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Mack traded to Bears

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A couple of things:

- Congrats to CHI for getting Mack.  With Vic Fangio as their DC and Mack, 
Leonard Floyd & Roquan Smith they could really be a terror defensively.
That type of move says we're ready to win now, but are they?  Has Trubisky
proven he's a franchise QB after being a starter for ONE year at NC and
12 games in the pros:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3039707/mitchell-trubisky

- Maccagnan should've researched what it would take but he did the right
thing in not pulling the trigger.  We aren't ready to win now and can't
afford to give up multiple #1's at this point of our development

- It could get ugly real quick in OAK.  Gruden has too much control and his
mindset seems to be stuck back in 2003 with some of the moves he's made
 

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1 minute ago, rldev said:

If this defense is going to be as brutal as you claim, no way am I handing Bowles and Kacey another 2 first round picks to add to this defense. There is no excuse for this defense not to be a top 20 at minimum. If our coaching is so bad, why does everyone believe that one single player will transform it into a top 5 defense?

Every year everyone bitches about not investing in the offense. We finally invest in a QB that seems worthy who needs help. 

a player like Mack is literally the only single player that can transform it - because of the pieces in place in the secondary. and it doesn’t have to be top 5.

the problem with the defense is that no secondary can keep coverage for more than a few seconds before something shakes open. At that point, the QB will either be sacked, pressured or make a pass.

Pass rush and coverage have a synergy.  

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

No, I was around, I just don't focus on stuff like that. 

 

Allen has ability. It's alll good

Hands down 2018 Rookie of the Year, but all that matters is he goes 0-2 vs the Jets. What is this thread about again?

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1 minute ago, Vader said:

a player like Mack is literally the only single player that can transform it - because of the pieces in place in the secondary. and it doesn’t have to be top 5.

the problem with the defense is that no secondary can keep coverage for more than a few seconds before something shakes open. At that point, the QB will either be sacked, pressured or make a pass.

Pass rush and coverage have a synergy.  

If Mack is that impactful, why was the Raiders pass D so bad in 2017?

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3 minutes ago, KRL said:

A couple of things:

- Congrats to CHI for getting Mack.  With Vic Fangio as their DC and Mack, 
Leonard Floyd & Roquan Smith they could really be a terror defensively.
That type of move says we're ready to win now, but are they?  Has Trubisky
proven he's a franchise QB after being a starter for ONE year at NC and
12 games in the pros:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3039707/mitchell-trubisky

- Maccagnan should've researched what it would take but he did the right
thing in not pulling the trigger.  We aren't ready to win now and can't
afford to give up multiple #1's at this point of our development

- It could get ugly real quick in OAK.  Gruden has too much control and his
mindset seems to be stuck back in 2003 with some of the moves he's made
 

I've read that part of the reason for the trade is that Mack never came in to meet the new staff 

If that's true that's pretty amazing to think about 

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3 minutes ago, KRL said:

A couple of things:

- Congrats to CHI for getting Mack.  With Vic Fangio as their DC and Mack, 
Leonard Floyd & Roquan Smith they could really be a terror defensively.
That type of move says we're ready to win now, but are they?  Has Trubisky
proven he's a franchise QB after being a starter for ONE year at NC and
12 games in the pros:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3039707/mitchell-trubisky

- Maccagnan should've researched what it would take but he did the right
thing in not pulling the trigger.  We aren't ready to win now and can't
afford to give up multiple #1's at this point of our development

- It could get ugly real quick in OAK.  Gruden has too much control and his
mindset seems to be stuck back in 2003 with some of the moves he's made
 

Can't judge Trubisky from last year but this years can't make any excuses with the addition of Gabriel, Burton and Robinson.  

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3 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Hands down 2018 Rookie of the Year, but all that matters is he goes 0-2 vs the Jets. What is this thread about again?

Almost no chance that this happens, but cool 

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7 minutes ago, Vader said:

a player like Mack is literally the only single player that can transform it - because of the pieces in place in the secondary. and it doesn’t have to be top 5.

the problem with the defense is that no secondary can keep coverage for more than a few seconds before something shakes open. At that point, the QB will either be sacked, pressured or make a pass.

