Bridgewater & 6th Rounder traded to Saints for a 3rd Rounder

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Would you rather have Hackenberg or Davis Webb? My point was that immediately upon the Bridgewater trade you were complaining about them signing this guy, who is, I repeat, a valid NFL prospect. 

If it were about what I want, our starting QB would currently be Deshaun Watson, so clearly what I think is irrelevant.

Seriously tho, this may be the funniest backslap thread necro in my memory.  Kudos to you fo SO nailing this, I guess.

If he is a valid NFL prospect, I look forward to seeing him playing in preseason on an NFL roster.  

[#27TheDominator]

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

If it were about what I want, our starting QB would currently be Deshaun Watson, so clearly what I think is irrelevant.

Seriously tho, this may be the funniest backslap thread necro in my memory.  Kudos to you fo SO nailing this, I guess.

If he is a valid NFL prospect, I look forward to seeing him playing in preseason on an NFL roster.  

That's just it.  I am not slapping myself on the back.  I didn't nail anything.  I was just pointing out that this guy wasn't the joke investment banker that you thought he was.  We'd probably both have gone with Watson and we'd probably both be wrong not to have gone with Mahomes.

There are literally hundreds of fringe guys like this that you never heard of, some of them will belong on an NFL roster and one may be the next Kurt Warner or Tony Romo.  If you sit on "name" guys, you will never find out.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's just it.  I am not slapping myself on the back.  I didn't nail anything.  I was just pointing out that this guy wasn't the joke investment banker that you thought he was.

Again, the guy has played one good game, in a minor league.  This alone does not justify and legitimize anything whatsoever.  It's one game.  In the minors.  I'm not going to eliminate the possibility that he may become something yet, but we're far, FAR from that being real today.

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

 We'd probably both have gone with Watson and we'd probably both be wrong not to have gone with Mahomes.

No question I would be wrong, as I was clear at the time I would not "reach" on Mahomes.  But like Brady/Bellichek, I reamin unsure that Mahomes without the walrus would be the stud he is with the Walrus.  System and coaching plays more of a role in great QB's than alot of folks like to admit.

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

There are literally hundreds of fringe guys like this that you never heard of, some of them will belong on an NFL roster and one may be the next Kurt Warner or Tony Romo.  If you sit on "name" guys, you will never find out.

I am generally not a fan of worn out old "name" Qb's, and frankly I cannot recall our debate back when beyond the fact that I minimized this guy (who to me was a no name, had never really heard of him, nor heard him being any kind of legit prospect, i.e. he was a roster spot placeholder).

The AAF is full of these guys, hell people on this very site wanted to sign Metzenberger to be our new all-pro franchise QB at one point (lol) and even Hackenberg had his fanbois here at JN too (lol).  I'm not going to suddenly think either of those two gusy is legit if they have a good game at the AAF level.

Lets talk when the season is over, and we have some meaningful play over time from all these minor league guys, and then we'll have a basis to judge their NFL-level potential.  That's my view.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Again, the guy has played one good game, in a minor league.  This alone does not justify and legitimize anything whatsoever.  It's one game.  In the minors.  I'm not going to eliminate the possibility that he may become something yet, but we're far, FAR from that being real today.

No question I would be wrong, as I was clear at the time I would not "reach" on Mahomes.  But like Brady/Bellichek, I reamin unsure that Mahomes without the walrus would be the stud he is with the Walrus.  System and coaching plays more of a role in great QB's than alot of folks like to admit.

I am generally not a fan of worn out old "name" Qb's, and frankly I cannot recall our debate back when beyond the fact that I minimized this guy (who to me was a no name, had never really heard of him, nor heard him being any kind of legit prospect, i.e. he was a roster spot placeholder).

The AAF is full of these guys, hell people on this very site wanted to sign Metzenberger to be our new all-pro franchise QB at one point (lol) and even Hackenberg had his fanbois here at JN too (lol).  I'm not going to suddenly think either of those two gusy is legit if they have a good game at the AAF level.

