Mack traded to Bears

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

It worked w/ Jimmy Johnson (he won 2 Superbowls and Switzer won a 3rd with his players).  Who knows?  In time, we may look back on this trade and feel like Gruden was the big winner.  

[CrazyCarl40]

40 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

What good does bitching about the past do?

Moving forward, the Jets need to build up the offense around Darnold. Not send two 1st round picks+ to the Raiders for a $25 million a year edgerusher.

Never said they should acquire Mack. Just saying they wouldn’t need to even consider it if they had three mildly successful offseasons instead of dumpster fires. 

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Wow, that’s a lot. This should be a laughable amount to surrender on paper.

If we use our next 2 first round picks on a guard and a TE (or another DE/DT/MLB), and trying again to sign Suh and meh WRs at $14m apiece, and extending Kearse at $10m per, many will come back to rethink their current elation. 

Kearse isn’t getting 10mm. 

People were calling him a jag after she,don trade. 

[Lith]

11 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It worked w/ Jimmy Johnson (he won 2 Superbowls and Switzer won a 3rd with his players).  Who knows?  In time, we may look back on this trade and feel like Gruden was the big winner.  

Agree.  None of us know how this will work out in the long run. 

But this is a Raider team that was 12-4 in 2016 -- not quite sure what went arong last year.  They are now considerably worse, with a good young QB, solid OL and some decent weapons.  It may work out in the end, but it does not make sense to me for this team, right now.

[SR24]

Would LOVE to know what Mac offered

[Jetster]

Jets lost out because they're in the AFC. Gruden knows Darnold is a stud, and the Raiders fans watching the Jets over the next 5 years succeeding would not play well with their fans. 

[kelly]

No Khalil Mack trade not a loss..           https://nflspinzone.com/2018/09/01/new-york-jets-no-khalil-mack-trade-not-loss/ 

[C Mart]

Chris Mortensen‏  @mortreport

Aaron Rodgers may ask for another raise

[derp]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

That is the issue maybe one good player comes free in fa a year for the oline and then 20 teams make offers on him.  We did not get norwell no reason to believe we are going to get other difference makers.  Even whitworth who turned out good is still and old player when he was picked up.

Jets will have cap space and maybe more appeal (Darnold) to go after those guys going forward.

That said, your point is well taken.

[flgreen]

For the Jets to make this happen they probably would have had to give up 2 1's and 2 3's.  go into next year's draft with no picks until the 4th round, and no first in 2020.  All that for 10-11 sacks, and Darnold running for his life.

That would have just been stupid.

 

[Copernicus]

13 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Jets lost out because they're in the AFC. Gruden knows Darnold is a stud, and the Raiders fans watching the Jets over the next 5 years succeeding would not play well with their fans. 

Excellent point. 

[Vader]

2 hours ago, flgreen said:

WOW

Between the picks, a good player, and probably $140,00,000 over 6 years.  I'm glad they passed on a guy who's peak is the next 2-3 years.  Just when the Jets, and Darnold, are getting serious about a run, he'll be declining, and they'll still be paying him $25,000,000 a year.

Glad they passed.  Get an edge rusher 1st round next year, rest of draft and $90,000,000 FA money, OL and weapons. 

problem is this is so easily said, but not easily done. and if you miss on that pick, you are out not just that pick but whatever other resources you invest in getting the elite pass rusher position filled, which everyone agrees is likely another first rounder.

So there’s the two firsts. And it comes down to luck.

You pay the piper to eliminate the risk and volatility of drafting pass rushers. bc with drafting, no matter how good the prospect, there is no such thing as a can’t miss. failure is always staring back at you. 

[Vader]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jets fans "We have a gaziilon dollars in cap space so we can solve our rush and ol problems next year!"

Best edge rusher in football comes available, "We can't use the cap space on him!"

I know that I would NEVER think about trading Lee and Adams for mack, those are the quality of our last two 1st round picks before darnold.

This is classic a bird in the hand (in this case one of the top 3 D players in the nfl) vs 2 in the bush.

I can see why the Jets did not make this move but dingle balls GM had better make damn good use of the next two 1st rounders.

100% spot on

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jets fans "We have a gaziilon dollars in cap space so we can solve our rush and ol problems next year!"

Best edge rusher in football comes available, "We can't use the cap space on him!"

I know that I would NEVER think about trading Lee and Adams for mack, those are the quality of our last two 1st round picks before darnold.

This is classic a bird in the hand (in this case one of the top 3 D players in the nfl) vs 2 in the bush.

I can see why the Jets did not make this move but dingle balls GM had better make damn good use of the next two 1st rounders.