Pass rush and coverage have a synergy.  

No. The problem with this defense is just as Pepper Johnson claims. It's a terribly coached unit. You know, I know it, everyone knows it. 

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15 minutes ago, rldev said:

If this defense is going to be as brutal as you claim, no way am I handing Bowles and Kacey another 2 first round picks to add to this defense. There is no excuse for this defense not to be a top 20 at minimum. If our coaching is so bad, why does everyone believe that one single player will transform it into a top 5 defense?

Every year everyone bitches about not investing in the offense. We finally invest in a QB that seems worthy who needs help. 

Don’t disagree. But they’ve ignored the pass rush as much as the offense. It would depend who’s available anyways. 

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8 minutes ago, flgreen said:

If Mack is that impactful, why was the Raiders pass D so bad in 2017?

the secondary was horrible.

like i said the defense is made of different synergies that need to exist. Having either a pass rush (oakland) or a secondary (nyj) in isolation will never work.

i would never advocate trading for mack or fowler if i didn’t think the secondary was at least good enough to create that synergy.

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1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Don’t disagree. But they’ve ignored the pass rush as much as the offense. It would depend who’s available anyways. 

I agree and understand completely. But I'm not too keen on handing Bowles anything else at this point, unless it comes cheap. This guy has been given enough on defense. Ask yourself honestly, if Bill Belichick or say Wade Phillips coached this defense, would it be significantly better? The answer is yes. Penalties, no pressure and out of position players are the hallmark of the Todd Bowles/Kacey Rogers defense.

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5 minutes ago, rldev said:

No. The problem with this defense is just as Pepper Johnson claims. It's a terribly coached unit. You know, I know it, everyone knows it. 

what Pepper said was that the coaches do not understand that there is a synergy that exists between a pass rush and coverage. The do not and can not function in isolation.

that is exactly what i am addressing.

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49 minutes ago, flgreen said:

If Mack is that impactful, why was the Raiders pass D so bad in 2017?

Easy their secondary wasn't that good, and they couldn't generate a pass rush from the interior.

Not to mention their DC wasn't very good . ( For all purpose Jack Delrio was the DC) A lot of blown coverages that you shouldn't see from a professional defense.   

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2 minutes ago, Vader said:

what Pepper said was that the coaches do not understand that there is a synergy that exists between a pass rush and coverage. The do not and can not function in isolation.

that is exactly what i am addressing.

Not really, you are trying to address it and assuming they would use Mack properly.

Sorry but I have no faith in Kacey the Clown.

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2 minutes ago, rldev said:

Not really, you are trying to address it and assuming they would use Mack properly.

Sorry but I have no faith in Kacey the Clown.

tbh my thinking was mack was such a talent that coaching could not believably eff this up

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It would have arguably been a worthwhile move to the Jets under a certain set of circumstances, most notably the one where only up to ONE first round pick was used to acquire him, probably their 2020 one. Otherwise this team can't afford to mortgage their future for one player, not at this time.

They need to support Sam, and while there are few edge rushers near the caliber of Mack there will be other options for our problem there. Worth an effort but they had to set their price. Chicago outbid them, oh well, let's move on. Maybe they can throw a mid-round pick for Fowler or something, could be worth it thanks to the additional draft pick the Jets just acquired.

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2 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

The Jets weren't outbid for Kirk Cousins.  That's the sad part.

Why is that sad?  Because of that the Jets got Darnold

Guy didn't want to live around NYC.  Lots of folks don't

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Just now, flgreen said:

Why is that sad?  Because of that the Jets got Darnold

Guy didn't want to live around NYC.  Lots of folks don't

yeah bergen county is the worst….

he could have lived in gloucester county if he likes farms and never stepped over the hudson into the city.

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4 hours ago, Butterfield said:

This will end up being a good move for the Bears.  The Raiders are going to be bad for a while.  

Raiders will win more games in 2018 than the Jets.  Only position you might say the Jets are better than the  Raiders is in the secondary.( will that be the case by the start of the season- With the money Raiders saved trading Mack I expect CB B Breeland to sign with the Raiders. ( had him in twice already)    Also even without K Mack , the  Raiders are going to generate a pass rush( pass rush will always help a secondary out.  See the Jet's  secondary all preseason was exposed bigtime without any pressure.