Lets talk when the season is over, and we have some meaningful play over time from all these minor league guys, and then we'll have a basis to judge their NFL-level potential.  That's my view.

You're kind of making my point.  You can't know about these guys unless you get them in camp and work with them.  I never wanted this guy because I said he was going to become Kurt Warner, but if you don't try you'll never win.  You think the guy has to play in the NFL to show his NFL level potential.  He doesn't.  He's done that.  Is it sustainable?  How good can he be?  Who the **** knows, but he is basically free.  It makes much more sense to me than dumping money on old stiffs like Fitzpatrick and McCown.

[The12th Man]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's just it.  I am not slapping myself on the back.  I didn't nail anything.  I was just pointing out that this guy wasn't the joke investment banker that you thought he was.  We'd probably both have gone with Watson and we'd probably both be wrong not to have gone with Mahomes.

There are literally hundreds of fringe guys like this that you never heard of, some of them will belong on an NFL roster and one may be the next Kurt Warner or Tony Romo.  If you sit on "name" guys, you will never find out.

I’m old enough to remember when Matt Sims was like 34 for 40 against the Philadelphia Eagles in the fourth pre season game. 

[jgb]

Still say mistake to trade bridge although darnold looks good so no harm no foul 

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, The12th Man said:

I’m old enough to remember when Matt Sims was like 34 for 40 against the Philadelphia Eagles in the fourth pre season game. 

Bryce Petty:  15/18 for 250 yds, 3 TDs and 0 INTs in the 2017 Snoopy Bowl.  Kid's gonna be a star.

[slats]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

Still say mistake to trade bridge although darnold looks good so no harm no foul 

At the time of the trade, people were talking about Bridgewater as a franchise QB. A year later, and I think it's questionable whether or not he gets an offer to more than just compete for a starting job. I'm curious to see what his next contract looks like and who it's with. Last year, the trade was discussed as a bird in the hand vs. the potential comp pick they might get in 2020. That pick being a third-rounder being bandied about. Instead, I don't expect him to garner a deal that registers above the fifth round comp pick level. 

I was very vocally in favor of the trade and am glad the Jets have that extra, albeit very late, third rounder this year. Especially, as you say, with Darnold looking good and the Jets missing their second-round pick this year because of him. 

[jetstream23]

On 2/12/2019 at 8:17 AM, Villain The Foe said:

Facts. Seems like you'd do a better job as our GM than that asshat we currently have. 

 

On the bright side, we have fewer asshats now than we did a couple months ago.

[#27TheDominator]

55 minutes ago, The12th Man said:

I’m old enough to remember when Matt Sims was like 34 for 40 against the Philadelphia Eagles in the fourth pre season game. 

 

48 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Bryce Petty:  15/18 for 250 yds, 3 TDs and 0 INTs in the 2017 Snoopy Bowl.  Kid's gonna be a star.

What's your point?  You forgot Brett Ratliff who outplayed both of them.  The point isn't that this kid, or any of them, will be a star.  The point is that they deserve to be in camps and making fun of a GM for trying to hit on a long shot by keeping them on the 90 is silly.

The whole argument here started because people think we should have held Bridgewater.  Well, if we did, we would have less cap space, maybe another 2 wins which would be a worse draft pick, but still last place.  Darnold would still be our only QB under contract.  We aren't sniffing a comp pick, because even if Bridgewater rates at the highest level, that would be cancelled out by our hitting the FA market for C, G, backupQB, WR, EDGE, T, K, etc, etc. 

Wolford looks like the type of kid who could be a solid NFL backup.  Nothing to get excited about, but certainly not a joke. Funny thing is, he kind of reminded me of Fitzpatrick when I watched the pre-draft pieces on him. 

I actually supported dumping him for Davis Webb, based on the higher upside, but IMO Webb is a squid who does not belong in the NFL and he won't amount to anything either.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You're kind of making my point.  You can't know about these guys unless you get them in camp and work with them.

I don't agree.  For example, I don't think the Jets "need to get" ME in camp to know I am not, in fact, the next incarnation of Peyton Manning.

For fringe prospects, they have be amazing in any shot they get, be it in camp, or workouts, or the combine, or whatever.

