Todd Bowles never had a prayer/chance throughout his first 3 years:

[MaxAF]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

His homework?  He just listed a bunch of players.  12 players that Bowles was saddled with that we can't blame on Macc.  Unfortunately, Forte, Spiller, Clady, Revis, Cromartie, and Bruce Carter weren't on the team when this FO took over.  Harris, and Willie Colon were free agents that they re-signed.  Povero Todd Bowles, forced to coach the players he and the GM selected!  Povero Mike Maccagnan.  Saddled with the lousy players on the free agent market he was forced to sign!

His list of "mind-numbing" never was players includes Coples who this group exercised the 5th year option on and Wesley Johnson who they handed the 2017 starting C job to, with only Jonotthan Harrison as competition.  Research! 

It's our fault?  I want playoffs immediately and have no patience?  I didn't realize that I was the stupid **** that blew a huge amount of cap space on aging veterans in 2015.  Sorry.

Was actually referring more specifically to the coaches.

[MaxAF]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Is Tomshame behind the defense wins championships guy? 

Ip check 

Where is Tom Shane anyway? I heard he was hiking the Appalachian trail. Is that true?

[Hitman Harris]

2 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

IBTL

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Bugg said:

Also, how many sheet coaches continued to suck after 3 bad years. Do you have that data? The logic-"GREAT coach X sucked for 3 years, Todd Bowles sucked for 3 years, THEREFORE, Todd Bowles is going to be great". Kind of ignoring a  wealth of Abe Gibrons and Charlie Winners who continued to suck, dontcha think? 

You think his initial post was long?  Imagine the excuses for the hundreds of examples of coaches with the opposite results.  

[Defense Wins Championships]

3 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

That’s one thorough argument you made there.

A+

So in conclusion, you’re saying that he’s going to win us more games.

hope you’re right. As long as his players don’t give up on him, he’ll still be coaching next year and that’s ok with me.

https://www.newyorkjets.com/video/all-access-the-winning-locker-room-speech-at-detroit

Theses current players will not quit on this man. They compete hard under him. Very hard. 

12 out of 16 games the Jets either won last year (5), lost by 1 possession or less (7) and competed hard under Bowles throughout all 12;  and now they're ready and on the verge of breaking out. And last night was a sign of things to come. 

And yes. He's going to win a lot more games.

He now has a franchise caliber QB in Sam Darnold as the leader of his offense and can now build around his kid QB with A++ potential moving forward. A great QB can change a head coaches entire future while tapping into an HC's true potential. 

Yes. Bowles is going to win a ton of games behind a Franchise QB along with an Arizona like led Defense now that he's finally featuring a dynamic secondary and a tough front 7 with speed everywhere. 

His 2018 Jets team is now so much more talented than 2015's 10-6 team.

His 2018 Jets team also has a lot more overall team chemistry when in comparison to his 1st year of 2015.

And because of a lot more team chemistry and overall team talent (from top to bottom) our 2018's team under Bowles will become a much better team overall. 

One game or not last night was no fluke.

Todd Bowles has this team ready to play, ready to fight, ready to compete, ready to win and is his team is now super talented for the 1st time since his arrival. 

We will make the playoffs this year and Todd Bowles will be back for our foreseeable future; and rightfully so.

And this current team isn't even the finished product either.

We'll become even more talented and down right dangerous over the next two offseasons under coach Bowles and God forbid we land a Dante Fowler Jr. type of pass rusher and a top 3 offensive skilled player in Le'Veon Bell come free agency and our offense and defense both become unstoppable.  

This guy was forced to lose during his first 3 years during a complete rebuild. 

But throughout 2018 and our next two offseasons both Maccagnan and Bowles will now have a chance to SHOW OFF (and his critics are now petrified of the thought of him having a very good roster who can win). 

[pdxgreen]

I think Bowles is definitely a much better coach than people give him credit for.  His players always play tough for him.  He has a great defense scheme and is getting the right personnel to play in it.  When he had initial problems with his coaching staff he made changes.  And although it took him a while he got it done.  The only problem is when he makes those easily noticeable errors (play clock, etc) that drive Jets fan bonkers.  But I am willing to admit he is better than a lot of other coaches out there.  And he got wins out of a squad last year that really wasn't that talented.

