wouldnt start Sam the first 4 weeks of the season.

Anywho, have a good day sir.  Enjoy (or dont) the Sammy ride.

 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Ruby2 said:

Tesitore and Witten were god awful.

They really, truly were.  Godawful, actually.

Is that the MNF A-Team these days?

If so....man, that's just bad.  

[flgreen]

15 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Tell that to Cimini.

If it was 3rd down in a regular season game I'd agree with Cimini.  it was 4th down.  No downside to try and force the ball in traffic.

[flgreen]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

WTF are you talking about with this Teen Beat sh*t?  so strange...

I've said numerous times in a million threads, I wouldnt start Sam the first 4 weeks of the season.

Anywho, have a good day sir.  Enjoy (or dont) the Sammy ride.

 

JiF this is your fault for reading a Warfish post.  

[BroadwayRay]

I could see Witten turning out alright. You could tell he was a little nervous in his debut--this is preseason for him too. McFarland sitting in the crane, on the other hand, seemed like nothing but a gimmick.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

If it was 3rd down in a regular season game I'd agree with Cimini.  it was 4th down.  No downside to try and force the ball in traffic.

play design was terrible, all wrs on one half of the field and covered.  only option was to chuck it up and hope for a good catch or PI.  sack does nothing on 4th down.  situational awareness, just like when he threw it away in the first series.

for the first time in a long time, qb is NOT the problem with this team.  

[KRL]

For those who think Darnold was "awful" last night, here are the starters/contributors
that didn't play on offense:

Beachum (LT)
Winters (RG)
Herndon (TE)
Sterling (TE)
Enunwa (WR)
Pryor (WR)
Crowell (RB)
Cannon (RB)

Context is a wonderful thing

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, KRL said:

For those who think Darnold was "awful" last night, here are the starters/contributors
that didn't play on offense:

Beachum (LT)
Winters (RG)
Herndon (TE)
Sterling (TE)
Enunwa (WR)
Pryor (WR)
Crowell (RB)
Cannon (RB)

Context is a wonderful thing

the offense did about what i thought it would do.  the defense looked lost.

[Gas2No99]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

I'll re-watch the game tonight after work but just off the top of my head:

- Sluggish effort in all phases as it seemed a week of travel, practices and fights
carried over to the game

- A very soft defensive effort which allowed too many yards.  The good thing was they were
able to tighten up in the red zone and only give up FG's

- There was no pressure from the standard pass rush and Bowles didn't seem to dial up
many/any blitzes.  The run defense was ok but there were mistakes that allowed a couple
of big runs (Darron Lee got washed out on one big gainer)

- The tackling was nowhere near as clean as the ATL game and there were way too many
personal fouls.  Frankie Luvu has to clean up his technique, he brings the kind of
effort you want in applying pressure but you can't give up multiple personal fouls

- Avery Williamson, Doug Middleton, Jordan Jenkins and for the first time as a Jet
Rashard Robinson flashed

- Offensively Bates worked around a banged up OLine and tried not to expose them and
the QB's by keeping the passing game short & quick.  They allowed pressure though as WSH
got Jonotthan Harrison to whiff on one sack and forced Sam Darnold into another sack due
to coverage.  There was no consistent movement in the run game, the starters need to get
healthy and back into the lineup

- Sam Darnold impressed me more in this game than the ATL one.  He struggled in his first drive
with a three and out then recovered in his next two to move the ball into scoring territory.
In addition playing behind a makeshift OLine with pressure coming, he never seemed rattled.
He made good decisions with the ball and even the INT wasn't a bad play.  On 4th down I
want my QB taking a shot at extending the drive rather than throwing the ball out of bounds
as one analyst suggested.  They do realize that if you don't get the first down the ball is
being "turned over" anyway?  Darnold also improved getting the team in and out of the huddle as
he was able to get to the line with 12-15 seconds left on the clock 

- Teddy Bridgewater played well and hopefully continues to increase his value.  Considering
the pressure he was under he showed good mobility in the pocket and his usual accuracy.
Bridgewater's INT was bad because WSH CB had the vertical route covered he should have thrown
a back shoulder   

you're getting sloppy,  Bullet Points, not Dashes! 