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I never wanted this guy because I said he was going to become Kurt Warner, but if you don't try you'll never win.

I generally am fine with the idea of giving players a shot.  

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You think the guy has to play in the NFL to show his NFL level potential.  He doesn't.  He's done that.  Is it sustainable?  How good can he be?  Who the **** knows, but he is basically free.

So yeah, crapshoot.  I am sure for every Wolford there are a dozen other, equally qualified, fringe prospects someone could argue for just as much.  

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

  It makes much more sense to me than dumping money on old stiffs like Fitzpatrick and McCown.

Agree to disagree, sort of.  Fitzpatrick had the 2nd best year in Jets QB history, and no amount of mocking can take that away.  Sure, the team utterly botched his resigning (typical Jets), and the team under him went to sh*t fast, with injuries and poor play.  So 1 of 2 years was good, 1 was sh*t.

McCown I never wanted to start with, but other fans have made an argument that Darnold needed him this year to mentor him.  Fine I suppose.

I have no reason to think Davis Webb doesn't deserve to be on the roster at this point.  I have no reason to think John Wolford should be on the roster instead of him.  As I've said, one game at the minor league level does not make a guy better than a guy currently on an NFL roster.  With that said, maybe he is, our team is not exactly well known for QB talent evaluation.

And with THAT said, what if Hackenberg throws 5 TD's next week?  Should HE be on an NFL roster?  Rush to judgemnt is a thing, so like I keep saying, lets wait and see how this AAF year plays out.  There is literally no reason to rush evaluations here.

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

ink Davis Webb doesn't deserve to be on the roster at this point.  I have no reason to think John Wolford should be on the roster instead of him.  As I've said, one game at the minor league level does not make a guy better than a guy currently on an NFL roster.  With that said, maybe he is, our team is not exactly well known for QB talent evaluation.

And with THAT said, what if Hackenberg throws 5 TD's next week?  Should HE be on an NFL roster?  Rush to judgemnt is a thing, so like I keep saying, lets wait and see how this AAF year plays out.  There is literally no reason to rush evaluations here.

No reason to think Davis Webb doesn't belong, but every reason to think Wolford doesn't?  I want you to remember that you knew nothing of the kid, except that he got a job with a brokerage during camp and decided he was not worth a shot.  Davis Webb has been the big man on campus and lost his job to Mayfield(kind of), and Mahomes.  Then he ran off to Cal and played a year.  In the NFL, when the Giants wanted to "see what the young guys had" and benched Manning, they went to Geno Smith, who was on a one year deal, instead. 

My rush to judgment is not pointing out - "Look, he was the best QB in the minor leagues!  I told you he'd be a star!"  It is pointing out that a guy you described as a "nobody" that we'd never hear from again started and had a better day than numerous draft picks and formerly more highly regarded guys that you would have preferred.

But, you keep banging that drum that I said he'd be Warner or Romo.  

[Scoop24]

Lmaooo I remember dudes in this thread were telling me the saints where gonna re flip him for a 1st. Mac blew it . 

[Warfish]

30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

No reason to think Davis Webb doesn't belong, but every reason to think Wolford doesn't?

Two NFL teams seem to think David Webb is worth rostering.

Thirty-two NFL teams seem to think John Wolford isn't currently worth rostering.

I think that's a legitimate factual basis for what I wrote.

Quote

I want you to remember that you knew nothing of the kid, except that he got a job with a brokerage during camp and decided he was not worth a shot.  Davis Webb has been the big man on campus and lost his job to Mayfield(kind of), and Mahomes.  Then he ran off to Cal and played a year.  In the NFL, when the Giants wanted to "see what the young guys had" and benched Manning, they went to Geno Smith, who was on a one year deal, instead.

You're a hardcore Wolford fanboi, I get it man.  No one necros a Wolford thread to backpat himself who isn;t a Wolford fanboi. 

For whatever reason, you CLEARLY think this kid is better than 64 other backup QB's in the NFL today and was literally robbed of his chance in the NFL.