[Larz]

Defense is Tomshame 

Nice try bub 

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

For every coach who sucked for 3 years and went on to become great there are 5 who never did. Having Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells & Bill Walsh on the list is a joke. Johnson improved every year and made playoffs year 3, Bill Parcells improved every year and made the playoffs year 2 & 3, Walsh did the same and won the damn superbowl year 3.

If you want to make a pro Bowles argument you might start with his accomplishments and strengths instead of excuses. 

Other than that, great thread.

Just 5?  I think there are probably plenty more.  In OP's defense, I don't think Bowles really had a chance to win (at least consistently) with his previous teams but that doesn't mean he's suddenly Bill Parcells.  I mean, in OP's opinion, is Hue Jackson Bill Parcells too? 

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

Hindsight is 20/20 but I'm an idiot for creating this thread. You all have the right to judge Bowles any which way possible so who am I to try and change popular belief. Carry on. 

I guess I've just been frustrated seeing players like Williams, Lee and Adams treated like busts and ppl acting as if Bowles first 3 years creates for his full potential. 

But it's now Football season and from here on out I'll just try and simply enjoy our 2018 year to the best of my ability beecause it's truly a waste of time arguing over every negative thought or remark. 

Bowles sucks. Maccagnan stinks. Williams is overrated. Sharron Lee is a bust. Jamal Adams is a negative locker room cancer. Our O-Line is a catastrophic type of category 5 disaster and our 2018 Jets have no chance to compete etc, etc. 

You guys win. I'm done. 

[shevys]

7 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Has a sh!t HC ever won it all with a talented roster??

If the Jets really are talented maybe Todd can be our Barry Switzer or Tom Flores.

Actually Flores was a very good coach, and a 2-time Super Bowl winning coach. 

[Rolloffjet]

TB needs one more piece for the defense to be special .A beast of a rushing out side LB 

Come on Mac,get TB that last piece———————-> Dante Fowler ?

[Larz]

6 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but I'm an idiot for creating this thread. You all have the right to judge Bowles any which way possible so who am I to try and change popular belief. Carry on. 

I guess I've just been frustrated seeing players like Williams, Lee and Adams treated like busts and ppl acting as if Bowles first 3 years creates for his full potential. 

But it's now Football season and from here on out I'll just try and simply enjoy our 2018 year to the best of my ability beecause it's truly a waste of time arguing over every negative thought or remark. 

Bowles sucks. Maccagnan stinks. Williams is overrated. Sharron Lee is a bust. Jamal Adams is a negative locker room cancer. Our O-Line is a catastrophic type of category 5 disaster and our 2018 Jets have no chance to compete etc, etc. 

You guys win. I'm done. 

So now what 

Some big reveal post where you claim that you proved that its ok for Tomshame to be negative because either way we just argue? 

 

[Scoop24]

11 hours ago, MaxAF said:

Where is Tom Shane anyway? I heard he was hiking the Appalachian trail. Is that true?

Jamal balled he gotta lay low . Until he gives up a catch or something so he can crack some more 40 time  jokes 

especially since the interception jokes are now useles

[jgb]

7 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but I'm an idiot for creating this thread. You all have the right to judge Bowles any which way possible so who am I to try and change popular belief. Carry on. 

I guess I've just been frustrated seeing players like Williams, Lee and Adams treated like busts and ppl acting as if Bowles first 3 years creates for his full potential. 

But it's now Football season and from here on out I'll just try and simply enjoy our 2018 year to the best of my ability beecause it's truly a waste of time arguing over every negative thought or remark. 

Bowles sucks. Maccagnan stinks. Williams is overrated. Sharron Lee is a bust. Jamal Adams is a negative locker room cancer. Our O-Line is a catastrophic type of category 5 disaster and our 2018 Jets have no chance to compete etc, etc. 

You guys win. I'm done. 

? here is an emoticon of a gay relationship because it is the only thing in the universe known to contain more drama than this post 

 

[Morrissey]

I'm sure this has already been brought up elsewhere, but what was with wasting all our time outs in the first half on Monday night? 

[ECURB]

Jets fans will always bitch and pick the opposite side... Nature of the beast.

I remember having to go through hell trying to convince half the board that Clemens was not a better QB than Pennington.

Bowles may or may not turn out to be a good coach. One thing for sure is we shouldn't read too much into the opinions on this board. If we did the team would be coached by Darrell Bevell with Greg McElroy at QB...