3 things:

1) Mack wasn't a free agent. 

2) Was there some kind of quote coming from Macc about not wanting to use cap space on Mack?

3) If rumors are to be believed, it sounded like the Jets were very aggressively trying to acquire Mack.

 

[Mike135]

Oakland must have realized our 1st rounders will be more like 2nd rounders moving forward considering we have Darnold now.  Can't blame 'em.

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

Umm ... where do you think Oakland found him?

Craiglist?

[bealeb319]

This trade doesn't make sense for the bears, wouldn't have made sense for us either. Mack is a great player and worthy of two first round picks however that can really set a franchise behind especially one which is building with multiple holes on top of the loss of picks you also have to sign a monster contract limiting what you can do in free agency. This is the type of trade a perennial contender should make not a young team hoping to be on the rise.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[Paradis]

Would have been nice for cheaper -- but then Mack should have never been on the block.

 

Oh well, in the long run, i'd rather spend to those picks on homegrown talent and use that cap to sign OTs/DEs/OLBs next year. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

This trade doesn't make sense for the bears, wouldn't have made sense for us either. Mack is a great player and worthy of two first round picks however that can really set a franchise behind especially one which is building with multiple holes on top of the loss of picks you also have to sign a monster contract limiting what you can do in free agency. This is the type of trade a perennial contender should make not a young team hoping to be on the rise.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

A perennial contender likely has a franchise QB making big money so while they'd want to trade for him they wouldn't be the ones capable of paying him. 

That's why the teams most interested were the Jets and bears. 

[HawkeyeJet]

2 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

And I say bulls%$t on that. This is a guy that would have exponentially made the Jets defense better. They have been looking for a pass rusher like this guy for decades. I would not have hesitated for a second to give two first rounders. The Jets have all kinds of cap space to sign him to a front loaded contract. In fact I SCREAM BULLS%$T on Maccagnan for not making the deal.

Congrats on your opinion.  Just because you scream your opinion doesn't make it more valid.  Usually the opposite.  Fun discussion though.

[Mike135]

5 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

This trade doesn't make sense for the bears, wouldn't have made sense for us either. Mack is a great player and worthy of two first round picks however that can really set a franchise behind especially one which is building with multiple holes on top of the loss of picks you also have to sign a monster contract limiting what you can do in free agency. This is the type of trade a perennial contender should make not a young team hoping to be on the rise.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

Gotta disagree.  In fact the only teams a signing like this made sense for were those with a young QB who's cheap for a few years.  Having that cheap QB is like a golden ticket to splurge on a flashy pickup.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, slats said:

I haven't been this happy since the Jets were outbid for Kirk Cousins' services. 

Yeah, I can't believe there were so many that were willing to give multiple first round picks for him.  Is he great player?  You bet.  But it is more preferable to draft a guy and pick up someone like a Fowler or Ray at a better price. 

[HawkeyeJet]

29 minutes ago, Vader said:

100% spot on

Is it?  I bet if you polled every fan on here and asked them, if the Raiders were willing to trade Mack for a 3rd round pick, so all it really took was the cap space to sign him, I don't think a single fan would say "nope, don't want that."

It's mortgaging all of the premium future assets you have, with 2 1st rd picks and all the cap space for one guy.  The Bears roster as it stands today pretty much better be able to contend as is, because they no longer have any room for major upgrades in the near future.

[varjet]

The Jets will have the cap money next year to set the market for OL and edge.

Who they sign will depend on where they pick.  

Mac should extend Kearse and Enunwa now-cut Skrine.  2019 is the first playoff year. 

Mack just bails out Bowles.  Bowles will be gone next year if Chris watches the team and thinks Pepper is right.  I think Pepper is right.  

[BroadwayRay]

I’d rather develop three guys who can rack up four sacks each during a season than spend all that capital on one guy who is going to give you 12 sacks. 

[Matt39]

On a positive note, there's a good chance we're in play for Bosa next year- who's going to be awesome.

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Matt39 said:

On a positive note, there's a good chance we're in play for Bosa next year- who's going to be awesome.

Is he going to be the #1 overall pick or something?  I don't think we're going to be that bad this year.  

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is he going to be the #1 overall pick or something?  I don't think we're going to be that bad this year.  

I'd say were in the mix. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I'd say were in the mix. 

You think we're that bad this year?  I think our defense should be improved.  It's hard to say about our offense considering a rookie QB (also one who is historically young for a starter) plus a crappy OL.  I guess it's possible we'll be a 4 win team but I was feeling more optimistic.  

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You think we're that bad this year?  I think our defense should be improved.  It's hard to say about our offense considering a rookie QB (also one who is historically young for a starter) plus a crappy OL.  I guess it's possible we'll be a 4 win team but I was feeling more optimistic.  