Ok, what exactly do you want to hear now?  If he rocks the AAF, he may get his chance.  I doubt it will be in New York.  So.....what now?

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My rush to judgment is not pointing out - "Look, he was the best QB in the minor leagues!  I told you he'd be a star!"  It is pointing out that a guy you described as a "nobody" that we'd never hear from again started and had a better day than numerous draft picks and formerly more highly regarded guys that you would have preferred.

You continue to mistake one game in the minors with something that warrants the rapt attention of NFL-level consideration.  

Today, he is still a "nobody".  The same way the very best Baseball player playing in his first game in a new minor league is a nobody when viewed from a pro level.  He could become a somebody, I don;t think anyone denies that.  

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But, you keep banging that drum that I said he'd be Warner or Romo.  

Dude, read your posts, you're clearly very worked up over the apparent miscarriage of justice that was.....John Wolford not...what?, being signed by the Jets? 

Let me be very clear, this is irrlevant to the Jets.  Wolford was not and never will be the starting QB of the New York Jets, so why should I give a flying fark about what chances he did or did not get?  This is a Jets board, not a Wolford board. 

Guy was a fringe prospect, and like dozens of fringe prospects, he didn't make it in the NFL.  Thanks to the new AAF minor league he gets another shot, and good for him, because otherwise his career would already be over. 

So good for him, but why should I care any more than I care about any other fringe QB not currently in the league?  We have Darnold.  We're almost assuredly going to sign an NFL experienced veteran backup.  If we roster a third QB, it's probably a prospect currently in the league (like Webb).  

What is it you want exactly?  To cut Webb and sign Wolford to be our #3?

[#27TheDominator]

31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You're a hardcore Wolford fanboi, I get it man. 

Wow!  You told me!

Why do you bother to discuss players or teams?  When your defense is "NFL teams roster him" there is no real reason to bother discussing something.  

I wave the white flag.  You were right.  The Jets shouldn't have traded Bridgewater. He could have started those three games McCown lost.  The Jets could have gotten as many as 7 wins! Never mind that they wouldn't have a 3rd, they'd still have their 6th and we surely could sign Bridgewater to a long term deal with all that cap space. There is no reason for any players that you haven't heard from to be on the roster, even when it is at 90.  I'm sure that you thought Brandom Moore, Mike Devito and Damon Harrison belonged the moment you heard their names.  

[Warfish]

37 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wow!  You told me!

/Shrug, playing the victim after necro'ing a thread to pat yourself on the back because an NFL castoff had a good game in his first showing in a new minor league.

Amazing scenes.

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Why do you bother to discuss players or teams?

Because I am a fan of the NFL and the New York Jets, and I enjoy discussions relevant to those two topics.

What I don't understand is your obsession with Wolford.  Is he your brother of something?  It's just weird man.

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When your defense is "NFL teams roster him" there is no real reason to bother discussing something.  

I'm not making a "defense".  I'm stating fact. 

You're all hot that Wolford should be in the NFL and Webb shouldn't.  Clearly, to-date, the NFL as a whole disagrees with you.

Maybe in a few weeks, if Wolford keeps lighting up the minor leagues, maybe that will change.

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I wave the white flag.  You were right.  The Jets shouldn't have traded Bridgewater. He could have started those three games McCown lost.  The Jets could have gotten as many as 7 wins! Never mind that they wouldn't have a 3rd, they'd still have their 6th and we surely could sign Bridgewater to a long term deal with all that cap space. There is no reason for any players that you haven't heard from to be on the roster, even when it is at 90.  I'm sure that you thought Brandom Moore, Mike Devito and Damon Harrison belonged the moment you heard their names.  

We'll never know how alternate history would out.  Had the Jets started Bridgewater from day 1, and let Darnold learn for a year, there is simply no way to know what our record would have been.  I don;t believe my ideal was wrong, that you do not give up on a season before it starts.  My belief was at that moment that Bridgewater would have done better (wins/losses) than Darnold/McCown.  Darnolds play, especially in the second half, puts that belief to the test, no doubt about it.  But I still believe Darnold/Bridgewater > Darnold/McCown, and that Bridgewater would have been signable as a long term #2, and a value-based investment at that spot.  I'll repeat, I do not plan for future draft position before the season has even started.  I simply don't think like a loser that way.