Also Paul Guenther ( Raiders DC). Scheme is so good on defense that the Raiders defense will be better than the Jets this year. 

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22 minutes ago, Vader said:

tbh my thinking was mack was such a talent that coaching could not believably eff this up

At this point I honestly believe whoever we throw to them will never be as good as they could or should be. I just have no faith in the defensive scheme. I hope something changes this year.

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Just now, Raideraholic said:

Raiders will win more games in 2018 than the Jets.  Only position you might say the Jets are better than the  Raiders is in the secondary.( will that be the case by the start of the season- With the money Raiders saved trading Mack I expect CB B Breeland to sign with the Raiders. ( had him in twice already)    Also even without K Mack , the  Raiders are going to generate a pass rush( pass rush will always help a secondary out.  See the Jet's  secondary all preseason was exposed bigtime without any pressure.

If they are better, it will be marginal. Carr doesn't strike me as a guy who wants to put in the work to be great.

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4 minutes ago, Vader said:

yeah bergen county is the worst….

he could have lived in gloucester county if he likes farms and never stepped over the hudson into the city.

Lived in Bergan county most of my life.  Couldn't get me back with a gun.  LOL

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33 minutes ago, KRL said:

mindset seems to be stuck back in 2003 with some of the moves he's made

Funny how Gruden wins his Super Bowl with the best defense in football built up by Tony Dungy, then gets his next job, and instantly alienated arguably the best defensive player in football then trading him.  This just goes to show like in 2003 Gruden is super overrated as a HC, and Giganticly incompetent as a GM now, granted the 2 1st rounders help, but you will never replace Mack on a win now team, it would be a lot different if he inherited a team he needed to rebuild, and made this deal, but to be in the win now mode, and get rid of Mack to another team that thinks they are in win now mode is silliness.

I still haven’t seen the deal officially reported as finalized anywhere, so you know if the deal is contingent on Mack signing?

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Watch us pair our 2019 1st rounder with our 2020 1st rounder to move up for an edge rusher

Watch us draft a WR and sign oline help and a TE and make a deep run in the playoffs 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Watch us pair our 2019 1st rounder with our 2020 1st rounder to move up for an edge rusher

Dont rule it out. Jets might spend big $$ in free agency to help the offense and then load up on the defense in the draft.

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8 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Raiders will win more games in 2018 than the Jets.  Only position you might say the Jets are better than the  Raiders is in the secondary.( will that be the case by the start of the season- With the money Raiders saved trading Mack I expect CB B Breeland to sign with the Raiders. ( had him in twice already)    Also even without K Mack , the  Raiders are going to generate a pass rush( pass rush will always help a secondary out.  See the Jet's  secondary all preseason was exposed bigtime without any pressure.

Also Paul Guenther ( Raiders DC). Scheme is so good on defense that the Raiders defense will be better than the Jets this year. 

Breeland isn't healthy. That must be some infection. Probably not in great shape either 

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40 minutes ago, Vader said:

a player like Mack is literally the only single player that can transform it - because of the pieces in place in the secondary. and it doesn’t have to be top 5.

the problem with the defense is that no secondary can keep coverage for more than a few seconds before something shakes open. At that point, the QB will either be sacked, pressured or make a pass.

Pass rush and coverage have a synergy.  

Yeah I’m against giving up what the Bears gave up, but if the Jets did it I’d still have a hard time not being excited about getting Mack, everyone who praises Leo including the media rave about how Leo had 27 or so QB pressures only 1 sack don’t worry the sacks will come, then you go look at Mack who had 75 QB pressures all by himself yes thats right 75!  The Bears as a team had 100 QB pressures all of last year, only 25 more then Mack by himself think about that.

IDK maybe 2 1st rounders, and paying him isn’t that crazy the more I look the more I start to become torn on the price tag, should Mack win another defensive player of the year award, and Darnold is the real deal the Jets are a playoff team that year, and every year that those 2 are playing at a high level.

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