I think we'll definitely be better.  Unless Sam craps the bed.

We did seriously upgrade the secondary with Johnson, and our safeties aren't rookies anymore.

Upgraded Center too.

[Vader]

20 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Is it?  I bet if you polled every fan on here and asked them, if the Raiders were willing to trade Mack for a 3rd round pick, so all it really took was the cap space to sign him, I don't think a single fan would say "nope, don't want that."

It's mortgaging all of the premium future assets you have, with 2 1st rd picks and all the cap space for one guy.  The Bears roster as it stands today pretty much better be able to contend as is, because they no longer have any room for major upgrades in the near future.

We clearly disagree on the actual (as opposed to virtual) value of draft picks, as well as on the real risk and volatility involved with the game of chance that is the draft. 

You would think that Jets fans would be conditioned not to overvalue draft picks but I think what has happened is that the on-the-field product has suffered so much that psychologically, many fans are now MORE invested in the hypothetical, speculative and virtual nature of the draft and draft process than the actual product. It’s the only place we can be competitive - in the virtual world of draft picks and evaluation and process and building.

The actual product matters. There’s no winter to squirrel away draft picks for. 

Anyone who says “just draft a pass rusher next year” needs to look at the history of pass rushers drafted and the hit rate.

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You think we're that bad this year?  I think our defense should be improved.  It's hard to say about our offense considering a rookie QB (also one who is historically young for a starter) plus a crappy OL.  I guess it's possible we'll be a 4 win team but I was feeling more optimistic.  

I think the Jets are a bottom 6 team in the league, which puts you in the mix. Unless Darnold is like Andrew Luck immediately, expect a long year. The defense is going to be brutal.

[HawkeyeJet]

1 minute ago, Vader said:

We clearly disagree on the actual (as opposed to virtual) value of draft picks, as well as on the real risk and volatility involved with the game of chance that is the draft. 

You would think that Jets fans would be conditioned not to overvalue draft picks but I think what has happened is that the on-the-field product has suffered so much that psychologically, many fans are now MORE invested in the hypothetical, speculative and virtual nature of the draft and draft process than the actual product. It’s the only place we can be competitive - in the virtual world of draft picks and evaluation and process and building.

The actual product matters. There’s no winter to squirrel away draft picks for. 

Anyone who says “just draft a pass rusher next year” needs to look at the history of pass rushers drafted and the hit rate.

The thing you seem to be ignoring, or can't grasp, is the Jets don't just need a good pass rusher to be a contender.  They have other holes to fill as well.  If they traded 2 first round picks and ate up a huge portion of their cap space, where do you envision them filling the other holes?

Would Mack make the Jets better?  Sure.  He'd make them better.  He'd make just about any team better.  Would giving up all that set them up for sustained success over the next 5 years?  That's very debatable.

[nycdan]

Assuming we finish at 6-10 or 7-9, we should probably pick in the 6-12 range.  There are at least five, maybe more, DL who look really good so far but Nick Bosa and Ed Oliver (DT) seem to be the top two and will both undoubtedly go in the top 5 picks.  Still, there will be great prospects later on in the top-10 just because it's so deep.  Clelin Ferrell is one to keep an eye on as a 3-4 OLB.  And probably Raekwon Davis.  DL guys will get taken in the 6-12 range that would be top-3 in almost any other draft.

Then there's Trey Adams at OT.  Coming off an ACL last season which might drop him a little but he has the look of an elite prospect.  One other OT prospect that might be worthy as of this early point is Greg Little.  If one of those guys is wort the pick we are drafting at, it will be hard to pass on them.

So far those are the guys to watch for me.

Bottom line, given that some number of QB, DB and WR prospects will go top-10 as well, there will be a choice of really good prospects at DL or OL as low down at the 12th pick at least.

 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

31 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

This trade doesn't make sense for the bears, wouldn't have made sense for us either. Mack is a great player and worthy of two first round picks however that can really set a franchise behind especially one which is building with multiple holes on top of the loss of picks you also have to sign a monster contract limiting what you can do in free agency. This is the type of trade a perennial contender should make not a young team hoping to be on the rise.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

What exactly do the Bears do in FA that this deal will limit? All they do is overpay mediocre players. Therefore they should be honored with the ability to overpay a top 10 player. What exactly do the Bears do in the draft now? Draft a bunch of scrubs who bust or are average starters. 

Bears invested alot this season offensively in sign Robinson, Gabriel and Burton to help out Trubisky. They also have White who's healthy. Time to focus on defense to try to stop Cousins and Rodgers.