Conversely, I'm still trying to determine what it is you think is worthy of a thread necro-back-pat here.  What is it that you think should have happened exactly?  The Jets signing Wolford, clearly, and cutting McCown and trading away Bridgewater.  Ok.....and?

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

/Shrug, playing the victim after necro'ing a thread to pat yourself on the back because an NFL castoff had a good game in his first showing in a new minor league.

Amazing scenes.

Because I am a fan of the NFL and the New York Jets, and I enjoy discussions relevant to those two topics.

What I don't understand is your obsession with Wolford.  Is he your brother of something?  It's just weird man.

I'm not making a "defense".  I'm stating fact. 

You're all hot that Wolford should be in the NFL and Webb shouldn't.  Clearly, to-date, the NFL as a whole disagrees with you.

Maybe in a few weeks, if Wolford keeps lighting up the minor leagues, maybe that will change.

We'll never know how alternate history would out.  Had the Jets started Bridgewater from day 1, and let Darnold learn for a year, there is simply no way to know what our record would have been.  I don;t believe my ideal was wrong, that you do not give up on a season before it starts.  My belief was at that moment that Bridgewater would have done better (wins/losses) than Darnold/McCown.  Darnolds play, especially in the second half, puts that belief to the test, no doubt about it.  But I still believe Darnold/Bridgewater > Darnold/McCown, and that Bridgewater would have been signable as a long term #2, and a value-based investment at that spot.  I'll repeat, I do not plan for future draft position before the season has even started.  I simply don't think like a loser that way.

Conversely, I'm still trying to determine what it is you think is worthy of a thread necro-back-pat here.  What is it that you think should have happened exactly?  The Jets signing Wolford, clearly, and cutting McCown and trading away Bridgewater.  Ok.....and?

I'm was literally not even going to bother reading this, but I did, so you have that. 

The point of the necro was not to get a pat on the back.  It was to point out that you have much less of an idea of the potential of bottom of roster guys than many around here.  You thought we'd never hear from him again.  We have. You continue waving that flag, that I said he will be a stud.  He has almost nothing to do with this, other than being the particular name you chose to sh*t on in August. 

I agree you probably shouldn't give up on a season before it starts, but this GM did.  Two years in a row.  Purposely propping up Bridgewater served no purpose.  At best we'd just lose the 3rd.  What if he plays well?  You think he is going to sign a contract to be our #2 QB?  Why?  Because we will pay him more than some starters?  Because we will have to if we want to keep him.  Do you think this team was going on a playoff run with him? 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm was literally not even going to bother reading this, but I did, so you have that.

Sure.

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The point of the necro was not to get a pat on the back.

Lol, sure.

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It was to point out that you have much less of an idea of the potential of bottom of roster guys than many around here.

i.e. "Pat me on the back, please, I totally NAILED that one NFL castoff camp arm guy who had one good game in the minor leagues!"

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 You thought we'd never hear from him again.  We have.

Not as an NFL QB we haven't.

I'll keep posting it till it sinks in:  One game.  First game.  Minor League.  Vs. Other Minor League Players.  Not the NFL.

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You continue waving that flag, that I said he will be a stud.

Legit question:  What exactly is your point here?  No one in the NFL wanted him.  Neither did I.  Do you think it was me that called all the NFL GM's and warned them away?  Am I responsible for this guy not havig a job?  DO I HAVE THAT KIND OF POWAH!!!!  Lol.

If your only point is "Fish doesn't know QB's because he got Wolford wrong", well.....ok, I guess, if by being wrong I was like-minded to every single NFL GM and Wolford is such a good prospect that he proves himself in the AAF, gets invited to camp, and makes an NFL Roster.....ok, then I would be wrong.

I don't quite think we're there yet, mate.  And if we do get there, A. good for Wolford, cool story.  And B. I guess I would, in fact, be as wrong as all the NFL GM's were.  Boo on me.  