[MaxAF]

My personal take. First of all preseason games are not about winning or losing. It’s about seeing each individual player and determining who should be on the roster and who should be cut. Darnold did pretty well against the 1st team Washington Defense. O-line was a sieve and didn’t give the QB much time. I think Bates anticipated this and designed short passing situations. RBs were out so we were looking at a #3 back. Again O-line did not open up many holes. Defense was soft with minimal blitzes. May be designed that way for preseason. None the less they looked bad. Secondary was beat often. Darren Lee looked lost out there and over matched. I don’t see him being an impact player at all. 

Run game-D

O-line- F-

QB- C+

D-line- D

Secondary- C-

[Gas2No99]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the offense did about what i thought it would do.  the defense looked lost.

Any competent fan who watched last night's game only became MORE ENAMORED w/Darnold considering what he was facing and what he had to work with. He was Kid Cool and did not look rattled AT ALL. That, is a GREAT thing. 

What everyone and their mothers SHOULD be upset about was the Horrid lack of discipline by the Defense. Awful tackling, over-pursuits, poor technique which lead to Personal Foul Penalties, etc. The Redskins MARCHED down the field on the Jet's D and if should serve as a wake-up call. Leonard Williams is a one-man defensive wall and Nate Shephard is coming along nicely, considering he's a DII player.

 

The zone blocking scheme and play calling did take into account the lack of Talent & Quality of the OLine - and I thought it was surfeit. It's all you could ask of Bates to call since there was no Push for the Run game and not enough time for Darnold to take a Deep Shot Downfield. Teddy looked GREAT and I'd rather have him be the starter to begin the season since this Oline WILL get Darnold killed; Teddy has a better shot of moving the offense w/his experience. 

 

[Drums]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Your hate for this kid has been showing big time lately with another absolutely ridiculous take.

The guy wrote a book on the game and not even one positive? Cool. 

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

This is who Williams and Adams were in college. Decent players who will probably get paid elsewhere.

Don't watch a lot of college football, huh?

[MDL_JET]

 

 

[slats]

3 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

The constant media gushing about Sam Darnold is making me ill. I mean what is the rush to start him behind an amateur OL at best? 9 passes 63 yards with one hideous red zone int that was 150% his fault. Big whoop. One FG no Td drives led in 2 quarters. Not saying he is no good, just saying all of this praise is to me, extremely premature at this point. He is 21 years young and a rookie in every sense, I just cannot fathom the rush to get him into the starting role with such crap in front of him, no running game; basically zero supporting talent on offense.

Speaking of rushing, what is the rush to trade the second best QB in the AFC east? Teddy B is looking awesome in every way - as a leader, as a team mate, and as a starting QB. We will never get fair value for him enough to impact what looks to be a 4-12 team at best. I sign him long term and keep him here and let him use his legs to keep us competitive, maybe win a few games here and there while Sam learns, and stays alive and in one piece. We know what we've got with Teddy, still do not know about Sam for sure, although the prognosis seems to be good. Keep the man here.

3

A veteran QB looked better against backups than a rookie QB looked against starters? Pretty shocking right there. 

Darnold didn't do anything to derail the plan to make him the opening day starter last night. Yes, it was a rough outing, but the whole team looked bad. Their bad OL had two backups in there (one at LT). They didn't have their starting RB, they were missing WRs and TEs who they expect to either start or play large roles. And yet the kid still kept his cool, still completed over 70% of his passes, continued to protect himself and the ball for the most part. Getting on him for the fourth down interception is pretty ridiculous. He's got to make a play there or they lose the ball either way, and there was nowhere for him to go with it except to force it. Really, the Redskin made a questionable play by catching the ball. 