[Dunnie]

He is even keeled and doesn't lose his sh*t in public ... An amazing upgrade over the child clown he replaced

Watch the guy coach he is awful.
If you are going to take that tact I expect at least as long of  post saying whey mccagnan has to be immediately fired for saddling poor todd with no players despite handing him all the toys by investing totally on defense for years.
My opinion of bowles has not changed after one huge game.
 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[MaxAF]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm sure this has already been brought up elsewhere, but what was with wasting all our time outs in the first half on Monday night? 

It looked like Darnold was having trouble with his helmet communication. He kept looking at the coaches and pointing to his helmet.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

It looked like Darnold was having trouble with his helmet communication. He kept looking at the coaches and pointing to his helmet.

I think he was saying “do you not see what I see or are you effing brain dead?”

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

I think he was saying “do you not see what I see or are you effing brain dead?”

Jokes aside, @MaxAF is actually right.  Sam said after the game the headset kept cutting out.

[NewJackCity18]

While i agree with you that he gets far too much slack, he's also proven to be incompetent in some situational coaching moments

[GREENBEAN]

Nope.
It's not Mike Maccagnan's fault neither. He never had a chance to field a perennial powerhouse of a contending roster capable of winning either; it's called a complete team rebuild. 
Mike Maccagnan was hired in order to completely rebuild our roster throughout a thorough roster gut while consiting of roster turnover within the form of nothing but multiple roster purges (dating back since day one of his arrival). It's called a complete team rebuild (learn the definition). 
And coach Todd Bowles has been the one forced to coach under a complete team rebuild. 
And now Mike Maccagnan and Todd Bowles have landed their Franchise caliber signal caller in order to (actually) build/coach around our QB position (moving forward) along with now being positioned and projected to feature the NFL's second most amount of available salary cap space come 2019's offseason. 
Both of Mike Maccagnan and Todd Bowles deserve a (fair) chance to complete what they've started (moving forward). 
It's called perspective and I have no reason to ever apologize for having some. 

You are making some good points for why you would like to give Todd Bowles more time or why you support him moving forward but the tact is kinda dicky imo.

I personally don’t like Todd Bowles all that much but reserve the possibility that he is getting better. I just don’t know. I do like that he seemingly turned over the defensive play calling duties to the d coordinator. That is a good HC move. So there is potential.


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[Jet_Engine1]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:09 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

For all of those who continue to literally shove the "1st three years" of Todd Bowles down our throats?

I'll simply continue to emphasize the importance of...

Tom Landry: 9-28 after first 3 years (.243%).

Chuck Noll: 12-30 after first 3 years (.285%).

Weeb Ewbank: 13-22 after first 3 years (.371%)

Marv Levy: 19-29 after first 3 years (.395%).

Jimmy Johnson: 19-29 after first 3 years (.395%).

Dick Vermeil: 18-26 after first 3 years (.409%).

Bill Belichick: 20-28 after first 3 years (.416%).

Bill Walsh: 21-27 after first 3 years (.437%).

Mike Shanahan: 16-20 after first 3 years (.444%).

Bill Parcells: 22-25 after first 3 years (.468%).

Just to name a few. 

I'm sorry if that post above doesn't fit your agenda against Todd Bowles but you can not erase the history of the NFL regardless of how hard you try (perspective will always prevail). 

If it were up to a handful of Jet fan "geniuses" none of the (above) head coaches would've ever lived to see their 4th year (and beyond).

Which is absolutely hilarious to me; especially as a football fan who utilizes all of insight, knowledge, perspective and reality while judging an NFL head coach.  

And it's just weird to me how...

While criticizing the first 3 years of Todd Bowles you'll rarely see (if ever at all) any of these Todd Bowles sceptic's mentioning the less than ideal situations and circumstances in which he's literally been forced fed to coach under throughout his first 3 year(s). 

But don't worry, I'll point them out for you (since the pundits never will):

• Two career backups consisting of two losing JAG QB's in Fitzpatrick and McCown.

• Who've played for 15 different teams.

• And have ccombined for a (career) losing record of 72-120 and a combined career losing percentage of only .375%.

✓ With 0 playoff wins/zero postseason appearances. 

Yea, right, it's all "Todd Bowles' fault, right?

Laughable to say the least. 

And also no mention of the below?  