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  He has almost nothing to do with this, other than being the particular name you chose to sh*t on in August. 

I agree you probably shouldn't give up on a season before it starts, but this GM did.  Two years in a row.  Purposely propping up Bridgewater served no purpose.  At best we'd just lose the 3rd.  What if he plays well?  You think he is going to sign a contract to be our #2 QB?  Why?  Because we will pay him more than some starters?  Because we will have to if we want to keep him.  Do you think this team was going on a playoff run with him? 

I'm not going to re-litigate the Trade Bridge/Keep Bridge debate.  I've said my peace on that above, Darnold played very well and proved my early doubt in starting him right off wrong.  McCown was useless other than supposedly holding Darnokld dick on the sidelines, so I was quite right on him, for $10 mil he shoulda been a coach, not a QB. 

We'll never know how alt. history would have played out, but I'd rather today have Darnold/Bridgewater/Webb than Darnold/....../Wolford.

You are, of course, free to disagree, but it's a silly debate at this point.  

[#27TheDominator]

Been a silly debate for months.  

I have always hated you, but I don't anymore.  That has no bearing on the roster or QB discussion. It is only because I hated your old eyeball avatar.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Been a silly debate for months.  

I have always hated you, but I don't anymore.

At first I was like:

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  That has no bearing on the roster or QB discussion. It is only because I hated your old eyeball avatar.

Then I was like:  

[NoBowles]

Wow, a lot of time being put in on backup QBs in the arena football league 

[jgb]

8 hours ago, slats said:

At the time of the trade, people were talking about Bridgewater as a franchise QB. A year later, and I think it's questionable whether or not he gets an offer to more than just compete for a starting job. I'm curious to see what his next contract looks like and who it's with. Last year, the trade was discussed as a bird in the hand vs. the potential comp pick they might get in 2020. That pick being a third-rounder being bandied about. Instead, I don't expect him to garner a deal that registers above the fifth round comp pick level. 

I was very vocally in favor of the trade and am glad the Jets have that extra, albeit very late, third rounder this year. Especially, as you say, with Darnold looking good and the Jets missing their second-round pick this year because of him. 

It will be interesting indeed. I hope he does get a starter’s shot. If he lands as a backup, would’ve been nice to have him as our backup. Who knows... maybe that’s exactly what will happen.

[jetstream23]

[IndianaJet]

Imagine the wrath on this board if Macc had traded a 3rd round pick for back up QB who was gone after one year.

I get it....NO had Superbowl aspirations at the beginning of the year and wanted a good insurance policy for Brees, just in case, so it may still have been worth it to them.

[MDL_JET]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:57 AM, jgb said:

Still say mistake to trade bridge although darnold looks good so no harm no foul 

Nah. I think it was the right choice. I guess at the time it was risky not knowing we have in Darnold. But they believed in him and getting back a 3rd is too good an offer to pass up for a guy on a one year deal. Especially seeing Flacco being traded for a 4th. 

[#27TheDominator]

If he wants a shorter deal to increase his value, I am betting on two years.  There are some banking on the next CBA causing an explosion in salaries.  That is why Cousins deal was 3 years.  That is the proper length for Bridgewater.  If he shows he is a viable starter, he could really cash in. 

18 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Wow, a lot of time being put in on backup QBs in the arena football league 

This league looks like a legit minor league.  NFL coaches, and the rule changes aren't so different with the same field.  Makes it much easier to project than Canada with the bigger field and running men in motion or Arena ball with 2 way players, and 8 men on a hockey rink or basketball court.  It will be interesting if this ever gets allocated players like NFL Europe did.  Might be the perfect place to work on developing pro-style players, particularly on the offensive line.  

[jgb]

44 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Nah. I think it was the right choice. I guess at the time it was risky not knowing we have in Darnold. But they believed in him and getting back a 3rd is too good an offer to pass up for a guy on a one year deal. Especially seeing Flacco being traded for a 4th. 

Fair point although if Flacco was making $5 mill he would’ve gone for much more than a 4th