And here's the thing with Teddy that seems to be eluding his fans and Sam's detractors: he's not signing with the Jets long term. He's already played well enough this preseason, and taken enough hits, that someone is going to give him a starting job next year - or at least a genuine chance to win one. He will not have that opportunity with the Jets, and will not resign here as a result. If all three QBs make it out of training camp healthy (and McCown probably isn't playing another down), Teddy will be trade bait. It's either trade him for something now or tip-toe thru free agency next year and hope and pray for -at the very best- a pick close to #100 overall in 2020. 

Starting Teddy over Sam gets the team nowhere for the long term. Sam isn't supposed to be the top QB on the team right now, but he is the QB with the most potential. Players reach their potential by playing, not by running the scout team and talking to Josh McCown on Sundays. 

[Matt39]

16 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Don't watch a lot of college football, huh?

I saw them both play. They were both ordinary. Especially Adams. The combine reinforced the eye test.

[bostonmajet]

I am not sure what game many people were watching, but like another poster said, I am more impressed with Darnold (and Bridgewater) than I was in the first pre-season game. It is more important to see how a QB plays under pressure and 'behind', then when you are rolling. He didn't have a lot of time to throw, the WRs weren't get a ton of separation, and he didn't have a run game to lean on.

With all of that, IMO, he only made one real mistake. He missed the read on the 4-1. Not only will pro QBs miss it or try to force it in, but it was 4th down - only the statisticians and people with a grudge care whether it was an incomplete or INT. Either way, the skins get the ball.

He stood in there (or moved around), and found WRs on his 2nd or 3rd reads. Fired in lasers. Move the ball down field even with no run game and a porous OL. He stood tall, and didn't panic. When is the last time we had a QB do all of that. And, he is 21 playing in his second game. 

I think the real problem here is many people have unrealistic (even ridiculous) expectations. The do it with the coaches (not making excuses for Bowles), the GM (nor Mac), CBs (how can a CB give up a long play or a TD - even Revis in his prime gave up plays), and now we are doing it with our rookie QB.

Maybe we should cut him now and save a few million; oh wait, our looser GM guaranteed him too much money - good thing we got those concessions on his contract.

[slats]

54 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, an 8 for 11, 62 yard + one shorty INT and a bunch of held-it-too-long sacks in a half of football with no passes longer than what, 8 yards in the air, and 3 points scored?

1

For Sam Darnold, two sacks equal "a bunch." 

For Teddy Bridgewater, two sacks aren't worth mentioning. 

Got it. 

[HawkeyeJet]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I saw them both play. They were both ordinary. Especially Adams. The combine reinforced the eye test.

Good stuff.  Truly.  You saw them both play in college and your "eyes" told you ordinary?  That's gold.  

[thshadow]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

"and a bunch of held-it-too-long sacks in"

For Sam Darnold, two sacks equal "a bunch." 

 

And for 1 sack "holding it too long" was for like 1 second.

[Matt39]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Good stuff.  Truly.  You saw them both play in college and your "eyes" told you ordinary?  That's gold.  

College production- ordinary. Eye Test- ordinary. Combine- ordinary. Not sure what else we can go by.

[HawkeyeJet]

Just now, Matt39 said:

College production- ordinary. Eye Test- ordinary. Combine- ordinary. Not sure what else we can go by.

In 39 career games at USC Williams had 35.5 TFL, 20 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 fumble recoveries.  That's "ordinary" production to you?  The only eye test being reinforced is that your personal eye test is baseless and should not be valued by anyone.