Aging and completely washed up players (all who are no longer in the league) in which Todd Bowles has been forced to coach such as...

Matt Forte.

C.J Spiller.

Eric Decker.

D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

Ryan Clady.

Nick Mangold.

Willie Colon .

David Harris.

Calvin Pace.

Bruce Carter.

Darrelle Revis.

Antonio Cromartie.

etc, etc, etc. 

Where oh where are they now? Out of the league due to no longer being good enough, no?

No mention of the above, no?

(and believe me; you can keep on going).  

And also no mention whatsoever about the likes of bust(s) and/or career nothing's in...

Dee Milliner.

Calvin Pryor. 

Quinton Coples.

Dexter Mcdougle.

Breno Giacomini.

Wesley Johnson.

etc, etc. 

Let me guess, all "Todd Bowles" fault as well? Despite all of them already being Jets before the arrival of Todd Bowles? Mind boggling. 

Where oh where are they, now?

I truly pitty those who feel, act and pretend as if Todd Bowles ever had a fighting chance to win throughout his first 3 years.

And i honestly feel ashamed for those who've acted and pretended as if Todd Bowles was ever given a "perennial powerhouse contende" of a roster (ever) being capable of "winning" on a consistent basis.

The false myth of Todd Bowles teams being "undisciplined". 

Contrary to popular belief but during his first two years (combined) of 2015-2016 our Jets were (by far) the least penalized team within the entire league. 

No mention, no?

It's just disheartening to see so many NYJ fans harp all over his first 3 years while pissing all over him despite refusing to ever acknowledge the less than ideal situations and circumstances in which he's literally been forced to coach under (dating back to day one of his arrival). 

And with that said I've just presented a much better case for Todd Bowles than any of you have ever presented against Bowles as a head coach.

And before mocking me as a poster or attacking my post above? I challenge anyone of you to thoroughly present a better case against Todd Bowles the head coach after only his first 3 years. Better yet? I dare you; and I'll completely destroy your case with facts (as I've done above). 

I wish this was longer. With more words. But only the best words.

[GREENBEAN]

I truly feel bad for those who feel and believe as if Bowles has ever been handed a roster (after only 3 years) capable of winning on a consistent basis as if he's ever featured a ' "perennial powerhouse of a contender".
I also laugh at those who've claimed he's "undisciplined" despite throughout his first two years of 2015/2016 we were by far the least penalized team within the entire league under his watch. 
Still waiting for the Todd Bowles sceptic's to provide and present a better case against Todd Bowles during his 1st three years, as I have in favor of him (with my original post). 
It's yet to happen and to be blunt; it can't. 

I also wonder how you will react if this one win euphoria gets crushed under a 6-10 season.
Monday night, while awesome and exciting, will most likely be an anomaly ya know.


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[JetFaninMI]

NO, NO, NO. Way too early to be writing this. Bowles has one win so far.1. Against the friggin Lions okay? The Lions who look like a team that is heading for a season of disfunction. One game in and they already have problems. No. Bowles has yet to show he has cured his flaws which have been well documented here. Wait until he is in a close game against a division opponent. Wait until he has proven something. I don't buy the bullsh*t that it's all the players fault. Especially since he was instrumental in drafting said players. It's one game guy's let's not get crazy.

[GreenFish]

The one thing that should be taking from Monday is that it can get a lot worse than Bowles. In his 3 years here, he has never lost the locker room and his team has always played hard for him. Mo being that one guy.

The Jets did the right thing keeping Macc and Bowles. 3 years is not enough time to know if a first time GM and a first time HC are going to be good in this league. This year will go a long way in showing us which way Bowles is trending. It’ll probably take at least another year to know if Macc is the guy.  Both of them not being so hands on is promising. Macc is delegated work to Hermindinger. And Bowles is backing off Kacy Rodgers. 

It’s a tough situation. We don’t know if Bowles is the next Marvin Lewis or the next BB. Most probably assume Marvin Lewis or worse, but only time will tell.

The culture in that locker room is clearly changing. You saw it on the sideline when we got punched in the mouth. Those guys were picking each other up. This year is a big year. Let it roll.

[GreenFish]

Art Modell:

We’ve had some success with Bill, including an 11-5 playoff team in 1994. However, I believe in order to get to the next level, a change in head coach is necessary.

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-02-15/sports/sp-36251_1_baltimore-colt

A FQB changes everything.