[jbt]

41 minutes ago, KRL said:

For those who think Darnold was "awful" last night, here are the starters/contributors
that didn't play on offense:

Beachum (LT)
Winters (RG)
Herndon (TE)
Sterling (TE)
Enunwa (WR)
Pryor (WR)
Crowell (RB)
Cannon (RB)

Context is a wonderful thing

will they all be ready to go in week in 1? 

there is a new blocking scheme so this missed time could hurt Winters and Beachum even if they do start year

Crowell has a concussion and could last a while

[Creepy Lurker]

24 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

 

 

Nice clip. I loved watching that live. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

In 39 career games at USC Williams had 35.5 TFL, 20 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 fumble recoveries.  That's "ordinary" production to you?  The only eye test being reinforced is that your personal eye test is baseless and should not be valued by anyone.

Williams has 12 sacks in 3 seasons. What are the eyes missing 

[Greenseed4]

@KRL if I recall, the Teddy INT was back shoulder throw that the receiver took vertical.  Had Johnson cut off his route before the CB he would have made the grab.  Bridgewater s body language seemed to suggest that he wanted #88 to do what the defender did. Good D. 

[HawkeyeJet]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Williams has 12 sacks in 3 seasons. What are the eyes missing 

I'd switch my point now if I were you too.  

As far as your NFL eye test, since you were clearly wrong about him in college, it is fairly obvious that your eye test is missing everything else about Defensive line play other than QB sack stats.

[thshadow]

For those saying that Darnold "stunk" - which of his plays were actually bad?

- The INT was definitely a bad play.  I think he just didn't see the underneath guy - which is the kind of mistake that good experienced QBs don't make.  I'd like to see the all-22 to see what his other options were.  But that was probably the worst play he's made in a pre-season game (with the 2nd worst being the near-INT from game 1).

- Early on, that throw-away play - that wasn't a good play, but it was a good decision.  I don't know about you, but I've often found myself screaming at our clueless QBs to throw the ball away (when it's not 3rd or 4th down).  He showed situational awareness, and didn't try to do too much.

- For the "dink and dunk" complaints.  To me, dink and dunk is take a 7 step drop, scan the field, and then check down to your running back because you don't think you can throw anyone open. That's what Chad did.  If instead you take a 3 to 5 step drop, make a quick decision, and gain 5 to 10 yards - well, that's the play design, executed well.  Plus - how was he on 3rd down conversions?  I don't know the stat, but I think it was a very high conversion rate.  The main dink and dunk thing that drives all of us crazy is the 5 yard completion on 3rd and 7.  But did that happen?  The only time I remember *that* happening was the play before the INT, when maybe Anderson ran his curl too short.

[Philc1]

Nate Shepherd looked good other than that our defense is going to be really, really bad this season

 

 

thanks Todd!

[Philc1]

Just now, thshadow said:

For those saying that Darnold "stunk" - which of his plays were actually bad?

- The INT was definitely a bad play.  I think he just didn't see the underneath guy - which is the kind of mistake that good experienced QBs don't make.  I'd like to see the all-22 to see what his other options were.  But that was probably the worst play he's made in a pre-season game (with the 2nd worst being the near-INT from game 1).

- Early on, that throw-away play - that wasn't a good play, but it was a good decision.  I don't know about you, but I've often found myself screaming at our clueless QBs to throw the ball away (when it's not 3rd or 4th down).  He showed situational awareness, and didn't try to do too much.

- For the "dink and dunk" complaints.  To me, dink and dunk is take a 7 step drop, scan the field, and then check down to your running back because you don't think you can throw anyone open. That's what Chad did.  If instead you take a 3 to 5 step drop, make a quick decision, and gain 5 to 10 yards - well, that's the play design, executed well.  Plus - how was he on 3rd down conversions?  I don't know the stat, but I think it was a very high conversion rate.  The main dink and dunk thing that drives all of us crazy is the 5 yard completion on 3rd and 7.  But did that happen?  The only time I remember *that* happening was the play before the INT, when maybe Anderson ran his curl too short.

Darnold has one really good drive and two meh drives facing the redskins first team D on the road.  How that’s considered “stinking” I dunno

 

These fanboys need to continue salivating over Mayfield throwing touchdowns against 4th stringers